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Subject: Middle East (and beyond): Winter revolutions
Posted by: Perm Dude
- [5510572522] Fri, Feb 18, 2011, 10:51
A roundup
Libya is most interesting to me. I suspect it'll also be the bloodiest. |
| 1 | Pancho Villa
ID: 597172916
Fri, Feb 18, 2011, 10:57
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Bahrain appears to have more religious elements, a Sunni monarchy vs. Shia majority, with even more signifigance because the US 5th fleet, tasked with keeping Persian Gulf transit flowing, is based there.
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| 2 | Pancho Villa
ID: 597172916
Fri, Feb 18, 2011, 11:26
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Pat Buchanan, often accused of being an isolationist, gives a pragmatic assessment of our role in the region.
The U.S. press is transfixed by all this, but a question arises: What vital interest of a United States staring at bankruptcy would be imperiled if we got out of the way, stopped fighting these countries' wars and paying these countries' bills and let these people determine their own future for good or ill?
Of course, this is basically Ron Paul's position as well, the same Ron Paul that just won the presidential straw poll(again) at CPAC.
There's a real chance that the military industrial complex, supported by those who use "strong national defense" as a soundbite, will be derailed by economic realities.
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| 3 | Pancho Villa
ID: 597172916
Fri, Feb 18, 2011, 11:37
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And if you want a good laugh, Townhall also features this article today from Oliver North.
I'm not kidding. North actually has an article about the region titled "Moral Ambiguity."
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| 4 | Nerveclinic
ID: 29123923
Sat, Feb 19, 2011, 16:13
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Bahrain appears to have more religious elements, a Sunni monarchy vs. Shia majority
I don't think the Sunni - Shia thing is really about "religion"
It's more "clan", or "turf". Your "religious" identity is not about ideology, it's about power and your "group" sticking together for political and wealth reasons.
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| 5 | Boldwin
ID: 441162018
Sun, Feb 20, 2011, 20:47
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PV
Do you in your wildest dreams think you know more about the subject than North? ...who spent years assigned by the president to keep terrorists from slitting your throat?
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| 6 | Nerveclinic
ID: 29123923
Sun, Feb 20, 2011, 23:53
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Baldwin you want so badly to believe in conspiracy, but then you put one of the major conspirators up on a pedestal like we should believe any of the words that come from his wicked lips.
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| 7 | Nerveclinic
ID: 29123923
Sun, Feb 20, 2011, 23:57
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What else did he do Baldwin.? He gave missiles to the Ayatollah and made the deal when he still held American citizens hostage.
You pick your heros in an interesting manner. If he did it for Clinton he would be a traitor worthy of hanging, but since he did it for your sacred cow Reagan he is a hero.
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| 8 | Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Mon, Feb 21, 2011, 02:01
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Meanwhile, in Libya, it is looking more and more like trouble, with a dynastic family of bullies willing to cling to power fueled by oil.
[ring any bells?]
"Pull my finger and everyone you know dies."
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| 10 | Boldwin
ID: 441162018
Mon, Feb 21, 2011, 04:19
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Nerve
You think retribution is in order? North will probably one day be interned in the 'Garden Plot' he designed for others.
But I always did think it was a 'neat idea' getting Iran to pay for anticommunism. Still do. Always will.
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| 11 | bibA
ID: 48627713
Mon, Feb 21, 2011, 09:14
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You seem to believe that we caused Iran to make the gift of paying for anticommunism. Wasn't it actually a trade? If so, then one should concede that North/Reagan were also in fact aiding in the support of the regime in Iran.
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| 12 | Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Mon, Feb 21, 2011, 09:22
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Actually, it was worse: Iran was buying arms from the US secretly (there was a ban on arms sales to Iran for some stupid liberal reason). It was hoped that the income from those sales (being funneled through Israel) can be diverted to the Contras.
The hostages were a toss in. The whole thing has been tossed around as an arms-for-hostages deal, but I'm not sure it was ever put that way to the Iranians, at least not initially. It was certainly the hope of North and others that selling guns. missiles, and other parts to the Iranians would soften them up to the West, just as it worked for other totalitarian regimes for the US in the past.
In this, Reagan (and North) were treading a long and tired policy of giving arms to thugs.
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| 13 | Nerveclinic
ID: 29123923
Mon, Feb 21, 2011, 10:31
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So Baldwin you are on record that you like the idea that we sent arms to a country who had just recently illegally held our embassy employees and other Americans hostage for a year?
A regime that paraded them blindfolded through the street and ridiculed us? A far right wing Islamist dictatorship that to this day is hanging it's own people for simply protesting against the regime?
You think it was a "neat idea" that we gave this swine arms?
At least we have it on record now.
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| 14 | DWetzel
ID: 278201415
Mon, Feb 21, 2011, 10:54
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Yeah, but Reagan did it so it's cool. If you haven't figured out by now that the actors are much more important to him than the actions, you haven't been paying attention.
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| 15 | Pancho Villa
ID: 597172916
Mon, Feb 21, 2011, 11:06
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I didn't even read North's column. I just thought it humorous that he titled it "Moral Ambiguity" given his history.
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| 16 | Tree
ID: 320371412
Mon, Feb 21, 2011, 13:41
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#13 - considering the criminals, liars, and murderers he holds up as heroes, are you really shocked at all?
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| 17 | Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Mon, Feb 21, 2011, 14:02
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Libya is turning bloody.
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| 18 | Boldwin
ID: 281232120
Mon, Feb 21, 2011, 22:10
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Nerve
I consider getting villians to free each other's victims, a good idea.
If you can figure out how to get OBL to finance a free N. Korea call the state department.
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| 19 | Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Tue, Feb 22, 2011, 00:02
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Seems like a good Army War College thought exercise. IRL, it was a horrible idea. It made Reagan look out-of-touch and it enboldened other thugs around the world that the US was happy to deal with terrorists.
The most ironic thing to me about the whole thing wasn't that Iran was funding the Contras. It was that the Contras were smuggling cocaine into the US on most every flight in.
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