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Subject: Raiding Retirement Savings Posted by: Boldwin - [183112613] Wed, May 05, 2010, 05:10 With customers for treasuries [which prop up the deficit spending] drying up, they are looking for new customers and they are looking at you. Down the road you will probably be required to hand over regular retirement savings in exchange for a government IOU of a steady retirement stream of income. | |||||||
| 1 | Boldwin ID: 183112613 Wed, May 05, 2010, 05:11 | 'Why do I rob banks? Because that is where they keep the money' - John Dillinger | ||||||
| 2 | Tree ID: 248472317 Wed, May 05, 2010, 08:23 |
this has been floating around the interwebs for nearly 2 years now. it's not anything new, despite your recently stumbling into it. it's become a familiar rallying-cry of the fear-mongering Right. "OMG! the Government is taking over!", despite the fact we saw the largest expansion of the government come while a Republican was in office. truth hardly matters to the people who continue to perpetuate these fears. if you're interested in continuing to be mis-informed, don't bother researching. if you'd like a dose of reality, some of it, explaining what was ACTUALLY said and who said it, is right here... | ||||||
| 3 | Boldwin ID: 183112613 Wed, May 05, 2010, 10:24 | I'll take Newt Gingerich as an expert on this over you anyday. | ||||||
| 4 | biliruben ID: 16105237 Wed, May 05, 2010, 10:28 |
I'll bet my 401K against yours that I am never forced to buy t-bills in exchange for a glorified pension. You transfer your to mine at the end of Obama's presidency, then if it happens in the future, you get both mine and yours back (substantially increased over what I expect are the fairly pedestrian returns you are getting on your declining RE portfolio). Deal? | ||||||
| 5 | Tree ID: 248472317 Wed, May 05, 2010, 10:33 |
I'll take Newt Gingerich as an expert on this over you anyday. i'm not the expert. i don't claim to be, and i have no problem acknowledging i'm an "expert" on very little. and that's the difference between you and i - you think you're an expert on everything, when reality shows the opposite. rather, i just provided information that basically blows your thesis out of the water. and it chaps your hide that someone you have derided as a moron for years keeps offering up easy-to-find information that counters your silly claims. | ||||||
| 6 | Perm Dude ID: 5510572522 Wed, May 05, 2010, 10:40 | I guess there aren't any more problems to be solved. I can't imagine any other reason for the GOP to be inventing problems that don't exist. | ||||||
| 7 | Boldwin ID: 183112613 Wed, May 05, 2010, 11:40 |
bili You and the rest of you could send me your 401's when I am proven right, except that you won't be able to. | ||||||
| 8 | DWetzel ID: 278201415 Wed, May 05, 2010, 11:52 |
B, Thanks for the info/lecture, we'll take it under advisement, since there's clearly no discussion to be had. | ||||||
| 9 | Tree ID: 248472317 Wed, May 05, 2010, 12:01 |
You and the rest of you could send me your 401's when I am proven right, except that you won't be able to. so, in other words, you're backing down from Bili's challenge. | ||||||
| 10 | Boldwin ID: 183112613 Wed, May 05, 2010, 15:45 | I don't have a 401k to bet. | ||||||
| 11 | Perm Dude ID: 5510572522 Wed, May 05, 2010, 15:50 | Ha! Betting with house money, then. | ||||||
| 12 | Boldwin ID: 183112613 Wed, May 05, 2010, 17:19 | Where did I propose a bet I couldn't pay off? | ||||||
| 13 | Boldwin ID: 183112613 Wed, May 05, 2010, 17:21 | Since bili will have nothing to put up the bet is a non-starter. | ||||||
| 14 | Building 7 Leader ID: 171572711 Wed, May 05, 2010, 17:22 |
They did it in Argentina. | ||||||
| 15 | Boldwin ID: 183112613 Thu, May 06, 2010, 10:40 |
Biden proposes nationalizing your 401k's:In Chapter 3 of the Annual Report on the Middle Class released in February by Vice President Biden and the White House Task Force on the Middle Class, the Obama administration calls for enhancing the “retirement options” for the middle class by imposing “new regulations to improve the transparency and adequacy of 401(k) retirement savings.” | ||||||
| 16 | Boldwin ID: 183112613 Thu, May 06, 2010, 10:43 |
Coinciding with the publication of the report described above, the Obama White House, together with the Departments of Labor and Treasury, issued a so-called “Request for Information” calling for a detailed analysis of the pros and cons of the “annuitization” of individual 401(k)s. The scheme was set forth in a set of “Proposed Rules” published on February 2, 2010 in the Federal Register. | ||||||
| 17 | Perm Dude ID: 5510572522 Thu, May 06, 2010, 10:59 |
You mean the government regulates financial instruments through nationwide regulatory schemes??? And they've been doing it for years??? The fall of the Republic is upon us. | ||||||
| 18 | Tree ID: 248472317 Thu, May 06, 2010, 11:09 |
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| 19 | biliruben ID: 113582522 Thu, May 06, 2010, 13:08 |
Every single change to retirement plans in the last few decades has been to shift the burden of risk from those who understand it and can (if properly motivated) manage it, to those who by and large don't understand it and have little ability to manage it. Corporations and government can handle fluctuations in the market and large negative returns for periods of time. Individuals at or near retirement can't. Any move to provide options with decrease risk for the individual is met with "Marxism!" and National take-over! In truth, very few people can, or even wish to, handle their retirement investments in a way that minimized their exposure to very real risk. The typical behavior of the non-savvy investor over the last couple of years was to look at their 401K statement, freak when they saw a 40% decline, pull it all out of stocks because they were seeing their nest egg decimated and couldn't afford to take that risk, then miss the subsequent run up. This wiped trillions from retirement accounts of people who really, really needed it to get through that last 20 years of their lives, and enriched the sharks. Any option which guarantees steady income would be greeted with open arms by the vast majority of the people, if not for nitwits screaming Marxism. | ||||||
| 20 | Boldwin ID: 183112613 Thu, May 06, 2010, 16:02 | It's bad enuff that your SS is invested in a ponzi scheme. Don't let them turn all of them into government IOU's. | ||||||
| 21 | biliruben ID: 113582522 Thu, May 06, 2010, 16:11 | Enlighten me on your new, market-based plan to keep less fortunate seniors off the steam-grates, dumpsters and cat-food. | ||||||
| 22 | Tree ID: 248472317 Thu, May 06, 2010, 16:14 |
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| 23 | Boldwin ID: 183112613 Thu, May 06, 2010, 16:34 | Keep their lockbox raiding hands off the 401K's for starters. | ||||||
| 24 | biliruben ID: 113582522 Thu, May 06, 2010, 16:43 |
Yeah, I get that. What about finishers? What about the half of the population that never has and never will be willing and/or able to save for retirement? What's your plan for keeping a roof over their heads and food in their mouths? | ||||||
| 25 | Boldwin ID: 183112613 Thu, May 06, 2010, 16:49 |
If they offered me all the money they stole from me which they dumped into the ponzi scheme...and let me invest it in spyyders I'd accept that deal in a nanosecond. I'd take my money back today from SS without interest and still outperform SS's return. If they had let me opt out when I was young [as I was begging my bookkeeper to find a way], this plan would have had me retiring wealthy and comfortable even if I had retired at the bottom of a depression and market crash. | ||||||
| 26 | Boldwin ID: 183112613 Thu, May 06, 2010, 16:55 | I'd rather have had $50 a month invested over a lifetime in spyders than the hundreds per month that evaporated in SS. It would be cheaper for the government to invest their EIC for the poorest in broadly diversified real investments, than to let the IOU's build up and the entitlements go thru the roof. | ||||||
| 27 | biliruben ID: 113582522 Thu, May 06, 2010, 17:02 | Except they probably need the EIC to eat now. No reason to save for retirement if you are dead. | ||||||
| 28 | Boldwin ID: 183112613 Thu, May 06, 2010, 17:04 | When the nanny state runs out of other people's money, we all starve. | ||||||
| 29 | biliruben ID: 113582522 Thu, May 06, 2010, 17:16 |
I'm not sure if you noticed, but you are a bit light on solutions of your own, and heavy and unwarranted criticism. I understand, you have been robbed blind and would be a gazillionaire except the gov'mint stole all your money. Most people are neither as smart, earned as much through whatever highly productive activity you do nor as victimized as you. We need to think beyond our own selfish boxes if we are to survive as a society. | ||||||
| 30 | Building 7 Leader ID: 171572711 Thu, May 06, 2010, 17:38 | One option in a 401K is treasury bonds. Or a fixed return of some kind. This is basically the government option you want to shove down everyone's throat. It's already there. The closer you are to retirement, you should have less in common stock and more in a fixed income vehicle. | ||||||
| 31 | biliruben ID: 113582522 Thu, May 06, 2010, 17:41 |
I don't want to shove anything down anyone's throat. I just pragmatic enough to realize that the vast majority of people think about 1% as hard on their retirement investments as you or I, and I don't want elderly homeless strewn about my city. Treasury bonds are about the last thing I would personally choose as an investment, but I can see where it would be the right choice for some. Making a low risk option more available and obvious isn't shoving anything down anyone's throat. | ||||||
| 32 | Building 7 Leader ID: 171572711 Thu, May 06, 2010, 17:45 |
It sounded like you were in favor of raiding retirement accounts. If they have a 401K, a low risk option is available. Whether they choose that is up to them. It's not the govermnment's job to babysit everyone. | ||||||
| 33 | biliruben ID: 113582522 Thu, May 06, 2010, 17:47 |
Absolutely nobody is in favor of raiding retirement accounts. Geez. Death Panels I can go for though! | ||||||
| 34 | Boldwin ID: 183112613 Thu, May 06, 2010, 18:08 |
Absolutely no one who isn't in congress, you mean. You'd even be wrong there. The people who intend to hand this country over to the new world order have no intention of paying off the USA's debts and the money in those 'lockboxes' are just wasted resources that could be [and have been] spent furthering their agenda from their POV. | ||||||
| 35 | biliruben ID: 113582522 Thu, May 06, 2010, 18:28 |
Given your track record of predictions (something like 0 for 2500), I feel pretty confident that anything you are concerned about, any logical person needn't be. I appreciate all the heavy weights you lifted off my shoulders through the years! | ||||||
| 36 | astade Sustainer ID: 214361313 Fri, May 07, 2010, 00:23 |
RE: 30 Good post. I think towards the run up to retirement you want to just outstrip inflation. By how much?... is a question that I can't answer. | ||||||
| 37 | Building 7 Leader ID: 171572711 Fri, May 07, 2010, 13:48 |
The general thinking is to be in stocks when you are younger and can withstand a long-term period of poor market performance. Because you don't really need the money until you are 65 or so. It goes up , it goes down, it doesn't matter much until you want to use it. When you get close to retirement , you should be shifting the majority of that money to a less risky investment. I remember some Enron employees got screwed, because they could only buy Enron stock in their retirement plan. And they had to sit there, and watch it go down the toilet. I think that rule got changed, and companies have to provide another option now. | ||||||
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