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Subject: Seattlites: America's Europeans Posted by: Seattle Zen - Donor [30216620] Thu, Mar 27, 2003, 21:40 Here is a great story by a Londoner explaining to his friends at home why Seattle is more like Europe than the rest of the US Jonathan Raban, my favorite author, is a Londoner who has lived in Seattle since 1990. He loves Seattle for all the reasons I do, natural beauty, beautiful summers and mild winters, and a highly educated, liberal, activist population. “US public hardens behind war but radical fringe finds its voice,” read a headline in the Guardian last week. Not true—or at least not true in my corner of the U.S., where the leafiest and richest suburbs were thickly placarded with “No Iraq War” signs, and where, on weekend protest marches against the Bush White House, prosperous bourgeois families, more usually seen tramping around the downtown art galleries on the first Thursday evening of each month, hugely outnumbered the bearded peaceniks of the radical fringe. A couple of weeks ago, Speight Jenkins, the general director of the Seattle Opera, told Seattle Weekly that in the course of a season of heavy fund-raising he hadn’t so far encountered one person who was in favor of the war: Fringe radicals are not usually people who can fork out seven-figure checks to keep the Ring Cycle going. At the private elementary school attended by my daughter, “No Iraq War” bumper stickers adorn the Range Rovers and Toyota Land Cruisers of the soccer moms, along with slyer, milder protest slogans, like “Carter for President in ’04.” At dinner parties and in public meetings, the prevailing mood before March 19 was pitched somewhere between aghast hilarity and downright despair as Seattle awaited a war in which it appears to want no part at all. The West Coast sets the trend that much of the rest of the country eventually emulates. So start reading The Seattle Weekly and The Stranger to see what your area will be like in 5-10 years. | |||||||
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| 123 | Boldwin ID: 49626249 Fri, Oct 07, 2005, 18:41 |
*wonders just what garanttee MBJ has that his wife won't pull a 'Katie'* 8] | ||||||
| 124 | Pancho Villa ID: 57582616 Tue, Oct 25, 2005, 15:53 |
My family has arranged a Christmas holiday ski trip to Sun Peaks, BC(just north of Kamloops) this year. The cost for me and my two kids to fly from Salt Lake to Kamloops is $2,300, with plane changes in San Francisco and Vancouver. Instead, I decided to fly from Salt Lake to Seattle, rent a car and drive to the resort, saving almost $1,000. I will be in Seattle for several days before and after the trip to Sun Peaks. Any Seattle gurupies who might have some free time on the 15th, 16th, or 26th, drop me an e-mail. I'll buy the beer, wine or cocktails. You can buy my kids a soda. | ||||||
| 125 | biliruben Leader ID: 589301110 Tue, Oct 25, 2005, 16:31 | Nice! I haven't worked out my holiday plans yet, but if I'm around, a tasty beverage with Pancho and the panchettes would be sweet. | ||||||
| 126 | Seattle Zen ID: 179472013 Tue, Oct 25, 2005, 19:06 | Excellent! Count me in. | ||||||
| 127 | Myboyjack ID: 27651610 Thu, May 18, 2006, 11:36 |
In the public schools of Amerca's Europeans, Henry David Thoureau's Walden and anything by Walt Whitman are not only inappropriate additions to a list of great writings (unless some random person of color's worl is thrown in), but examples of Culrutal Racism because of there emphasis on the individual From the Seaatle Public Schools website's definition of racism: Those aspects of society that overtly and covertly attribute value and normality to white people and Whiteness, and devalue, stereotype, and label people of color as “other”, different, less than, or render them invisible. Examples of these norms include defining white skin tones as nude or flesh colored, having a future time orientation, emphasizing individualism as opposed to a more collective ideology, defining one form of English as standard, and identifying only Whites as great writers or composers. A school that discourages individualism, teaches kids it's inappropriate to think outside the collective, doesn't believe in standard English, and would call someone with a list of the five greatest writers in the English language if they didn't include a black man, a racist.....yeah boy. Zen, I hope you're already scouting out private schools for that bun you have in the oven because the numbnutz that run thepublic schools have gone beyond ay lunacy that Europe could have though up. | ||||||
| 128 | Perm Dude Dude ID: 030792616 Thu, May 18, 2006, 11:43 |
Wow. For all the time and effort that public schools put into student self-esteem work this attempt to brand individualism as a bad thing is just wacked. The Borg have taken over the SPS. Homeschool, Zen! | ||||||
| 129 | Myboyjack ID: 27651610 Thu, May 18, 2006, 11:51 | BTW,does anyone know what "having a future time orientation" means. Sounds just terrible. | ||||||
| 130 | biliruben Leader ID: 589301110 Thu, May 18, 2006, 12:19 |
Aw y'all are obviously just racists. Seriously, what do you expect when you create new a position for a Director Equity and Race relations. You are going to have some self-selection issues when considering who would apply for that job, and subsequently populate these webpages. | ||||||
| 131 | Seattle Zen ID: 46315247 Thu, May 18, 2006, 12:29 |
One ill-advised clause in a long-winded, poorly edited paragraph is not enough for me to go the private school route, MBJ. After reading the "Equity vs. Equality" section, it looks like they equate individualism with assimilation, which is way too simplistic. How in the world did you come across this? | ||||||
| 132 | Perm Dude Dude ID: 030792616 Thu, May 18, 2006, 12:31 | The irony, Zen, is that these are school documents. They should all be getting A's on their documents. No long-winded or poorly-edited paragraphs. | ||||||
| 133 | biliruben Leader ID: 589301110 Thu, May 18, 2006, 12:39 |
...I hope you're already scouting out private schools... That's actually part of the problem. Seattle saw a huge migration into private schools, particularly whites, in the early 70s. You can speculate on the causes for this, but the end result is that Seattle schools have been neglected by the power elite who don't give a fig's butt about them, because their little Johnny or Suzie goes to Stuck-Up Academy up on the hill. | ||||||
| 134 | Myboyjack ID: 27651610 Thu, May 18, 2006, 12:44 |
One ill-advised clause in a long-winded, poorly edited paragraph is not enough for me.... OK, maybe - although the entire page is pretty goofy, I think (all that "whiteness = oppressor garbage.) For me though, it's worse than "ill-advised" or "poorly written". Individualism is as core and American value as is free speech or religious tolerance. That offennding paragraph is as bad as one from some Mississippi school that might endorse Christianity as the preferred religion of the school. Just remember to be equally charitable when you are pointed to some sore thumb in your beloved "fly-over" country, you know. I saw a link to this on Volokch's website. | ||||||
| 135 | biliruben Leader ID: 589301110 Thu, May 18, 2006, 12:49 | Future Time Orientation for career is a personality characteristic defined as the "general capacity to anticipate, shed light on and structure the future of one's career. (Gjesme, 1983)" Those who score high in the construct are likely to spend more time thinking about their future career and engaging in career development activities for the benefit of their future career than those who score low in the construct. | ||||||
| 136 | Myboyjack ID: 27651610 Thu, May 18, 2006, 12:54 |
That's actually part of the problem. Whatever the problem is, the solution is not a repudiation of indivdualism. Whatever, the solution is, I'd be damned if I'd sacrifice my childrens' education on the alter of the greater good via grouphtink. I'm all for the community fixing schools and and providing for the education of its children (I happen to think that the one-size-fits-all approach of public schools is basically helladumb and would be for all private, subsidized schools, but whatever)- but, if my kids are better off in the Academy on the Hill, then that's where they'll be - they're my first priority. | ||||||
| 137 | Madman ID: 230542010 Thu, May 18, 2006, 12:56 |
br 135 -- holy geez, br. If that's the definition of Future Time Orientation, then no school ought to allow students to have that. End sarcasm. What a racist statement (quote in MBJ 127). "Engaging in career development activities" isn't a "white" characteristic, it's something everyone should have. What is the school supposed to teach kids, to sit on their hands and ignore the future consequences of their actions? Why the bleep should you study, then? Someone please tell me I missed something; I just read this quickly. | ||||||
| 138 | biliruben Leader ID: 589301110 Thu, May 18, 2006, 13:04 |
You, and a good portion of Seattlites both, MBJ. You would fit in quite nicely around here. Given the sorry state of schools in this town, it will be a difficult decision if and when I'm confronted with it, because you are right. Societal choices are very different from personal choices. I try to find a solution which both is satisfactory for me/my family but doesn't at the same time undermine the common good. Usually that path is easier and more rewarding than you would think, though often contrary to conventional wisdom. It this case, I would likely seek out a public school that was decent and try and make it better. With the right advantages and parental involvement, a kid can excel in most any environment. My worry is for the kids who don't have many advantages or their parents aren't always there. Those kids would benefit the most from a high-quality school, yet they are the least likely to attend one. | ||||||
| 139 | Seattle Zen ID: 46315247 Thu, May 18, 2006, 13:10 |
Just remember to be equally charitable when you are pointed to some sore thumb in your beloved "fly-over" country, you know. Fair enough. That chart you linked to in post 133 can't all be blamed on white flight to private schools. The demographics of the city have changed dramatically. As you are well aware, back in the early 70's young families could afford homes in the city limits. Now only two income families who wait to have their one child until they are forty can afford the half million dollar single family dwelling. I can't find a link, but I thought I had read that Seattle had the second highest percentage of private school enrollment of the nation's biggest cities, which surprised me. How many big city schools score higher on the standardized tests than the state average? Seattle does. | ||||||
| 140 | biliruben Leader ID: 589301110 Thu, May 18, 2006, 13:17 |
I've heard (from Ben, of course - he politics for Mary Bass on the School Board) that busing, along with other factors pushing kids out of their neighborhood schools, was a big factor in the private school migration. Whether they fled Franklin for Seattle Prep or Bellevue High doesn't much matter in my mind. Seem reason and same result. | ||||||
| 141 | biliruben Leader ID: 589301110 Fri, Jun 02, 2006, 01:03 |
Op-ed in the PI using the, shall we say, interesting definition of racism at the Seattle Schools web page as an argument for vouchers. The racism page is now gone, as I suspected it would be. | ||||||
| 142 | Seattle Zen ID: 46315247 Fri, Jun 02, 2006, 11:08 |
 I guess we should thank Volokch for blowing the lid off this goofiness. | ||||||
| 143 | Myboyjack ID: 27651610 Fri, Jun 02, 2006, 11:25 |
Sweet op/ed, bili: Whenever there is a single official school system for which everyone is compelled to pay, it results in endless battles over the content of that schooling. This pattern holds true across nations and across time. Think of our own recurrent battles over school prayer, the Pledge of Allegiance, the teaching of human origins, the selection and banning of textbooks and library books, dress codes, history standards, sex education, etc. Similar battles are fought over wearing Islamic headscarves in French public schools and over the National Curriculum in England. There is an alternative: cultural détente through school choice. Historically, societies have suffered far less conflict when families have been able to get the sort of education they deemed best for their own children without having to foist their preferences on their neighbors. yup. | ||||||
| 144 | Mattinglyinthehall Leader ID: 01629107 Fri, Jun 02, 2006, 12:48 | I don't know that I disagree with the greater point but I sure would like to see that last sentence in post 143 backed up. | ||||||
| 145 | Tosh Leader ID: 057721710 Tue, Jun 13, 2006, 02:37 |
Which community boasts the highest concentration of brainpower -- and therefore can claim to be America's smartest big city? The answer is Seattle, according to a new study by Bizjournals.com. An analysis of U.S. Census Bureau data puts Seattle's No. 1 ranking in perspective: -- Forty-seven percent of Seattle's adults hold bachelor's degrees, the strongest proportion of college-educated residents in any big city. It's nearly double the U.S. average of 24.4 percent. -- Seattle is second to Washington, D.C., in the share of people with advanced diplomas. Twenty-one percent of Washington's adults have earned graduate or professional degrees, followed by Seattle at 17 percent. The national average is 8.9 percent. San Francisco and Austin are the runners-up in the Bizjournals.com study, which ranks the relative brainpower of 53 large communities. | ||||||
| 146 | sarge33rd ID: 52544313 Tue, Jun 13, 2006, 12:20 |
#1 Seattle, #2 San Fransisco, #3 Austin...hmmmmm Top 3 in educated population are all decidedly "liberal" cities. Draw your own conclusions re conservatism. | ||||||
| 147 | The Treasonists Donor ID: 171572711 Tue, Jun 13, 2006, 12:55 | All big cities are liberal. | ||||||
| 148 | sarge33rd ID: 52544313 Tue, Jun 13, 2006, 13:01 | Really? So which Presidential candidate carried Oklahome City? Kansas City? Dallas/Ft Worth? (Just to select a few. I havent bothered to look it up. but IIRC...these cities fall into decidedly "red" geographies.) | ||||||
| 149 | steve houpt ID: 451161019 Tue, Jun 13, 2006, 13:56 |
Stats - you can make them say anything you want. Sarge - every once in a while someone throws a fat one I can't resist and have to post. Draw your own conclusions re liberalism. :):):) Look at the some of the cities at the bottom of the list: Miami, Cleveland, Detroit, Baltimore, Philadelphia, St Louis, Milwaukee, Los Angeles - just a guess that they have democratic mayors and voted for Kerry - what's it prove - nothing - just without school choice and the help of the democratic backed teachers union, you can keep all those in the inner cities uneducated and voting blindly as a block. What's different about those 'liberal' cities? Seattle stats Among the 23 Living Cities, Seattle has the second-lowest proportion of non-white and Hispanic residents. - Also; Residents of Seattle are young, mobile, and mostly childless. By a wide margin, people in their late 20s and early 30s make up Seattle's largest age groups. Because of this age tilt, fewer than 20 percent of city households contain children, and Seattle households are smaller than those in any other large U.S. city. Select states and city. Census - select state and city Seattle - 70% white; 8% black [what? Seattle no HUD housing or projects? Priced the poor and minorities out of Seattle?] Los Angeles - 47% white; 11% black; [46% reporting some Hispanic or Latino origin] Cleveland - 42% white; 51% black Miami - 66% white; 22% black [but also states 65% report some Hispanic or Latin origin] Detroit - 12% white; 82% black Baltimore - 32% white; 64% black Philadelphia - 45% white; 43% black | ||||||
| 150 | biliruben Leader ID: 589301110 Tue, Jun 13, 2006, 14:13 |
Playing the race card, Steve? ;) You are going to have to spell out your point. Yes, Seattle is a pretty Vanilla city, particularly if you ignore the asian, native and pacific island population. What's your point? That educational opportunities in this country suck for blacks? That would seem to be an argument for quotas in our public universities, but I'm sure you aren't advocating that. | ||||||
| 151 | Mattinglyinthehall Leader ID: 01629107 Tue, Jun 13, 2006, 14:15 | Nice to see you're still checking in, steve. Sure wish you'd grace us a little more often. | ||||||
| 152 | GoatLocker Sustainer ID: 060151121 Tue, Jun 13, 2006, 14:22 |
Steve, Good to see you post. Drop me an email if you get a chance. Cliff | ||||||
| 153 | sarge33rd ID: 52544313 Tue, Jun 13, 2006, 14:51 |
Mr Houpt...if it requires that I "bait" you, to draw a post from your keyboard...then I'll consider my honorable duty to do so. :) | ||||||
| 154 | Seattle Zen ID: 46315247 Mon, Jul 17, 2006, 03:24 |
 Reason #675,989 for loving Seattle, stumbling onto an art exhibition that is so very cool.  These photos don't do this justice. Myrtle Edwards park is where Hempfest takes place. I was cruising through today and saw this for the first time. There were hundreds of these ingeniously stacked piles of rock or rock and driftwood. Met the artist, Stacker, and thanked him for the amazing display he has put on. | ||||||
| 155 | Myboyjack Dude ID: 014826271 Mon, Jul 17, 2006, 06:23 | Looks both racist and sexist to me. | ||||||
| 156 | Boldwin ID: 46651516 Mon, Jul 17, 2006, 17:19 |
It looks a bit self-conscious and self-promoting to me. Next weeks' exhibit, Whistler will perform impromtu whistle performance. | ||||||
| 157 | Jag ID: 47657159 Wed, Jul 19, 2006, 10:41 | Due to the length of this post, I am unable to read it all. By saying Seattle is America's Europe does this mean their men don't work and their women have hairy armpits? | ||||||
| 158 | biliruben Leader ID: 589301110 Tue, Aug 22, 2006, 15:52 |
I really liked this:  Last Friday, on the way home from work, I witnessed an accident. It probably wouldn't have been that memorable, but the car in front of me rear-ended a cop car. Brilliant. | ||||||
| 159 | soxzeitgeist ID: 22642318 Tue, Aug 22, 2006, 16:02 |
Funniest. Story. Ever. That's why the NPS requires us to follow a 4 second following distance. | ||||||
| 160 | Matt S ID: 33644316 Tue, Aug 22, 2006, 16:49 | Jag, you have evidently not ventured into ANY pit of a European woman. I can tell you from recent experience there is NOTHING hairy about them. | ||||||
| 161 | Boldwin ID: 46651516 Tue, Aug 22, 2006, 20:04 | Still mellow after all these hours. | ||||||
| 162 | Myboyjack ID: 8216923 Thu, Jan 31, 2008, 13:27 |
Seattlites will be envious [T]he [Bakersfield} City Council ... voted 8-1 Tuesday night to tell the [Gay and Lesbian Alliance] that its Shattuck Avenue [office] "is not welcome in the city, and if homesexuals' rights activists choose to stay, they do so as uninvited and unwelcome intruders." | ||||||
| 163 | nerveclinic ID: 105222 Fri, Feb 01, 2008, 18:32 |
mbj post 162 what's your point? | ||||||
| 164 | Tree ID: 3533298 Thu, Jun 05, 2008, 12:03 |
ah, those open-minded Seattlites. :o) Lesbian kisses at game ignite Seattle debate | ||||||
| 165 | biliruben ID: 33258140 Thu, Jun 05, 2008, 15:47 |
She works at Cowgirls, Inc, one of those places where the bartenders dance on the bar. I've seen women who work there dressed in not much more than chaps and a leather thong trying to lead drunken baseball fans back there after games. My guess is it's a publicity stunt blown out of proportion to get press. That said, Seattle is oddly prudish for how progressive we think we are. I doubt the same-sex thing was the problem. | ||||||
| 166 | rockafellerskank Dude ID: 27652109 Fri, Jun 06, 2008, 12:29 | Isn't it odd/ironic they (and many baseball stadiums) offer a "Kiss Cam" and then discourage kissing (unless you are on camera). I wonder if they have ever zoomed in on any obvious girl/girl or boy/boy couples for the big screen cam? | ||||||
| 167 | biliruben ID: 33258140 Fri, Jun 06, 2008, 13:30 | My guess is that it was significantly more than just a peck on the lips, at least my imagination says it was! | ||||||
| 168 | Perm Dude ID: 2256610 Fri, Jun 06, 2008, 13:48 | Maybe it was the dildo they were waiving around... | ||||||
| 169 | biliruben ID: 33258140 Fri, Jun 06, 2008, 13:54 | Dang, PD! Your imagination is better than mine. | ||||||
| 170 | Pancho Villa ID: 51546319 Tue, Dec 16, 2008, 22:35 |
As most of you know, my older brother lost his eldest son in a tragic incident over two years ago. This past summer Dan was fortunate to be able to retire at age 59. In the spirit of our father - world-renown adventurer, naturalist and ornithologist - Dan has taken his passion for underwater diving and parlayed it into his first venture into the world of nature publishing(on his own dime, no less). Seattlites should be especially interested in Dan's dedication to the preservation of Puget Sound and its inhabitants. Critters, Creatures and Kelp | ||||||
| 171 | biliruben ID: 34435239 Fri, Mar 25, 2011, 00:03 |
 Yum? Yuck? | ||||||
| 172 | Boldwin ID: 46243212 Fri, Mar 25, 2011, 01:15 | PR genius: Don't forget to put broccoli in it. | ||||||
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