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Subject: Burlington Coat Factory Mosque
Posted by: Perm Dude
- [5510572522] Wed, Aug 25, 2010, 10:38
Probably worth pulling this issue out of the larger threads they've been discussed in.
Rick Santorum, as usual, takes the low road, calling the Imam a "jihadist" |
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| 623 | Boldwin
ID: 35615181
Sun, Jul 24, 2011, 23:52
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How civil.
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| 624 | Tree
ID: 41512710
Mon, Jul 25, 2011, 00:17
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from the link:
(Sergey Romanov, a blogger at Little Green Footballs,) describes how Breivik harbours "resentment against the mainstream media for pushing a culturally Marxist agenda and covering up Muslim wrong-doing and the negative effects of mass immigration and multiculturalism in Europe generally … he felt that the politically correct agenda was completely unchallenged by the mainstream press".
that's pretty much the same buzzword bingo from one of our regular posters here....just sayin'.
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| 625 | Boldwin
ID: 35615181
Mon, Jul 25, 2011, 03:12
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Things go around in circles. I can remember years ago posting on Salon Table-Talk and whenever I would bring up the Founding Fathers they would delight in reminding me that they weren't really christians...they were actually Freemasons and deists only.
Turns out this shooter in Norway is a Freemason but now he's hung around every christian's neck.
Precious little evidence he's christian. It's not a big issue in his facebook page.
Very suspicious facebook page. It looks very faked. Mass murderer with professional headshots. Norwegian nationalist with an all american culture, all english facebook page. Something very staged about this guy.
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| 626 | Boldwin
ID: 35615181
Mon, Jul 25, 2011, 03:14
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Oh, and anyone who dared to focus on the muslim character of the 9/11 attackers or the Fort Hood shooter was characterized as a bigot but the PC aren't gonna be worried about anti-religious bigotry in this case, eh?
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| 627 | Boldwin
ID: 35615181
Mon, Jul 25, 2011, 06:18
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Didn't pray, mainly influenced by the secular culture, explicitly not interested in theocracy, a 'social darwinian' [sounds nazi to me] and an evolutionist...More specifically, he calls himself a Justiciar Knight and explains what that means insofar as belief in Christianity:
"As this is a cultural war, our definition of being a Christian does not necessarily constitute that you are required to have a personal relationship with God or Jesus," he writes. "Being a Christian can mean many things; That you believe in and want to protect Europe's Christian cultural heritage. The European cultural heritage, our norms (moral codes and social structures included), our traditions and our modern political systems are based on Christianity – Protestantism, Catholicism, Orthodox Christianity and the legacy of the European enlightenment (reason is the primary source and legitimacy for authority). It is not required that you have a personal relationship with God or Jesus in order to fight for our Christian cultural heritage and the European way. In many ways, our modern societies and European secularism is a result of European Christendom and the enlightenment. It is therefore essential to understand the difference between a 'Christian fundamentalist theocracy' (everything we do not want) and a secular European society based on our Christian cultural heritage (what we do want). So no, you don't need to have a personal relationship with God or Jesus to fight for our Christian cultural heritage. It is enough that you are a Christian-agnostic or a Christian atheist (an atheist who wants to preserve at least the basics of the European Christian cultural legacy (Christian holidays, Christmas and Easter)). The PCCTS, Knights Templar is therefore not a religious organisation [sic] but rather a Christian 'culturalist' military order."
WND Of course they called McVeigh a christian too even tho he said he wasn't religious, wasn't interested in a personal god, sorta believed in a higher power/natural law thing, that 'science is my religion', engaged in many things besides mass murder which were also unchristian . Which didn't stop enemies of the militia movement from almost universally calling him a christian.
So basically it's open season on christians, any excuse will do, truthfulness doesn't count just as long as it will damage christians.
Every other religion has to be treated with kit gloves and multi-cultural diversity loving reverence even when their mainline religious leaders and scholars praise terrorism.
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| 628 | Pancho Villa
ID: 597172916
Mon, Jul 25, 2011, 09:15
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it's open season on christians
Every other religion....their mainline religious leaders and scholars praise terrorism.
Probably not the most reliable source for this discussion.
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| 629 | Boldwin
ID: 35615181
Mon, Jul 25, 2011, 09:23
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Your mashing up two different phrases is gonna be confusing. I hope you didn't intend that. I'm just speaking of one religion with the second phrase. Just quote any religious leader in Iran or the Gaza Strip. Why wouldn't they be an appropriate source?
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| 630 | Tree
ID: 41512710
Mon, Jul 25, 2011, 09:39
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Turns out this shooter in Norway is a Freemason but now he's hung around every christian's neck.
Precious little evidence he's christian. It's not a big issue in his facebook page.
Very suspicious facebook page. It looks very faked.
your one bit of "proof" he's a Mason is a photo-shopped looking photograph from a Facebook page you are already saying looks faked?!!?
meanwhile, words from Breivik to police interviewers:
The suspect told investigators during interviews that he belonged to an international order, The Knights Templar, according to Norwegian newspaper VG, which cited unnamed sources.
He described the organization as an armed Christian order, fighting to rid the West of Islamic suppression, the newspaper said. He also told investigators he had been in contact with like-minded individuals and said he counts himself as a representative of this order, it said.
oh, and then there's this:
In the manifesto, there are photographs of Breivik wearing what appears to be a military uniform that features an altered U.S. Marine Corps dress jacket with Knights Templar medals.
Historically, the Knights Templar were Christian Crusaders who helped fight against Muslim rule of the Holy Land in the Middle Ages.
-----------------------
Oh, and anyone who dared to focus on the muslim character of the 9/11 attackers or the Fort Hood shooter was characterized as a bigot but the PC aren't gonna be worried about anti-religious bigotry in this case, eh?
please see post 624. mmmmkay? thanks.
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| 631 | DWetzel
ID: 53326279
Mon, Jul 25, 2011, 10:33
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Oh, and anyone who dared to focus on the muslim character of the 9/11 attackers or the Fort Hood shooter was characterized as a bigot but the PC aren't gonna be worried about anti-religious bigotry in this case, eh?
I believe the exact words are "a taste of your own medicine".
Equally, you were all gung-ho to put the actions of a very small number of individuals on the backs of a billion or so -- why aren't you going to not be a massive hypocrite here, since hypocrisy seems to concern you so much.
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| 632 | Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Mon, Jul 25, 2011, 11:18
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Jennifer Rubin kinda backs away from her earlier knee jerk claim that "Jihadists" were responsible for the Norway events. From her latest: Early suspicion that the attacks might have been linked to a jihadist bombing plot in Oslo last year or the recent Norwegian prosecution of an Iraqi terrorist did not bear up
Neglecting to mention that, just just the day before she said ""There is a specific jihadist connection here."
There are lone-wolf domestic terrorists, and there are organized jihadists.
But apparently there cannot be Christian terrorists.
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| 633 | Boldwin
ID: 35615181
Mon, Jul 25, 2011, 13:18
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your one bit of "proof" he's a Mason is a photo-shopped looking photograph from a Facebook page you are already saying looks faked?!!? - Tree
The suspect told investigators during interviews that he belonged to an international order, The Knights Templar - Tree's own post
Knights Templar
*roll*
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| 634 | Boldwin
ID: 35615181
Mon, Jul 25, 2011, 13:26
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You can be an Islamist terrorist, oh because the Koran says go slay the infidel wherever you may find him.
You cannot be a christian terrorist because the Bible says to lay down the sword, he who lives by the sword dies by the sword, our weapons are not fleshly but spiritual. Any terrorist who claimed christianity would already by his actions have disowned Christ.
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| 635 | DWetzel
ID: 33337117
Mon, Jul 25, 2011, 13:27
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lol
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| 636 | Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Mon, Jul 25, 2011, 13:34
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That's right tree: The Right Wing will go to great lengths to demonstrate that a Christianist which acted on hateful blogs by their own wasn't, in fact, one of them.
Meanwhile, all Muslims want to force Christians to covert. No exceptions.
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| 637 | Boldwin
ID: 35615181
Mon, Jul 25, 2011, 13:39
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PD
Show me the Bible verse that condones terrorism. I've already paraphrased three which prohibit it.
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| 638 | Boldwin
ID: 35615181
Mon, Jul 25, 2011, 13:52
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PD
The funny thing is that you are adamant that muslims aren't Islamists...
...but you want to hang christianists on christians.
...and you want to hang the actions of a freemason on christians.
...and you the putative civility police want to hang the tag christianist terrorist on innocent bystanders.
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| 639 | Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Mon, Jul 25, 2011, 13:53
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Show me where Jesus said to withhold marriage from gays.
I know you are desperate to get the spotlight off a guy who shared your views on Muslims and went on a killing spree. But this isn't about your cafeteria Christianism.
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| 640 | sarge33rd
ID: 1964421
Mon, Jul 25, 2011, 13:58
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Before you categorically place him as a Freemason, show me a non-photoshopped pic, of him wearing his Masonic Ring.
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| 641 | DWetzel
ID: 33337117
Mon, Jul 25, 2011, 13:58
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I think someone's feeling awfully emboldened today now that someone else in the world agrees with him, even if said someone is a child-killing terrorist (and no matter how anyone may want to squirm out of the word, it applies here).
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| 642 | Boldwin
ID: 35615181
Mon, Jul 25, 2011, 14:39
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PD
Show me where Jesus said to withhold marriage from gays.
Everywhere he discussed obeying God.
I know you are desperate to get the spotlight off a guy...
No, no, keep the spotlight on freemasons. Please.
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| 643 | Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Mon, Jul 25, 2011, 14:47
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As they should be, right?
The funny thing is that you are adamant that muslims aren't Islamists
Your basic misunderstanding of my position, stated and explained by me in literally scores of posts, boils down to this mis-statement by you.
Your god is clearly "Confrontational Politics." Is isn't Jesus.
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| 644 | Boldwin
ID: 35615181
Mon, Jul 25, 2011, 15:25
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It is not for nothing that 'Cafeteria Catholics' is how the term cafeteria came to be associated or applied to religion.
The young men in my religion all go into prison in many countries because they refuse to become soldiers. In Greece and South Korea [and other countries] those are nearly lifetime sentences because they are asked to join the military at the end of each prison term and they go right back to prison when they refuse again.
I take great umbrage to the mendacious and dishonest people here trying to connect these peaceful people with terrorism.
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| 645 | DWetzel
ID: 53326279
Mon, Jul 25, 2011, 15:37
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Well, a lot of other people took umbrage when the shoe was on the other foot and you were trying to paint about a billion people as terrorists, and that didn't stop you from continuing to blather on about it. Don't like it? Tell it to the man in the mirror first. We're all just taking a cue from you.
In short, tough titties.
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| 646 | DWetzel
ID: 53326279
Mon, Jul 25, 2011, 15:45
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Also, I take great umbrage at being called mendacious and dishonest by someone who allegedly gives a flying **** about civility, but only when it suits him.
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| 647 | Boldwin
ID: 35615181
Mon, Jul 25, 2011, 16:36
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I never tried to paint all muslims as islamists. That's just another of your lies and slander.
Hopefully well short of 50% of muslims...
...but greater than 80% of imams in non-muslim countries even more in muslim lands, the eventual leaders of the muslim spring movements, who knows what percentage of muslims once the muslim brotherhood achieves control of the entire muslim world...
But not even 50% now. Never said that. You lie.
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| 648 | Boldwin
ID: 35615181
Mon, Jul 25, 2011, 16:58
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Extra credit quiz: Who introduced the 'Just War' doctrine into christendom?
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| 649 | DWetzel
ID: 53326279
Mon, Jul 25, 2011, 17:11
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I'll take a crazy guess off the top of my head and say Augustine. What do I win?
Tell me which of these you disagree with:
Some Muslims are terrorists.
Most Muslims aren't.
Some Christians are terrorists.
Most Christians aren't.
It's stupid to impute the actions of the few upon the many.
"...but greater than 80% of imams in non-muslim countries even more in muslim lands, the eventual leaders of the muslim spring movements, who knows what percentage of muslims once the muslim brotherhood achieves control of the entire muslim world..."
Liar.
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| 650 | Boldwin
ID: 35615181
Mon, Jul 25, 2011, 17:19
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Catholic
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| 651 | DWetzel
ID: 53326279
Mon, Jul 25, 2011, 18:04
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Wrong, cultist, but nice try, and it's funny that you think that's an insult anyway.
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| 652 | Boldwin
ID: 35615181
Mon, Jul 25, 2011, 18:28
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You're the one in a secret religion.
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| 654 | Tree
ID: 41512710
Mon, Jul 25, 2011, 23:31
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Knights Templar
ah yes. you're correct. they are affiliated with free masons - the difference being that the Knights Templar are CHRISTIANS.
so, i guess by your own link, that makes this guy a Christian Terrorist. thanks for that - hook, line, and sinker.
You're the one in a secret religion.
rich, coming from a guy who's religion is pretty secretive, and has been investigated for some church-approved sex scandals.
on a related note, i love how you toss around other people's religions as weapons - that's not bigoted of you much, is it?
it's also not terribly Christian of you, is it?
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| 655 | DWetzel
ID: 33337117
Mon, Jul 25, 2011, 23:39
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It's OK, I kind of like the cultist exposing himself for what he is. I figure it's a useful glimpse into someone who's goofy enough to put the rat poison in the Kool-Aid but isn't brave enough to actually do it.
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| 656 | DWetzel
ID: 33337117
Tue, Jul 26, 2011, 00:29
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Also, to clarify (since apparently nothing Boldwin ever says is deletion worthy, lol), it's not a secret religion. I'm just not telling someone whose sole purpose in wanting to know it is using it to spew further insults.
As long as other people's religions are fair game though, shall we start posting from silentlambs.org again? Seems fair.
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| 657 | Tree
ID: 41512710
Sun, Jul 31, 2011, 21:33
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'Christian terrorist'? Norway case strikes debate
As westerners wrestle with such characterizations of the Oslo mass murder suspect, the question arises: Nearly a decade after 9/11 created a widespread suspicion of Muslims based on the actions of a fanatical few, is this what it's like to walk a mile in the shoes of stereotype?
"Absolutely," said Mark Kelly Tyler, pastor of Mother Bethel African Methodist Episcopal Church in Philadelphia. "It clearly puts us in a position where we can't simply say that extreme and violent behavior associated with a religious belief is somehow restricted to Muslim extremists."
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| 658 | DWetzel
ID: 31111810
Sun, Jul 31, 2011, 22:39
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"It clearly puts us in a position where we can't simply say that extreme and violent behavior associated with a religious belief is somehow restricted to Muslim extremists."
If only that were true. Lots of cultists will still say it though.
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| 660 | DWetzel
ID: 31111810
Sun, Jul 31, 2011, 23:00
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*yawn* Well, if every true Christian will be in a concentration camp, then you, at least, would have nothing to fear.
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| 661 | Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Sun, Jul 31, 2011, 23:07
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The ability of far right Christians to play the martyr card continually amazes me. I think many of them actually feel that persecution is a sign of righteousness. And if reality doesn't offer actual persecution--well, persecution is in the eye of the person who feels persecuted, yes?
This is like self-medicating on self-righteousness.
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| 662 | Boldwin
ID: 35615181
Sun, Jul 31, 2011, 23:10
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PD
The funny thing is that you believe a handful of Palin's comments are genuinely dangerous but decades of concerted liberal conflation of christians with the taliban isn't.
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| 664 | Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Sun, Jul 31, 2011, 23:20
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B: I don't believe her statements are dangerous. I think the mindset that continues to deliver those statements are. I would never trust her, as Commander-in-Chief, to keep us safe. Or out of a pointless war, for that matter.
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| 671 | Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Tue, Aug 02, 2011, 10:57
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Norway as a personal breakthrough.
Good letter.
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| 672 | sarge33rd
ID: 1964421
Tue, Aug 02, 2011, 11:29
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great find, and post PD. Sincere BOL to those two friends, as they contend now with their "changed" reality.
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| 673 | Khahan
ID: 373143013
Tue, Aug 02, 2011, 15:09
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Good post Pd. Thanks. I want to highlight this part:
"Maybe the 9/11 guys were insane too and didn't represent Muslims?"
This is what I personally struggle with. I see this guy in Norway, Timothy McVeigh and his ilk as lone wolf wackos, acting on their own and trying to cling to a group (Christianity) to be legitimized.
Then I see the 9/11 attackers, taliban, al'queda, as groups representing their religion. To me it has always logically followed that their religion must have large factions of support for these guys because they are organized religious groups. But that is a leap of faith to make that assumption.
It could be a reality that the muslim wackos are simply better organized than the christian wackos. There may even be more Christian wackos in the world than Muslim ones. Who knows. The muslim ones are definitely better organized and come across as more deadly. But that doesn't mean everybody in their religion is that way.
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| 674 | DWetzel
ID: 31111810
Tue, Aug 02, 2011, 15:39
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It's easier to see the people of one's own religion as lone wolf wackos, because otherwise you'd find yourself associated with them. (That sentence probably reads rather dickish -- I sincerely don't mean it that way!) It's a natural reaction -- you know that the behavior is abberant, and you know based on personal experience that it's presumably not the religion causing the behavior, because you know hundreds of people in whom it doesn't cause the behavior. And besides, who wants to be associated with terrorists who shoot up a youth camp? On the other hand, your primary exposure to Muslims probably consists of whatever the media delivers (which pretty much consists of stuff getting blown up), and it's easy to perceive that aberrant behavior as somehow representative of the religion as a whole.
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| 675 | Boldwin
ID: 35615181
Tue, Aug 02, 2011, 16:35
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This isn't complicated.
One religion's book says, 'For tho we walk in the flesh we do not wage warfare according to flesh. For the weapons of our warfare are not fleshly but powerful by God for overturning powerfully entrenched things. For we are overturning reasonings and every lofty thing raised up against the knowledge of God.'
That would be the Christian operating manual.
-----------------
One religion's book says, 'Kill the infidel wherever you may find him'.
That would be the Muslim instruction manual.
So when one claims christianity as the justification for warfare he has disowned the faith.
When one kills in the name of Allah he is following the instruction manual.
On that simple fact lies all the difference.
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| 676 | Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Tue, Aug 02, 2011, 16:48
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Baldwin doubles down on an out-of-context quote from a bad translation from another religion's holy book to justify his own un-christian behavior toward them.
Anyone surprised? No?
If you want to go the textual close reading approach, B, you aren't likely to win.
Take some advice from your own holy book, in which intentions matter and grace and love should flow from your own actions and thoughts.
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| 677 | DWetzel
ID: 31111810
Tue, Aug 02, 2011, 17:16
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Shouldn't Boldwin be off stoning adulterers or something?
No, I'm not surprised. Wish someone would put a stop to it.
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| 678 | Boldwin
ID: 35615181
Tue, Aug 02, 2011, 18:04
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PD(5) Based on the above, we can now investigate verse (9:5), "But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful." As if I wasn't aware they think conversion by the sword is merciful.
And arguing that because most muslims haven't historically slain infidels wherever they have found them, or to be more precise haven't offered them then convert or die 'mercy'...just means that thankfully most people follow their innate human conscience rather than the Koran. Even muslims.
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| 679 | sarge33rd
ID: 1964421
Tue, Aug 02, 2011, 21:07
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Had this whole long logical counter all typed out for B, when I decided "why fkn bother? He'll gloss over, ignore or accuse me of being a troll".
Enjoy your solitude B.
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| 680 | Perm Dude
ID: 3210201915
Mon, Aug 06, 2012, 12:38
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Missouri mosque burns after second fire in 5 weeks.
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| 681 | Seattle Zen
ID: 3310162612
Thu, Mar 14, 2013, 19:43
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Thank goodness I didn't go to the CPAC this year, it's nothing more than a 'Sharia-Compliant Conference' Where Islamic Law Has Been Implemented.
Hat tip, maybe even a courtesy, to Robert Spencer!
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