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Subject: Postmodernism For the Masses Posted by: Baldwin - [38241203] Fri, Mar 20, 2009, 05:55 "The larger problem is we've got to get back to an attitude where people know enough is enough, and people have a sense of responsibility and they understand that their actions are going to have an impact on everybody," he said. "If we can get back to those values that built America, then I think we're going to be OK." If we could only return to those socialist values of yore. To paraphrase - "Listen, I'll take responsibility. But I didn't do it." Granted politicians have been weasels forever. But to so directly contradict the meaning of the word, just contributes to destroying the ability to communicate and even to think. When words have no meanings ala Orwell where will you be then? | |||||||
| 1 | Mith Dude ID: 01629107 Fri, Mar 20, 2009, 08:50 |
But to so directly contradict the meaning of the word, just contributes to destroying the ability to communicate and even to think. When words have no meanings ala Orwell where will you be then? You tell me. Where were you when these words were said: First, let me say I take full responsibility for my own actions and for those of my administration. As angry as I may be about activities undertaken without my knowledge, I am still accountable for those activities. | ||||||
| 2 | Baldwin ID: 38241203 Fri, Mar 20, 2009, 10:07 |
Nicely done. One thot preventing socialism warranted extreme measures, and one thot committing socialism warranted extreme measures. Remarkably similar. | ||||||
| 3 | Boxman ID: 3821468 Fri, Mar 20, 2009, 14:13 |
Baldwin: It all boils down to education and sound bites. Truth means very little anymore and people get brainwashed very easily nowadays because of short attention spans and partisan talking points. Take the topic of finance which is THE topic in the country right now. Just like with income disparity there is a huge amount of knowledge disparity with haves and have nots. Money and the power of personal finance makes the world go around and plays a vital in everyone's survival. How much education did you have in personal finance in public school? I had very little. In high school I had a consumer education class where they taught me to balance a checkbook and negotiate a car purchase. Nothing about budgeting, savings, or buying a house. The system sets people up to failure almost as if its deliberate. Now compare those poor publicly educated schleps to someone with a college degree in finance who works for a bank. They don't stand a chance. In the jungle the strong animal kills the weak one and people call it natural selection or evolution and move on. But when it applies to people they want to slow the whole system down and point the finger at everyone but the one who decided to get a mortgage they couldn't afford. What is going on in this country is really natural selection applied to human beings; right or wrong. People who know nothing about finance got/are getting slaughtered by people who do. And its perfectly legal and should be. In cases of clear fraud and cheating then yeah send people to prison, but in normal cases the regular guy is duped by a system created to keep them poor and sharks all too eager to keep them in debt. So instead of arming himself with tools to live and hunt successfully outside the cave people extend their fingers and point at derivatives traders at AIG or other places, but never look inward. In the end, while the power elite is not blameless by any stretch, I don't recall instances en masse with people having guns put to their head to buy cars with home equity loans, run up credit cards, or sign mortgage papers they couldn't afford. | ||||||
| 4 | Baldwin ID: 38241203 Fri, Mar 20, 2009, 16:36 |
The bubbles are created by the Fed. The crashes are caused by the power elite who swoop in like vultures and change governments and enrich themselves at firesale prices. The public cannot time these things. The power elite can and do time these events, besides the fact that they are always in a position to take advantage. There is no question in my mind that the current situation is FDR II. The power elite are just running the same program on us all over again. More socialism. More vulture dynasty wealth being created by the power elite all in the name of benefitting the poor. Is there anyone who still believes the fortuitous doubling of gasoline prices just before the election was due to the world suddenly running out of oil? No, it was an October surprise pure and simple. Power elite futures and short trading, just tipping some existing trends past the critical mass. The common man is certainly not to blame for derivitive traders selling insurance using our collective wealth as a country as their collateral. Knowing that the USA would be forced to cover their gambling debts. The common man is not to blame that the liberals once again sabotaged the system in order to socialize another segment of the economy, this time housing [and a chunk of insurance/banking as an unanticipated? side benefit in their view]. The Dems could have included the demand to eliminate bonuses as a precondition of the bailout and neglected to do so. They own 80% after all. No this didn't give them the legal right to tear up contracts but it gave them the right to fire anyone who chose to take their bonuses. No what they really wanted was a golden opportunity to demonize the rich [their own contributors] and set a public atmosphere where illegally targetting a select few for confiscatory taxes was acceptable. They actually demonized banks who didn't even ask for, want or need government handouts, calling them greedy. They were setting a pretext for fascism, where private ownership has government control. [the definition of fascism] But there is definately a deliberate dumbing down at work. The power elite don't want a middle class. They want just two classes. An efficient mindless hopeless drone class of workers and the vampiric power elite in control. | ||||||
| 5 | nerveclinic Leader ID: 05047110 Sat, Mar 21, 2009, 03:19 |
The Dems could have included the demand to eliminate bonuses as a precondition of the bailout and neglected to do so. The bonuses are the least of our problems right now. That's what people like you will focus on because at all cost you want to find whatever you can to "blame it on the Democrats" Blame it on Obama" Shift the worst economic crisis since the depression that was handed to him by the previous administration and find ways to shift blame over to Obama, because as we all know, whether you voted for him or not, Bush has always been your boy. The bonuses while unfortunate, are nothing in the grand scheme of things. While you are busy crying about them, and having angry tea parties waving hand made posters, you'll get hit with the next wave of the crisis because we aren't done yet. The bonuses are the Roman Circus, a distraction, 180 million dollars when we are talking about a multi trillion dollar crisis that isn't over. Your still complaining about them and they have already been addressed by the congress by taxing them at 90%. Ironically, your party the Republicans voted against it in large numbers? So the dems blew it? And should have caught the bonuses? Yet now when they try and correct the situation half the Republicans voted against taxing the bonuses. Why are you focusing on the past? Bonuses should have been stopped. Instead of the present? The dems are taxing the bonuses to take back the money. Oh don't answer, it's because the dems are correcting the problem and the Republicans are trying to get in the way. | ||||||
| 6 | jedman Dude ID: 315192219 Sat, Mar 21, 2009, 09:15 |
nerve - Doesn't it scare you that these people who did nothing illegal are being targeted with a special tax? Where does it stop? If Congress decides that baseball players, just picking out a group of wealthy people, make too much money and since the sport isn't cleaning up the steroid problem to their satisfaction, they are going to be taxed at a higher rate, would that be fair? My issue is that Congress should not be able to target a specific group and tax them because they don't like them. That is very scary. Now we read that bus tours are being organized to tour the homes of AIG executives in Connecticut. That is moving towards mob mentality. I think the Dems are covering their butts because the administration not only knew about the bonuses but approved the bonuses. If they would have allowed time to read the stupid stimulus bill, maybe this would have been caught and taken care of before it happened. I agree that there are much bigger problems out there, but I think it is the height of hypocrisy for the Dems to single out those AIG executives with a special tax when they knew the bonuses were there and given that they are the ONLY ones, except Specter, Snow, and Collins, to vote for the stimulus plan. | ||||||
| 7 | biliruben Leader ID: 589301110 Sat, Mar 21, 2009, 09:17 | Dang it, Nerve! I wanted to leave this thread alone and see where they would take their social-darwinist wet-dream. | ||||||
| 8 | Tree ID: 61411921 Sat, Mar 21, 2009, 10:49 |
and to think, i was going to call this thread the latest wingnut circle jerk started by Baldwin..."wet dream" is so quaint. i really don't think creating special taxes for the rich is going far enough. i think we should line them up and shoot them. but only a percentage of them, chosen randomly based on an algorithmic equation that include the length of their index finger vs. the closing number of the dow that day vs the price of gold vs. the number of threads started like this on message boards across america by Baldwin and Baldwin-esque posters. | ||||||
| 9 | nerveclinic Leader ID: 05047110 Sat, Mar 21, 2009, 11:00 |
Jedman nerve - Doesn't it scare you that these people who did nothing illegal are being targeted with a special tax? Where does it stop? If Congress decides that baseball players, just picking out a group of wealthy people, make too much money and since the sport isn't cleaning up the steroid problem to their satisfaction, they are going to be taxed at a higher rate, would that be fair? My issue is that Congress should not be able to target a specific group and tax them because they don't like them. That is very scary. No offense Jedman but you aren't really articulating all the issues involved and the basbeball analogy is not analogous. I don't have strong feelings about it either way, because as I said, it's simply not that big an issue compared to the overall melt down. The "special group" as you describe it are all people who work for companies that have accepted 5 billion in TARP money. These companies were all essentially insolvent. Without this money they would have gone bankrupt (And may still) So these employees getting bonuses, over and above their normal salary, using taxpayer money, are lucky to even have a job. Many of the people getting bonuses are the very people who put together the toxic packages that destroyed the company and our economy. How can you compare someone working for an insolvent company getting a bonus with taxpayer money to a baseball player simply because there are steroids in baseball. That's like comparing water to sand. But again I'm not one of those who is losing sleep over the issue either way. | ||||||
| 10 | jedman Dude ID: 315192219 Sat, Mar 21, 2009, 11:37 |
I'm really trying to just compare the AIG employees to any group of people that Congress may not like for whatever reason and decide to tax. It just scares me that Congress thinks they can just impose a special tax on a targeted group of people. It is unconstitutional. Bill of Attainder Definition: A legislative act that singles out an individual or group for punishment without a trial. The Constitution of the United States, Article I, Section 9, paragraph 3 provides that: "No Bill of Attainder or ex post facto Law will be passed." "The Bill of Attainder Clause was intended not as a narrow, technical (and therefore soon to be outmoded) prohibition, but rather as an implementation of the separation of powers, a general safeguard against legislative exercise of the judicial function or more simply - trial by legislature." U.S. v. Brown, 381 U.S. 437, 440 (1965). "These clauses of the Constitution are not of the broad, general nature of the Due Process Clause, but refer to rather precise legal terms which had a meaning under English law at the time the Constitution was adopted. A bill of attainder was a legislative act that singled out one or more persons and imposed punishment on them, without benefit of trial. Such actions were regarded as odious by the framers of the Constitution because it was the traditional role of a court, judging an individual case, to impose punishment." William H. Rehnquist, The Supreme Court, page 166. "Bills of attainder, ex post facto laws, and laws impairing the obligations of contracts, are contrary to the first principles of the social compact, and to every principle of sound legislation. ... The sober people of America are weary of the fluctuating policy which has directed the public councils. They have seen with regret and indignation that sudden changes and legislative interferences, in cases affecting personal rights, become jobs in the hands of enterprising and influential speculators, and snares to the more-industrious and less-informed part of the community." James Madison, Federalist Number 44, 1788. | ||||||
| 11 | Seattle Zen ID: 38256219 Sat, Mar 21, 2009, 11:57 |
It just scares me that Congress thinks they can just impose a special tax on a targeted group of people. You scare easily. Bill of attainder deals with crimes, not taxes. | ||||||
| 12 | nerveclinic Leader ID: 05047110 Sat, Mar 21, 2009, 12:26 |
Jedman I'm really trying to just compare the AIG employees to any group of people that Congress may not like for whatever reason and decide to tax. It just scares me that Congress thinks they can just impose a special tax on a targeted group of people. It is unconstitutional. The issue isn't whether or not congress "likes" them. They are working for insolvent companies that have been propped up with tax payer money. Congress didn't just pick a "group they don't like". They are still getting paid. This was just a bonus. It would be unconstitutional if they truly singled out a small group of people, but the lawyers who wrote this took into account your concerns. The bill targets ALL companies that have been given 5 billion in taxpayer money and taxes bonuses of any employees of a company in that group at 90%. I heard lawyers on Bloomberg discussing the constitutional issues and they concluded it's not an issue. It has nothing to do with congress "not liking" a company, it has everything to do with whether or not companies that are kept solvent with taxpayer money can give out bonuses. When they start just going after groups "they don't like" start a thread about it and we can debate further. | ||||||
| 13 | jedman Dude ID: 315192219 Sat, Mar 21, 2009, 12:45 |
I've heard just as many lawyers talking about it being a bill of attainder. We'll see how it ends up. I don't disagree that bonuses paid to employees of companies getting TARP money should be closely monitored, I just disagree that this tax is the way to do it. | ||||||
| 14 | Perm Dude ID: 302192110 Sat, Mar 21, 2009, 12:53 | I agree with you, jedman. So do a lot of Democrats like Paul Krugman. Passing laws in the heat of emotion is what got us into Iraq (for instance). There are better ways to handle it, but one has to admit that AIG has brought a lot of this onto themselves. | ||||||
| 15 | Mattinglyinthehall ID: 37838313 Sat, Mar 21, 2009, 12:59 | Hilzoy's issues with the bill | ||||||
| 16 | nerveclinic Leader ID: 05047110 Sat, Mar 21, 2009, 14:30 |
From MITH Link Moreover, while the bonuses are outrageous, they are not on my list of the top 100 things we need to worry about right now. I couldn't agree more... | ||||||
| 17 | Boxman ID: 571114225 Sat, Mar 21, 2009, 18:29 |
It would be unconstitutional if they truly singled out a small group of people, but the lawyers who wrote this took into account your concerns. The bill targets ALL companies that have been given 5 billion in taxpayer money and taxes bonuses of any employees of a company in that group at 90%. I'm with Jedman on this issue. Sorry but how anonymous are these people? It reminds me of an "anonymous" employee survey everyone at my company had to take one time. There were about 4 or 5 identifying questions, where used in concert, could easily identify anyone in a department. So while you may be anonymous in the sense your name isn't there, people know who you are. I think the bonus thing is getting too much play in the media now. Let's get back to the people's business. I say have show trials for the scum execs at AIG that perpetrated this and be done with it. Leave the bonus recipients themselves alone. | ||||||
| 18 | Baldwin ID: 38241203 Sat, Mar 21, 2009, 19:54 | AIG didn't perpetrate this. Chris Dodd, Barney Frank, their fellow conmgressmen on the banking committee did, people whose money George Soros manages perpetrated this. Those planning the October Surprise perpetrated this. Those planning to socialize the country perpetrated this. | ||||||
| 19 | Pancho Villa ID: 152372116 Sat, Mar 21, 2009, 20:09 |
people whose money George Soros manages perpetrated this. Why hide behind the anonymous term 'people?' Let's have some real names. | ||||||
| 21 | Baldwin ID: 38241203 Sat, Mar 21, 2009, 20:31 | Rothchild and buddies. | ||||||
| 22 | Baldwin ID: 38241203 Sat, Mar 21, 2009, 20:32 | Spelling correction, Rothschild. | ||||||
| 23 | Baldwin ID: 38241203 Sat, Mar 21, 2009, 20:38 | The sordid details. | ||||||
| 24 | Pancho Villa ID: 152372116 Sat, Mar 21, 2009, 20:41 |
Not one mention of George Soros in the link in #22. There is mention of the Rothschild family is one of 13 dynastic bloodlines linked to the Illuminati. New World Order conspiracy theories present the Rothschilds, Rockefellers, Phipps', DuPonts, Vanderbilts, Bush family, etc. as the real rulers or would-be rulers of the world. Now, what evidence do you have that Soros manages the Rothschild money? As if the Rothschilds need Soros to manage their money. | ||||||
| 25 | Baldwin ID: 38241203 Sat, Mar 21, 2009, 21:15 |
Read the entire link in 23. It is not a secret. It is a downplayed true fact. | ||||||
| 26 | Pancho Villa ID: 152372116 Sat, Mar 21, 2009, 22:12 |
So, according to your link(how many times have you posted this same exact link): From the very first days when Soros created his own investment fund in 1969, he owed his success to his relation to the Rothschild family banking network. Soros worked in New York in the 1960s for a small private bank close to the Rothschilds, Arnhold & S. Bleichroeder, Inc., a banking family which represented Rothschild interests in Germany during Bismarck's time. To this day, A. & S. Bleichroeder, Inc. remains the Principal Custodian, along with Citibank, of funds of Soros's Quantum Fund. George C. Karlweiss, of Edmond de Rothschild's Switzerland-based Banque Privee SA in Lugano, as well as of the scandal-tainted Rothschild Bank AG of Zurich, gave Soros financial backing. Karlweiss provided some of the vital initial capital and investors for Soros's Quantum Fund. Soros received some financial backing from Rothschild associates. Along the same lines, we are told that others have received backing from Rothschild associates, such as: N.M. Rothschild and Sons is also implicated in some of the filthiest drugs-for-weapons secret intelligence operations. Because it is connected to the highest levels of the British intelligence establishment, Rothschilds managed to evade any prominent mention of its complicity in one of the more sordid black covert intelligence networks, that of the Bank of Credit and Commerce International (BCCI). Rothschilds was at the center of the international web of money-laundering banks used during the 1970s and 1980s by Britain's MI-6 and the networks of Col. Oliver North and George Bush, to finance such projects as the Nicaraguan Contras. And, of course, BCCI is thick with associations with GWH Bush's Arbusto and the Carlyle Group. So, I suppose it's also no secret that people whose money Bush 41, Bush 43, Oliver North, Booz Allen Hamilton, Frank Carlucci(and the list goes on and on) manages perpetrated this. | ||||||
| 27 | Baldwin ID: 38241203 Sat, Mar 21, 2009, 22:17 |
"What needs to be stressed, is the symbiosis or mutual interaction between the Soros cultural-ideological offensive in Eastern and Central Europe, and the evolution of the movement of "Communitarianism" in the United States, Germany, Britain, and other Western countries." | ||||||
| 28 | Baldwin ID: 38241203 Sat, Mar 21, 2009, 22:20 |
PV Globalists are all working for the same thing. | ||||||
| 29 | Pancho Villa ID: 152372116 Sat, Mar 21, 2009, 22:23 |
#27 That's an opinion, just as, from my link in #26 The Carlyle Group profited greatly from 9/11. It owns United Defense, with whom the army signed contracts for millions and millions of dollars during the War on Terror. Another company owned by the Carlyle group is Booz Allen Hamilton, a government contractor who has done work for both the DHS and the NSA in the post 9/11 years, making gigantic profits. is an opin.....hey, wait, those are facts. | ||||||
| 30 | nerveclinic Leader ID: 05047110 Sun, Mar 22, 2009, 01:08 |
So, I suppose it's also no secret that people whose money Bush 41, Bush 43, Oliver North, Booz Allen Hamilton, Frank Carlucci(and the list goes on and on) manages perpetrated this. PV SSSSSSHHHHHHHHHH Don't you know? When Baldwin hands you a treasure of a link, you are only supposed to reference his enemies when quoting from it, ACORN, George Soros and any Democrat (Extra points for Nancy Pelosi and Barney Frank) Haven't you noticed Baldwin never mentions Republicans negatively accused in his links? If Baldwin is going to be generous enough to hand you the key to his golden link, please stick with the program and only read the parts about George Soros. It is Baldwin's link after all. | ||||||
| 31 | Baldwin ID: 38241203 Sun, Mar 22, 2009, 01:19 | The behavior you describe is your own. Soros doesn't get off the hook in my book because he hands out cash to both sides of the false dichotomy. He gets let off the hook because that fools you. | ||||||
| 32 | Baldwin ID: 212502314 Tue, Mar 24, 2009, 05:13 |
And further my understanding of the world easily encompasses that reality. I understand that there are globalists and mystery religion devotees on all sides of the political spectrum and that the left/right false dichotomy is their invention only there to fool us while they pursue their own perpendicular agenda. You are the ones who assume one side is right and one is wrong. Au contrare. They are both wrong almost all the time. They are both dishonest. They both talk out of both sides of their mouth, telling people what they want to hear and doing the bidding of those who finance them instead. | ||||||
| 33 | Baldwin ID: 212502314 Tue, Mar 24, 2009, 05:18 |
CiffsNotes to Baldwin's last comments. Soros funds Obama and Soros funds McCain. Republicans vote one way, Dems the other. But it's Soros who gets what he wants. | ||||||
| 34 | biliruben Leader ID: 589301110 Tue, Mar 24, 2009, 08:57 |
Hide the children and pastries! The globalist are coming and globalists are coming! Perish the thought that we should consider ourselves equals, and perhaps brothers, to those who had the misfortune to be born someplace besides Illinois. | ||||||
| 35 | Pancho Villa ID: 42220236 Tue, Mar 24, 2009, 10:26 |
Barack Obama's campaign has pocketed $870,165 from defense-contractor sources, 34% more than the $647,313 in contributions McCain's campaign received from the same sector link So defense contractors, like Soros and many other entities, contributed to both Obama and McCain. Does that mean they always get what they want? And what is it that Soros wants that he got? | ||||||
| 36 | Baldwin ID: 212502314 Tue, Mar 24, 2009, 13:21 |
Read the links provided. He destabilizes countries and buys up the remains for peanuts. He wants coutries prostrate and ripe for the pickings. What he doesn't want is to to get labeled an illegal trader and to be banned from the banquet table. Like he has after the fact in France and other countries. That's the money side of it. On the political side of it, to the extent that you can seperate it from the vulture aspect, see the results from the latest Builderburger conference. | ||||||
| 37 | Perm Dude ID: 25215249 Tue, Mar 24, 2009, 15:10 |
So you're taking Soros to task for acting like--a capitalist? Baldwin: The closet socialist. | ||||||
| 38 | Baldwin ID: 212502314 Tue, Mar 24, 2009, 15:55 | One world government will not be capitalist for you and me. For Rothschild maybe. | ||||||
| 39 | bibA ID: 512112314 Tue, Mar 24, 2009, 18:49 | No Perm. It appears that he is saying Soros is intent on investing in destabalized countries. | ||||||
| 40 | Pancho Villa ID: 42220236 Tue, Mar 24, 2009, 19:45 |
Soros is intent on investing in destabalized countries. And in case of Argentina and Brazil, actually helping their economies and creating jobs. link But understanding that would take objective research. | ||||||
| 41 | Tree ID: 61411921 Tue, Mar 24, 2009, 20:06 | i blame the Jews... | ||||||
| 42 | Baldwin ID: 212502314 Tue, Mar 24, 2009, 23:56 |
Poland: In late 1989, Soros organized a secret meeting between the "reform" communist government of Prime Minister Mieczyslaw Rakowski and the leaders of the then-illegal Solidarnosc trade union organization. According to well-informed Polish sources, at that 1989 meeting, Soros unveiled his "plan" for Poland: The communists must let Solidarnosc take over the government, so as to gain the confidence of the population. Then, said Soros, the state must act to bankrupt its own industrial and agricultural enterprises, using astronomical interest rates, withholding state credits, and burdening firms with unpayable debt. Once thie were done, Soros promised that he would encourage his wealthy international business friends to come into Poland, as prospective buyers of the privatized state enterprises. A recent example of this privatization plan is the case of the large steel facility Huta Warsawa. According to steel experts, this modern complex would cost $3-4 billion for a western company to build new. Several months ago, the Polish government agreed to assume the debts of Huta Warsawa, and to sell the debt-free enterprise to a Milan company, Lucchini, for $30 million!.There is your boy scout for you, from a previous link I guess you didn't read. | ||||||
| 43 | biliruben Leader ID: 589301110 Tue, Mar 24, 2009, 23:59 | You should probably link the source of that block, dontchathink? | ||||||
| 44 | Baldwin ID: 212502314 Wed, Mar 25, 2009, 00:02 | Baldwin #23. | ||||||
| 45 | biliruben Leader ID: 589301110 Wed, Mar 25, 2009, 00:04 |
Never mind. Every wingnut site imaginable has it. Looks like quite a collaborative work of art. Usually your standards are higher for your fiction, Baldwin. WND looks like the Christian Science Monitor in comparison. | ||||||
| 46 | Baldwin ID: 212502314 Wed, Mar 25, 2009, 00:10 | But you buy into media reports that he is a benevolent force for good in the world. Ahuh, yeah, thanks, the watchdog press don't bark his direction. | ||||||
| 47 | biliruben Leader ID: 589301110 Wed, Mar 25, 2009, 00:21 |
I don't buy into anything. I don't know Soros from Elvis, and certainly don't obsess over speculating on the inner workings of his mind. I leave that to the wingnuts. That interesting bit of authorship reads similar to the sign of one of our more colorful Seattle characters, Juan, who camps down in front of Nordstrom's:  In other words, until I see actual evidence to the contrary, I assume the authors are mentally ill. | ||||||
| 48 | Pancho Villa ID: 42220236 Wed, Mar 25, 2009, 00:36 |
you buy into media reports that he is a benevolent force for good in the world. And you buy into media reports that he is the very face of evil, destabilizing country after country and running the Democratic Party like some shadowy wizard behind a curtain. The truth is that the right hates him because he vocally and financially opposed George W Bush in the 2004 election, so their characterizations have gone so over the top as to be divorced from reality. Soros is no angel and has lots of baggage, though most of it is decades old. And there aren't many media reports that paint Soros as a benevolent force for good in the world. There's a whole lot more that paint him in the same colors as you do. | ||||||
| 49 | Baldwin ID: 212502314 Wed, Mar 25, 2009, 01:45 |
Ask Britain. Ask France. Ask Malaysia. Ask Taiwan. And on and on. So don't take my word fror it. I thot Soros had a personal relationship with the devil a long time before George Bush's presidency. | ||||||
| 50 | Taxman ID: 3985420 Wed, Mar 25, 2009, 02:55 |
Baldy #5: Have you no pride or judgement? It is painfully obvious that you are w/o formal education (no, Bible study is not formal education). I am astounded everyone passed on your "grimes fairytail" definition of fascism :"They were setting a pretext for fascism, where private ownership has government control. [the definition of fascism] Said definition in the real world as well as in dictionary .com:dictionary.com fas·cism (fâsh'ĭz'əm) n. often Fascism A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism. A political philosophy or movement based on or advocating such a system of government. Oppressive, dictatorial control. Word History: It is fitting that the name of an authoritarian political movement like Fascism, founded in 1919 by Benito Mussolini, should come from the name of a symbol of authority. The Italian name of the movement, fascismo, is derived from fascio, "bundle, (political) group," but also refers to the movement's emblem, the fasces, a bundle of rods bound around a projecting axe-head that was carried before an ancient Roman magistrate by an attendant as a symbol of authority and power. The name of Mussolini's group of revolutionaries was soon used for similar nationalistic movements in other countries that sought to gain power through violence and ruthlessness, such as National Socialism. You couls gain some credibility if you would stop the "word association game" with Obama's administration. There is no strong arm...he neither gained nor maintained power through violence or ruthlessness. Obama has made multiple overtures to the minority parties (in stark contrast to the Republican leadership disaaster over the past 8 years). If you want meaningfull dialogue on these boards, you "MUST" adhere to rules of common intelligence. I for one am on the verge of never reading another of your posts. You vague and unsupported accusations, denouncements and statements of fact kill intelectual discourse. Yes this post is couched as a personal attack, but is in fact pleading with you to understand the ramifications of you not changing the substance of your posts. Please post all intellectual, referenced thoughts that disagree/challenge the LIBERAL", minds posting on these boards, but please stop the "Cheney" ,b.It is because I say it is content. respectfully requested/submitted...taxman | ||||||
| 51 | Pancho Villa ID: 42220236 Wed, Mar 25, 2009, 09:03 |
Ask Britain. Ask France. Ask Malaysia. Ask Taiwan. And on and on. So don't take my word fror it I won't, but you did prove my point about being divorced from reality. Neither Britain, France, Malaysia nor Taiwan is destabilized, and in none of those countries has Soros bought up the remains for peanuts. But this is all a distraction from your claim that Soros funds Obama and Soros funds McCain. Republicans vote one way, Dems the other. But it's Soros who gets what he wants. When I asked what Soros wants, you replied that he destabilizes countries, then, as if it's evidence of the present(wants), supply info that is 15-20 years old. My link in #40 is from 2007. And if you research Soros and what he's been doing in the past, say, 8 years, you'll be hard-pressed to find the type of currency manipulation that was his modus operandi in the late 80s and early 90s. Yes, there are still governments that oppose current Soros tactics, such as: Tajikistan Rahmanov raised the issue at the Tajikistan Democrat People's Party convention, which was closed to the press. The text of the President's speech was published in Minbari People's Paper, and it claimed that the Soros Foundation supported subversive radio stations and newspapers... The Soros Foundation has also run into trouble in other Central Asian countries. In Kazakhistan, where it has been active since 1993, the foundation has accused the government of trying to interrupt its activities after investigations into alleged tax violations. In Uzbekistan, the foundation had its activities stopped in early 2004 on grounds of intervening with governmental policies, and its activities have also been blocked in Belarus. The New York-based Soros Foundation, which is active in 50 countries, supports the development of non-governmental organizations, democracy and better administration through education and other projects. Tajikistan, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan and Belarus. They're not claiming Soros is trying to destabilize their countries and buy up the remains for peanuts. These oppressive and totalitarian(to different degrees) governments are opposed to efforts to promote transparency in government. If you can show me, in 2009, or even in the recent past going back 5 years, which countries the Soros Foundation and the Open Society Institute has and is destabilizing and how it's being done, then post it. Of course, that would mean expanding your horizons beyond the right wing media rage and the associated tunnel vision. You might even find that you agree with elements of the OSI and admit that there are some grains of truth that Soros's philanthropic efforts have had positive effects in many areas. | ||||||
| 52 | Boldwin ID: 392192513 Wed, Mar 25, 2009, 16:05 |
You might even find that you agree with elements of the OSI and admit that there are some grains of truth that Soros's philanthropic efforts have had positive effects in many areas. Look in the mirror and read that. | ||||||
| 53 | Boldwin ID: 392192513 Wed, Mar 25, 2009, 16:15 |
you did prove my point about being divorced from reality. Neither Britain, France, Malaysia nor Taiwan is destabilized, and in none of those countries has Soros bought up the remains for peanuts. Soros is actually most known for being 'The Man Who Broke the Bank of England'. He made out like a bandit and you should well know that is a cold hard fact. France convicted him for illegal trading. You think he wasn't profiting? And he works for the most powerful person in France and probably the world, so you know the offense was excedingly blatant for him not to get away with it. Malaysia and Tiawan both claim he devastated their economies. Do I really have to dig for proof of something so well known? You think he did it out of benevolent selfless impulses? What in the **** are you smoking? | ||||||
| 54 | Pancho Villa ID: 42220236 Wed, Mar 25, 2009, 17:21 |
#53 This is why it's so pointless to engage you. You completely ignored everything I said in post #51, recycled the same decades old info that you've already posted numerous times, then crescendo with insulting me.So let me try one more time, and just answer the question without injecting You think he wasn't profiting? - Never inferred You think he did it out of benevolent selfless impulses? What in the **** are you smoking? - I'm asking the questions, pardner. Going back 5 years, please list which countries the Soros Foundation and the Open Society Institute has and is destabilizing and how it's being done, then post it. | ||||||
| 55 | Boldwin ID: 392192513 Wed, Mar 25, 2009, 17:59 |
Yeah, you decide to run me ragged, but the source is never acceptable and no source ever would be acceptable for you, I already posted it, but I should reread the whole thing for you and repost the relevant passages. You are being whipsawed by the power elite and you can do your own research and figure it out, if you really weren't complacent about it. Look what he did [with the gold market, if memory serves] upon German reunification. Look what he is doing in eastern europe. He is a one man wrecking ball. He is buying the next generation of influencial people in those countries and getting away with whatever he pleases with a controlled lapdog media which he has bought. He just sets them up like dominoes and knocks them down. He buys up key industries on the cheap after making them cheap by his maneuvers. | ||||||
| 56 | Tree ID: 61411921 Wed, Mar 25, 2009, 19:34 |
Yeah, you decide to run me ragged, but the source is never acceptable and no source ever would be acceptable for you, I already posted it, but I should reread the whole thing for you and repost the relevant passages. same old elusive argument. when someone challenges you with a specific answer, you refuse to answer and you claim you've already posted it. you don't give specific answers, because you don't deal in details. your currency is rumour, innuendo, misleading statements, and flat out lies. would it have been that hard to answer the specific question PV asked? i mean, if you actually had the answers... | ||||||
| 57 | Boldwin ID: 392192513 Wed, Mar 25, 2009, 22:00 | As if you have ever provided a useful post, Tree. | ||||||
| 58 | Tree ID: 61411921 Wed, Mar 25, 2009, 22:40 |
also typical of you. avoiding an answer to throw out an attack. how christian of you. | ||||||
| 59 | Pancho Villa ID: 02372521 Thu, Mar 26, 2009, 12:43 |
you decide to run me ragged, but the source is never acceptable and no source ever would be acceptable for you, I already posted it, but I should reread the whole thing for you and repost the relevant passages. Spare me the histrionics. Your sources in no way support your claims. When I asked who the people are whose money Soros manages that helped perpetrate the AIG meltdown, you responded with an article from 1996, an article you must have bookmarked, since you throw it out regularly when Soros comes up. Ironically, the author of that link, William Engdahl, has an article on this very subject from 3/18/09. Now, one would think that someone who has done such extensive research on the Rothschilds and Soros, someone you use a source, would offer support for the Rothschild/Soros perpetration of the AIG meltdown. Larry Summers is the man directly responsible for the mess. As Clinton Treasury Secretary from 1999-January 2001 he shaped and pushed the financial deregulation that unleashed the present crisis. He was Treasury Secretary after July 1999 when his boss, Robert Rubin left to become Vice Chairman of Citigroup, where Rubin went on to advance the colossal agenda of deregulated finance directly. As Treasury Secretary in 1999 Summers played a decisive role in pushing through the repeal of the Glass Steagall Act of 1933 that was instituted to guard against just the kind of banking abuses taxpayers now are having to bail out. Not only Glass-Steagall repeal. In 2000 Summers backed the Commodity Futures Modernization Act that incredibly mandated that financial derivatives, including in energy, could be traded between financial institutions completely without government oversight, ‘Over-the-Counter’ as in where the taxpayer is now being dragged. Credit default Swaps, at the center of the current storm, would not have been possible without Larry Summers and the Commodity Modernization Act of 2000. He is now the White House Economic Council chairman, mandated to find a solution to the crisis he helped make along with Tim Geithner, his friend who is Treasury chief. Foxes should never be asked to guard the henhouse. No mention of Rothschild or Soros. When I asked you to explain what you meant by Soros gets what he wants I didn't mean tell me stuff I already know, like what he did 10, 15 and 20 years ago. You completely missed the most egregious example of Soros' meddling in geopolitics in recent years, his role in Georgia's Rose Revolution. (you should love this anti-Semetic site, it's got a link that updates the Soros/Rothschild connection). Of course, conservatives don't like to bring up the Rose Revolution/Soros connection, because, with the exception of Pat Buchanan, conservatives were giddy about the new, democratic, Western allied Georgia. | ||||||
| 60 | Boldwin ID: 392192513 Fri, Mar 27, 2009, 05:37 |
Soros has been up to his hairline deep in every country in eastern europe ever since the purported breakup of the Soviet Union. The only difference between what he does there, and what he does everywhere else, is that he is doing it on a tabula rasa there and can do it far more effectively and cheaply. Conservatives on the whole don't have a clue what he is doing or about anything that is happening in eastern europe. There is a pretty complete media blackout of Africa and eastern europe, exactly why, I can only speculate. What little media coverage there is from eastern europe was almost certainly written by people in his mentoring and indoctrination 'Open Society' program. It's how you get placed in strategic position there. | ||||||
| 61 | Pancho Villa ID: 02372521 Fri, Mar 27, 2009, 10:38 |
Conservatives on the whole don't have a clue what he is doing or about anything that is happening in eastern europe. There is a pretty complete media blackout of Africa and eastern europe, exactly why, I can only speculate. What little media coverage there is from eastern europe was almost certainly written by people in his mentoring and indoctrination 'Open Society' program. It's how you get placed in strategic position there. A pretty complete media blackout? I'll actually agree that finding specific info on Soros Foundation and OSI programs and their effects in many countries is difficult to access. That, of course, doesn't make your speculations and accusations - Look what he is doing in eastern europe. He is a one man wrecking ball. any more credible. Most of the current accusations against Soros are made by bloggers with an agenda(see my 2nd link in #59), like this African Muslim's Bloody Diamonds in the Hands of Soros There's some interesting info here, but the author, like Baldwin, uses wide platitudes to tie Soros into his conspiracy -This movement is being openly cooperative with the cartels led by George Soros, a billionare drug smuggler (Brazil: George Soros wants to legalize drugs) -, as well as a not-so-subtle theme of anti-Semitism - OSI was established in 1993 by the Jewish Soros .......the capital of the companies under George Soros, the Jewish billionaire.....In partnership with other Israeli billionaires And it's really hard to give the piece credibility when it concludes: With this apparatus behind him, George Soros is doing to Africa what he did in his native Hungary in 1944, when he helped the Nazi occupiers in the extermination of the Jews. Still, it does offer some insight into Soros' activities in Africa. But as I pointed out, in Georgia, Belarus, Tajikistan, Kazakhstan as well as Kosovo, Soros' agenda is right in line with the same agenda outlined by conservative foreign policy pundits. And I'm having a hard time understanding how Soros' work in Albania fits with the claim Look what he is doing in eastern europe. He is a one man wrecking ball. Since its opening in 1992, the Soros Open Society Foundation has spent some $48 million on projects in Albania aimed at improving governance, reforming institutions, enhancing opportunities for youth and fostering a better environment for business development. Separately, Soros has earmarked $57 million for projects specifically for improving education in Albania. I know, I know. In Baldwin's world, $57 million for projects specifically for improving education in Albania, translates to brainwashing and indoctrination. There's no way any good could come from it. It's a shame when cynicism so clouds one's thought process that rational analysis is not an option. | ||||||
| 62 | Baldwin ID: 122332717 Fri, Mar 27, 2009, 20:18 |
He isn't making Albania or any other country more educated. He is hand selecting who he wants in charge by promoting them thru the system. | ||||||
| 63 | Baldwin ID: 122332717 Fri, Mar 27, 2009, 20:26 | Think of it as the anti-rhodes scholarships. | ||||||
| 64 | Razor ID: 53243617 Sat, Mar 28, 2009, 12:37 | Proof? | ||||||
| 65 | Pancho Villa ID: 20234289 Sat, Mar 28, 2009, 14:29 |
Baldwin doesn't need proof. He has pre-conceived notions that are set in stone. Much of what Soros has done in foreign countries is right in line with conservative foreign policy. Anti-communism positions, promotion of democracy(which Baldwin lately has demonized), transparency in government, and a free and diverse media. According to Baldwin, these are all smokescreens, and the real the real agenda is to instill leaders who are puppets to Soros's whims, which are never really explained, much less detailed. Exhibit A - He buys up key industries on the cheap after making them cheap by his maneuvers. A statement with not one bit of supporting information. Exhibit B - He isn't making Albania or any other country more educated. Again, a statement with no supporting information. It really doesn't matter if a person agrees or disagrees with Soros philanthropic work around the world. The real question is whether or not there are honest evaluations of what Soros is doing. Baldwin feels it's sufficient to make statements with no support, then use links that are 15-20 years old as evidence, but my concern is the present. The irony is that George Soros operates rather transparently. He constantly gives interviews and answers whatever questions are asked. His websites are on the internet for all to peruse. So, when Baldwin makes the idiotic claim that He isn't making Albania or any other country more educated. all one has to do is visit the grants, scholarships and fellowships page Call for Applications: Riga Graduate School of Law Scholarships March 19, 2009 The Riga Graduate School of Law announces scholarships for an LL.M degree with a specialization in public international law and human rights, funded by the Open Society Institute. Competitive and prestigious, the program is open to all persons who hold an undergraduate degree in law or a comparable degree such as political science or international relations, or will be awarded a degree prior to admission to the program. The 2009/10 scholars class starts on September 14, 2009. The purpose of these scholarships is to support students who have demonstrated academic excellence in law or a comparable field of study and have a demonstrated commitment to working in the field of public law, human rights, or public service. Eligible students must come from Russia, Byelorussia, Ukraine, South Eastern Europe, or Central Eurasia A demonstrated commitment to working in the field of public law, human rights, or public service. The horror!! Look what he's doing to Eastern Europe! So when Baldwin says, Conservatives on the whole don't have a clue what he is doing or about anything that is happening in eastern europe I would agree completely, as long as he includes himself in that mix. | ||||||
| 66 | Baldwin ID: 122332717 Sat, Mar 28, 2009, 16:24 |
Exhibit A - He buys up key industries on the cheap after making them cheap by his maneuvers. A statement with not one bit of supporting information. The proof is in links already provided. He bought up Poland's iron mills worth billions, for $30 million. Entirely as a result of his own government meddling. Exhibit B - He isn't making Albania or any other country more educated. Again, a statement with no supporting information. You simply need to watch what OSI does, not what it says. It is quite the same as Rhodes' scholarships. They aren't there to provide more scholars. They are there to identify the best and the brightest, mold them to your way of thinking and then place them where they will further your agenda. | ||||||
| 67 | bibA Leader ID: 261028117 Sat, Mar 28, 2009, 16:31 |
He bought up Poland's iron mills worth billions, for $30 million. Dang! Missed that one. Had I been aware of the situation, I would have gladly paid $35 million for iron mills worth billions. | ||||||
| 68 | Boldwin ID: 24528715 Thu, Jun 10, 2010, 05:26 | Philosophy for the masses. | ||||||
| 69 | Boldwin ID: 135311520 Thu, Jun 17, 2010, 04:48 | Philosophy happy hour | ||||||
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