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0 Subject: Living Together and Getting Sloppy

Posted by: Boldwin - [26451820] Thu, Jun 18, 2009, 13:32
Well the 700+ post 'Is there Really Liberal Media Bias' thread is too long and the question is settled.

ABC, too lazy to get out of bed, leave the WH and go to the office will now promote Obama's Healthcare plan from the WH blue room, sans any opposition message counterbalancing of course.

"Will Charles Gibson bother to take the curlers out"?

"Will he still be wearing the same stained and rumpled cotton robe"?

"Tune in tonite for ABC News".

1Building 7
      ID: 471052128
      Thu, Jun 18, 2009, 14:29 		Obama has admitted our country is broke. Couldn't this wait for a better time. Not that anytime would be good for this monstrosity.

2Boldwin
      ID: 26451820
      Thu, Jun 18, 2009, 14:44 		Have you ever once in your life said, 'If only I had VA healthcare'? Excepting veterans who are getting the run-around of course.
3Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Thu, Jun 18, 2009, 14:53 		Obama isn't proposing VA healthcare.

In fact, the latest whining from the opponents of Obama's plan is that the public option would force other insurance companies to drive down their rates to compete. You know--actually make health insurance affordable.

Apparently that is un-American to some.
4Boldwin
      ID: 26451820
      Thu, Jun 18, 2009, 15:27 		Sabotage the system and then claim marxism is the only solution.

The formula never changes.

5sarge33rd
      ID: 455391814
      Thu, Jun 18, 2009, 15:39 		how precisely is it marxist, or sabotage; to offer the general public the same plan as the senators and representatives have? Key words : "same" and "offer". IOW; if it's not marxist for Sen Grassley to have this coverage, how the hell is it marxist for me to have it? Secondly...If its offered and I decline...how the hell is that marxist or sabotage?

Get OFF your blind bias horse and Boldy and try, just try for a few minutes, to think for yourself instead of letting AC do it for you. She doesnt have sufficient brain power for herself, let alone 2 of you.
6Seattle Zen
      ID: 565581811
      Thu, Jun 18, 2009, 15:55 		and the question is settled.

I like this new way to concluding arguments, Baldy. Let me give it a try.

A single-payer, universal coverage medical system is the best and the question is settled.

Cool. /thread.
7Tree
      ID: 41371322
      Thu, Jun 18, 2009, 16:14 		oh! my turn!

All Republicans want to wipe their butts on the Constitution, and they dislike people with Muslim or Hispanic sounding names, and the question is settled.

oh! i like this! fun fun!
8Building 7
      ID: 9329258
      Thu, Jun 18, 2009, 18:53 		Liberals don't know what they're talking about, and this has long been settled.
9biliruben
      ID: 461142511
      Thu, Jun 18, 2009, 18:57 		I never talk in absolutes.
10Mith
      Dude
      ID: 01629107
      Thu, Jun 18, 2009, 18:58 		It seems many on the right don't know any other way.
11biliruben
      ID: 461142511
      Thu, Jun 18, 2009, 19:01 		Well that's true, but my statement was a joke.

Not very funny if I have to explain it.
12Mith
      Dude
      ID: 01629107
      Thu, Jun 18, 2009, 19:03 		No, it's funny. I'm slow.
13Boldwin
      ID: 26451820
      Thu, Jun 18, 2009, 22:57 		SZ

Yeah, when ABC actually moves into the WH and becomes the house propaganda organ, it's no longer debatable.

14nerveclinic
      Leader
      ID: 05047110
      Fri, Jun 19, 2009, 08:36
When I read the title to the thread, I had a completely different visual in my mind.

I was just hoping it didn't involve Baldy and the wife.

15Pancho Villa
      ID: 7515189
      Fri, Jun 19, 2009, 09:53 		From the link in the title:

That the media fix is in on health care is evident from ABC's response to a request from the Republican National Committee (RNC) that it be allowed to air opposing views. RNC Chief of Staff Ken McKay wrote to David Westin, president of ABC News, expressing his deep concern and disappointment with ABC's "astonishing decision to exclude opposing voices on this critical issue on June 24..." In addition to "World News Tonight" and the special, ABC will feature "reporting" on the Obama health care plan on all of its other news shows. No word yet on whether any opposing views will be allowed on those programs.

McKay wrote Westin, "In the absence of opposition, I am concerned this event will become a glorified infomercial to promote the Democrat agenda." Noting that the President "has stated time and time again that he wants a bipartisan debate," McKay wrote that "the Republican Party should be included in this primetime event, or the (Democratic National Committee) should pay for your airtime.

Interesting. Republicans, screaming from the top of their lungs that Democrats are committed to enforcing a "fairness doctrine," appear to be in favor of it in this case.

Also of interest is Thomas's claim that the media fix is in on health care. ABC(Disney Corp) is one media organization. It is not the media anymore than News Corp., Clear Channel or Time Warner are the media.

a glorified infomercial to promote the Democrat agenda

What are Sean Hannity, Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh and Laura Ingraham if not glorified infomercials to promote the Republican agenda?

16Myboyjack
      Dude
      ID: 014826271
      Fri, Jun 19, 2009, 14:42 		I liked post 9
17Boldwin
      ID: 26451820
      Fri, Jun 19, 2009, 18:26 		Is one cable news network really sufficient counterweight to ABC, NBC and CBS and half a dozen liberal cable news networks?

Since you don't even consider them real news how can you pose as if 'the news media' are giving equal coverage?

And the fairness doctrine is a total misnomer. They have zero intention of winding up with balanced media and you for sure know it.

18Boldwin
      ID: 26451820
      Fri, Jun 19, 2009, 18:30 		Oh, and Sarge, there is zero chance the country can afford the healthcare package the senators are getting, extended to the entire country.
19WiddleAvi
      Sustainer
      ID: 361032112
      Fri, Jun 19, 2009, 18:54 		Boldwin - I think a better question might be: is ABC, NBC, CBS and half a dozen liberal cable channels enough to counter FNC.
20Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Fri, Jun 19, 2009, 19:15 		I don't see anything by sarge that Baldwin is responding to.
21Pancho Villa
      ID: 7515189
      Fri, Jun 19, 2009, 19:28 		ABC, NBC, CBS and half a dozen liberal cable channels

ABC, NBC and CBS are primarily entertainment networks, which have a half hour nightly news which is mostly hard news sans commentary. The fact that you read liberal bias into every sentence is a product of your incredibly biased ideology. I doubt you've even seen much nightly network news in the past couple decades since you've convinced yourself they are at odds with your political views.

Now, what half dozen liberal cable channels are you talking about? Comedy Central has two political shows, Stewart and Colbert, which could be considered liberal, but that's a tiny portion of their programming. MSNBC has Olbermann and Maddow, but they also have Scarborough. But I'd concede they are more liberal than conservative.

You probably consider CNN liberal, but they have Lou Dobbs, and none of their other shows are nearly as opinion-based as that one.

CNBC is a business channel that leans more conservative than liberal.

ABC Family(Disney) on my system has mostly fluff(70's Show, Gilmore Girls) and the 700 Club, which basically calls Obama a terrorist traitor Muslim on a nightly basis.

Fox News is almost 100% conservative political commentary. Almost every large and middle market has at least one radio station that is 100% conservative commentary.

So when you ask me Is one cable news network really sufficient counterweight to ABC, NBC and CBS and half a dozen liberal cable news networks?

I can only reply, "WTF are you talking about?"



22Boldwin
      ID: 26451820
      Fri, Jun 19, 2009, 21:42 		If you honestly believe any cable news station other than FOX isn't a liberal bastion with the rarest of token conservatives allowed, then we really can't have a civil conversation about this. That is just ridiculous.
23Pancho Villa
      ID: 2656208
      Sat, Jun 20, 2009, 09:06 		#22

It's not what I honestly believe that's at issue here. I listed actual networks, shows and hosts, IOW factual information. That you summarily dismiss my factual information with a blanket statement that provides nothing to support your claim is ridiculous. Further claiming that we can't have a civil conversation on the subject is more an admission of inadequate support for your position than an indictment of anything I wrote.

You claim that there are a half dozen liberal cable channels. List them(half dozen=6). List the programming that shows they are bastions of liberalism.

Keep in mind that the rarest of token conservatives would be like overnight programming. Lou Dobbs and Larry Kudlow are evening primetime as is the 700 Club on ABC Family. Joe Scarborough is a morning show.

#22 indicates to me that you are adverse to having any of your claims challenged, that they should be taken as gospel. So you're right, that is just ridiculous.
24nerveclinic
      ID: 535522012
      Sat, Jun 20, 2009, 13:52

If you honestly believe any cable news station other than FOX isn't a liberal bastion with the rarest of token conservatives allowed, then we really can't have a civil conversation about this. That is just ridiculous.

Wait a minute, that's a trick statement, we can't have a civil conversation no matter what we believe about the media.

Anyway, It depends on your definition of "liberal". If you mean mainstream, centrist policies, then I do think there is a bias there. TV news though doesn't always or even often come down on clearly "liberal" issues.

I'll give you some examples.

Mainstream media, generally cuts any President slack at the start of a war, while a liberal is marching in the street.

Mainstream media, rarely comes out on the side of issues like legalizing drugs or prostitution.

Mainstream media, doesn't show much footage of American protests, like those at the start of the Iraq war, they showed a little but they down played it.

Mainstream media, pretty much tows the line on issues like 9/11 and whether there are unanswered questions. They keep the government line unquestioned, even when a Republican is in office.

So you know we can go on and on. I consider a true liberal to be someone who generally comes out against war from the start, they are often socialist and not afraid to admit it, they are often militant about unions, they want pot sold in stores etc. None of this describes the mainstream medias "slant" on issues.

So I can only guess you aren't really meaning liberal, your just using the term in the Rush Limbaugh sense, to deflect the debate from real issues.





25Boldwin
      ID: 26451820
      Sat, Jun 20, 2009, 18:06
“A few nights ago, I was up tossing and turning trying to figure exactly what to say. Finally, when I couldn’t get back to sleep, I rolled over and asked (NBC News anchor) Brian Williams what he thought,” Obama said. - Rueters Blog
So I'm wondering does each news anchor get his own bedroom, or do they all share a collective hareem? Ahh...there's your answer. With Obama always assume the collective.

Keep an eye out for fancy curtains with moslem tassels and designs, and beaded doorway separations at the next news conference.

26Razor
      ID: 385371019
      Sat, Jun 20, 2009, 18:10 		Serious about that one, Baldy?
27Boldwin
      ID: 26451820
      Sat, Jun 20, 2009, 18:12 		Ask Rueters.
28Boldwin
      ID: 26451820
      Sat, Jun 20, 2009, 18:13 		Razor

Go tell Tree how a human resources dept will look at Tree's various options if he takes them.

29Mith
      Dude
      ID: 01629107
      Sat, Jun 20, 2009, 22:12 		The hard right seemingly always resorts to ambiguous satire when they have no real evidence to present.

There's still a glaringly open, unmet challenge in post 23. What are lurkers left to assume?
30Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Sat, Jun 20, 2009, 23:03 		You're such a conservative buzzkill, MITH. Can't a guy dream?
31nerveclinic
      ID: 395592022
      Sat, Jun 20, 2009, 23:59
Actually it's nice to see any humor from the right, for the most part they seem like a humorless bunch. (Although Bush was a pretty funny guy I will give you that)
32Razor
      ID: 385371019
      Sun, Jun 21, 2009, 11:58 		The Right loves to joke - they love making jokes about blacks being monkeys and whatnot.
33Boldwin
      ID: 26451820
      Sun, Jun 21, 2009, 13:22 		The left is so intellectually weak that they have to invent straw men like that to knock down.

You just can't accept that the right loves their fellow man. I can't accept that you love your fellow man, when you support things that demonstratively don't work to anyone's benefit but the governments.

34Tree
      ID: 41371322
      Sun, Jun 21, 2009, 14:21 		The left is so intellectually weak...

wow...where did you pull this one from?

i mean, as usual, you've got a lot of facts to back up that statement.

After all, according to the US Census taking in 2007, of the top 20 states with people 25 Years and Over Who Have Completed a Bachelor's Degree only 15 of them - or a mere 75 percent, are states that have historically gone Blue over the last four presidential elections

and of course, the numbers for People 25 Years and Over Who Have Completed an Advanced Degree look even better for Blue States as 18 of the top 21 States (there was a statistical tie, hence top 21 instead of top 20), are again states that have historically gone Blue over the last four presidential elections.

You just can't accept that the right loves their fellow man.

would that be the same Right that rages against equality for homosexuals, minorities, and well, basic rights for all people?
35Boldwin
      ID: 26451820
      Sun, Jun 21, 2009, 16:37 		Refusing homosexuals religious dignity is not denying them anything that they are due.

What basic right does the right not want for people.

I say that as the left murders a million babies a year. And then lectures me about basic rights.

36Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Sun, Jun 21, 2009, 16:44 		Actually, denying certain religious groups from performing same-sex marriages is, indeed, denying them their due. Blanket same-sex marriage bans are, at their heart, intrusion by the government into religious matters.

I know you can't picture a stable same-sex relationship in your mind. But the beauty of this country is that the baseline is freedom of religions to operate without interference from government (or, in this case, other religions).
37Tree
      ID: 41371322
      Sun, Jun 21, 2009, 17:16 		Refusing homosexuals religious dignity is not denying them anything that they are due.

cute you ignored the statistic facts i posted about the other subject. when something can be substantiated, you usually run from it. then again, when you can't defeat the truth, you ignore it.

and i didn't say anything about religion. i want equality for all people. i want my gay friends to go down to City Hall, and get married, and i want them to have the same tax benefits of heterosexual married couples, and so on.

so, say it now then. "I, Baldwin, have no problem with homosexuals getting a legal wedding at City Hall, allowing them same financial and legal benefits of married heterosexual couples."

say it. i mean, unless, you you think the right loves some people less than others, because they're gay.
38Boldwin
      ID: 25282121
      Sun, Jun 21, 2009, 22:38 		I stated from day one here that a civil union with all the legal benefits was the best pragmatic deal conservatives were gonna be able to cut in this here culture war. But the most extreme gay groups are aiming Orwellian. They would never accept that deal. They really think they can enforce thot control. And they will be largely successful in that for a brief time. Until this system crashes and burns.
39Tree
      ID: 41371322
      Sun, Jun 21, 2009, 22:41 		But the most extreme gay groups...

and there you have it. when you apply "most extreme" and accept that as the norm, you're going to have a problem.

don't cater to the extreme. period. i would wager that the vast majority of those who want legal marriages for homosexuals aren't that interested in getting church weddings "legalized" as well...
40Boldwin
      ID: 25282121
      Sun, Jun 21, 2009, 23:09 		Who cares about norm? The point is what will happen, and what will not happen is civil unions as a compromise. Because the most extreme are out to destroy the culture, not co-exist.
41Tree
      ID: 41371322
      Sun, Jun 21, 2009, 23:31 		ecause the most extreme are out to destroy the culture, not co-exist.

sounds to me like you should be listening to your own words.
42sarge33rd
      ID: 185582122
      Sun, Jun 21, 2009, 23:58 		re #35:

What basic right does the right not want for people.

Freedom OF and FROM religion...

The right, was long ago subverted by fundamentalist Christianity. Those "my way or the highway" style of churches/denominations.

As further proof of my contention, I quote..YOU; from post 35:

Refusing homosexuals religious dignity is not denying them anything that they are due.


The right to a Fair Trial.

You convicted and would have gleefully executed, Schiavo's husband; all with no evidence. (as per courtroom type of evidence.
43Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Mon, Jun 22, 2009, 00:59 		Baldwin, a couple of years ago I'd have said you were exactly right. But before and after that, conservatives have taken a hard anti-compromise stance, and the ability of the voters to come to that stance (same-sex marriages as civil unions only) has been tossed aside as a result. Frankly, many moderate and liberal voters simply don't believe conservative voters, particularly the religious conservatives, would ever negotiate in good faith on the issue.

In fact on many issues over the years (women in the military, birth control, etc) the inability to compromise (partially reinforced by painting compromise of any sort on social issues as the same as a loss) has left conservatives behind in the dust.

At this point the states are taking it upon themselves allow same-sex marriages without conditions (some, like Vermont, inserting smart language reinforcing religious freedoms). When DOMA goes you'll see some islands of red state resistance, which will seem very silly in 10-12 years or so.
44Boldwin
      ID: 25282121
      Mon, Jun 22, 2009, 06:14 		sounds to me like you should be listening to your own words. - Tree

Spell it out.

46Mith
      Dude
      ID: 01629107
      Mon, Jun 22, 2009, 06:31 		Spell it out.

Duh.

But the most extreme gay Christian groups are aiming Orwellian. They would never accept that deal. They really think they can enforce thot control. And they will be largely successful in that for a brief time.

It's not surprising that you'd need help to see tree's most glaringly obvious point, since just a few posts earlier you explained that it was the gay community (possibly along with the NEA and secular humanists -- *boggle*) that is primarily responsible for thwarting what you and I agree is the fairest, simplest and most constitutionally sound solution.

The truth of course is that if I cared to, I could literally spend all day collecting hundreds, maybe thousands of quotes from prominant Christian leaders and spokespeople which explicitly reject the notion of government civil unions for all and leaving marriage to the religious organizations - either because they reject the notion of allowin gays the rights afforded by civil unions or because they demand that government continue it's role in sanctioning, performing and regulating the religious institution of marriage.

And the other side is that the overwhelming majority of quotes from gay rights activists which reject civil unions for all do so not out of the principle of demanding governmen-sanctioned marriage, but because they don't believe they could ever sell the idea of removing marriage from government to a majority political moderates - they think it would be an act of political suicide that would undo much of their progress.
47Boldwin
      ID: 25282121
      Mon, Jun 22, 2009, 15:06 		You just made that last paragraph up from whole cloth to order as needed.

They won't even accept a 'civil unions' as a stepping stone to getting gay marriage later.

They reject that compromise because the wave of cultural degradation appears unstopable and they are riding it high. Why compromise if you can have the whole hog now?
48Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Mon, Jun 22, 2009, 15:24 		Why compromise if you can have the whole hog now?

I don't see anything wrong with this statement. For anyone. Do you?

Of course, you believe gays to be living symbols of degradation, for which conservative Christians would never compromise themselves even when faced with the prospect of defeat on this issue. At this point gays would not accept the compromise, but they would have a few years ago.

Instead conservatives, drunk on what they perceived to be unlimited political power, tossed aside humility in their efforts to combat other Americans they perceive as being unworthy of God-given rights. So at the very point that conservative Christians could have achieved a political compromise they rejected the possibility since, at that time, they were in a position of strength. And true Christians never compromise--certainly not when they have the upper hand, right?
49Boldwin
      ID: 25282121
      Mon, Jun 22, 2009, 17:59 		You feel confident meeting our creator after calling gay marriage a 'God given right', do you?

There is a tragedy waiting to happen for you.
50Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Mon, Jun 22, 2009, 18:32 		All our rights are God-given, Baldwin. Even the ones you want to withhold from gays because the thought of anal male sex makes you feel icky.
51Boldwin
      ID: 25282121
      Mon, Jun 22, 2009, 18:53 		Tell it to Sodom and Gomorrah.
52Tree
      ID: 41371322
      Mon, Jun 22, 2009, 19:39 		lol. really??? really??
53nerveclinic
      ID: 315262315
      Tue, Jun 23, 2009, 16:26
You feel confident meeting our creator after calling gay marriage a 'God given right', do you?

If you could only understand how much this is straight out of a Saturday Night Live sketch for so many people.

Bring him on Baldwin, my God isn't a monkey.

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