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0 Subject: Bush proposes a cornucopia of midnight rules

Posted by: Perm Dude
- [321041921] Wed, Nov 19, 2008, 23:13

Here's a sample:

-Truck drivers can stay on the road longer

-EPA doesn't have to regulate a rocket fuel contaminant in drinking water

-even more expansion of domestic surveillance

-the opening up of more parkland for oil leases (without the benefit of Park Service comment)

More here and here.

The Bush Administration long ago became that which it criticized. And it is going out the same way.

Politico asks if the rules are reversible (the answer: Maybe, but some might be hard to do).
Only the 50 most recent replies are currently shown. Click on this text to display hidden posts as well.
45Baldwin
      ID: 1211491020
      Sat, Dec 20, 2008, 15:56
I would also estimate a Taliban reconquest of Afghanistan within 6 months of his swearing in.
46Perm Dude
      ID: 811502010
      Sat, Dec 20, 2008, 16:05
The Taliban already control most of that country now (Thanks, George!). That's hardly a prediction.
47Baldwin
      ID: 1211491020
      Sat, Dec 20, 2008, 16:18
#46 As if anyone you would ever vote for wouldn't currently have the Taliban in total control.

The shamelessness of liberals...amazing.
48Perm Dude
      ID: 811502010
      Sat, Dec 20, 2008, 17:54
Until you vote you have no place to talk about who other people are voting for. You might talk about "support" or "campaign for" or any number of things, but you don't have a leg to stand on talking about the consequences of an actual vote.

As for support, I have been quite clear in supporting candidates who are in opposition to George Bush, who did a half-assed job in Afghanistan (as in virtually all aspects of his presidency) and it'll be up to Obama to clean it up. You can run from your support against Bush but you can't hide.
49Baldwin
      ID: 1211491020
      Sat, Dec 20, 2008, 17:57
Since you said that Afganistan was impossible, any success at all was doing the impossible. Somehow doing the impossible becomes 'half-assed ' when it suits your purpose to be illogical.
50Baldwin
      ID: 221172017
      Sat, Dec 20, 2008, 18:16
I strongly suggest Salman Rushdie avoid the Obamanation, lest he find a brand new interpretation of rendition.
51Tree
      ID: 1311551521
      Sat, Dec 20, 2008, 18:27
And I would also estimate about 50 Al Qeada training camps open up out in the open worldwide the day he is sworn in.

can you please continue to say really stupid things. it's entertaining.

then again, your boy Bush helped bring Al Queda into Iraq in spades, so you'll do anything to cover your own a$$ in regards to the man you love.
52Baldwin
      ID: 221172017
      Sat, Dec 20, 2008, 18:32
During Clinton's reign anyone who wanted to could go to a map and point out a freely functioning state approved terrorist training camp. You can't do that today or for @ another month. No, not even in Iraq. Especially not in Iraq.
53Baldwin
      ID: 221172017
      Tue, Dec 23, 2008, 15:58
It doesn't look like the drug dynasty president is going to pardon Ramos and Compean, big surprise. Bush let a ton of extra drugs and outlaws flow into the country by 'virtue' of the outrageous miscarriage of justice that he oversaw against Ramos and Compean. Border guards have given up the right [and obligation] of armed enforcement of the border ever since. For Illegals it's open season on border guards. May the zillions of illegals he let in all squat on Bush's ranch.
54Tree
      ID: 1311551521
      Tue, Dec 23, 2008, 23:26
ugh. we've been over that case a million times. they're criminals. they don't deserve a pardon.

and the statement "for illegals, it's open season on border guards," is, quite frankly, not relevant in this case.

however, if you want to transpose your words, feel free, because if they were pardoned, "for border guards, it's open season on illegals" would be quite appropriate.
55Perm Dude
      ID: 4211462314
      Tue, Dec 23, 2008, 23:45
Open season to turn your backs on the border guards and get shot, it seems.

As for Bush, this is a guy who let his state kill a retarded kid on death row. You really think he's going to pardon anyone for non-political reasons?
56Baldwin
      ID: 221172017
      Wed, Dec 24, 2008, 11:06
PD

He was shot in the groin. I will add you to the list of liberals who feel the groinal area is in the backside.
57Perm Dude
      ID: 281125249
      Wed, Dec 24, 2008, 11:18
He was shot at when his back was turned.

From the Sutton report:

As will be demonstrated by the summary below, the defendants were prosecuted because they had fired their weapons at a man who had attempted to surrender by holding his open hands in the air, at which time Agent Compean attempted to hit the man with the butt of Compeanï's shotgun, causing the man to run in fear of what the agents would do to him next. Although both agents saw that the man was not armed, the agents fired at least 15 rounds at him while he was running away from them, hitting him once.

Heroes to you, I suppose. They hit a Mexican in his ass with a shotgun, then fired away at him when he was running away.

Bush, in 2007, said he wouldn't pardon these guys. You seem to be taking Bush to task for not flip-flopping.
58Baldwin
      ID: 221172017
      Wed, Dec 24, 2008, 12:45
The doctor at the trial testified that Aldrete-Davila's wound was consistent with his reaching his left hand back toward the officers in a bladed motion that would be consistent with pointing a weapon at the officers.
...As Ramos and Compean testified. You are welcome to believe a man turning to point at you, who has a million in drugs at risk of seizure isn't planning on shooting you. I am glad you are not a border guard and you should be too, because you'd be a dead border guard sooner or later.

59Baldwin
      ID: 221172017
      Wed, Dec 24, 2008, 12:47
And Sutton is as corrupted as they come. He is the drug trade power elite point man. The Bush dynasty has him in their hip pocket. I wouldn't trust him ever.
60Perm Dude
      ID: 281125249
      Wed, Dec 24, 2008, 12:52
You are welcome to believe a man turning to point at you, who has a million in drugs at risk of seizure isn't planning on shooting you.

The timing is very inconvenient for you. They had no idea he had any drugs until after they shot 15 rounds at him.
61Tree
      ID: 1311551521
      Wed, Dec 24, 2008, 13:30
The doctor at the trial testified that Aldrete-Davila's wound was consistent with his reaching his left hand back toward the officers in a bladed motion that would be consistent with pointing a weapon at the officers.

it also sounds like the would is pretty consistent with running away from someone as fast as you can, arms pumping at your side, and turning around to see where the guys trying to murder you are...
62Baldwin
      ID: 221172017
      Wed, Dec 24, 2008, 13:57
After all, Sutton has already been exposed as an individual willing to use his political pull within the Bush administration to silence and retaliate against a DEA whistleblower who sought to expose the U.S. government’s complicity in mass murder in Juárez, Mexico, and its role in nearly causing the death of a DEA agent and his family in that same city — another obviously embarrassing political scandal for the Bush White House. - The Narcosphere, reporter Bill Conroy
Also reporting Sutton had a significant role in the AG firings, for those of you upset by that.

Covering for institutionalized sexual abuse of orphans and children in state custody...
"Attorney General Alberto Gonzales and U.S. Attorney Johnny Sutton, both already under siege for other matters, are now being accused of failing to prosecute officers of the Texas Youth Commission after a Texas Ranger investigation documented that guards and administrators were sexually abusing the institution's minor boy inmates," writes Corsi in a report for World Net Daily ."Among the charges in the Texas Ranger report were that administrators would rouse boys from their sleep for the purpose of conducting all-night sex parties."

A 2005 investigation led by Texas Ranger Brian Burzynski revealed that systematic abuse of minors was commonplace at West Texas State School in Pyote, Texas. Burzynski presented the findings of the investigation to both Gonzales and Sutton but was rebuffed, and even received a letter from Sutton's office that attempted to legitimize the sexual abuse of children, claiming that "under 18 U.S.C. Section 242," it would have to be demonstrated "that the boys subjected to sexual abuse sustained "bodily injury," states the letter from Bill Baumann, assistant U.S. attorney in Sutton's office.

Incredulously, Baumann's letter goes on to make the case that the minors consented to and even enjoyed the acts of pedophilia, therefore no further action was necessary.

U.S. Attorney General Johnny Sutton.
In September 2005, the U.S. Department of Justice Civil Rights Division also refused to follow up with a prosecution.

According to Corsi, officials implicated in the scandal were hired despite their known criminal backgrounds and were also retained even after it was discovered that they were using state computers to regularly visit pornography websites.

"It basically sounds as if you wouldn't get hired in one of these facilities unless you were a pedophile," Corsi told the Alex Jones Show.

"You've got a culture of pedophilia that is at the core of the Texas Youth Commission, and what that means is you won't get hired or you won't stay as an employee unless you're willing to participate in the boy rape that's going on or keep quiet about it." - INFOWARS
PDF of Texas Rangers' official report detailing these abuses included in that site.
At the conclusion of his testimony to the Texas legislature joint committee, Burzynski spoke personally, saying he wanted to "shed some light on the real reason why I am here."

"When I interviewed the victims in this case, I saw kids with fear in their eyes, kids who knew they were trapped in an institution where the system would not respond to their cries for help," he said.

He emphasized the personal commitment he felt to the victims in the case.

"Perhaps their family failed them, society failed them, TYC definitely failed them," he said. "But I promised each one of those victims that I would try to do everything in my power as a Texas Ranger to insure that justice would be served and that this didn't happen again. The Rangers would not fail them, and I made that perfectly clear to each one of them."

Burzynski said he "can only imagine what the students think about the Ranger who was unable to bring them justice. I feel like I played a very small part in chipping away at an iceberg."

At the conclusion, he received a standing ovation from the joint committee and audience in the room. - Texas Rangers' spokesman
I am sure PD is ok with this too. Border guard takes shot at tires of smugglers who tried to run him over. Sutton trying to give him ten years.
After a Texas deputy sheriff fired shots at the tires of a fleeing vehicle that had tried to run him down, he was arrested for injuring one of the passengers, a Mexican who was being illegally smuggled into the USA.

Edwards County Deputy Sheriff Guillermo F. Hernandez could get up to 10 years in prison for doing his thankless job after being prosecuted by the office of Bush-appointed US attorney Johnny Sutton...Prosecutors had offered Hernandez probation in exchange for a guilty plea, but he turned down the deal on the grounds that he had done absolutely nothing wrong. Unfortunately, trusting in the fairness of our moonbat-infested judicial system is hardly a safe bet — particularly in cases involving our invasion by Mexico, which has been sanctioned by treasonous authorities who unlike Hernandez really do belong in jail. - Moonbatter keeping track of moonbats like PD
Democrats should enjoy reading the last three paragraphs of this one. Huge.



63Baldwin
      ID: 221172017
      Wed, Dec 24, 2008, 13:59
Also once the jurors found out the stuff Sutton prevented them from hearing they also believe they voted in error due to not knowing the whole story.
64Tree
      ID: 1311551521
      Wed, Dec 24, 2008, 14:11
After a Texas deputy sheriff fired shots at the tires of a fleeing vehicle that had tried to run him down, he was arrested for injuring one of the passengers, a Mexican who was being illegally smuggled into the USA.

what's your point? that's exactly why cops are trained to NOT fire their weapons at those that are fleeing from them - because you can accidently shoot someone who is innocent.

it's one thing if the vehicle is coming toward the cop...but if it's driving away, you don't shoot. it's that simple.

as for the passenger who was shot - the fact he/she was an "illegal", is totally irrelevant, accept to those who find it ok to shoot them for no reason other than them being illegal.
65Baldwin
      ID: 221172017
      Wed, Dec 24, 2008, 15:10
For some reason the illegals never try and run down Tree with their cars.

From which we do not derive the lesson that border patrol officers should be pro-illegal immigration.
66Tree
      ID: 1311551521
      Wed, Dec 24, 2008, 16:25
For some reason the illegals never try and run down Tree with their cars.

which has what to do with anything??

a border patrol officer shot at a FLEEING individual. in the process, that officer shot someone who was not the intended target. that person who was shot was an "illegal", and it seems that you're condoning the shooting of that person based on that fact.

and where are YOUR people from, kemo sabe?
67Baldwin
      ID: 221172017
      Wed, Dec 24, 2008, 16:47
I believe both officers thot they were in danger of being shot. In fact I suspect Ramos, when he saw Compean on the ground, assumed he had been put there by the smuggler. I think the smuggler turned around to see if his gamble, based on long experience, that the agents would not shoot, was correct. I'm sure that thot crossed his mind bigtime. Unfortunately the agents took that movement to mean that the smuggler wasn't merely trying to run away but that he meant to save his load. Until a smuggler has his hands in cuffs he must be assumed to be a threat.

68Tree
      ID: 1311551521
      Wed, Dec 24, 2008, 17:05
Until a smuggler has his hands in cuffs he must be assumed to be a threat.

perhaps. but law enforcement officers are trained not to shoot at fleeing suspects in most cases. ..and if Ramos "assumed" Compean was on the ground via the smuggler, well, it's his own fault for acting rash.
69Baldwin
      ID: 221172017
      Wed, Dec 24, 2008, 17:37
You of course empathize with how an agent feels watching another agent struggle with a smuggler and then witnessing the subsequent 'officer down'.
70Tree
      ID: 1311551521
      Wed, Dec 24, 2008, 18:13
You of course empathize with how an agent feels watching another agent struggle with a smuggler and then witnessing the subsequent 'officer down'.

absolutely.

but when that agent shot that smuggler, the struggle was already over with.
71Baldwin
      ID: 221172017
      Wed, Dec 24, 2008, 18:16
As if to dig the knife in deeper, heir to a drug dynasty George Bush today pardoned or commuted the sentences of a meth dealer, a cocaine dealer and two marijuana dealers. I'd call that a no with a bold underlining to Ramos and Compean. Such evil in such high places.
72Tree
      ID: 1311551521
      Wed, Dec 24, 2008, 18:31
did those dealers shoot anyone who was fleeing from them?

73Baldwin
      ID: 221172017
      Wed, Dec 24, 2008, 18:40
Typical liberal. All criminals are sympathetic, all cops guilty.
74Baldwin
      ID: 221172017
      Wed, Dec 24, 2008, 18:48
The chilling effect on border guards. The government certainly doesn't have a war on rampant illegal immigration, that 'we' reserve for the war on border guards.
75Perm Dude
      ID: 1211122420
      Wed, Dec 24, 2008, 21:12
Also once the jurors found out the stuff Sutton prevented them from hearing they also believe they voted in error due to not knowing the whole story.

What a surprise--once the jury was tainted they voted to convict.

Stupid rules. Always getting in the way. One can't shoot spics anymore, the hope they turn out to be drug dealers.
76Tree
      ID: 1311551521
      Wed, Dec 24, 2008, 21:27
Typical liberal. All criminals are sympathetic, all cops guilty.

typical idiot. making statements that don't make sense.

we're talking about one specific example - we're talking about two border agents who shot a man who was fleeing from them.

there are plenty of examples like that though - cops committing crimes. However, there are plenty MORE examples of cops doing the right thing.

but in this case, the cops were wrong. period.

and no amount of FALSE generalizations by you can change that.

jerk.
77DWetzel
      ID: 33337117
      Wed, Dec 24, 2008, 22:18
Boy, they must have let Boldwin out of the halfway house early for Christmas.
78Tree
      ID: 1311551521
      Wed, Dec 24, 2008, 23:29
The chilling effect on border guards.

from your article:

Just then, another vehicle was spotted in Mexico, and a sniper began firing an automatic weapon at the U.S. agents.

But agents did not fire back.


then those agents should be relieved of duty for not defending themselves while being fired upon.

According to reports, additional heavily armed smugglers began scaling the border fence and tossing bundles of drugs from the Avalanche pickup truck into Mexico.

The agents refrained from discharging their weapons.


and these agents should be commended, even though they were just doing their job.

do you not see the difference in the case of Campeon and Ramos, and the two above cases??

in the first, two border agents fired on a man fleeing. they were in the wrong.

in the second, border agents didn't fire when fired upon. they too, were in the wrong.

in the third, border agents didn't fire when, well, people were not doing anything to deserve to be fired upon. they, were in the right.

never mind the fact that the examples in your linked article are dubious at best considering the source.

let's read more of your article:

When U.S. agents arrive on the scene, smugglers often pelt them with rocks, strike them with vehicles or fire weapons at them – and agents sometimes face penalties for firing back.

well, i disagree with that. if you're being assaulted, you should be able to defend yourself...so, let's read further....

In an incident similar to the Ramos and Compean case, one border patrol agent said he feared for his life after a group of illegal aliens began throwing rocks and concrete chunks at him in August at the San Ysidro border crossing. He fired his weapon and wounded one of the men in the buttocks.

ok, i've got no real issues with this, as anyone who has read my thoughts on the israeli-palestinian conflict would know...

Officials at the Mexican consulate in San Diego criticized the 10-year Border Patrol veteran and demanded the U.S. conduct a full investigation, the San Diego Union Tribune reported. Local police and the FBI investigated the agent.

ok. wait. STOP THE PRESSES. the Agent was investigated for firing his weapon..holy moley, that NEVER EVER EVER EVER happens. well, except for NEARLY EVERY TIME AN OFFICER DISCHARGES HIS WEAPON THEY'RE INVESTIGATED.

so, let's get this straight...the article says that agents *sometimes* "face penalties for firing back," yet, can't cite one example of an agent facing a penalty.

then, it tries to use a technique WND often does, but taking something common (such as being investigated for firing one's weapon), and placing it within part of a story so that someone who isn't smart enough to know better will be like "oh yea, see! he was defending himself, and he got...investigated!!! the gall! the unmitigated gall!"

keep trying baldwin, because sooner or later, you WILL prove the infinite monkey theorem.
79Baldwin
      ID: 221172017
      Thu, Dec 25, 2008, 00:39
The wicked witch of California, Nancy Pelosi can even see my point and call for Ramos and Compean to be pardoned and yet you don't understand how border guards now feel their jobs have been made impossible by the ruling in this case.

What is being confirmed to no one's surprise is that you live to post the opposite of whatever I post without exception.

The sky is up.

'No it isn't, there's sky in China.' - Tree

Saved you a whole post.
80DWetzel
      ID: 33337117
      Thu, Dec 25, 2008, 01:01
Go to bed.
81Tree
      ID: 1311551521
      Thu, Dec 25, 2008, 02:42
my concern isn't with Pelosi, Baldwin. unlike you, i think for myself, instead of being told how to think.

and you're right. i should agree with you. when you say "Tree says all cops are bad and all criminals are good," i should just shut up and agree with you - after all, it's what good little sheep like yourself do.

partisan hack.
82Baldwin
      ID: 221172017
      Thu, Dec 25, 2008, 06:01
partisan hack

Partisan hack would kick Bush's drugtrade facilitating 'my family financed Hitler' butt out the door? Interesting. Try not to depress the Yucatan national average intelligence too severely.
83walk
      ID: 139332920
      Sun, Jan 04, 2009, 18:01
NYT, Frank Rich: Forgotten, but not Gone

A great review of our worst president. So underqualified, so unaware.
84walk
      ID: 181472714
      Mon, Jan 05, 2009, 13:40
Fein & Nader: Bush/Cheney Deserve Censure

I concur.
85boikin
      ID: 532592112
      Mon, Jan 05, 2009, 13:46
Maybe in the process the congress can censure themselves for giving the president all this power. Like its immediate predecessors, the 110th Congress eagerly yielded its authorities - even the power of the purse - to the president. The Iraqi War Resolution, the $700 billion Troubled Asset Relief Act, the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act amendments, and the declination to hold Rove in contempt of Congress were emblematic.
86Boxman
      ID: 571114225
      Tue, Jan 06, 2009, 06:19
Bush to Create World's Largest Marine Protection Zone

The home of a giant land crab, a sunken island ringed by pink-colored coral, and equatorial waters teeming with sharks and other predators are being designated national marine monuments by President George W. Bush in the largest marine conservation effort in history.
87walk
      ID: 181472714
      Thu, Jan 15, 2009, 08:40
Politicon Review of Bush Presidency

There are about 8 of these reviews of Bush's presidency on Politico. I thought this one was most aligned with my opinion. You may feel others are more accurate.
88jedman
      ID: 552262217
      Thu, Jan 15, 2009, 16:46
True that Bush was President when the financial collapse happened, but to blame the whole thing on him I think is wrong. There is ample fault on both sides of the political aisle, so I don't think it will be fair to blame the whole thing on Bush or his policies, just as I don't think it's fair to blame it all on the Democrats and the mortgage fiasco. To me, it is just too complex and far reaching to put the blame on Bush alone.
89Baldwin
      ID: 00321417
      Thu, Jan 15, 2009, 18:34
The rankings on who got the most donations per year from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac would be a pretty good indicator of who was most to blame.
90walk
      ID: 181472714
      Fri, Jan 16, 2009, 09:58
Bush, alone is not to blame for the financial fiaso, but it occurred on his watch, and he has some not-so-little accountability. Ultimately, the CEO is responsible for the company's success or failure, and he is the CEO of America (which he has himself said). How does he not have at least some significant responsibility here? He had oversight responsibilities, the SEC, the Treasury, the lobbyists, etc. There's not a small role the government plays in helping to ensure the liquidity of our markets.
91boikin
      ID: 532592112
      Fri, Jan 16, 2009, 12:56
I disagree, the scope of world economics is beyond the ability really for anyone to understand. To blame Bush for not stopping this miss would be same as asking him to stop the sky from being blue. I think the lesson that is going to be taken away from all this, is how little control governments now have, when all the bailouts and stimulus packages barely effect the underlying elements of world economics, the lessons will be learned.
92Perm Dude
      ID: 590291514
      Fri, Jan 16, 2009, 13:03
I don't think anyone should hold Bush, or the GOP blameless, except to say that the GOP has had difficulty governing for some time.

And by "govern" I mean to do the work of running the government. Which at times is intended to be a safeguard for people.

I can see how you might come away with this problem with the idea of how little government can do. But that's because the government didn't actually do very much.
93boikin
      ID: 532592112
      Fri, Jan 16, 2009, 13:08
I can see how you might come away with this problem with the idea of how little government can do. But that's because the government didn't actually do very much.

i knew this before going into this that the government can do very little. Just as the Clinton administration was no more caused the dot com boom than was the reason behinds its bust.
94jedman
      Dude
      ID: 315192219
      Fri, Jan 16, 2009, 19:23
Bush is to blame, Frank and Dodd are to blame, the CEO's of the
big brokerage and mortgage houses are to blame, the list goes
on and on. I do wonder if it could have been stopped. When so
many fingers are in the pie, how do you stop all of them? There
was too much money being made and greed prevented anybody
from admitting that something was wrong. And those saying
something was wrong were the chicken littles and ignored, like
the guy who warned the SEC about Madoff for years and was
ignored. It's just all so sickening and I am really afraid that
things are going to get much worse. I just don't believe that
throwing all this money at the problem is going to fix it since
the money is going to the same guys that broke it.
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