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Subject: Tsunami
Posted by: Pancho Villa
- [597172916] Sun, Mar 13, 2011, 11:17
Unbelievable
Never has there been more immediate and graphic coverage of such a natural disaster. Prayers for all Japanese as they come to grips with this devastation. |
| 1 | Tree
ID: 320371412
Sun, Mar 13, 2011, 11:40
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there are plenty of places to offer help. one of the simplest is "liking" Dog Bless You on Facebook - 100,000 likes in 10 days, and they'll donate $100,000.
a drop in the bucket compared to what is needed, but every bit helps.
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| 2 | Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Sun, Mar 13, 2011, 16:38
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The news about the nuclear plants keeps getting worse and worse.
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| 3 | Boldwin
ID: 462371311
Sun, Mar 13, 2011, 17:55
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Down 6 out of 55 reactors. I'm thinking there isn't a lotta coal fired backup. I wonder how many they can lose without a permanent rolling brown-out situation for a decade till new reactors are built.
There is also a country that can't afford to lose a Chernobyl sized chunk of farmland.
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| 4 | Pancho Villa
ID: 597172916
Sun, Mar 13, 2011, 18:49
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Good points, B. Expect to see Honda pumping out the generators at mach speed, but with gas prices skyrocketing, how many Japanese can afford to run them?
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| 5 | Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Sun, Mar 13, 2011, 22:39
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Holy crap! A street level video of the tsunami.
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| 6 | R9
ID: 2854239
Mon, Mar 14, 2011, 01:25
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Insane video. :(
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| 7 | biliruben
ID: 34435239
Mon, Mar 14, 2011, 01:46
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Wow. Nerves of steal just to film it. After the house takes out the stairs your were standing on a minute ago, I run for my life.
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| 8 | Boldwin
ID: 16216146
Mon, Mar 14, 2011, 07:16
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I am also surprised their nuclear plant designs didn't hold up better. I spent a few years in architecture in college and a lifelong student of design and one of the wonders of the world is the genius they have displayed for buildings that roll with these punches.
Perhaps there is a certain point at which the concrete structure is so heavy that you can't get it to go with the flow, but I doubt it.
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| 9 | Boldwin
ID: 16216146
Mon, Mar 14, 2011, 07:22
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Nuclear provides somewhat less than 40% of Japan's power. I'm surprised it wasn't much higher.
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| 10 | Boldwin
ID: 16216146
Mon, Mar 14, 2011, 07:35
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Hang them from skyhooks maybe? Make the whole thing a giant shinbashira.
I'm only half joking. Love to see the math on doing that.
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| 11 | Boldwin
ID: 16216146
Mon, Mar 14, 2011, 08:13
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"Prime Minister Kan said the Japanese government will implement electrical blackouts to manage the shortage of power, beginning Monday."
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| 12 | Boldwin
ID: 16216146
Mon, Mar 14, 2011, 08:26
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Snippets:
"Asked earlier whether meltdowns had occurred, Mr Edano said: "We are acting on the assumption that there is a high possibility that one has occurred" in the plant's No. 1 reactor."
"The plant's operator said that so much water had evaporated from the No. 3 reactor that at one stage the top three metres of the fuel rods were exposed to the air, although they were later covered again."
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| 13 | Boldwin
ID: 16216146
Mon, Mar 14, 2011, 08:32
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'Time will tell'
The reactor has been shut down but the concern is the heat in the core, which can melt if it is not cooled. If the core melts through the reactor vessel, Dr Bergeron explains, it could flow onto the floor of the containment building.
If that happens, the structure will likely fail, the experts say.
"The containment building at this plant is certainly stronger than that at Chernobyl but a lot less strong than at Three Mile Island, so time will tell," he said.
Peter Bradford, former member of the US Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC), says that if the cooling attempts fail, "at that point it's a Chernobyl-like situation where you start dumping in sand and cement".
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"But World Nuclear Association spokesman Ian Hore-Lacy says the threat of a full meltdown is minimal.
"That possibility is remote at the best of times and is diminishing by the hour as the fuel gets cooler and generates less heat," he said.
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| 14 | Building 7
Leader
ID: 171572711
Mon, Mar 14, 2011, 09:52
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My uranium miner stock opened down 20%. Looks like sales are expected to be down.
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| 15 | Guru
ID: 330592710
Mon, Mar 14, 2011, 11:35
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Interesting before and after approach to satellite photos.
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| 16 | Frick
ID: 5310541617
Mon, Mar 14, 2011, 11:43
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Re: 8
From what I have read, the facilities survived the earthquake without significant damage, but the Tsunami flooded the diesel generators which power the pumps that provide the cooling water for the reactor vessels. There were bulwarks to stop a rogue wave, but were insufficient to stop the Tsunami.
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| 17 | Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Mon, Mar 14, 2011, 15:14
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Some more videos and some roundups of news
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| 18 | Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Tue, Mar 15, 2011, 01:44
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Japan's "Hail Mary" of using seawater might have fallen short. Two reactors at Fukishima Daiichi complex might be reaching critical -- right now.
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| 19 | Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Tue, Mar 15, 2011, 02:50
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Just got an email from a colleague in Tokyo:
Thanks for your kind email. The damages in Tokyo have been relativelly
small; so my colleagues and respective families are unharmed; though the
office was a complete mess with books and documents scattered all over the
place. We have some restrictions in electricity, public transportation, but
these inconveniences are nothing compared to what the people in the northern
areas are suffering. We didn't realize the magnitude of the damages out
there until we saw the news coverage.
There are still some aftershocks from time to time; so everybody is pretty
nervous.
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| 20 | Boldwin
ID: 55217158
Tue, Mar 15, 2011, 10:36
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I appreciate that no one here has trolled it up with lines like 'what kinda idiot builds a nuclear reactor on a fault line', the kind of cheap cynicism most other boards have seen.
However not having your cooling pump system proof against tsunamis in Japan is a pretty big oversight.
I'm not sure 'yeah but no one can build 100% safe against a 9.0 earthquake' cuts it.
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| 21 | Boldwin
ID: 55217158
Tue, Mar 15, 2011, 10:57
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For the record, I am pro-nuclear even in Japan. Especially in Japan. I believe this tech can be done right. It's still the safest corner of power production just as flight is the safest travel. The stats prove it even if it doesn't seem so in extremis.
Early designs from the 70's need a closer look, as they may have correctable shortcomings in hindsight. Even if they aren't as foolproof as the latest designs. Or there may be redundant safety features that could be added. Like emergency power placed above the tsunami highwater mark for example.
I live 30 miles from a reactor very similar to these in Japan. Without the tsunami risk.
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| 22 | Boldwin
ID: 55217158
Tue, Mar 15, 2011, 12:50
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"Reactors five and six, shut down a while back are heating up again."
Looking like a 6 reactor meltdown not out of the question.
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| 23 | Boldwin
ID: 55217158
Wed, Mar 16, 2011, 22:15
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There is a considerable cognoscenti support for thorium reactors building. They have their own geek society fanclub and everything. When you read the list of advantages you'll feel the tug too. - impossible to 'meltdown' since it operates in a melted state.
- operates at atmospheric pressure thus reducing or eliminating venting risk.
- increase in operating temperature slows down the nuclear chain reaction, inherently stabilizing the reactor.
- If it were to overheat it drops thru the reactor vessel to the containment vessel below where it freezes safely.
- 83 percent of LFTR waste products are safe within 10 years, while the remainder needs to be stored for 300 years.
- can use plutonium and nuclear waste as fuel, transmuting them into much less radioactive and harmful elements, thus eliminating the need for waste storage lasting up to 10,000 years.
- IOW it eats highly radioactive, long half-life waste and creates much much safer waste.
- Only thing missing is sparkles when it farts.
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| 24 | Boldwin
ID: 55217158
Wed, Mar 16, 2011, 22:46
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One more problem. Never heard of this one before.
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| 25 | Boldwin
ID: 55217158
Wed, Mar 16, 2011, 23:54
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Worst case scenario from the guy who knows.
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| 26 | Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Wed, Mar 16, 2011, 23:55
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#24: Yeah, I was just reading about that. And it appears (may have previously been mentioned) that one of the reactors had all the water boil away, leaving hot radioactive rods exposed to the air.
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| 27 | Boldwin
ID: 55217158
Thu, Mar 17, 2011, 05:22
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I haven't heard that any reactors had every drop boil away but rather the top meter or two of their rods exposed temporarily. If every last drop had been boiled off I am pretty sure that uranium would have sliced thru the bottom of the containment vessel like butter and be hitting the water table and exploding quite spectacularly by now.
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| 28 | Frick
ID: 5310541617
Thu, Mar 17, 2011, 11:53
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Wow, this video is reported to be 32 hours old and was taken by a Tokyo Power employee from a Japanese Self Defense helicoptor.
The reactor buildings look like the scene from Escape from New York.
Youtube
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| 29 | Boldwin
ID: 55217158
Thu, Mar 17, 2011, 12:26
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Hydrogen explosion shown on Japanese news broadcast.
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| 31 | biliruben
ID: 34435239
Thu, Mar 17, 2011, 12:44
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Only Godzilla can save us now...
Man.
My sister is mailing me some killer organic potassium iodide from her secret supplier. My nuclear-disaster profiteering career is launching nicely.
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| 32 | Boldwin
ID: 202591810
Fri, Mar 18, 2011, 15:56
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Killer health foods. Treating fire with fire?
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| 33 | Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Mon, Apr 04, 2011, 23:41
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Japanese having to dump radioactive wastewater into the sea.
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| 34 | Frick
ID: 5310541617
Thu, Apr 07, 2011, 11:25
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The USGS is reporting two large earthquakes off the coast of Honshu Japan. The first was 6.5, the 2nd 7.1. Tsunami warnings are apparently being issued.
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| 35 | Building 7
Leader
ID: 171572711
Thu, Apr 07, 2011, 11:45
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I saw an earthquake expert who said that they should expect one aftershock of 8.0 and 10 aftershocks of 7.0 over the next couple of years. This is typical of aftershocks after major earhquakes. One aftershock is 1.0 degree lower and 10 will be 2.0 degrees lower.
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| 36 | Boldwin
ID: 4030710
Thu, Apr 07, 2011, 11:49
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I wonder if they made any improvements to the tsunami wall shielding Fukushima Daiichi?
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| 37 | Frick
ID: 5310541617
Thu, Apr 07, 2011, 13:15
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Considering they are keeping staff at a minimum, I'll guess no. I saw this morning they had just started to allow recovery of the bodies in the evacuated area.
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