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Subject: lockerbie_bomber_released
Posted by: rockafellerskank
- Dude [27652109] Wed, Aug 26, 2009, 22:55
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/2085433/lockerbie_bomber_released_on_humanitarian.html
Nothing in the Poli forum on this?
link
I know Baldwin, death panels, healthcare and AstroTurf are interesting, but, screw this guy... |
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| 71 | sarge33rd
ID: 17835119
Tue, Sep 01, 2009, 21:43
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66 is typical of your dodging lately B.
I asked how letting a terminally ill, aged man; go home to die in the very near future...how does that present ANY danger or risk to you? IOW, you AREN'T "turning the other cheek", not in any sense of the phrase; unless the man poses some risk to you.
How does he pose a risk to you, which he doesn't pose in prison?
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| 72 | Boldwin
ID: 07362823
Tue, Sep 01, 2009, 22:21
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Sarge
Oh, I thot you were in some inexplicable way trying your hand at Bible scholarship like all the rest of these guys.
I have no way of knowing if he is healthy enuff to reprise his mass murdering ways. I do know he doesn't deserve mercy.
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| 73 | Razor
ID: 14791320
Tue, Sep 01, 2009, 22:23
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He does deserve mercy. It's just that the mercy came in the form of him getting to serve a life sentence instead of being executed.
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| 74 | Boldwin
ID: 07362823
Tue, Sep 01, 2009, 22:30
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Operative word, *deserve*.
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| 75 | Building 7
ID: 43735169
Tue, Sep 01, 2009, 22:33
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He most likely didn't do it. This should be the story. What do you all know about the trial or the evidence. Just what you've been spoon fed by American Big Media as usual. This was going to come out in his appeal. They would not release him without his dropping the appeal.
$2m witness payment, bogus forensic evidence and Pentagon memo blaming Iran: How Lockerbie bomber appeal threatened Scottish justice
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| 76 | WiddleAvi
Sustainer
ID: 361032112
Tue, Sep 01, 2009, 22:59
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I completely disagree - He masde a choice to murder over 200 people. I don't care if it's his last day on earth. Part of his punishment if to die lonely with no friends or family to spend his last days with.
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| 77 | Tree
ID: 41371322
Tue, Sep 01, 2009, 23:59
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Why do you insist on completely misrepresenting me, PD?
i really couldn't be bothered to respond to you lately, but this got an audible Holy $hit from me.
PD, mis-representing you???
last i checked, you've misrepresented at least 4 people here, including completely fabricating things from at least two of us.
ok, back to pushing the mute button on you.
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| 78 | Boldwin
ID: 07362823
Wed, Sep 02, 2009, 00:04
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B7
And the welcome home was just welcoming back a falsely imprisoned man? That was what it looked like to you? Not being sarcastic, I'm as cynical as you but Occam's razor seems to apply.
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| 79 | Building 7
ID: 43735169
Wed, Sep 02, 2009, 00:14
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I missed the welcome home, but...yes. That article does not change your opinion of the story? Are you still convinced he is guilty?
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| 80 | Perm Dude
ID: 154552311
Wed, Sep 02, 2009, 00:24
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How the Libyans acted when he arrived was terrible, IMO. But our standards need to operate outside of that. Particularly Christian standards.
That whole 7 times 70 thing is turning out to be a real tough math problem for the fundies.
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| 81 | Boldwin
ID: 07362823
Wed, Sep 02, 2009, 00:30
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Sure, PD. The Bible recommends releasing all the imprisoned mass murderers of the world. Stop the world, let me get off, and you can have it your way.
No, God has no problem with executing unrepentent murderers.
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| 82 | Perm Dude
ID: 154552311
Wed, Sep 02, 2009, 00:46
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B7: I've been looking over some of those reports the last few days myself. Word is that he had a very good chance of having at least some of the conviction overturned.
To hear some on the wacky right, however, that doesn't appear to matter. For them, the way the Libyans acted when he got there is all that matters. Not whether they support the killing of a guy who doesn't seem to be guilty of the crime in the first place.
How far "Christians" have fallen.
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| 83 | Razor
ID: 14791320
Wed, Sep 02, 2009, 00:50
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And what happens if an innocent man is accidentally executed? Who does God blame? The lawyers? The warden? The governor? You?
Isn't God supposed to do the judging? What business does a human government attempting to mete out the ultimate judgment here on Earth?
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| 84 | Boldwin
ID: 07362823
Wed, Sep 02, 2009, 06:04
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Isn't God supposed to do the judging?
Yes, in the sense that that is the reason individuals are not allowed to take vengence.
Yes, God will ultimately be the judge.
What business does a human government attempting to mete out the ultimate judgment here on Earth?
No, that doesn't mean nations shouldn't execute the most dangerous and evil. The Bible expressly says that they do not wield the sword for nothing. As terrible as human governments are, they are still preferable to complete anarchy. Anarchy like just letting the criminals all run free in an anything goes society.
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| 85 | Boldwin
ID: 07362823
Wed, Sep 02, 2009, 06:08
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For them, the way the Libyans acted when he got there is all that matters. Not whether they support the killing of a guy who doesn't seem to be guilty of the crime in the first place. - PD
It matters because it is a pretty good indicator of whether the verdict was correct. If he really was guilty naturally he would get a hero's homecoming from the jihadists. If he was innocent he'd get the same welcome as some falsely imprisoned guy in Chicago who was exonerated and released years later. Not much.
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| 86 | sarge33rd
ID: 3781924
Wed, Sep 02, 2009, 06:10
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I think it would be an error B, to apply our social interactions as the norm to an entirely different culture.
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| 87 | Razor
ID: 507101910
Wed, Sep 02, 2009, 09:10
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Does the Bible explicitly state that human governments can execute prisoners? I don't know, I haven't read it. But I figured someone who has and who seeks to follow its teachings would know and be concerned about the absence of an explicit directive and would worry about the implications of trying to infer God's will on such a grave matter.
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| 88 | bibA
ID: 5283529
Wed, Sep 02, 2009, 10:36
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The welcome home is an indicator of innocence or guilt?
Well, maybe there is something to that. I still remember the welcome home William Calley received. Grand marshal in parades, given the keys to cities, treated like your all American hero.
Speaking of mass murderers, Calley was allowed to serve his time (3 1/2 yrs) under house arrest.
There sometimes seems to be a different standard when Americans commit evil acts such as murder or torture.
Haven't seen the movie yet, but I understand that the good guys (American G.I.s) in Tarantino's latest flick scalp Nazi soldiers in order to put fear into the enemy. Cool if the good guys do it.
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| 89 | Boldwin
ID: 07362823
Wed, Sep 02, 2009, 12:17
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Razor
Governments are only a temporary evil allowed to exist until God's kingdom comes, and something that functions so unsatisfactorily that they prove the necessity of God's kingdom.
They are allowed to execute the evildoer. [along with far too many innocent inevitably due to their imperfect human character]
The Jewish system set up By God almighty, featured executions.
Jesus is coming as King of Kings wielding a large sword and riding a white horse to execute the wicked who oppose God.
The world of Noah was judged as having turned so evil that their every thot was bad all the time and they were all executed.
You will not find any argument in the Bible for allowing evildoers free to carry on their evil forever. None whatsoever.
Infinite thanks to the one true, righteous and almighty God that this universe will not feature this current evil anarchy forever and ever.
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| 90 | Balrog
Dude
ID: 02856618
Wed, Sep 02, 2009, 12:24
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RE: 65 Boldwin
Because I wanted to demonstrate that you did not understand.
And yet you only demonstrated that you don't understand.
I gave you the benefit of the doubt and assumed you sought enlightenment. Now I have to agree with others that you are simply trolling, in a most blasphemous way in this case. You should be ashamed.
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| 91 | Boldwin
ID: 07362823
Wed, Sep 02, 2009, 14:00
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in a most blasphemous way in this case
That depends on whether you support the God of Noah, Abraham, Lot, King David, and the God and father of Jesus.
If you support some other god/s then yes, you would see that as blasphemous.
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| 92 | Razor
ID: 507101910
Wed, Sep 02, 2009, 14:11
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Jesus advocating the execution of prisoners is not even close to a consensus opinion among Christians.
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| 93 | biliruben
ID: 461142511
Wed, Sep 02, 2009, 15:02
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If you support the God of Executions it is, Razor.
Come on, Man. You gotta get current. Merciful Gods are so out of style.
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| 94 | Boldwin
ID: 07362823
Wed, Sep 02, 2009, 15:34
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It's all a balance. Mercy doesn't mean forever tolerating torture, genocide, evil.
If you want him to never execute the wicked then you will have to tolerate evil forever.
Mercy is allowing Adam's children to fill the earth instead of starting over.
Mercy is providing a path to reconciliation available to all people.
Mercy is showing people the road to salvation.
Mercy is warning people every time the net is closing around the wicked.
But for those who deliberately love evil and who will never change... Sooner or later those bad tenents get kicked out of the building before they burn it down to the ground.
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| 95 | CanadianHack
ID: 19856214
Wed, Sep 02, 2009, 15:56
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Baldwin is always busy advocating for his imaginary friends.
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| 96 | Boldwin
ID: 07362823
Wed, Sep 02, 2009, 16:18
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Some of my most energetic opponents believe fully. They just don't appreciate.
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| 97 | CanadianHack
ID: 19856214
Wed, Sep 02, 2009, 16:25
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Only you appreciate or understand your imaginary friends fully.
Any consistency between your imaginary friend and those of others is either due to similar indoctrination or pure coincidence.
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| 98 | DWetzel at work
ID: 49962710
Wed, Sep 02, 2009, 17:07
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All I know is that worshippers of Mystra would never have released that guy.
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| 99 | Tree, in Texas
ID: 41371322
Wed, Sep 02, 2009, 17:43
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Baldwin is always busy advocating for his imaginary friends.
terrorists do that too...
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| 100 | Boldwin
ID: 07362823
Wed, Sep 02, 2009, 18:52
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Everyone here will someday believe in Jehovah.
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| 101 | biliruben
ID: 461142511
Wed, Sep 02, 2009, 19:04
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That's some nasty shiznet to wish on someone.
I'll return the favor:
You will someday remember you are capable of independent thought.
I know.
Blasphemy.
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| 102 | Tree, in Texas
ID: 41371322
Wed, Sep 02, 2009, 19:28
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Everyone here will someday believe in Jehovah.
if that happens, it'll be because people like you will force it from the barrel of a gun.
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| 103 | Boldwin
ID: 07362823
Wed, Sep 02, 2009, 23:23
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No, in most cases it will be somewhere between the crash of society and when they see it raining brick sized hail.
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| 104 | biliruben's lawyer
Dude
ID: 014826271
Sun, Dec 20, 2009, 12:38
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Great piece by a local doctor in my paper today Delayed grief for a victim of Lockerbie tragedy
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| 105 | Nuclear Gophers
ID: 7115138
Sun, Jul 25, 2010, 15:32
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More interesting than the last garbage post PD put in "The Real Sarah Palin"
White House backed release of Lockerbie bomber Abdel Baset al-Megrahi Jason Allardyce and Tony Allen-Mills From: The Australian July 26, 2010 12:00AM Increase Text SizeDecrease Text SizePrintEmail Share
THE US government secretly advised Scottish ministers it would be "far preferable" to free the Lockerbie bomber than jail him in Libya.
Correspondence obtained by The Sunday Times reveals the Obama administration considered compassionate release more palatable than locking up Abdel Baset al-Megrahi in a Libyan prison.
The intervention, which has angered US relatives of those who died in the attack, was made by Richard LeBaron, deputy head of the US embassy in London, a week before Megrahi was freed in August last year on grounds that he had terminal cancer.
The document, acquired by a well-placed US source, threatens to undermine US President Barack Obama's claim last week that all Americans were "surprised, disappointed and angry" to learn of Megrahi's release.
Scottish ministers viewed the level of US resistance to compassionate release as "half-hearted" and a sign it would be accepted.
Start of sidebar. Skip to end of sidebar.
.End of sidebar. Return to start of sidebar.
The US has tried to keep the letter secret, refusing to give permission to the Scottish authorities to publish it on the grounds it would prevent future "frank and open communications" with other governments.
In the letter, sent on August 12 last year to Scottish First Minister Alex Salmond and justice officials, Mr LeBaron wrote that the US wanted Megrahi to remain imprisoned in view of the nature of the crime.
The note added: "Nevertheless, if Scottish authorities come to the conclusion that Megrahi must be released from Scottish custody, the US position is that conditional release on compassionate grounds would be a far preferable alternative to prisoner transfer, which we strongly oppose."
Mr LeBaron added that freeing the bomber and making him live in Scotland "would mitigate a number of the strong concerns we have expressed with regard to Megrahi's release".
The US administration lobbied the Scottish government more strongly against sending Megrahi home, under a prisoner transfer agreement signed by the British and Libyan governments, in a deal now known to have been linked to a pound stg. 550 million oil contract for BP.
It claimed this would flout a decade-old agreement between Britain and the US that anyone convicted of the bombing would serve their sentence in a Scottish prison. Megrahi was released by Scottish Justice Secretary Kenny MacAskill on the grounds that he had three months to live, making his sentence effectively spent.
The US Senate foreign relations committee launched a probe after The Sunday Times revealed this month that Megrahi's doctors thought he could live for another decade.
A source close to the Senate inquiry said: "The (LeBaron) letter is embarrassing for the US because it shows they were much less opposed to compassionate release than prisoner transfer."
Last week, a succession of British politicians - including Mr MacAskill, Mr Salmond and former justice secretary Jack Straw - delivered a diplomatic snub to the senators by refusing to fly across the Atlantic to answer questions at the Senate's hearing on Thursday (US time) about their role in Megrahi's release.
Despite the controversy over the Gulf of Mexico oil spill and Megrahi's release, it emerged over the weekend that BP is planning deep-water drilling off Libya.
And BP boss Tony Hayward is poised to quit this week when the company announces its half-year results, London's Sunday Telegraph reported.
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| 106 | Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Sun, Jul 25, 2010, 16:25
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Which garbage post would that be, NG?
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| 107 | Nuclear Gophers
ID: 7115138
Sun, Jul 25, 2010, 18:41
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Now I am surprised, disappointed, and angry that the white house backed the release of this scum bag.
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| 108 | Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 37838313
Sun, Jul 25, 2010, 18:52
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How sad to be so easily surprised, disappointed, and even angry as to so react to a figment his own imagination, invented after reading a story which maked no such case, whatsoever.
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| 109 | Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 37838313
Sun, Jul 25, 2010, 18:55
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Honest conservatives like the fearless Connor Friedersdorf are a sadly rare breed these days.
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| 110 | Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Sun, Jul 25, 2010, 20:56
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No response to #106, NG?
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| 111 | J-Bar
ID: 516312619
Mon, Jul 26, 2010, 20:50
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Let me help NG since PD wants to play dumb. Last would mean LAST which was a bs link to an article in reference to her use of "refudiate" which according to this 'Refute is sometimes used to mean 'deny or contradict without argument or proof' (although many people think this is wrong), and in this sense it can be confused with repudiate, which means to reject the authority or validity of something: He repudiated the accusation (because it was invalid, there was no evidence for it). Repudiate can also mean 'refuse to have anything to do with something': She repudiated all our offers of help. In this meaning it overlaps with rebuff, but usually refers to the offers rather than the person making them.' This can explain the tongue tie of which word to use (which i am sure no one else has ever done).
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| 112 | Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Mon, Jul 26, 2010, 21:56
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A piece by a comedian getting your panties in a twist?
Here's the thing: She used the wrong word. Then laughed it off in a kind of apology for getting it wrong.
So she was wrong the first time or the second time. Take your pick. You seem to be leaping to her defense (which is kind of silly, but it is your choice I suppose). But leaping to the defense of Palin's use of language is a very slippery place for you to be standing.
Perhaps it might be better for her to take her own lumps (or not)?
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| 113 | J-Bar
ID: 516312619
Mon, Jul 26, 2010, 22:23
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No defense for her just the incessant barrage of your ilk to make mountains out of mole hills to try and discredit people. I am not even a big fan of hers. You were the one pushing for an answer so i assume you were proud of your post and that you posted because it represented your view. Maybe you posted it for the sheer entertainment value. If that is the case then I apologize and I laugh with you haha.
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| 114 | Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Tue, Jul 27, 2010, 00:47
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I asked which post he was referring to, and you somehow took it personally enough to respond yourself?
The post I made last in that thread was clearly a humor one (Andy Borowitz is a topical humorist). It wasn't clear (since he never responded) if that is the "garbage" past in question, so I asked him to made his objection clear.
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| 115 | J-Bar
ID: 516312619
Tue, Jul 27, 2010, 01:51
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Nothing personal, you just seemed slighted that you didn't get clarification of which "garbage" post so i thought i would give my opinion since it seemed blatantly obvious but hey whatever.
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| 116 | Tree
ID: 248472317
Tue, Jul 27, 2010, 10:16
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No defense for her just the incessant barrage of your ilk to make mountains out of mole hills...
personally, i'd prefer my President be moderately literate, and not constantly butcher the english language and invent words.
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| 117 | J-Bar
ID: 516312619
Tue, Jul 27, 2010, 18:52
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like 57 states
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| 118 | Tree
ID: 248472317
Tue, Jul 27, 2010, 19:49
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because, of course, there's no difference between a verbal slip up such as the one Obama made (saying 57 states instead of 47), and completely inventing words one more than one occasion, as Palin does.
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| 119 | J-Bar
ID: 516312619
Tue, Jul 27, 2010, 21:11
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LMAO
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| 120 | Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Wed, Jul 28, 2010, 12:34
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In reply to 105: Some more context for that letter (follow the links)
Chance that Drudge, et al will issue a correction is about nil. But worth a cleanup in aisle "Right Wing" anyway.
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