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Subject: Israeli Tennis Player Denied Entry to the UAE.
Posted by: nerveclinic
- Leader [05047110] Wed, Feb 18, 2009, 00:44
I moved this discussion here because I didn't want it to infect my thread on moving to the other side of the planet which is intended as purely a discussion of my experiences living in Dubai.
Dubai holds a yearly professional tennis tournament which is starting this week.
Yesterday they denied a Visa to an Israeli tennis player who had won the right to be here.
I'm not writing this to express support for the actions, but Tree asked what I was hearing about it and I read a detailed explanation in a paper today so I am passing it on.
The official explanation is as follows...
"We do not wish to politicize sports, but we have to be sensitive to recent events in the region and not alienate or put at risk the players and the many tennis fans of different nationalities that we have here in the UAE," Tournament Director Salah Tahlak told media at a specially-convened press conference.
"Public sentiment remains high in the Middle East and it is believed that Ms. Peer's presence would have antagonized our fans who have watched live television coverage of recent attacks in Gaza," Tahlak's statement read.
"Ms. Peer personally witnessed protests against her at another tournament in New Zealand only a few weeks ago and concern was raised about her well being and her presence triggering similar protests. Given public sentiment, the entire tournament could have been boycotted by protesters," the statement added.
Tahlak further reiterated that the tournament is a longstanding and loyal supporter of women's tennis and the WTA Tour and that they respect the rules and regulations of the Tour. "The Tournament also respects Ms. Shahar Peer as a professional player on the Tour and understands her disappointment," he said.
Then I read further explanations in a more editorialized fashion in the paper this morning and I think these comments are more at the root of the cause.
I'll post a couple of the strongest points then link to the whole article.
1) The UAE has no diplomatic relations with Israel and even visitors to the country are advised not to get their passport stamped at Israeli immigration points if they want to avoid trouble getting in to the Emirates. This is nothing new.
This still probably would not of been a problem were it no for the events in Gaza the last few weeks...
2) the writer goes on to make this point... it the height of insensitivity that she is being portrayed as some kind of victim for being denied the opportunity to knock a few balls around barely weeks after doctors were being denied entry into Gaza to treat dying children.
3) Since its recognition by FIFA 11 years ago, the Palestinian national football team has had to play its ‘home’ matches on foreign soil, with countless examples of Gaza-based players being refused permission to leave the territory, never mind entry into a foreign country. Or even the West Bank. When the Palestinian team finally played against Jordan in Ramallah in October of last year, many Gaza-based and West Bank-based players were held up and humiliated at checkpoints before finally being allowed to play. Palestinian players based in neighboring Arab countries were refused entry visas.
One player, Roberto Bishara, a Palestinian who was living in Chile at the time, was insulted by an Israeli immigration official who commented “how can you be playing for the Palestinian national team when there is no Palestine?”.
So apparently Israel has practiced these forms of discrimination themselves many times, and shouldn't be so incredulous. Why the shock if they have done the same things?
The strongest argument I see above is which is worse denying entry of a tennis player? Or denying entry of doctors coming to save dieing people including women and children you have just bombed? Pretty strong ethical argument.
So there you have it.
I'll leave it to Tree to stop by and explain why none of these arguments make sense. Particularly point 2 and 3.
Here's the link
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| 1 | Tree
ID: 1311551521
Wed, Feb 18, 2009, 08:22
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NC - no prob in you moving it. i was just curious about what you were seeing about it from within the country. in no way did i want you to sully your thread. :o)
regarding point 2, it the height of insensitivity that she is being portrayed as some kind of victim for being denied the opportunity to knock a few balls around barely weeks after doctors were being denied entry into Gaza to treat dying children.
that's the height of absurdity, and apples to oranges. There's an AIDS epidemic in Africa, so let's cancel the Major League Baseball season. There are children starving in Asia, so we really should put the NFL season on hold.
3. and regarding point 3, not for nothing, but there is no nation of Palestine, so i fail to see an insult there. When i was in high school, i went to a primarily african-american high school, and i found it offensive that we were forced to stand and sing something called "The Black National Anthem" - to the best of my knowledge, there was no "Black Nation" in the midst of the United States.
even so, 2 and 3 are are both examples of NATIONAL conflicts within Israel, and are completely unrelated to an INTERNATIONAL incident with one country denying entry to the athlete's of another.
I'd love to see Dubai put their money where their mouth is - let's say Israel says to the Palestinians "go anywhere you would like - our borders are open for you to leave and a million Gaza residents went streaming towards Dubai - i wonder very seriously how open Dubai would make their borders for those refugees.
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| 2 | nerveclinic
Leader
ID: 05047110
Wed, Feb 18, 2009, 08:59
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"go anywhere you would like - our borders are open for you to leave and a million Gaza residents went streaming towards Dubai - i wonder very seriously how open Dubai would make their borders for those refugees.
Well a year ago they might have taken them gladly and put them to work as construction workers for $300 a month. Now I doubt the Palestinians would want to come, everyone seems to be leaving here in droves.
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| 3 | Tree
ID: 1311551521
Wed, Feb 18, 2009, 09:05
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The rest of the Arab would has never accepted the Palestinians into their own nations.
I just want to say that those nations have no obligation to do so, either. It would put serious economic, social, and political strains on their own societies.
but my point is that they don't back up their talk, and in a situation where they could help, they don't. it is in their own nation's best interest for the Palestinians to remain stuck in their awful situation.
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| 4 | Myboyjack
Dude
ID: 014826271
Wed, Feb 18, 2009, 09:29
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Trying to compare entry restriction in Gaza/Israel to entry into the UAE is really silly. There aren't on going hsotilities with bombs dropping and guns rattling in the UAE.
WTA should refuse to play in the UAE (right)
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| 5 | Pancho Villa
ID: 51546319
Wed, Feb 18, 2009, 10:25
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This could really backfire on Dubai.
They host an international golf tournament, men's tennis and high stakes horse racing event each year.
Dubai has created an image of political moderation which is desperately needed for their tourism industry, which I believe is a major component in their economy.
I don't see how type of alienation could viewed as anything but a negative.
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| 6 | boikin
ID: 532592112
Wed, Feb 18, 2009, 10:35
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I don't see how type of alienation could viewed as anything but a negative.
I am not sure that the negative publicity will actually hurt them, I do not see visitors to china going down because they denied visas during the Olympics.
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| 7 | WiddleAvi
ID: 361157177
Wed, Feb 18, 2009, 11:03
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and even visitors to the country are advised not to get their passport stamped at Israeli immigration points if they want to avoid trouble getting in to the Emirates. This is nothing new. How sad is it that as a Jew, and someone who had been to Israel, there are places that I will never be able to go to ?
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| 8 | Perm Dude
ID: 17133189
Wed, Feb 18, 2009, 11:09
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Apparently you can't go to a writer's festival in Dubai if you have a character who is gay.
I think a writer of Atwood's stature pulling out will, indeed, hurt them. Image is everything in the Middle East.
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| 9 | nerveclinic
Leader
ID: 05047110
Wed, Feb 18, 2009, 14:38
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How sad is it that as a Jew, and someone who had been to Israel, there are places that I will never be able to go to ?
Jews are welcome and even own property here. The issue is the Israeli passport or Israeli visa stamp because of the ongoing conflicts. Just as Tree pointed out Israel won't recognize Palestine as a nation, the Arabs won't recognize Israel.
I'm not defending but the UAE is on record as being ready to recognize Israel if the peace accords structured last year come through. They are holding out recognition until there is a break through on both sides.
There is no love lost here for Hamas.
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| 10 | nerveclinic
Leader
ID: 05047110
Wed, Feb 18, 2009, 14:50
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I think a writer of Atwood's stature pulling out will, indeed, hurt them. Image is everything in the Middle East.
Are you under the impression people here are that concerned about culture? They are concerned about Religion and Money in that order. Culture is something that is an oddity and they are more then happy to censor when homosexuality is involved. They don't care about a writer dropping out. Except for the people putting on the event.
PD even movies are heavily censored. No Nudity period. Every movie is watched by a censor and edited.
That having been said it's an illusion.
There are many, many homosexuals here. Lot's of gay Filipinos working in retail. You'd have to be blind. It's the game, the illusion. They are taking baby steps.
Compared to places like Kuwait or Saudi this is Las Vegas.
Why would you be surprised in a Muslim country that homosexuality is censored in art?
You can't even go in a store here and buy a beer. You have to go into a special liquor store and you have to have a license. (Unless you drive to the unrestricted duty free an hour away)
Don't have illusions of great freedoms here.
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| 11 | Perm Dude
ID: 17133189
Wed, Feb 18, 2009, 14:53
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Are you under the impression people here are that concerned about culture?
I'm sorry--was this Dubai Book Festival forced upon the country?
I'm under the impression that Dubai thinks it is of some importance because they are the ones who put the festival together.
Does culture overcome money & religion? About as much as in the US, I'm guessing. Which is to say, not very often.
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| 12 | nerveclinic
Leader
ID: 05047110
Wed, Feb 18, 2009, 15:01
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Dubai has created an image of political moderation which is desperately needed for their tourism industry, which I believe is a major component in their economy.
Next to property, tourism is the major industry.
It's not Americans though, it's Russians, Indians, Arabs and lots of Europeans.
Most Russians and Europeans, unlike Americans, understand how outrageous it is to deny entry to doctors going into a war zone to save dieing people.
They have the faculty of reason to say OK I might not agree with this (not granting the Visa to the Israeli tennis player), but I see the logic, several weeks after this massacre taking place, to use this as a form of protest.
Again a reminder, Jimmy Carter boycotted the Russian Olympics because they invaded Afghanistan.
I even doubt, if Americans actually came here for vacation, that would stop them. In any case, Americans don't come here so it doesn't really matter.
Pancho, if you planned a trip to Israel, would you cancel it now because they wouldn't allow doctors across the border to save dieing people?
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| 13 | nerveclinic
Leader
ID: 05047110
Wed, Feb 18, 2009, 15:03
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I'm sorry--was this Dubai Book Festival forced upon the country?
PD there were probably a dozen people in Dubai who put it together, they cared. The average politician, elder, whatever in Dubai could care a less. That's my perception living here.
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| 14 | nerveclinic
Leader
ID: 05047110
Wed, Feb 18, 2009, 15:11
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This isn't America.
A writer was recently sentenced to three years in jail in Thailand for "Insulting the King". He wrote a "novel" that only 7 people bought.
link
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| 15 | nerveclinic
Leader
ID: 05047110
Wed, Feb 18, 2009, 15:39
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How sad is it that as a Jew, and someone who had been to Israel, there are places that I will never be able to go to ?
Trust me you are not missing much.
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| 16 | nerveclinic
Leader
ID: 05047110
Wed, Feb 18, 2009, 15:46
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MBJ Trying to compare entry restriction in Gaza/Israel to entry into the UAE is really silly. There aren't on going hsotilities with bombs dropping and guns rattling in the UAE.
Come on MBJ it was medical doctors trying to get in to save people who were dieing. If the doctors wanted to risk their lives to enter a war zone to save human life that is their prerogative.
The UAE is appalled by what took place in Gaza several weeks ago as is much of the non USA world, they see his as their only form of protest.
Again, Israel didn't allow free access to FIFA sanctioned athletes. FIFA is the main governing body of world soccer. Did any of you bring that up? Why not?
Ironically looks like I am going to the tournament tomorrow.
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| 17 | Tree
ID: 1311551521
Wed, Feb 18, 2009, 16:47
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Jews are welcome and even own property here. The issue is the Israeli passport or Israeli visa stamp because of the ongoing conflicts. Just as Tree pointed out Israel won't recognize Palestine as a nation, the Arabs won't recognize Israel.
there's no logic in this argument.
Israel, *is* a country, recognized by nearly ever nation in the world, save for some of the Arab ones.
Palestine is NOT a country, nor is it recognized by many nations in the world, save for maybe a couple Arab nations.
Israel, is real. it exists a nation. Palestine, does not.
Again, Israel didn't allow free access to FIFA sanctioned athletes. FIFA is the main governing body of world soccer. Did any of you bring that up? Why not?
Why should Palestinian athletes get special treatment? because they're athletes?
sorry, i don't buy it. is someone less likely to have a bomb strapped to their chest because they kick a soccer ball?? what's that.
as for the "home" game played in October, it is already presenting political problems. because of the proximity of the stadium to East Jerusalem, there are some Palestinians who are saying that because they played a soccer game there, it gives them carte blanche and proof that East Jerusalem should be their capital.
oy.
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| 18 | boikin
ID: 532592112
Wed, Feb 18, 2009, 16:58
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Why should Palestinian athletes get special treatment? because they're athletes? I am sure this is the same arguement UAE is making about Israeli athletes.
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| 19 | Tree
ID: 1311551521
Wed, Feb 18, 2009, 18:29
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huh?
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| 20 | Razor
ID: 56038210
Wed, Feb 18, 2009, 18:58
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Tree - Palestine is recognized by many countries. Just not the US and much of Western Europe. But its recognition goes far beyond just a few Arab nations.
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| 21 | Mith
Dude
ID: 01629107
Wed, Feb 18, 2009, 19:24
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Palestine is NOT a country, nor is it recognized by many nations in the world, save for maybe a couple Arab nations.
Actually about half of the world's nations recognize Palestine as a state.
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| 22 | Mith
Dude
ID: 01629107
Wed, Feb 18, 2009, 19:26
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International Recognition of the State of Palestine
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| 23 | Tree
ID: 1311551521
Wed, Feb 18, 2009, 19:45
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ah yes. as proclaimed by the PLO...lol. that is too rich for words.
but it's also damned funny.
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| 24 | Perm Dude
ID: 17133189
Wed, Feb 18, 2009, 20:06
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So Palestine = "PLO" in your mind, and no more? Revealing.
This is like a European saying "USA = Rush Limbaugh."
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| 25 | Tree
ID: 1311551521
Wed, Feb 18, 2009, 22:10
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no PD. read the link MITH provided...
the PNC is just another part of the PLO..
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| 26 | Mith
Dude
ID: 01629107
Wed, Feb 18, 2009, 22:27
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Institute for Middle East Understanding About 100 nations recognize Palestine as a state, and an equal number maintain diplomatic relations with the Palestinians. Many have opened consular offices in the Palestinian Territories.
The Palestinian Authority issued a Palestinian passport to citizens of the West Bank & Gaza in 1995 that is honored by 29 nations.
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| 27 | Mith
Dude
ID: 01629107
Wed, Feb 18, 2009, 22:28
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If you can find a better soure, post it.
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| 29 | nerveclinic
Leader
ID: 05047110
Thu, Feb 19, 2009, 00:19
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I don't even understand what the difference is whether or not Israel thinks Palestine is a country. I think from Palestine's supporters the points would be this.
1) FIFA is the regulating authority for International Soccer (Football)
2) FIFA has sanctioned the Palestinian team.
3) For political reasons Israel has blocked and or harassed these athletes.
That would be the argument, Statehood seems like a none issue to me in this argument unless your reaching.
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| 30 | Tree
ID: 1311551521
Thu, Feb 19, 2009, 00:46
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Israel hasn't blocked anyone. but when the players cross borders, they don't get any special treatment just because they play soccer.
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| 31 | Seattle Zen
ID: 581241811
Thu, Feb 19, 2009, 01:04
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I guess the only conclusion we can draw, then, is that "not getting harassed and humiliated" is "special treatment". Pretty pathetic.
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| 32 | nerveclinic
Leader
ID: 05047110
Thu, Feb 19, 2009, 04:03
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Israel hasn't blocked anyone.
with countless examples of Gaza-based players being refused permission to leave the territory
I guess it depends on your definition of blocking.
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| 33 | nerveclinic
Leader
ID: 05047110
Thu, Feb 19, 2009, 08:36
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It's kind of funny when this issue had come up I had barely noticed the tournament was in town.
Last night a friend with an extra free ticket called and invited me so in about an hour I am headed to see the Williams sisters play.
Nerve
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| 34 | Tree
ID: 1311551521
Thu, Feb 19, 2009, 08:46
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I guess the only conclusion we can draw, then, is that "not getting harassed and humiliated" is "special treatment". Pretty pathetic.
no, actually, it just means getting checked at the border.
look, when you have a populace with a history of strapping bombs to their chests for the sole purpose of going to pizza parlors to murder mothers and babies, then hey, yea, you're gonna have to deal.
it's the same with police - a few bad apples spoil the whole bunch. i'm sure most cops are good - but, the few corrupt ones make me distrust the whole lot of them.
it's been simple all along - Recognize Israel, and don't bomb her, and your life will be much easier.
but that simplicity is lost in the hate and bloodlust.
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| 35 | Frick
ID: 3410551012
Thu, Feb 19, 2009, 09:06
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Re: 17
How many nations have to recognize a country for it to be a country?
Or the flip side, how many countries have to refuse to recognize a country for it not to be one?
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| 36 | Pancho Villa
ID: 51546319
Thu, Feb 19, 2009, 09:14
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Shahar Pe'er is an individual who happens to be an Israeli citizen. She isn't part of an Israeli state sponsored team. She earns her living playing tournaments, as opposed to an Israeli team which uses state money to outfit, feed and transport a squad.
I don't condone Israel's treatment of Palestinian soccer players, but it's kind of an apples/oranges comparison.
Meanwhile, Dubai is experiencing some serious backlash.
The Wall Street Journal Europe announced Tuesday that it had revoked its sponsorship of a Dubai women's tennis tournament, due to the United Arab Emirates' refusal to issue an entry visa for Israel's Shahar Pe'er.
"The Wall Street Journal's editorial philosophy is free markets and free people, and this action runs counter to the Journal's editorial direction," the Journal Europe said in a statement.
It added that it was also withdrawing its sponsorship of the men's tournament beginning next week.
In the US, the Tennis Channel has refused to broadcast the event, and the Women's Tennis Association has threatened to strike the lucrative tournament from the tennis calendar.
Dubai also has a decision to make concerning next week's men's tournament.
It remains unclear whether Andy Ram will be allowed to participate in next week's men's doubles tournament.
The ATP, which runs the men's tour, said it's awaiting "an official decision" on Ram's visa. It added that the UAE has an opportunity to "make the right decision."
It may be fortunate that the Dubai Desert Classic, part of the European Golf Tour, was just held a few weeks ago. Otherwise, it's very possible that sponsors for that event would have revoked their support as well.
Next to property, tourism is the major industry.
It's not Americans though, it's Russians, Indians, Arabs and lots of Europeans.
Most Russians and Europeans, unlike Americans, understand how outrageous it is to deny entry to doctors going into a war zone to save dieing people.
I think lots of Americans also understand how outrageous it is to deny doctors going into a war zone to save dieing people. And if Shahar Pe'er were still a member of the
IDF, I could better understand Dubai's position, as she would not only represent herself as a tennis player, but as a member of the Israeli armed forces.
But politics aside, I just don't see how this is a smart move for Dubai in an economic sense, given the importance of their tourism industry.
Tennis, golf and horse racing fans tend to cover a wide swath of the political spectrum. Does it make sense to alienate any of them?
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| 37 | Seattle Zen
ID: 81311911
Thu, Feb 19, 2009, 12:56
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Ram will play.
Smart move.
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| 38 | nerveclinic
Leader
ID: 05047110
Thu, Feb 19, 2009, 15:00
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But politics aside, I just don't see how this is a smart move for Dubai in an economic sense, given the importance of their tourism industry.
Tennis, golf and horse racing fans tend to cover a wide swath of the political spectrum. Does it make sense to alienate any of them?
Pancho not every decision is made for the money, some people weigh the implications and make decisions for ethical and moral reasons. I'm not sure you understand how intense the feelings of outrage were in many parts of the world about the massacre in Gaza last month.
Doctors tried to enter Gaza from Dubai and were stopped at the border. Dubai tried to fly badly wounded children here and were denied permission.
People are pissed. And remember, the government here is anti Hamas. They are in favor of the peace accords that would include the recognition of Israel that Tree is looking for.
Perhaps they will lose the tournament, perhaps they should, but I think they are honestly outraged and fighting back in the one small way they can right or wrong.
I'm sure they considered there is a good chance they will lose the tournament, but they acted on principle that they believed in...not just money, not just the future of the tournament.
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| 39 | nerveclinic
Leader
ID: 05047110
Thu, Feb 19, 2009, 15:09
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Interesting.
The ESPN article that Zen linked to was a white wash.
It implied that the athlete was banned, solely because of the fact she was Israel. I didn't include any context of the deaths in Gaza the last few weeks. The hundreds of civilian deaths. The children denied medical treatment by the Israelis.
The word Gaza wasn't even used.
Every night here footage was shown of the massacre, and it created an intense emotional landscape. This was just a couple weeks ago.
So the ESPN article put absolutely no context into the real reason the decision was made. It implied it was purely an anti Israel position with no other context.
Very disappointing but typical of American "free press".
Anyone who reads the article would think it was just bigotry behind the decision.
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| 40 | DWetzel
ID: 278201415
Thu, Feb 19, 2009, 16:06
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It IS bigotry. Understandable bigotry, probably; justifiably bigotry, possibly; but still bigotry.
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| 41 | boikin
ID: 532592112
Thu, Feb 19, 2009, 16:18
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It IS bigotry. Understandable bigotry, probably; justifiably bigotry, possibly; but still bigotry. pretty strong wording, is that how you refer to the US boycott of the 1980 Olympics?
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| 42 | WiddleAvi
ID: 361157177
Thu, Feb 19, 2009, 16:56
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The US chose to boycott the Olympics. They were not banned from the games.
Nerv - I don't see how what happened in Gaza is in any way related. She is a tennis player who is from Israel. She was not in Gaza killing people or denying doctors from entering. That is like bombing an entire city because you are trying to kill one person in that city. You are punishing a person who had nothing to do with the crime you are angry about.
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| 43 | boikin
ID: 532592112
Thu, Feb 19, 2009, 17:01
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The US chose to boycott the Olympics. They were not banned from the games. good point.
She is a tennis player who is from Israel. She was not in Gaza killing people or denying doctors from entering. That is like bombing an entire city because you are trying to kill one person in that city. You are punishing a person who had nothing to do with the crime you are angry about.
I think that is how embargoes strive to do.
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| 44 | nerveclinic
Leader
ID: 05047110
Thu, Feb 19, 2009, 17:16
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Widdle I am trying to make heads or tales of 42 but having a difficult time. Sorry.
For the record I think they should have allowed the tennis player in.
My whole point to the thread is to put the issue in the proper context and express some insights that you see when over here and not getting information through a filter... i.e. the ESPN article or as Baldwin would say...the MSM.
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| 45 | WiddleAvi
ID: 361157177
Thu, Feb 19, 2009, 17:32
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Nerv - My point was that the UAE is using what happened in Gaza as an excuse. a)Forget being an Israelli, just having been in Israel will give you problems getting into UAE. b)Yes, it is tragic about all the innocent people who dies in Gaza but what the hell does that have to do with Tennis ?
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| 46 | nerveclinic
Leader
ID: 05047110
Fri, Feb 20, 2009, 01:36
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Widdle concerning point "a" in post 45. Anyone, with an Israeli stamp in their passport could face difficulty getting into the UAE and other countries that don't recognize the state of Israel because of the ongoing situation there.
If you are an American Muslim and you have an Israeli stamp you could have a very difficult time at the border. It has nothing to do if you are a Jew.
I don't agree with this I am just explaining this because you are oversimplifying the context.
There is an ongoing political situation between Israel and many Arab nations. Just as Tree pointed out above, Israel doesn't recognize that the Palestinians, living in Palestine have a country, most Arabs also do not recognize the Israeli state.
That is why anyone with an Israeli stamp can have difficulties.
If you are a Jew, from any other country, and there is no Israeli stamp in your passport, there is no issue getting in. It's purely a political situation because of the circumstances.
What I have read, in the newspapers since I've been here (At least up until the recent Gaza invasion) is that the UAE is in favor of a peace accord, the one supported by the USA, that would recognize Israel and Palestine and at that point there would be no issues.
The point is, until the political situation and the peace accords are resolved, the Arab states that recognize Israel and allow the Israeli passport in unchallenged, are de facto recognizing Isreal as a state before Israel is recognizing Palestine. It's not difficult to understand.
They don't want to give up that recognition because it is a bargaining chip in the negotiations. If they treat Israel like a proper country now (i.e. recognize their Visa and Passport) what incentive is there for Israel to bargain for recognition of statehood as part of the accords?
This is what happens during times of war. I'm sure it was difficult for an American to visit Russia during the 1950's and likewise questions would be asked on your return. That was at a time when bullets weren't even flying and we did recognize the USSR as a state.
We don't have to like or agree with any of this, but try and at least understand all the context without over simplifying the reasons for the actions.
Do you think Israel would just allow any Arabs into their country with open arms at the border?
I do absolutely think the banning of the tennis player this week, right or wrong, was a direct result of the recent events in Gaza. I do think think they would have let the tennis player in were it not for the events in Gaza last month they would have made exceptions to the Visa/Passport rules.
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| 47 | Myboyjack
Dude
ID: 014826271
Fri, Feb 20, 2009, 07:10
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Perhaps they will lose the tournament, perhaps they should, but I think they are honestly outraged and fighting back in the one small way they can right or wrong.
I'm sure they considered there is a good chance they will lose the tournament, but they acted on principle that they believed in...not just money, not just the future of the tournament.
nerve- With respect, I don't think you have a good read on the UAE sentiment and motivations at all. I can only assume you wrote the above about priciple and monet due considration of the consequences in the moments before the uAE caved in to their sponsors and reversed course. Obviously, they didn't think anyone would care about one Jew more or less. If this was about some broad pricipled political statement and not just a continuing policy of sticking it to Israelis- what is the statement now?
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| 48 | nerveclinic
Leader
ID: 05047110
Fri, Feb 20, 2009, 08:28
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monet due considration of the consequences in the moments before the uAE caved in to their sponsors and reversed course. Obviously, they didn't think anyone would care about one Jew more or less. If this was about some broad pricipled political statement and not just a continuing policy of sticking it to Israelis- what is the statement now?
No argument on this point. They caved. They probably got a ear full from many different directions and at that point common sense prevailed.
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| 49 | Tree
ID: 61411921
Fri, Feb 20, 2009, 08:52
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If you are an American Muslim and you have an Israeli stamp you could have a very difficult time at the border. It has nothing to do if you are a Jew.
If you are an American Muslim and you have an Israeli stamp you could have a very difficult time at the border. It has nothing to do if you are a Jew.
no, you are the one oversimplifying it here. it has EVERYTHING to do with being a Jew - not the individual, but the nation. if Israel was an Arab nation, it wouldn't matter. but because she is a Jewish nation, it does.
Do you think Israel would just allow any Arabs into their country with open arms at the border?
yes, i do. EVERY DAY Israel does that. if you're not a threat, there's no problem, and with valid passport, you're free to come and go.
you do realize that TWENTY percent of the Israeli population, is Arab, right? they are allowed to vote like anyone else, travel freely like anyone else, and even serve in the Israeli military like anyone else.
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| 50 | Pancho Villa
ID: 51546319
Fri, Feb 20, 2009, 10:02
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There's another principle at work here.
Dubai commits to hold the WTA event annually, an event which includes the top women tennis players from around the world. Looking at the results the other day, both Williams sisters, most of the top Russians, Serbian, Chinese, Argentine, Indian and numerous other nationalities are represented.
This is a premiere tournament, not some satellite event where the top seed is #17 in the world. Consequently, the purse is high, and simply qualifying for the tournament results in a nice pay day. By denying Pe'er entrance, Dubai has punished one individual, not Israel.
Pe'er is not a top player. The Williams sisters are. Dubai could have made an even bigger political protest statement by denying access to Venus and Serena under the principle that the United States provided the weaponry and monetary support that Israel used to cause misery in Gaza.
Such a move would have doomed not only the future of the WTA tournament, but likely any future international sports competitions.
Nerve says people in Dubai are pissed. It's understandable why Dubai, and the Arab world in general and beyond feel the need to protest Israel's actions in Gaza, especially as it relates to civilian suffering.
But Pe'er is a bad target. She's but one of scores of individuals around the globe who qualified for this tournament based on her accomplishments, not her nationality.
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| 51 | Tree
ID: 61411921
Fri, Feb 20, 2009, 10:29
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Travel guru Arthur Frommer weighs in...
Isn't it time for all of us to say: Bye, bye, Dubai? How much longer should the travel media lavish praise on this wholly artificial, utterly disingenuous, imitation of a modern resort city?
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| 52 | DWetzel
ID: 278201415
Fri, Feb 20, 2009, 10:49
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As usual, well said Pancho.
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| 53 | nerveclinic
Leader
ID: 05047110
Fri, Feb 20, 2009, 12:08
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Isn't it time for all of us to say: Bye, bye, Dubai? How much longer should the travel media lavish praise on this wholly artificial, utterly disingenuous, imitation of a modern resort city?
I have absolutely no idea why anyone would come in the first place, it's always puzzled me.
I agreed with Frommer's statement the first time I set foot here.
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| 54 | nerveclinic
Leader
ID: 05047110
Fri, Feb 20, 2009, 12:33
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Pancho your example is like a fairy tale.
The UAE is a strong Allie of the USA. They invaded Iraq with us during the first Gulf war. They also receive weapons from the USA. Finally, the USA is the countries protector. They would be fools to do what you suggest.
None of the statements above apply to Israel.
Yes, they used American weapons to invade Gaza, but UAE has USA weapons, as do the Saudi's and Egypt.
So while your speech was nice and dramatic sounding, it was nothing more then a fantasy that makes no sense at all.
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| 55 | nerveclinic
Leader
ID: 05047110
Sat, Feb 21, 2009, 23:32
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New developments.
The tournament has been fined $300,000 because Peer was refused entry to UAE. The tournament is incredulous because they had nothing whatsoever to do with the refusal of entry, it was strictly the government.
They have been told they may lose the tournament next year.
Andy Rodick has dropped out of the men's tournament apparently because of the ban saying "I don't think it best to mix politics and sports"
So as expected they are getting pay back and hopefully learned a lesson.
You play with fire...
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| 56 | nerveclinic
Leader
ID: 05047110
Sun, Feb 22, 2009, 00:47
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The question Pancho raised, why doesn't Dubai ban Serena and Venus to make a point doesn't seem to me to be the correct one. The question is why did Serena, and Venus agree to play after the ban and why did the tournament go on?
The tournament should be pulled from Dubai next year.
Nerve
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| 57 | nerveclinic
Leader
ID: 05047110
Tue, Feb 24, 2009, 08:49
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By the way Andy Rodick is boycotting the men's tournament in protest over Peers denied Visa.
More egg on their face.
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| 58 | nerveclinic
Leader
ID: 05047110
Tue, Feb 24, 2009, 08:51
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Then one has to ask...is this somehow different?
Zimbabwe are likely to be banned from touring England next year even if the International Cricket Council next week fail to cast them into the cricketing wilderness.
The Government last night wrote to the England and Wales Cricket Board to say they do not want England to play against Zimbabwe and that their cricketers could be denied entry to compete in the World Twenty20 Championship and a one-day series they are due to play before the Ashes.
hmmmmm
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| 59 | Boxman
ID: 337352111
Tue, Feb 24, 2009, 09:30
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I don't get the outrage over this.
Right or wrong Israel blasted a bunch of Palestinians, including civilians, into smithereens.
Dubai is an Arab country so they don't allow the Israeli player into their country to play in a tournament.
That Israeli tennis player might be a "bad target", but so was the refugee camp that Israel inadvertently bombed with artillery or any of the other civilian casualities. At least no one died this time.
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| 60 | Tree
ID: 61411921
Tue, Feb 24, 2009, 11:03
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NC - your article has no link nor context, so it's hard to judge. is there more info?
Box - i think you missed the first 50 some odd posts in this thread. it's comparing apples to oranges, but the bigger issue is that you have an Arab country that, in a lot of ways, wants to be a big time western tourist destination for the rich and famous...
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| 61 | nerveclinic
Leader
ID: 05047110
Tue, Feb 24, 2009, 11:06
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The whole fall out on the thing has been interesting to watch.
For instance the article Tree linked to by Fromme of the travel guide fame.
He mentions it is "illegal" for unmarried couples to have sex in Dubai... forgive me while I smirk.
Oh that may be the "law" but on any given night you can go to a dozen bars, with a thousand women waiting to go home with you and have unmarried sex(For money).
Everyone knows what goes on at the bars, the people who live here know, the government knows, the police know... and yet there they are, never raided, never molested just an accepted part of life here.
Any one of these bars would have been closed within a week of opening in almost any city in the USA.
Unmarried couple are welcome at hotels, you can check in together with different last names without so much as a sideways glance.
Now one would think that Fromme knows this is an unenforced law, unless you really screw up in some other way and they pull it out then. (like the British couple who had open sex on a beach, during the day, while other people watched and who continued after the police asked them to stop once. They received no jail time at sentencing)
So surely Fromme, being in the business he is in, knows this, yet he chooses to mention it as if it's an enforced law here, which is either dishonest, or he doesn't know as much about Dubai as he claims.
Illegal to have sex in Dubai if you are not married? That is the funniest thing I have heard in a while.
Believe me there is plenty to complain about, and I don't agree with the ban, but there is a lot of one sided reporting going on that isn't really fair.
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| 62 | nerveclinic
Leader
ID: 05047110
Tue, Feb 24, 2009, 11:08
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Tree here are two articles, I don't remember which one I pasted from.
link
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/cricket/article3126496.ece
He's banning sanctioned cricket players/team because he doesn't like the Zimbabwe government.
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| 63 | nerveclinic
Leader
ID: 05047110
Sun, Mar 01, 2009, 15:04
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PD Apparently you can't go to a writer's festival in Dubai if you have a character who is gay.
I think a writer of Atwood's stature pulling out will, indeed, hurt them. Image is everything in the Middle East.
I haven't followed this up but todays paper is claiming that there never was a ban, and the claim was contrived.
Atwood has apologized for being taken in and has volunteered to appear at the festival by video link.
This was in today's paper.
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| 64 | nerveclinic
Leader
ID: 05047110
Thu, Mar 05, 2009, 11:59
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Next tournament in Sweden with Israeli participants.
About 1,000 police from seven counties will handle security ahead of Sweden's Davis Cup match against Israel next week amid fears that protests could turn violent.
Police commissioner Hakan Jarborg Eriksson said Thursday that officials expect a "Stop the Match" protest, formed after Israel's offensive in Gaza started in December, to be relatively calm. But there are fears that protests from small, radical groups could turn violent.
The first-round World Group match will be played March 6-8 without fans at the 4,000-seat Baltic Hall. Only teams, officials, some sponsors and journalists will be allowed to enter the hall.
Organizers of a "Stop the Match" campaign expect 8,000 to 12,000 will demonstrate on March 7 before the Davis Cup doubles match.
"They have said that they want to stop the match at all costs," Jarborg Eriksson told Swedish news agency TT.
Left-wing groups, human rights organizations and pro-Palestinian groups also plan to demonstrate during the best-of-five series.
In Dubai (For men's doubles player Israeli Ram) there were no protests, no booing and they played in front of a normal crowd. (oh I forgot, you're not allowed to protest in Dubai.)
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