There's a war on Christmas, O'Reilly recently reminded viewers, driven by those who "loathe the baby Jesus."
and so on.
2
Bauxman
ID: 161131169 Wed, Dec 16, 2009, 13:15
Merry Christmas to all you liberals. You're off on Christmas Day at your job. Not because of Muhammed or whatever gods you liberals pray to, but because of Jesus Christ. You're welcome for the day off.
So yes, your kids are off of school and you are off of work because its Christmas. It doesn't mean I want you to convert. It just means that this is a nation founded on Christian values and we're going to celebrate it.
3
Bauxman
ID: 161131169 Wed, Dec 16, 2009, 13:18
Tree, I hope you and all your Jewish buddies have a great Christmas. Anybody who doesn't like CHRISTMAS being prominently displayed in this country should show up to work on the 25th and work the paid holiday in protest.
4
Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522 Wed, Dec 16, 2009, 13:26
Actually, thank the Romans. December 25th was chosen as Jesus' birth day because of an already-existing holiday on that day.
5
Bauxman
ID: 161131169 Wed, Dec 16, 2009, 13:33
Thank the Romans and then also MERRY CHRISTMAS to you Perm Dude.
6
Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522 Wed, Dec 16, 2009, 13:37
I think you'd have a hard time thanking any Europeans, B-Man. But merry Christmas to you as well.
I'll be spending it in Socialist Canada.
7
Balrog Dude
ID: 02856618 Wed, Dec 16, 2009, 14:04
First of all, merry, happy, joyful whatever you like to everybody.
Back to PD's topic: Before my son (who is now 11) entered school, I believed some of the war on Christmas hype and was particularly sad he wouldn't be allowed to sing carols in school like I did. He goes to a public school in a mostly conservative district. I've found that the school sings Christmas carols, along with other religion's songs, throughout the year. What I'm really afraid of is that some zealot will try to ban the other religion's songs, which will surely result in a ban of the traditional Christmas carols as well. I'm betting that that's why a lot of schools don't allow Christmas carols: because some kook cried about the other's songs.
I'm particularly amused that his school's theme song is a modified kyrie, which is an ancient Greek Christian song of praise. Many of the lyrics are "updated" so to say, but the chorus is still "Kyrie, eleison" which basically means "Lord, have mercy". I love it!
8
Boldwin
ID: 26451820 Wed, Dec 16, 2009, 14:10
The reason for the movement [to ban a holiday I don't celebrate] is that the ACLU discovered a way to extract a payoff from every lawsuit.
Interesting fact: It was illegal to celebrate Christmas in early America because it was a pagan holiday.
9
Tree
ID: 248472317 Wed, Dec 16, 2009, 14:10
Actually, thank the Romans. December 25th was chosen as Jesus' birth day because of an already-existing holiday on that day.
or, perhaps the Pagans. There are definitely questions as to why Dec. 25 was chosen to celebrate Christmas, with the most likely reasons being the Pagan celebration of the Solstice, or, as you pointed out, the Roman holiday of Sol Invictus, which, in essence, was also a celebration of the Solstice.
Tree, I hope you and all your Jewish buddies have a great Christmas. Anybody who doesn't like CHRISTMAS being prominently displayed in this country should show up to work on the 25th and work the paid holiday in protest.
and i hope you and all your friends have a great Christmas as well, and get a bit of tolerance, understanding, and even some happiness, because you are certainly one miserable SOB.
I've got no problem with Christmas. When my ex and I lived together, we even had a Christmas Tree.
But when I get my annual motherlode of Christmas cards, it's a little extra special when one of my friends takes the extra care and time to send me a Channukah card.
I think that's what you don't understand. That there are other people in this country, people who don't celebrate Christmas, but have no problem with it.
I appreciate those who wish me Happy Holidays or Happy Channukah, because it means they're conscious, tolerant, and aware of the fact I don't celebrate Christmas. But i don't disparage those who DO wish me a Happy Christmas either.
It just means that this is a nation founded on Christian values and we're going to celebrate it.
pointing out your historical inaccuracies is like shooting fish in a barrel. you really should do some research before shooting off your mouth.
The fact of the matter is that NOT celebrating Christmas is what this nation was founded on. Congress was even in session on Christmas Day in 1789, the first year of the United States Constitution.
But prior to that, Christmas was not a celebrated holiday in this country. Heck, in the 1600s, it was even outlawed in Boston.
So, if you want to talk about Christmas and the founding of this nation, you have to accept the fact that it was not something our founding fathers wanted anything to do with.
10
Boldwin
ID: 26451820 Wed, Dec 16, 2009, 14:16
So, if you want to talk about Christmas and the founding of this nation, you have to accept the fact that it was not something our founding fathers wanted anything to do with...
Because it offended their christian values.
11
Bauxman
ID: 161131169 Wed, Dec 16, 2009, 14:22
It doesn't mean I want you to convert. It just means that this is a nation founded on Christian values and we're going to celebrate it.
Thanks Boldwin.
12
Tree
ID: 248472317 Wed, Dec 16, 2009, 14:33
So, if you want to talk about Christmas and the founding of this nation, you have to accept the fact that it was not something our founding fathers wanted anything to do with...
Because it offended their christian values.
Actually, it was because it was an English tradition, and they wanted to do away with those.
13
Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522 Wed, Dec 16, 2009, 14:56
If you are celebrating the nation being founded on Christian virtues at Christmas, I'm going to have to point out that you are missing the point of both of those things.
14
biliruben
ID: 16105237 Wed, Dec 16, 2009, 15:08
So yes, your kids are off of school and you are off of work because its Christmas.
I'm actually forced to take it, and forced to burn one of my few vacation days for it.
My wife gets it off - unpaid.
I have to pay for it at my kid's daycare, even though he isn't being cared for.
How is this a good thing? F'in X-ians.
15
biliruben
ID: 16105237 Wed, Dec 16, 2009, 15:08
Oh yeah - Merry Christmas!!!
16
Boldwin
ID: 26451820 Wed, Dec 16, 2009, 15:17
"Actually, it was because it was an English tradition, and they wanted to do away with those."
Pulled right out of your posterior without the slightest validation. Entirely fatuous. Puritans didn't like pagan contamination like this when they were loyal British subjects living in England. It was not about nationalism.
17
Bauxman
ID: 2511291614 Wed, Dec 16, 2009, 15:29
It kills liberals that America is a Christian nation. Liberals cannot make up their about what they hate more, America or Christians. Nothing would please liberals more than if every reference to God was taken from our culture. Notice how Tree tries to rewrite history in a weak attempt to accomplish it.
18
biliruben
ID: 16105237 Wed, Dec 16, 2009, 15:38
The majority of liberals are Christian.
That just makes whack-job extremist Christians want to soil their Depends.
19
Tree
ID: 248472317 Wed, Dec 16, 2009, 15:43
"Actually, it was because it was an English tradition, and they wanted to do away with those."
Pulled right out of your posterior without the slightest validation. Entirely fatuous. - BALDWIN
no, that's YOUR style. if you had followed my link, you'd see the source.
Who do you have to thank for Christmas in America? Not our founding fathers.
Rather, author Washington Irving, who's details and observations of BRITISH Christmas traditions are what largely influenced our current American Christmas traditions.
20
Seattle Zen
ID: 1410391215 Wed, Dec 16, 2009, 16:02
I think both Tree and Boldwin are correct, Christmas was considered by fundamentalists in the 16 & 17 hundreds as the pagan solstice festival dressed up as a Christian holiday, something that Loyalist (non-Puritan) British society had long forgotten or cared about. Being anti-Christmas was both anti-pagan and anti-British.
21
soxzeitgeist
ID: 5011181617 Wed, Dec 16, 2009, 18:18
I've been lurking the last few days, trying to catch up on my thread reading, so as to not jump in cold, unprepared and uninformed.
I've got to say, maybe it's just wishful thinking, but it seems that the tone was more civil - and more importantly, the context more informed and well researched - last time I hung about and regularly posted.
There's a lot of trolling going on. Maybe everyone is just that comfortable in the role they play here, but it's tough to swallow. I hate to call out any one by name, but while we never really saw much from the same perspective, box, I remember you at least acting like and adult. What gives?
22
Tree
ID: 248472317 Wed, Dec 16, 2009, 18:24
I've got to say, maybe it's just wishful thinking, but it seems that the tone was more civil - and more importantly, the context more informed and well researched - last time I hung about and regularly posted.
no question. and it's a topic that has been discussed on more than one occasion. previously well-researched posters stopped researching, and people that were once at least remotely civil, don't even pretend anymore.
23
Bauxman
ID: 2110171217 Wed, Dec 16, 2009, 18:28
Drop your one-sided stance on the issue sox and I will tell you.
Sox, Tree deliberately crashed this forum with relentless content-free spam of the most vulgar low brow nature. With a little help from Sarge and the silence of the rest he destroyed any chance of rational discourse.
It for sure isn't Box's fault. True, for the few months Box posted here, Box wasn't able to ignore it enuff, or rise above that lowest common denominator and it indeed takes super-human restrant to stay above it.
Trolls drag you down to the gutter and then hammer you with their extensive experience wallowing in mud and filth.
26
jedman Dude
ID: 315192219 Wed, Dec 16, 2009, 21:04
Maybe this is what we need here.
During World War I, on and around Christmas Day 1914, the sounds of rifles firing and shells exploding faded in a number of places along the Western Front in favor of holiday celebrations in the trenches and gestures of goodwill between enemies.
Starting on Christmas Eve, many German and British troops sang Christmas carols to each other across the lines, and at certain points the Allied soldiers even heard brass bands joining the Germans in their joyous singing.
At the first light of dawn on Christmas Day, some German soldiers emerged from their trenches and approached the Allied lines across no-man's-land, calling out "Merry Christmas" in their enemies' native tongues. At first, the Allied soldiers feared it was a trick, but seeing the Germans unarmed they climbed out of their trenches and shook hands with the enemy soldiers. The men exchanged presents of cigarettes and plum puddings and sang carols and songs. There was even a documented case of soldiers from opposing sides playing a good-natured game of soccer.
Some soldiers used this short-lived ceasefire for a more somber task: the retrieval of the bodies of fellow combatants who had fallen within the no-man's land between the lines.
The so-called Christmas Truce of 1914 came only five months after the outbreak of war in Europe and was one of the last examples of the outdated notion of chivalry between enemies in warfare. It was never repeated—future attempts at holiday ceasefires were quashed by officers' threats of disciplinary action—but it served as heartening proof, however brief, that beneath the brutal clash of weapons, the soldiers' essential humanity endured.
Merry Christmas and Happy Channukah to all.
27
biliruben
ID: 16105237 Wed, Dec 16, 2009, 23:05
Nice story, Jed. Way to attempt to raise the bar.
28
sarge33rd
ID: 451137172 Thu, Dec 17, 2009, 03:37
echo post 27. Nice piece Jed.
29
Wilmer McLean
ID: 271130176 Thu, Dec 17, 2009, 07:32