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Subject: Golden Mean Fallacy
Posted by: Baldwin
- [3112216] Mon, Feb 02, 2009, 17:26
The fallacy of this age: "The Third Way"
Also known as the Argument to Moderation fallacy; the False Compromise; the Middle Ground Fallacy; the Gray FallacyArgument to moderation (Latin: argumentum ad temperantiam, also known as middle ground, false compromise, gray fallacy and the golden mean fallacy) is a logical fallacy which asserts that a compromise between two positions is correct. The middle ground is often invoked when there are sharply contrasting views that are deeply entrenched. While an outcome that accommodates both parties to some extent is more desirable than an outcome that pleases nobody, it is not necessarily correct.
The problem with the false compromise fallacy is that it implies that the positions being considered represent extremes of a continuum of opinions, and that such extremes are always wrong, and the middle ground always correct. This is not always the case. Sometimes only X or Y is acceptable, with no middle ground possible. Notable examples being:
"Jane says she is not pregnant, but Bill says that she is. Jane is therefore exactly one-half pregnant."
"Jane and Bill are married. Jane believes they should be monogamous, but Bill would like to have an extramarital affair. As a compromise, Bill offers to be faithful on weekdays and only spend weekends with his lover."
"Opinions on abortion range from banning it altogether to allowing it on demand; thus the correct view is restricted abortions."
"Partisan left and right are both wrong; therefore bipartisan marxism is preferable". |
| 1 | boikin
ID: 532592112
Mon, Feb 02, 2009, 17:39
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"Jane says she is not pregnant, but Bill says that she is. Jane is therefore exactly one-half pregnant." actually she is not one-half pregnant she has 50% chance of being pregnant.
it true you can not compromise on binary choices you are either for it or against it, but when you are making multiple choices you can still get a compromise:
"Jane and Bill are married. Jane believes they should be monogamous, but Bill would like to have an extramarital affair. As a compromise, Bill offers to be faithful on weekdays and only spend weekends with his lover."
so this becomes bill gets to have an affair, Jane gets really big diamond ring.
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| 2 | Jag
ID: 580233023
Mon, Feb 02, 2009, 17:43
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All Liberals should be shot.
No liberals should be shot.
Half of all Liberals should be shot.
Compromise we can live with!
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| 3 | weykool
ID: 2842717
Mon, Feb 02, 2009, 17:47
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Cars should drive on the right hand side.
Cars should drive on the left hand side.
Cars should be able to drive on either side of the road.
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| 4 | Perm Dude
ID: 54131123
Mon, Feb 02, 2009, 17:50
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it true you can not compromise on binary choices you are either for it or against it, but when you are making multiple choices you can still get a compromise
Exactly. For many wingers like Baldwin, it is always a binary choice.
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| 5 | weykool
ID: 2842717
Mon, Feb 02, 2009, 17:55
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For Left wingers like PD it is:
You come half way towards my position and we will be half as close as we used to be.
Followed by: As long as you have come that far dont be so infexible and come the rest of the way.
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| 6 | Jag
ID: 580233023
Mon, Feb 02, 2009, 17:58
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You come half way towards my position and we will be half as close as we used to be.
Followed by: As long as you have come that far dont be so infexible and come the rest of the way.
Think I heard President Pelosi use that same line.
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| 7 | Perm Dude
ID: 54131123
Mon, Feb 02, 2009, 18:11
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Example?
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| 8 | weykool
ID: 2842717
Mon, Feb 02, 2009, 18:30
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I always crack up when a liberal asks for an example or facts.....as if the facts are going to change their mind.
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| 9 | Perm Dude
ID: 54131123
Mon, Feb 02, 2009, 19:01
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I always crack up when a conservative so obviously avoids a question he can't answer, as if mere facts shouldn't get in the way of a good putdown.
You've got nothing.
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| 10 | Tree
ID: 1311551521
Mon, Feb 02, 2009, 19:35
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nice. 2 threads in, and Jag already makes a comment that is primarily to insult liberals.
this entire thread is a waste.
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| 11 | Jag
ID: 580233023
Mon, Feb 02, 2009, 22:49
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Tree, can't you lighten up? I don't actually believe Liberals should be shot, well, maybe, President Pelosi, but the rest of Liberals just need to be edumacated.
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| 12 | Perm Dude
ID: 54131123
Mon, Feb 02, 2009, 23:10
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Jag is obviously joking, of course--I have no problem with that, particular in the attempt to make a point. But "President Pelosi?" No wonder you guys are getting your butts handed to you at the voting booth.
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| 13 | Jag
ID: 580233023
Mon, Feb 02, 2009, 23:52
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Pelosi wrote the far-left pork package being mislabeled as stimulus. If Obama truly wanted to be bi-partisan, he should of constructed it himself with input from Republicans.
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| 14 | Perm Dude
ID: 13119223
Tue, Feb 03, 2009, 00:28
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He did. In fact, he increased tax cuts and made other changes as a result of meeting with them.
By reaching out to them in that way and being willing to make some changes, he was demonstrating that he was far more bi-partisan than Bush.
By voting the way they did, Republicans demonstrated that they don't give a crap about bi-partisanship. And since you continue to parrot the talking points put out by the GOP, you need to stop pretending it means anything to you.
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| 15 | Baldwin
ID: 3112216
Tue, Feb 03, 2009, 00:42
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Boikin #1
Notice in your solution that Jane gets zero of what she really needs.
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| 16 | Jag
ID: 580233023
Tue, Feb 03, 2009, 00:53
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Obama seems to be trying to reach out, but we will see if he stands up to the Pelosi, Reid and the Liberal machine. So much of this package is placating the Far-Left, for example, money for ACORN, a corrupt organization, bent on stealing elections. Giving money to ACORN is the equivilent of Bush passing a bill to give cash to the RNC.
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| 17 | Perm Dude
ID: 13119223
Tue, Feb 03, 2009, 01:13
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The RNC is stealing elections? Damn--finally some comfirmation!
A third of the stimulus bill is made up of tax breaks. So either Pelosi is now giving out tax breaks ($500/person or $1000/couple) or Obama put it in over her objection. You can't have it both ways.
Ultimately I think it'll be Obama pulling the Democrats of the House to the center. I've heard that Obama, in private meetings with Democrats in the House, has taken to gently reminding them that their increase in their majority is a result of Obama voters also pulling the lever on downballot races like the US House.
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| 18 | Baldwin
ID: 212502314
Mon, Mar 23, 2009, 16:55
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In case you actually are sucked in by Obama's talk of bi-partisanship, listen to his prophet, Saul Alinsky, explain the issue...Given that the enemy was to be portrayed as the very personification of evil, against whom any and all methods were fair game, Alinsky taught that an effective organizer should never give the appearance of being fully satisfied as a result of having resolved any particular conflict via compromise. Any compromise with the “devil” is, after all, by definition morally tainted and thus inadequate. Consequently, while the organizer may acknowledge that he is pleased by the compromise as a small step in the right direction, he must make it absolutely clear that there is still a long way to go, and that many grievances still remain unaddressed.
The ultimate goal, said Alinsky, is not to arrive at compromise or peaceful coexistence, but rather to “crush the opposition,” bit by bit.[57] “A People’s Organization is dedicated to eternal war,” said Alinsky.
“… A war is not an intellectual debate, and in the war against social evils there are no rules of fair play.… When you have war, it means that neither side can agree on anything…. In our war against the social menaces of mankind there can be no compromise. It is life or death.”
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| 19 | Perm Dude
ID: 17252315
Mon, Mar 23, 2009, 17:05
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Heh. More Alinsky, Less Obama. All the time.
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