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0 Subject: Should We Learn From Naziism

Posted by: Boldwin
- [59747224] Sat, Aug 22, 2009, 08:20

It has been suggested that when the memory of Naziism has been brought up, the discussion should be over or is over.

Nancy Pelosi called the enemies of socialized medicine Nazis.

The enemies of socialized medicine call the openings in the proposals similar to the Nazi's fledgling T4 program.

If those who forget history are bound to repeat those mistakes isn't that the last lesson we dare forget?

If it's ok for Pelosi to compare others to nazis, if liberals frequently compared Bush to nazis, how can they then demand others never bring the subject up?

Nazis For Me But Not For Thee

1Boldwin
      ID: 59747224
      Sat, Aug 22, 2009, 08:26
text
It’s this week’s fashion on the left, and among such fashionably contemplative moderates as Mort Kondracke, to blast Rush Limbaugh for comparing Democrats to the Nazis. It’s no surprise that the Obama hardcores are misrepresenting the sequence and substance of events, but I would have hoped that Kondracke would at least have noted that Rush’s comparison — even if Kondracke thought it unwise — was neither gratuitous nor demagogic.

To recap, the speaker of the House, Nancy Pelosi, started this episode by comparing American citizens who oppose Obamacare to the Nazis and asserting that her political opponents were donning “swastikas.” (Sen. Barbara Boxer simultaneously ripped Obamacare dissenters for their Brooks Brothers suits — it’s not altogether clear where on the twill the swastika goes.) Pelosi’s tactic was the shopworn smear we on the right have dealt with for six decades. There is no conceivable substantive connection between opposition to Obamacare and German National Socialism — they are antithetical. By invoking the Nazis, Pelosi was patently slandering dissenters as racist thugs.

Rush responded, and the response did not smear Democrats. He repeatedly and explicitly qualified that no one was saying Obama was Hitler, that Pelosi was Goebbels, or that the Democrats were engaged in the genocidal barbarity of the Third Reich. The comparison he drew was a substantive one: between the Democrats’ proposal for socialized medicine and the German installation of socialized medicine beginning with Bismarck and reaching its shocking apotheosis with Hitler’s National Socialism. (A transcript of what he actually contended is here, and his website has other relevant transcripts, since the argument was reiterated other times during the week.) The point was to show that if Pelosi wanted to engage in Nazi comparisons, the health-care policies of Nazi Germany had far more in common with the health-care policies of the Democrats than with those of the conservative opposition, which wants health care kept private and reforms to be market-based.

Whether you agree with that or not (I happen to think it’s undeniable), Rush was also making a larger point that is not only fair argument but essential argument. There is a trajectory of socialism, regardless of the good intentions of many socialists. As he framed it, you take things such as health care, things that are traditionally understood as within the ambit of individual liberty and free choice; you move such things into the ambit of state responsibility as the welfare state emerges and grows, on the theory that it is government’s responsibility to provide for everyone’s needs (by redistributing resources); as more things are moved from private to public control, the state by definition becomes totalitarian; and, inexorably, the totalitarian state gets bad leaders and the society comes to reflect the policy choices of those leaders.

Now, we can argue until the end of time about whether that trajectory really exists and whether it is inevitable. But however you come out, it is an argument very much worth having. It goes to what kind of society we are going to be, to what the proper relationship between the citizen and the state is.

Nazi Germany is a useful historical example of socialism run amok. The genocide and terrorism ultimately practiced by the Nazis were horrible — that goes without saying. But National Socialism went on for a dozen years, it was the last stage in a progressive nationalization of German society, and there was a lot more to it than genocide and terrorism. It cannot be that because there was genocide and terrorism, the socialist aspects of National Socialism are outside the lines of acceptable political discourse. Given the immense popularity of Jonah Goldberg’s Liberal Fascism, one of the most important political books of the last quarter-century, it doesn’t look like Americans are as convinced as Mort Kondracke seems to be that these comparisons are verboten Let’s put aside the Left’s propensity to slander conservatives with comparisons to Adolf Hitler, who was patently a man of the Left. Earlier this year, one New York Times writer seemed to find comparisons to National Socialism quite worthy when — at least in the telling — those comparisons worked in the Left’s favor. While Americans were hotly debating the merits of the Obama “stimulus” in April, the Wall Street Journal’s James Taranto called attention to a very interesting economic analysis offered by David Leonhardt. Leonhardt wrote:
In the summer of 1933, just as they will do on Thursday, heads of government and their finance ministers met in London to talk about a global economic crisis. They accomplished little and went home to battle the crisis in their own ways.

More than any other country, Germany — Nazi Germany — then set out on a serious stimulus program. The government built up the military, expanded the autobahn, put up stadiums for the 1936 Berlin Olympics and built monuments to the Nazi Party across Munich and Berlin.

The economic benefits of this vast works program never flowed to most workers, because fascism doesn’t look kindly on collective bargaining. But Germany did escape the Great Depression faster than other countries. Corporate profits boomed, and unemployment sank (and not because of slave labor, which didn’t become widespread until later). Harold James, an economic historian, says that the young liberal economists studying under John Maynard Keynes in the 1930s began to debate whether Hitler had solved unemployment.
After all due qualifiers about how terribly uncomfortable he felt about invoking lessons from the Nazis, Leonhardt somehow summoned the inner fortitude to make the obvious explicit:
Here in the United States, many people are understandably wondering whether the $800 billion stimulus program will make much of a difference. They want to know: Does stimulus work? Fortunately, this is one economic question that’s been answered pretty clearly in the last century. Yes, stimulus works.
As Taranto correctly observed, whatever you may think of the merits of Leonhardt’s argument, it was appropriate for him to make it: The wisdom vel non of policies adopted during over a decade of Nazi socialism cannot be off the table simply because, in the end, the Nazis were monsters. We may find the seeds of their monstrousness in those policies, or we may not. But the thought that we should not talk about them is absurd. Notably, Leonhardt’s piece ran without any teeth-gnashing from Mort Kondracke and our other Beltway chaperones.

National Socialism is banned from the Right’s case against socialism, but is somehow acceptable when leftists use it as a smear or when the Left’s nuanced geniuses, after their very thoughtful consideration, decide its invocation is suitable for mature audiences? I don’t think so.
2DWetzel at work
      ID: 49962710
      Sat, Aug 22, 2009, 10:58
New record time for the invocation of Godwin's Law, I must admit.

I won't dignify this with any other response except to note that clearly Boldwin thinks it's OK to compare people to Nazis.
3Boldwin
      ID: 59747224
      Sat, Aug 22, 2009, 11:10
I'm a lot more interested in watching trends and tactics than labels.
4DWetzel at work
      ID: 49962710
      Sat, Aug 22, 2009, 11:43
And yet you use the most provocative label possible as the header and the subject of your post.

Telling.

Why not be honest about it?
5Tree
      ID: 41371322
      Sat, Aug 22, 2009, 12:09
Baldwin doesn't have a honest or ethical bone in his body.
6Boldwin
      ID: 59747224
      Sat, Aug 22, 2009, 13:00
I did not label Obama or you for that matter a nazi.

I do believe we are watching the implimenting of a second nazi T4 program and holocaust. I am not meaning that as hyperbole.

That is a trend and those are tactics worth noting as they unfold.
7DWetzel at work
      ID: 49962710
      Sat, Aug 22, 2009, 13:25
So you think he's collaborating with Nazis (or Nazi-kin) then.

Come right out and say it, don't dance and backpedal. If you believe it, be a man about it and say it, otherwise shut the hell up.
8bibA
      ID: 227132213
      Sat, Aug 22, 2009, 14:13
It is plain that B is not saying Obama is a nazi. That would be hyperbole.

Baldwin is just saying that he is implementing a second nazi T4 program and holocaust.
9Boldwin
      ID: 59747224
      Sat, Aug 22, 2009, 14:17
Dwetz

The planned parenthood people are philosphical descendants of the americans sent by Margret Sanger who taught eugenic principles to Hitler.

The Hastings Center 'bioethics' 'experts' Ezekiel Emanuel and Peter Singer are pure evil nazis when it comes to respect for human life.

Obama's career long backers Nadhmi Auchi and Rashid Khalidi? If I were Isreal I would be very very very concerned.
10DWetzel at work
      ID: 49962710
      Sat, Aug 22, 2009, 14:19
"philosophical descendants"... riiiiiight.

Well, I was right, I should have just not dignified it any further. I will rectify my mistake now.

11biliruben
      Leader
      ID: 589301110
      Sat, Aug 22, 2009, 14:21
I recommend poetry.
12Boldwin
      ID: 59747224
      Sat, Aug 22, 2009, 14:23
Bili, I am getting concerned for you. When you start feeling lightweight like this, believe me when I tell you that you cannot fly. Avoid windows and high places.
13Boldwin
      ID: 26451820
      Sat, Aug 22, 2009, 15:19
You can legally commit suicide in Oregon, but Plaxico Burress gets 2 years prison time for accidentally shooting himself. The world is crazy.
14DWetzel at work
      ID: 49962710
      Sat, Aug 22, 2009, 15:57
Toting a gun in
a nightclub, unregistered
is not a smart move!
15Tree
      ID: 41371322
      Sat, Aug 22, 2009, 16:08
Common sense escapes
A man too foolish to think.
He is but a sheep.
16holt
      ID: 57322215
      Sat, Aug 22, 2009, 16:33
The "trajectory of socialism" is the first thing that comes to my mind every time more power is transferred to Washington.

It's frustrating because there are so many who don't seem to be aware of the concept in any shape or form.

Using health-care reform as an example, I think it's great to fix problems within the health-care industry. But, any attempt to convert health-care to another arm of the government (incrementally or all at once), I am absolutely opposed to. I don't need to see the number-crunching or any of the details.

Some people have amazing faith in current and future leaders. They assume that powers transferred to Washington will always be used more wisely and compassionately than if those powers were left in the hands of private citizens. I'm definitely not one of those people. I think we need to be ultra-careful any time we start talking about giving extra powers to the Government. Once you give Govt. a power, it's almost impossible to take it back.

The United States of America and the U.S. Government are two completely separate entities in my mind. It's up to the people to make sure the Govt. doesn't become a totalitarian state. You think it can never happen but it definitely can. One step at a time.
17bibA
      ID: 227132213
      Sat, Aug 22, 2009, 16:37
You can legally commit suicide in Oregon, but Plaxico Burress gets 2 years prison time for accidentally shooting himself. The world is crazy.

Well, just how much time do you think a person should get for committing suicide?
18Tree
      ID: 41371322
      Sat, Aug 22, 2009, 16:39
:oD

that got a legit LOL.
19Boldwin
      ID: 26451820
      Sat, Aug 22, 2009, 18:04
Holt

While I appreciate the company, the cause is lost on these people.

Put the phrases 'Eternal vigilance is the price of Freedom' and 'Trajectory of Socialism' out on the table and you'll come back to find these losers stenciling 'Trajectory of Socialism' on the train they are riding.

20Mattinglyinthehall
      ID: 37838313
      Sat, Aug 22, 2009, 18:28
Holt 16

Just so I'm following you - it's a good idea to fix the healthcare system - but it's a bad idea for the government to get involved?
21holt
      ID: 57322215
      Sat, Aug 22, 2009, 20:49
I didn't say the govt shouldn't be involved. There are probs that need to be fixed in a coordinated and forceful way. What I worry about is that in the attempt to fix the system, we'll actually be taking steps toward making the health-care industry another arm of the govt.
22Mattinglyinthehall
      ID: 37838313
      Sat, Aug 22, 2009, 21:39
Frankly Holt I cannot imagine a way for the US Government to involve itself in this problem without the "death panel" crowd finding it reason to shift the discussion to creeping socialism/communism (when it's not creeping fascism or creeping nazism).

It's not like the death panel crowd is offering any ideas of their own - aside from tort reform, which has been proven every way to Sunday would have little impact.

I respect your small government POV, really. But unless you're completly blind you also know that the government has done much positiove work over the years as well. There shouldn't be any reason to provide a list. In case you haven't noticed, this exclusive private industry system is failing us.
23Boldwin
      ID: 26451820
      Sat, Aug 22, 2009, 21:50
And the public sector part of it is bankrupting us.
24Razor
      ID: 14791320
      Sat, Aug 22, 2009, 23:10
The government caused the financial crisis? That's good news to all those bankers out there.

holt - the government is already "involved" in healthcare - Medicare, Medicaid and veterans' care, just to name a few.
25Boldwin
      ID: 26451820
      Sat, Aug 22, 2009, 23:20
What I said.
26DWetzel at work
      ID: 49962710
      Sun, Aug 23, 2009, 10:25
I would rather be
Poor than dead, but for wingnuts
that makes me Nazi!
27sarge33rd
      ID: 297152310
      Sun, Aug 23, 2009, 11:15
Let's assume Boldwin that you are correct in asserting it is "the public sector part" bankrupting us.

Then explain to me please, how it is that the number reason for the filings of personal bankruptcies over the past 10 years, has been and continues to be....catastrophic medical expenses?
28sarge33rd
      ID: 297152310
      Sun, Aug 23, 2009, 11:24
since you are going to ask for links and I can pretty much assume as much:

link

link article on the BK bill back in 2005

link

link

I'll post some more if youo feel the need for them
29Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Sun, Aug 23, 2009, 11:48
Actually, Nancy Pelosi didn't call anyone a Nazi. Never used the word, in fact. Rush Limbaugh, who never met a Democrat he didn't lie about, decided to put words into her mouth since what she actually said wasn't inflamatory enough:

"There are far more similarities between Nancy Pelosi and Adolph Hitler than between these people showing up at town halls to protest a Hitler-like policy."

When you start out with the premise that Obama is Hitler, then nothing you say after that is over-the-top for these people. Including on these boards. Nothing.
30Boldwin
      ID: 3779235
      Sun, Aug 23, 2009, 16:24
That was no doubt after she accused the protesters of carrying swastikas.
31biliruben
      Leader
      ID: 589301110
      Sun, Aug 23, 2009, 16:39
Because they are carrying swastikas. There have been photos right here on these boards of right-wing protesters carrying swastikas. Stating a fact is not calling them a nazi.
32Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Sun, Aug 23, 2009, 17:43
Stupid proof. Always getting in the way of a good "Nazi" Pelosi smear.
33Razor
      ID: 507101910
      Mon, Aug 24, 2009, 10:44
In a way, I actually feel sorry for Boldwin. Rush, Beck, Coulter and WND can say or publish whatever bullshit they want, but they don't have to respond to any of it. They hang up their microphones, collect their paychecks and call it a day. Meanwhile, the Boldwins of the world trot out this same propaganda on message boards like this one and then have to defend all the inaccuracies and falsities. It's a tough spot to be in.
34DWetzel at work
      ID: 49962710
      Mon, Aug 24, 2009, 11:09
Except he doesn't bother to defend it (in any rational way, at least), he just shifts to the next talking point of the day.

I do agree with your first sentence, but not for the reasons you discuss.
35Boldwin
      ID: 37522413
      Mon, Aug 24, 2009, 15:07
Bili

They are pointing out the nazi characteristics of Nancy's bill and getting called nazi themselves for warning about it.

Some people like Sarge and Tree will absorb the shock of finding out they really are living in nazi-land complete with a T4 program, without a shock to their system, because they will buy the government rationalizations hook line and sinker.

I really wonder how people like Bili will do with that shock however. Rocking back and forth reciting nursury rhymes judging by recent performance.
36biliruben
      ID: 461142511
      Mon, Aug 24, 2009, 15:15
They are pointing out the nazi characteristics of Nancy's bill and getting called nazi themselves for warning about it.

No.

They are not.

Pelosi knows and understands why they are carrying around Swastikas. All she did was point out that it's a bit wacko and not conducive to a reasonable conversation. She did not call the nazis. Just wackos.
37Boldwin
      ID: 37522413
      Mon, Aug 24, 2009, 16:12
Yeah, they are pointing out how nazi it is,



38biliruben
      ID: 461142511
      Mon, Aug 24, 2009, 16:14
As soon as you start drawing swastikas, you immediately lose your seat at the "reasonable debate" table. Or you should.
39Tree
      ID: 41371322
      Mon, Aug 24, 2009, 17:50
Some people like Sarge and Tree will absorb the shock of finding out they really are living in nazi-land complete with a T4 program, without a shock to their system, because they will buy the government rationalizations hook line and sinker.


i'm much more worried about loons like you picking up guns and shooting people they disagree with than i am about this country becoming anything even remotely "Nazi".

and there is a far greater liklihood of what i'm saying happening, than what you're saying is going to happen.
40Mith
      Dude
      ID: 01629107
      Wed, Sep 30, 2009, 08:09
Friedman:
I hate to write about this, but I have actually been to this play before and it is really disturbing.

I was in Israel interviewing Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin just before he was assassinated in 1995. We had a beer in his office. He needed one. I remember the ugly mood in Israel then — a mood in which extreme right-wing settlers and politicians were doing all they could to delegitimize Rabin, who was committed to trading land for peace as part of the Oslo accords. They questioned his authority. They accused him of treason. They created pictures depicting him as a Nazi SS officer, and they shouted death threats at rallies. His political opponents winked at it all.

And in so doing they created a poisonous political environment that was interpreted by one right-wing Jewish settler as a license to kill Rabin — he must have heard, “God will be on your side” — and so he did.

Others have already remarked on this analogy, but I want to add my voice because the parallels to Israel then and America today turn my stomach: I have no problem with any of the substantive criticism of President Obama from the right or left. But something very dangerous is happening. Criticism from the far right has begun tipping over into delegitimation and creating the same kind of climate here that existed in Israel on the eve of the Rabin assassination.

What kind of madness is it that someone would create a poll on Facebook asking respondents, “Should Obama be killed?” The choices were: “No, Maybe, Yes, and Yes if he cuts my health care.” The Secret Service is now investigating. I hope they put the jerk in jail and throw away the key because this is exactly what was being done to Rabin.

Even if you are not worried that someone might draw from these vitriolic attacks a license to try to hurt the president, you have to be worried about what is happening to American politics more broadly.

Our leaders, even the president, can no longer utter the word “we” with a straight face. There is no more “we” in American politics at a time when “we” have these huge problems — the deficit, the recession, health care, climate change and wars in Iraq and Afghanistan — that “we” can only manage, let alone fix, if there is a collective “we” at work.

Sometimes I wonder whether George H.W. Bush, president “41,” will be remembered as our last “legitimate” president. The right impeached Bill Clinton and hounded him from Day 1 with the bogus Whitewater “scandal.” George W. Bush was elected under a cloud because of the Florida voting mess, and his critics on the left never let him forget it.

And Mr. Obama is now having his legitimacy attacked by a concerted campaign from the right fringe. They are using everything from smears that he is a closet “socialist” to calling him a “liar” in the middle of a joint session of Congress to fabricating doubts about his birth in America and whether he is even a citizen. And these attacks are not just coming from the fringe. Now they come from Lou Dobbs on CNN and from members of the House of Representatives.

Again, hack away at the man’s policies and even his character all you want. I know politics is a tough business. But if we destroy the legitimacy of another president to lead or to pull the country together for what most Americans want most right now — nation-building at home — we are in serious trouble. We can’t go 24 years without a legitimate president — not without being swamped by the problems that we will end up postponing because we can’t address them rationally.

The American political system was, as the saying goes, “designed by geniuses so it could be run by idiots.” But a cocktail of political and technological trends have converged in the last decade that are making it possible for the idiots of all political stripes to overwhelm and paralyze the genius of our system.

Those factors are: the wild excess of money in politics; the gerrymandering of political districts, making them permanently Republican or Democratic and erasing the political middle; a 24/7 cable news cycle that makes all politics a daily battle of tactics that overwhelm strategic thinking; and a blogosphere that at its best enriches our debates, adding new checks on the establishment, and at its worst coarsens our debates to a whole new level, giving a new power to anonymous slanderers to send lies around the world. Finally, on top of it all, we now have a permanent presidential campaign that encourages all partisanship, all the time among our leading politicians.

I would argue that together these changes add up to a difference of degree that is a difference in kind — a different kind of American political scene that makes me wonder whether we can seriously discuss serious issues any longer and make decisions on the basis of the national interest.

We can’t change this overnight, but what we can change, and must change, is people crossing the line between criticizing the president and tacitly encouraging the unthinkable and the unforgivable.
41biliruben
      Leader
      ID: 589301110
      Wed, Sep 30, 2009, 09:12
Exactly.

Do we live in a civil society or don't we?


42Mith
      Dude
      ID: 01629107
      Wed, Sep 30, 2009, 09:41
Washington Monthly: Newsmax columnist John L. Perry encourages his right-wing readers not to "dismiss" the notion of an American military coup as "unrealistic."
America isn't the Third World. If a military coup does occur here it will be civilized. That it has never happened doesn't mean it wont [sic]. Describing what may be afoot is not to advocate it....

Imagine a bloodless coup to restore and defend the Constitution through an interim administration that would do the serious business of governing and defending the nation. Skilled, military-trained, nation-builders would replace accountability-challenged, radical-left commissars. Having bonded with his twin teleprompters, the president would be detailed for ceremonial speech-making.

Military intervention is what Obama's exponentially accelerating agenda for "fundamental change" toward a Marxist state is inviting upon America. A coup is not an ideal option, but Obama's radical ideal is not acceptable or reversible.
As of this writing, Newsmax has "scrubbed" (to use a term recently employed at this forum) the column from their site and the the URL for the Perry column just redirects to the Newsmax home page.
43Razor
      ID: 57854118
      Wed, Sep 30, 2009, 11:27
John L. Perry - advocate for treason. Put him on constant FBI surveillance. This guy is harboring anti-American sentiment that could be very dangerous. Better yet, send him to Gitmo.
44Mith
      Dude
      ID: 01629107
      Wed, Sep 30, 2009, 11:40
Full text of Perry's column. Excerpt:
So, if you are one of those observant military professionals, what do you do?

Wait until this president bungles into losing the war in Afghanistan, and Pakistan's arsenal of nuclear bombs falls into the hands of militant Islam?

Wait until Israel is forced to launch air strikes on Iran's nuclear-bomb plants, and the Middle East explodes, destabilizing or subjugating the Free World?

What happens if the generals Obama sent to win the Afghan war are told by this president (who now says, "I'm not interested in victory") that they will be denied troops they must have to win? Do they follow orders they cannot carry out, consistent with their oath of duty? Do they resign en masse?

Or do they soldier on, hoping the 2010 congressional elections will reverse the situation? Do they dare gamble the national survival on such political whims?

Anyone who imagines that those thoughts are not weighing heavily on the intellect and conscience of America's military leadership is lost in a fool's fog.
45DWetzel at work
      ID: 49962710
      Wed, Sep 30, 2009, 11:40
This is also particularly amusing.

"Jim Quinn tells U.S. troops: Obama "is gonna get you killed." Discussing rules of engagement in Afghanistan, Quinn stated on his radio show, "The only reason you put military anywhere is to win and win as quickly as you can, as ruthlessly as you can, because mercifully it will be over quick, instead of turning it into a meat grinder. I'm looking at -- guys, look, I love you all who go over there and serve, but I gotta tell you right now, run for your life, get out, this guy is gonna get you killed. Man, these people are scary." [Clear Channel's The War Room with Quinn & Rose, 9/29/09]"

So, uh, who exactly sent the troops over there eight years ago? And what precisely has changed (other than the political party of the president) to warrant this garbage?
46Perm Dude
      ID: 438132822
      Wed, Sep 30, 2009, 11:45
Revisionism at work.

Obama is getting the most heat for continuing the war in Afghanistan that Bush started. No word from the Right about the pullout from Iraq that they bitched and moaned about for over a year.

They have no soul.
47Mith
      Dude
      ID: 01629107
      Wed, Sep 30, 2009, 11:58
What amazes me is that every last question made by the left about the legitimacy of the Iraq war was called nothing short of treason by the hawkish right. We were told that in questioning the motive, legality and wisdom of the endeavor, we were directly (and often deliberately) undermining victory. Our patriotism was challenged. We were called anti-American.

Where are those standards today? How many "conservative" heads would have absolutely exploded in response to any liberal suggesting a US military coup or urging American enlisted men and women to "run for your life, get out, [your Commander In Chief] is gonna get you killed".
48Pancho Villa
      ID: 418233010
      Wed, Sep 30, 2009, 12:04
Do they dare gamble the national survival on such political whims?

National survival? It's incredible how these drama queens base their rhetoric on rampant, out of control emotionalism. This country needs a return to reality-based discussions. It's obvious the right wing has abandoned any pretense of being conservative by adopting talking points that used to be reserved for their radical fringes.

49Mith
      Dude
      ID: 01629107
      Wed, Sep 30, 2009, 12:27
In a statement sent to TPM, Newsmax spokeswoman Paula Pradines said that John L. Perry -- the columnist who claimed a military coup to "resolve the Obama problem" was increasingly possible -- is just an "unpaid blogger" for the magazine.

"He has no official relationship with Newsmax other than as an unpaid blogger," she said.

On his Newsmax bio page, Perry is described as someone who "contributes a regular column to Newsmax.com." On the site's "Blogs" page, he's listed alongside other contributors including Ben Stein, Grover Norquist and Christopher Ruddy, the owner and editor-in-chief on Newsmax.

He has also written a column nearly every week since late 1999.

Pradines said Newsmax pulled the column after several reader complaints "to insure that this article was not misinterpreted."

"Newsmax strongly believes in the principles of Constitutional government," she added, "and would never advocate or insinuate any suggestion of an activity that would undermine our democracy or democratic institutions."

Besides, Perry "clearly stated that he was not advocating such a scenario but simply describing one," she wrote.
50Mith
      Dude
      ID: 01629107
      Wed, Sep 30, 2009, 12:31
Josh Marshal:
Let me just add a little more on this. As you can see, the angle Newsmax is taking on this is to suggest that Perry doesn't really have anything to do with them, that he's just an "unpaid blogger." Now I think we all understand that there are many sites -- Kos, Redstate, even TPM -- where readers are allowed to set up their own blogs or diaries and write their own stuff. These are essentially discussion areas. And it's a cheap shot when someone finds some nutty diary on Kos and says DailyKos published such and such. Newsmax is claiming that that's what's happening here. But we've taken a close look. And I think it's clear that that is not true. Perry has written a weekly column for the site going back to at least 1999. And he's prominently listed on the bio page of all Newsmax columnists, along with Dick Morris, Dr. Laura, Grover Norquist, Lanny Davis, Michael Reagan, Rep. Ernest Istook, etc. (You can see the page we're referring to here); scroll down and look for the red arrow on the left.)
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Ignore line feeds? no (typical)   yes (for HTML table input)


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