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Subject: Shooting at Ft. Hood
Posted by: Tree
- [248472317] Thu, Nov 05, 2009, 17:30
At least 12 dead, 31 injured...
this is nuts. early reports are that there were 3 shooters, one of whom was killed, that they used handguns, and that all are long-term military men, including at least one 39-year old major. |
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| 290 | Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Tue, Dec 08, 2009, 20:39
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You should really check out the stories more thoroughly, Baldwin.
If it sounds too good to be true...well, you know the rest. Something about one born every minute of something.
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| 291 | Bauxman
ID: 2110171217
Tue, Dec 08, 2009, 20:45
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Moslems and liberals have the same goal: destroy the American way of life. They just go about it in different ways. Kindred spirits like a ying and yang. No surprise the liberals here don't stand against the Moslems.
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| 292 | DWetzel
ID: 33337117
Tue, Dec 08, 2009, 20:51
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Go troll somewhere else.
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| 293 | Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Tue, Dec 08, 2009, 21:03
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Does #291 have some sort of context?
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| 294 | Tree
ID: 248472317
Tue, Dec 08, 2009, 21:27
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Does #291 have some sort of context?
no more so than some of his previous bigoted and anti-semitic statements.
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| 295 | Boldwin
ID: 26451820
Wed, Dec 09, 2009, 06:47
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I watched that entire interview and he does not counter anything in the WND article except the claim that they were dancing and he admmitted he couldn't see everything from his vantage point. He points out that it was an organized disruption with leaders. He points out that it was far and away the most tense and scary thing he's ever experienced in 20+ years of flying professionally. He agrees with everything I have said in this thread, and explicitly says that as someone who has to deal with security issues professionally, he [and we] has to figure out how to [7:39 in the interview] deal with the way PC jeaprodizes our security. The only thing he stomps on is the claim that some passenger acted the hero. Something I didn't read in the WND article but which apparently some passenger privately put on his own internet social network site. To act like Muckrakers disproved with this that 'dry runs' happen or that this was a 'dry run' is a mischaracterization.
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| 296 | Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Wed, Dec 09, 2009, 11:20
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He was so far away, he wasn't even on the flight.
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| 297 | Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Wed, Dec 09, 2009, 11:24
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Also, the characterization that this was a dry run came from Petruna himself.
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| 298 | sarge33rd
ID: 251125910
Wed, Dec 09, 2009, 11:34
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To act like Muckrakers disproved with this that 'dry runs' happen or that this was a 'dry run' is a mischaracterization.
No, to claim that:
I watched that entire interview and he does not counter anything in the WND article except the claim that they were dancing and he admmitted he couldn't see everything from his vantage point.
When he WAS NOT ON THE PLANE, is the mischarcterization.
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| 299 | Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Wed, Dec 09, 2009, 11:43
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he does not counter anything in the WND article
That wasn't really the point. This is like claiming, as evidence, that a guy isn't contradicting himself between something he said and something he wrote. Nobody is making the claim that the WND article and Petruna aren't saying the same thing.
Corroborative evidence, however, is evidence backed up by other sources.
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| 300 | Bauxman
ID: 2112911
Wed, Dec 09, 2009, 12:02
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So you guys think this whole story is fabricated with no basis of truth?
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| 301 | Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Wed, Dec 09, 2009, 13:13
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For myself, I think there was a disagreement on that plane (as detailed in the link from #290), which interviews someone actually on the plane telling what they saw.
The rest is bunk, made up by someone who wasn't there but who made himself out to be a hero.
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| 302 | Bauxman
ID: 2112911
Wed, Dec 09, 2009, 13:46
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Why do you suppose all those people were scared to continue flying on that plane then?
Being in an airplace nowadays requires social behavior. Kinda like church. For people to act out like those Moslems did, especially after 9/11, warrants every bit of skepticism that normal people who haven't succumbed to the PC police yet can muster.
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| 303 | Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Wed, Dec 09, 2009, 14:24
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I'm not a mind reader, unlike you. Why would someone decide to take another plane after a 2.5 hour delay? There could be a lot of reasons, unlike "being scared" over an incident which did not, in fact, occur as the "eyewitness" (who wasn't there) says.
Here's the airline's statement, which pokes big holes in the story you believe.
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| 305 | bibA
ID: 3510191216
Wed, Dec 09, 2009, 15:29
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I'll tell you what I have learned from this incident - It is obvious that AirTran, TSA, the FAA, the Dallas News, and TPM are all involved in a conspiracy to allow terrorist Muslims to make dry runs in order to ultimately continue jihad.
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| 306 | Tree
ID: 248472317
Wed, Dec 09, 2009, 15:35
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from the WND article:
The employee described how three "Middle Eastern" men boarded a plane and loaded enough carryon luggage into an overhead bin to fill it at Row 4, even though they were sitting in the rear of the craft.
Then they rearranged their seats so they all wound up in an exit row on the jet.
The men laughed during the safety briefing and spoke Arabic, spending a long time "leaning into the aisle … and looking directly at the cockpit and at us in a menacing way."
with the exception of the "menacing" looks, which is entirely subjective, i'm not really seeing anything unusual about any of the above behaviour.
1. I have traveled extensively. I rarely check luggage, whichs means i'm carrying on a suitcase, and a bag with my laptop, something to read, and some snacks.
I prefer to sit in the middle, towards the rear of the plane, so i'm in one of the first groups to board. I usually stash the suitcase i won't be using in an overhead bin toward the front, just in case there isn't room overhead in the back where im sitting.
2. i can't count the number of times on a flight i've watched friends and families try to re-arrange with other passengers so they can all sit together. i never even once gave that activity a second thougt.
3. I have seen several instances where obvious non-Muslims refused to turn off their cell phones, engaging in tense conversations with flight attendants and fellow passengers.
I suppose on hindsight, I should have viewed this as a dry run for some sort of Christian Militia hijacking, or perhaps maybe an Agnostic Army attack. I'm sure they weren't Jews though, because they didn't have big bushy beards with money literally falling out of them, nor did they have big gigantic noses.
btw, Snopes chimes in...
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| 307 | Bauxman
ID: 2110171217
Thu, Dec 10, 2009, 07:32
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1. I have traveled extensively. I rarely check luggage, whichs means i'm carrying on a suitcase, and a bag with my laptop, something to read, and some snacks.
I prefer to sit in the middle, towards the rear of the plane, so i'm in one of the first groups to board. I usually stash the suitcase i won't be using in an overhead bin toward the front, just in case there isn't room overhead in the back where im sitting.
So you really ARE a pain in the ass!
You carry more travel bags than a woman and then you clog up the overhead compartment for an area that you don't even sit in; probably forcing some guy up front to put a bag further back in the plane and clogging up the whole works.
On another topic, I can no more fault somebody feeeeeeeling suspicious of Moslems on airplanes that are being inappropriate than I could for an Alaskan camper feeeeeeeling suspicious of the grizzly bear that just walked in to his campsite.
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| 308 | sarge33rd
ID: 51146106
Thu, Dec 10, 2009, 07:46
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Come on Baux. Even you have to admit, that comparative is over the top.
Why were people nervous about continuing on the flight?....Because they saw some sort of disruption, and heard a language they don't understand, and the relatively recent news lends credence to these fears, and the rightwing spin machine has indeed done an admirable job of casting ALL persons of Middle East appearance as Muslim terrorists bent on the destruction of our way of life. (Middle Eastern appearance FTR, might include one with classic Greek looks, or even Italian, Indian, etc etc)
The willingness of people to pre-judge, absent of factual data, is one of our species greatest weaknesses. We all hold various bias; but can control how we exhibit those bias. That you would compare a possibly totally innocent traveler to a grizzly bear entering ones camp sight; clearly shows how you choose to view those of the Muslim world.
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| 309 | Boldwin
ID: 61136107
Thu, Dec 10, 2009, 08:36
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So you really ARE a pain in the ass!
You really ARE quick on the uptake, Box. 8]
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| 310 | Tree
ID: 248472317
Thu, Dec 10, 2009, 09:07
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You carry more travel bags than a woman and then you clog up the overhead compartment for an area that you don't even sit in; probably forcing some guy up front to put a bag further back in the plane and clogging up the whole works.
add sexist to the list of your charming traits.
I'm sorry. I didn't realize one small suitcase one laptop bag made for an extraordinarily large amount of luggage. in fact, compared to most of the people on the flights i'm on, i've got a lot less. usually, it's businessmen, trying to sneak on an oversize suitcase, a laptop bag, a garment bag, and some other piece of luggage carrying the most onto a plane.
also, it's the luggage areas in the back of the plane that are often more filled than the front of the plane. Flight attendants will often tell you that if you're not planning to access your bag during the flight, stash it in any overhead on your way to your seat.
the rest of your post isn't really worth addressing, as it's more of the same from you.
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| 311 | Pancho Villa
ID: 381047158
Thu, Dec 10, 2009, 09:41
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It's important to establish that anyone, be they Muslim, black, native American, Mongolian, etc., who is disruptive on a flight is subject to arrest.
CAIR would be more prudent and more responsible to advise Arabs and other Middle Eastern nationalities to adhere strictly to all rules, regulations and generally proper behavior while flying in this country in the aftermath of 9/11.
Similar to the way the NAACP or the gay/lesbian/ transgender lobby are poised to scream discrimination at the drop of a hat, CAIR creates more problems than they solve.
Exhibit A - Moslems and liberals have the same goal: destroy the American way of life.
Discounting that Bauxman's American way of life(perpetually angry, bitter, judgemental and discriminatory)isn't representative of this country's values, neither should we jeopardize our security at the risk of offending any group's sensibilities. But neither should anyone's rights be denied based on their skin color or apparent heritage.
There are thousands of flights in this country every day. Just yesterday I flew from Salt Lake to Phoenix and back in the same day. It should be obvious to anyone with an objective mind that incidents like these are extremly rare and not representative of the thousands of Muslims who fly in this country every day.
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| 312 | Bauxman
ID: 2110171217
Thu, Dec 10, 2009, 14:10
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Come on Baux. Even you have to admit, that comparative is over the top.
Its a survival skill. Flight or fight much?
3,000 people die because goofy Moslems hijacked planes on 9/11. So now when people act freaked out when Moslems act goofy on flights are bigots? No, its self preservation. No different than why you shouldn't jump into the ocean coated in raw meat and cow's blood or why you don't go camping in the Alaskan wilderness without a gun.
Why were people nervous about continuing on the flight?....Because they saw some sort of disruption, and heard a language they don't understand, and the relatively recent news lends credence to these fears
Well it is kinda hard to survive any serious incident at 30,000 feet in the air so yeah I can see where they were nervous.
The willingness of people to pre-judge, absent of factual data, is one of our species greatest weaknesses.
OK Spock, the greatest weakness of our species. "Why are you swimming away? The shark hasn't opened its mouth up....yet."
I didn't realize one small suitcase one laptop bag made for an extraordinarily large amount of luggage.
And don't forget the makeup case, and manpurse you were talking about in the other post too Twinkletoes. You carry luggage like Princess Vespa from Spaceballs.
in fact, compared to most of the people on the flights i'm on, i've got a lot less. usually, it's businessmen, trying to sneak on an oversize suitcase, a laptop bag, a garment bag, and some other piece of luggage carrying the most onto a plane.
You're stereotyping you bigot. How do you know they are businessmen? Did you go up to each one and ask them?
I work with a ton of road warriors and none of them pack their bags like femmes. Quite the contrary, when you're on the road for business you should have your stuff in one bag on wheels so that when your last meeting is over you can get on the nearest shuttle or taxi to the airport to make your flight.
Ever fly on one of those small American Airlines planes that is three seats wide in total? You would be a class A moron to bring all that geer. You bring one bag, bring it to the plane, they put it in the cargo area and then they hand you the bag when you get off the plane and you're off and running.
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| 313 | Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Thu, Dec 10, 2009, 14:12
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Did they, in fact, "act goofy?" You really have no idea, but you're willing to use a fictional narrative as the basis of policy.
Isn't the big knock on "liberals" that their ideas and policies are not grounded in reality? You've turned into one, it seems.
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| 314 | Tree
ID: 248472317
Thu, Dec 10, 2009, 14:23
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PD, i need to again follow your suggestion from a few weeks ago, one that several of us took.
it might make this place palatable again.
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| 315 | Bauxman
ID: 2110171217
Thu, Dec 10, 2009, 14:55
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The general rule stands Perm Dude that if they were acting suspiciously that you should act in the best interests of yourself and those with you on that plane.
PD, i need to again follow your suggestion from a few weeks ago, one that several of us took.
It would be a Christmas Miracle on the scale of Tiny Tim if you left these boards. EVERYBODY'S posting quality would go much higher.
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| 316 | Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Thu, Dec 10, 2009, 15:12
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They weren't acting suspiciously. That's the whole point. Your posting on this topic substitutes real eyewitness accounts with your "Right PC" assumptions in order for you to utilize the flamethrower of righteous anger.
When misdirected, however, such mostly makes you look silly at best.
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| 317 | Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Sat, Dec 12, 2009, 10:23
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#314: Time for me, at least, to renew things. I'm going to try for seven days, starting today.
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| 318 | Tree
ID: 248472317
Sat, Dec 12, 2009, 12:47
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#317 - i'm more of a Sunday starts the week kinda guy, so i'm shooting for tomorrow.
besides, between football and watching my girl's roller derby practice tomorrow night, i'll be distracted much of the day.
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| 319 | Boldwin
ID: 26451820
Tue, Dec 15, 2009, 09:38
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Muslims also have an expression, "After Saturday comes Sunday". It refers to their planned order of execution.
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| 320 | Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Tue, Dec 15, 2009, 09:54
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Fundy tea-partiers say "Next Time We'll Be Armed." Hmmm.
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| 321 | Boldwin
ID: 26451820
Wed, Dec 16, 2009, 08:39
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And there you have it stark, simple and plain. The marxist/globalist will use muslim violence as their excuse to disarm everyone.
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| 322 | Boldwin
ID: 26451820
Wed, Dec 16, 2009, 08:57
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And they won't stop at removing the gun, they will insist on removing religion and freedom of thot.
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| 323 | Tree
ID: 248472317
Wed, Dec 16, 2009, 10:07
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The marxist/globalist will use muslim violence as their excuse to disarm everyone.
and the bigot/religious zealout will use violence by a minority to condemn the majority.
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| 324 | Bauxman
ID: 161131169
Wed, Dec 16, 2009, 10:31
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Given Tree's heritage you would think he'd understand the need for people to have independent powers (like gun ownership) from their government. Tree hasn't learned anything from history. In fact, Tree hasn't learned anything period.
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| 325 | Pancho Villa
ID: 29118157
Wed, Dec 16, 2009, 10:39
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Where has Tree advocated against gun ownership?
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| 326 | DWetzel
ID: 278201415
Wed, Dec 16, 2009, 11:06
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Re: 322 -- LOL, as opposed to you and your loony cohorts, who only want to remove the religions you don't like--which is clearly better.
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| 327 | Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Wed, Dec 16, 2009, 11:27
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There's no better example of "freedom of thought" than the current GOP, is there?
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| 328 | Tree
ID: 248472317
Wed, Dec 16, 2009, 11:42
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Given Tree's heritage you would think he'd understand the need for people to have independent powers (like gun ownership) from their government.
LOL. what??? is there something that i said in this thread where i proclaimed my feelings on gun ownership?
instead of pulling something out of my butt and guessing my feelings on various topics, including gun ownership, why don't you ask me my feelings on it?
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| 329 | Bauxman
ID: 381121611
Wed, Dec 16, 2009, 12:02
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I haven't pulled anything from your butt and I do not want to be included in your homo erotic fantasies. This is not San Francisco the city you are so fond of.
Now with that out of the way, you voted for anti gun marxists in the last election. So yes you are anti gun or don't care about the issue. Have fun in Texas where even the unborn lives (whom you insultingly call a fetus) are allowed to conceal and carry.
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| 330 | DWetzel
ID: 278201415
Wed, Dec 16, 2009, 12:08
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Only to the loonies is the term "fetus", which is scientifically and biologically correct, an insult.
Of course, we know that science doesn't matter to them, but now it's actually insulting. Awesome.
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| 331 | Tree
ID: 248472317
Wed, Dec 16, 2009, 12:25
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i wonder how many pro-death penalty politicians Bauxman voted for in his life, despite proclaiming his disdain for the Death Penalty. You must be pro-death penalty, based on your (presumed) voting record.
I'm not a one-issue voter, and if i were, gun ownership rights are nowhere near the top of my list.
that being said, i believe that law-abiding citizens have the right to own guns. I just believe what types of guns can be owned need to be more limited, and i believe there need to be tighter restrictions on the gun-purchasing process.
As for the politics here in Ft. Worth, I've been pleasantly surprised by the sheer number of people who went Democrat in the last election. In fact, nearly 44 percent of Texas residents voted for Obama. Considering its location and reputation, that's not too shabby.
anyway, as long as draw conclusions without looking at details or asking questions (and while ignoring your own hypocrisy including things like my death penalty above), it's impossible to have any sort of real, sensible conversation with you.
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| 332 | DWetzel
ID: 278201415
Wed, Dec 16, 2009, 12:36
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That's about five paragraphs too long--if you'd just used the last 12 words you would have been just fine.
It's the thought that counts, I guess.
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| 333 | Bauxman
ID: 161131169
Wed, Dec 16, 2009, 13:17
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That's about five paragraphs too long--if you'd just used the last 12 words you would have been just fine.
Because its authored by the Grade A USDA Choice Cut Select Angus Aged Organic Farm Fresh Moron named Tree, yes that statement is correct.
I thought that guy was gonna take a week off. I was looking forward to it.
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| 334 | Bauxman
ID: 161131169
Wed, Dec 16, 2009, 13:20
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Then he's sitting there babbling about the politics in Ft. Worth. Like I care and how in the heck is it relative to the topic at hand. Gramps is rambling on about the war again.
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| 335 | DWetzel
ID: 33337117
Wed, Dec 16, 2009, 13:21
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So, it's OK for you to make personal attacks, but not anyone else?
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| 336 | Bauxman
ID: 161131169
Wed, Dec 16, 2009, 13:31
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Do you admit others have made personal attacks?
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| 337 | DWetzel
ID: 33337117
Wed, Dec 16, 2009, 13:52
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I asked you a question first. If you aren't going to answer my questions, why should I answer yours?
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| 338 | Tree
ID: 248472317
Wed, Dec 16, 2009, 14:18
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Like I care and how in the heck is it relative to the topic at hand.
1. it directly referenced your comment about Texas.
2. Conveniently, you ignored the response to your comment about *my* political opinions regarding gun laws.
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| 339 | sarge33rd
ID: 451137172
Thu, Dec 17, 2009, 07:57
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Do you admit others have made personal attacks?
Is this what the right has devolved into? Bait and switch tactics in an effort to find a "gotchya" moment soundbite?
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| 340 | DWetzel
ID: 278201415
Thu, Dec 17, 2009, 09:53
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No, not the right. Just that particular individual.
Focus, sarge. Focus.
But don't allow it to go unanswered.
In my opinion this should be the standard (and only) response to him (feel free to copy and paste, no royalties required) until such time as the question is answered. (And I do have followups.)
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