Forum: base
Page 16317
Subject: RIBC - Discussion #3

  Posted by: Guru - [2524958] Mon, Mar 08, 2004, 09:52
New week, new thread.

Links: Draft picks     roster grid

We're back on the 6 hour clock, same standards as last week. My objective for the week is to complete round 17.

Once we complete the 10th round, I'll set up a new draft thread for rounds 11+.
 
1darkside
      Dude
      ID: 3590317
      Mon, Mar 08, 2004, 10:06 		Hey, Guru...looks like you need to fix the grid on KKB's entry. You've got Cordero in the OF. Thanks, BTW, for doing that...it's a nice way to look at the draft results thus far.
 
3Guru
      ID: 2524958
      Mon, Mar 08, 2004, 10:09 		Cordero relocated. Thanks.
 
4blue hen
      ID: 331038201
      Mon, Mar 08, 2004, 12:12 		40 homers apiece from Edmonds, Burnitz, and JuanGone. Or 10 between em. I'm pretty happy with it though...
 
5Trip
      Donor
      ID: 13961611
      Mon, Mar 08, 2004, 14:28 		Not a good day...

First Padres: Nevin injures shoulder again 11:38 am EST (Fanball)

then Marlins: Lowell may have an MRI this week 11:44 am EST (Fanball)

and finally Sheffield could be out two to three months 2:03 pm EST (AP)
 
6KrazyKoalaBears
      Leader
      ID: 517553018
      Mon, Mar 08, 2004, 14:34 		So picking Abreu over Sheffield isn't looking like such a bad decision... not that I ever thought it was.
 
7Guru
      ID: 2524958
      Mon, Mar 08, 2004, 14:54 		I got some good news on Thome. Sounds like he could be ready for Opening Day, as the broken finger won't require a pin.
 
8Trip
      Donor
      ID: 13961611
      Mon, Mar 08, 2004, 15:15 		MITH -

Rhodes is long gone.

I am having a bad enough day without having my player taken in the 5th round being re-selected in the 11th.
 
9Mattinglyinthehall
      Leader
      ID: 1629107
      Mon, Mar 08, 2004, 15:18 		Oops. I'll fix that now.
 
10blue hen
      ID: 331038201
      Mon, Mar 08, 2004, 15:26 		I think I'm happier with the Thome news than Guru at this point, but I've got Sheffield in another league.

Of course, when you're a blue hen, every day is a good day.
 
11blue hen
      ID: 331038201
      Mon, Mar 08, 2004, 15:27 		Him neither MITH. Pay attention.

Did we really need another thread? It's hard to hit control-F in two different places.
 
12J
      ID: 4423249
      Mon, Mar 08, 2004, 15:29 		damn, I was hoping Looper would make it back, but instead he gets drafted twice!!!! :(
 
13smartone @work
      Donor
      ID: 29452720
      Mon, Mar 08, 2004, 15:36 		Guru, I agree with hen and would recommend to continue with the original thread
 
14Mattinglyinthehall
      Leader
      ID: 1629107
      Mon, Mar 08, 2004, 15:38 		Wow. Sorry.
 
15Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Mon, Mar 08, 2004, 15:50 		I'm trying to conserve some bandwidth. As the draft continues to progress, I don't want to have hundreds of obsolete picks continually reloading over and over again.

If you use control-F to search for previously drafted names, do it on the roster grid page. It is usually updated within several picks.

 
16TaRhEElKiD
      ID: 150521415
      Mon, Mar 08, 2004, 20:05 		Nice pick with LeCroy Peter

THK
 
17Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Mon, Mar 08, 2004, 20:17 		smartone, your rationale is now due for 9.08 (Crawford)
 
18smartone
      ID: 3525976
      Mon, Mar 08, 2004, 20:52 		J, you are up to pick
 
19Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Mon, Mar 08, 2004, 20:53 		Just curious - was Jason Bay on anyone's imminent radar? Just wondering how much, if any, I jumped the gun.
 
20KrazyKoalaBears
      Leader
      ID: 517553018
      Mon, Mar 08, 2004, 21:01 		On the radar? Yes. Likely to pick him? No.

I'm not too keen on his shoulder surgery, especially with Rotowire saying things like, "the next hurdle for him will be making throws from the outfield" as recently as today. He could be a solid sleeper pick at this point, but I was willing to let him go to someone who wanted to take the risk.

 
22Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Mon, Mar 08, 2004, 21:26 		I researched Bay, having had him on my G20 team last year, and I wouldn't have picked him until late in the draft. High risk, high reward.
 
23Trip
      ID: 2210302613
      Mon, Mar 08, 2004, 21:42 		Statistically, Bay was the 4th highest rated OF on my sheet. That being said, I had 10 OF ahead of him in my finalized rankings. I think you could have waited another round on him.
 
24Species
      Leader
      ID: 7724916
      Tue, Mar 09, 2004, 01:24 		For once Guru, not on my imminent radar.
 
25Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Tue, Mar 09, 2004, 09:26 		Ref is on the clock until 10:29 ET, and then smartone can pick.

We only got in 19 picks yesterday, which is a little behind last week's pace. Last week, we averaged about 26 picks each weekday.
 
26Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Tue, Mar 09, 2004, 10:32 		I'm here, won't take me long.
 
27smartone @work
      Donor
      ID: 29452720
      Tue, Mar 09, 2004, 10:44 		Ref, I will wait for your pick (but I have a meeting shortly)
 
28Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Tue, Mar 09, 2004, 10:44 		I should have put 1b/3b in the draft pick as he will be my 3B.
 
29smartone @work
      Donor
      ID: 29452720
      Tue, Mar 09, 2004, 10:50 		Trip you are up!
 
32Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Tue, Mar 09, 2004, 12:09 		darkside - your latest rationale mentioned the name of someone who is still available. We agreed not to do that. I edited it out for now, and will re-insert it once he is taken.

Not a big deal, but I just wanted to call your (and everyone's) attention to this. We're now in the part of the draft where this is likely to be a more common occurrence.
 
33Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Tue, Mar 09, 2004, 12:11 		smallwhirled - I whacked your post #31 for the same infraction.
 
34Trip
      Donor
      ID: 13961611
      Tue, Mar 09, 2004, 12:12 		I saw that and was not the reason I chose Woody, but it is irritating in that it almost made me not choose him.

Same deal for smallwhirled's comment, watch your postings folks.
 
35darkside
      Dude
      ID: 3590317
      Tue, Mar 09, 2004, 12:23 		My apologies. An oversight, albeit one that I could have easily avoided.
 
36Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Tue, Mar 09, 2004, 12:24 		I'll bet my 12th round pick raised an eyebrow or two.

Smartone, your rationale for the Wilkerson pick is now due.
 
37darkside
      Dude
      ID: 3590317
      Tue, Mar 09, 2004, 12:27 		It did raise mine a bit...it's a mess in Chicago now, but Marte put up great numbers last year when given the chance.

But, who am I to talk when I drafted a closer who hasn't pitched in over a year.
 
38smallwhirled
      ID: 26229421
      Tue, Mar 09, 2004, 12:36 		Wow, I hadn't even looked back in the other thread. Sorry about that guys, I didn't mean to post something that wasn't allowed. I'll hold off for now.
 
39Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Tue, Mar 09, 2004, 12:41 		I've been keeping track of pro forma league standings as the draft progresses, using the projections of each of RotoWire, RotoWorld, and RotoTimes. Admittedly, it does not compensate very well for position differentiation (i.e., teams that have filled the difficult slots are at a current disadvantage to teams which still have them vacant), although I do try to subjectively compensate for that, at least when evaluating my own team's relative strengths and needs.

I don't want to divulge too much now, because I don't want to sway the draft, nor tip my particular hand in any way.

But KKB, you've mentioned RotoWire projections a few times, and the early returns suggest that you're pinning your hopes on them. Using RotoWire projections, your team ranks almost at the top. Using the other two sets, you are almost at the bottom. I haven't drilled down to see where the differences are, but your team shows one of the biggest biases, and based on your occasional comments, I suspect it's not coincidental.

FWIW, I think that the RotoWire projections are better than the other two, on balance. I'm probably least impressed with those from RotoTimes, as they seem to be the most heavily influenced by last year's actual results.
 
40Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Tue, Mar 09, 2004, 12:42 		Draft is going at lightning speed now. While the picks may seem harder, I think it may be a little easier now because most people agree with the top picks and the rest are kind of all over the place. For instance, the only pick taken who was on my list between my last two picks was Ibanez. As we try and fill out our lineups, I think there will be even more differentiation for the next few rounds.

Marte has been geting attention lately. I don't think Koch is the answer. Even if Koch starts out the season, I don't expect him to last long. I like Marte. Not sure if I would have taken him this high when that job is up in the air, but he could be absolutely HUGE if/when he closes. I don't think it's a bad pick at all. He just wasn't on my radar.
 
41Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Tue, Mar 09, 2004, 12:45 		Don't sweat it, smallwhirled. It's pretty obvious from the draft so far that no one is going to slip through the cracks. Still, we're going to try to keep everyone honest.

As an aside, smallwhirled was one of the 16 original invitees to join this league, and one of the very few to turn it down - due to too many competing time demands. We're always happy to have your comments, sw.
 
42blue hen
      ID: 331038201
      Tue, Mar 09, 2004, 12:53 		Don't tell anyone, but Smallwhirled is doing a GREAT job of running my team from the inside...
 
43smartone @work
      Donor
      ID: 29452720
      Tue, Mar 09, 2004, 12:54 		#36 Guru: Marte was close to the top of my list but I couldn't dare to pick a player (at this relatively early stage of the draft) that I can't recall seeing play.

Wilkerson rationale: posted
 
44KrazyKoalaBears
      Leader
      ID: 517553018
      Tue, Mar 09, 2004, 13:00 		Guru, the projections I'm using are a combination of RotoWire and my own "stuff." They're definitely a basis for my starting projections, but I've made a lot of changes and tweaks to their numbers. Most of my comments about projections come from RotoWire because they seem to be the most consistent with my thinking, but you'll also notice that most of my comments involve where my thoughts diverge from RotoWire. I've looked at RotoWorld and RotoTimes, but usually I'm only using them when my own RotoWire/Personal method isn't yielding a definitive answer.

BTW, I hate you for taking Marte. I was so hoping he would make it one more round. I actually passed on him this go around to bolster my OF and SP. Oh well, I guess all the talk about the instability of Koch this preseason has pretty much put him on everybody's radar... or enough to make him a pick before I was up again. :(

 
45blue hen
      ID: 331038201
      Tue, Mar 09, 2004, 13:00 		Marte is a stud. His actual value may be higher than his value in this league, because Chicago has quite a few options. I'm not in middle-reliever heaven yet, so Marte was a ways off.

I had Carl Everett penciled in as my 4th outfielder, but he went, and Jenkins, my next choice, went too.
 
46smartone @work
      Donor
      ID: 29452720
      Tue, Mar 09, 2004, 13:18 		#39 Guru: I would carefully check the projections of the SLG, OBP and the WHIP which are VERY close in a similar simulation that I am running.
 
47Guru
      ID: 2524958
      Tue, Mar 09, 2004, 13:18 		When I took Bay last round, I had already planned on Marte for this pick. I figured Marte had a better chance of surviving. Worked out OK, although from the sounds of it, I could have reversed the sequence.
 
48Guru
      ID: 2524958
      Tue, Mar 09, 2004, 13:21 		smartone[46] - I'm not sure what you mean. Are you saying that the team aggregates in those categories are so similar that marginal assumption changes can produce significant ranking shifts?

Or something else?
 
49Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Tue, Mar 09, 2004, 13:28 		When it sounds like a foreign laguange to me, when I can clearly see that it's the English language, I won't even bother to ask what Guru jsut said!!! :)
 
50smartone @work
      Donor
      ID: 29452720
      Tue, Mar 09, 2004, 13:34 		you understood me, Guru, it's the teams aggregation in these categories which are close (at least with my numbers). I can't add much more since we are in the midst of the draft...
 
51Trip
      Donor
      ID: 13961611
      Tue, Mar 09, 2004, 13:34 		My translation:
The projections to those categories are so close that if they are off by a small amount, they can produce larger than expected changes in a player's ranking.
 
52Trip
      Donor
      ID: 13961611
      Tue, Mar 09, 2004, 13:34 		errr....team's ranking.
 
53smartone @work
      Donor
      ID: 29452720
      Tue, Mar 09, 2004, 13:35 		I NEED to work on my English (or perhaps to write longer and clearer posts)... sorry, guys
 
54Guru
      ID: 2524958
      Tue, Mar 09, 2004, 13:50 		I don't think those ratio categories are really any different than any other categories. The differences just look smaller because the numbers are fractional.

All of the projections are speculative, and all of the rankings have to be viewed as such.
 
55Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Tue, Mar 09, 2004, 14:39 		I wondered when Nen would be picked. I've been staring at him for several rounds, but could never pull the trigger.
 
56Mattinglyinthehall
      Leader
      ID: 1629107
      Tue, Mar 09, 2004, 14:40 		Same here. Could be a waste of a 12th round pick, or at this point, it could be the biggest coup of the draft.
 
57J
      ID: 4423249
      Tue, Mar 09, 2004, 14:46 		and thats fine by me, gotta take some risks!
 
58beastiemiked
      ID: 2601988
      Tue, Mar 09, 2004, 14:51 		Nice pick J. I really need to update my draft list. If I would've known he was still around(I thought he was long gone) I probably would've picked him last round.
 
59Trip
      Donor
      ID: 13961611
      Tue, Mar 09, 2004, 14:54 		I had removed Nenn from my draft sheet entirely. From what I have read I sincerely doubt he will ever pitch again. If he does pitch, this is an excellent pick, however I simply am not willing to risk it.
 
60Mattinglyinthehall
      Leader
      ID: 1629107
      Tue, Mar 09, 2004, 14:56 		Oh I wouldn't have been able to resist in another few rounds.
 
61darkside
      Dude
      ID: 3590317
      Tue, Mar 09, 2004, 14:59 		I would've taken Nen if he was still around in a few rounds...I've heard they're still being very precautious, but have never heard that he won't pitch this year.
 
62deepsnapper
      Sustainer
      ID: 17103420
      Tue, Mar 09, 2004, 15:35 		Peter N & I were IM'ing before he went to class and he left his pick with me & Ref so I thought I'd warn ya'll before making it.
 
63Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Tue, Mar 09, 2004, 15:41 		yeah, he gave it to both of us to be sure it was posted in a timely manner in case one of us is away and it will likely be me, so go ahead and post his pick when Peter N is up, ds.

Nenn, I had read that he may never be able to come back but that was a speculative comment on one of the sites I was reading I believe. Still, may have taken a chance on him late, but hate to do that at this juncture--though I agree it could be a HUGE coup. Gotta go with your gut.
 
65Mattinglyinthehall
      Leader
      ID: 1629107
      Tue, Mar 09, 2004, 15:42 		not anymore
 
66Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Tue, Mar 09, 2004, 15:42 		Nevermind, ds, Peter is up now, so I posted it. Gotta run.
 
67deepsnapper
      Sustainer
      ID: 17103420
      Tue, Mar 09, 2004, 15:45 		Thanks Ref, about the time I posted, my damn PC froze. Go figure.
 
68Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Tue, Mar 09, 2004, 15:54 		Speaking of smallwhirled, I feel like I'm letting him down by not playing TSN baseball this year. That is by far my favorite TSN game, but it simply takes too much time and committment each day with everything else going on. He was strongly urging me to play and I just can't do it. J and I used to discuss almost every move we were considering and we bounced it off each other and when J couldn't get access, sw took his place (though we all talked before and after). Between J and sw, a lot of strategy has taken place over the years and I'll miss that a great deal. So when Guru says sw knows his stuff, I'll def. second that notion!
 
69R9
      Leader
      ID: 2624472
      Tue, Mar 09, 2004, 15:56 		Aw Ref, we were counting on you to run the Belly! Ah well, I guess the crown passes to sw now. :)
 
70Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Tue, Mar 09, 2004, 15:57 		Btw, I put placeholder up for pete and when I did I noticed that smartone hadn't did his rationale so did it for him too...only to remember that was Guru's pick after their trade. Whoops!
 
71Caper
      Donor
      ID: 1535108
      Tue, Mar 09, 2004, 16:09 		Aw shoot, I forgot to put in the 12.11 next to my pick. Can someone with access add that with my apologies and thanks.
 
72blue hen
      ID: 331038201
      Tue, Mar 09, 2004, 16:15 		Agonizing here. Absolutely agonizing.
 
73Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Tue, Mar 09, 2004, 16:28 		I'll be away from about 5:30-10pm tonight. I don't expect my next pick to be due during that period. But I'm probably not a good person to send a queue to during that period, either.
 
74beastiemiked
      ID: 2601988
      Tue, Mar 09, 2004, 17:03 		I'm here. Just trying to decide between 5 different guys.
 
75smallwhirled
      ID: 26229421
      Tue, Mar 09, 2004, 17:09 		Come on ref....game-time trading, it only really takes 10 minutes if you've got a few guys online to help you through it each day.
 
76smartone @work
      Donor
      ID: 29452720
      Tue, Mar 09, 2004, 17:10 		we made 20 picks in less than 7 hours, NICE!
 
77blue hen
      ID: 331038201
      Tue, Mar 09, 2004, 18:46 		I'm going to try to figure out where Guru is having dinner and surprise him there... Just kidding (or am I).

I left a 1-man q with Ichiro Mach Athletics Guy Smiley. If that guy goes, I'll be around later tonight to pick.
 
78beastiemiked
      ID: 28219820
      Tue, Mar 09, 2004, 19:56 		That was me that posted the rational for Reggie.
 
79KrazyKoalaBears
      Leader
      ID: 517553018
      Tue, Mar 09, 2004, 19:57 		MITH, did you just pick Kim twice 1 round apart?
 
80Mattinglyinthehall
      ID: 217351118
      Tue, Mar 09, 2004, 20:04 		Oops.
 
81Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Tue, Mar 09, 2004, 20:55 		WOW! I had such a big list of players I was looking at and incredibly the entire list has went poof! Back to the drawing board. I really thought we'd be diverging more with our thought processes.
 
82Caper
      Donor
      ID: 1535108
      Tue, Mar 09, 2004, 21:10 		I think I will hold my rationale till the AM. That thread is a real mess right now.
 
84Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Wed, Mar 10, 2004, 09:09 		We managed 32 picks yesterday - 2 complete rounds. Good job! We just passed the halfway mark.

I set up a new thread for rationales in rounds 11-15. There are still some placeholders to be filled in rounds 6-10 as well.


 
85Tosh
      Sustainer
      ID: 57721710
      Wed, Mar 10, 2004, 10:08 		I'll be back for 14.14 mid afternoon Arizona time
 
86Trip
      Donor
      ID: 13961611
      Wed, Mar 10, 2004, 10:36 		Who wants a Q?
 
87 beastiemiked
      ID: 2601988
      Wed, Mar 10, 2004, 10:38 		I can take one.
 
88blue hen
      ID: 331038201
      Wed, Mar 10, 2004, 10:38 		It's a good thing nobody picked Sanchez before I did, because I didn't get home until 1 AM and he was the only guy in my q. I did come home to a series of IM's from somebody desperately seeking Sanchez.

I can't believe we're only halfway through. As evidenced by Guru picking Jason Bay, it's getting quite thin...
 
89Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Wed, Mar 10, 2004, 10:42 		Yeah, I was just thinking that. Half of your roster will have to come from those who are still available! Sobering.
 
90beastiemiked
      ID: 2601988
      Wed, Mar 10, 2004, 10:48 		I came extremely close to picking Sanchez but his lack of Slg% and the fact that I already have 5 OFer's made me think otherwise.
 
91Trip
      Donor
      ID: 13961611
      Wed, Mar 10, 2004, 10:48 		Q sent, it is viable for the next two rounds, but I doubt any will make it back to me. I'll check in again at 1ET.
 
92beastiemiked
      ID: 2601988
      Wed, Mar 10, 2004, 10:49 		Queue received.
 
93smartone @work
      Donor
      ID: 29452720
      Wed, Mar 10, 2004, 10:58 		when is the next pick due?
 
94Ref
      ID: 17259109
      Wed, Mar 10, 2004, 11:01 		Next pick is due now. ;) It's funny, I removed Cameron from my list after I picked Guillen and the rest of my list is gone. Trying to figure out which position I want now...
 
95blue hen
      ID: 331038201
      Wed, Mar 10, 2004, 11:09 		I agree that Sanchez doesn't fare too well in either SLG or OBP, but how many spots will he bring me down? If he brings me down 2 spots each and moves me up 4 spots in SB, then it's an even trade. I think he'll be better than that, actually. I guess that's my rationale...
 
96Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Wed, Mar 10, 2004, 11:29 		One technique that I often use is to draft my rationale before I actually make the pick. Sometimes, when I start working on the rationale, I find that I can't even convince myself, and that helps to prevent me from posting one of those "I wish I had done something different" rationales two rounds later.
 
97Ref
      ID: 17259109
      Wed, Mar 10, 2004, 11:33 		bh, I think if your team is really hurting in speed, that's a good pick. I had to reach and take him in another league for that same reason, but he will hurt you in ob and slg. Still with the added lineup behind him, if he can stop making those silly baserunning mistakes, his runs should go up as well.
 
98Ref
      ID: 17259109
      Wed, Mar 10, 2004, 11:54 		I was looking at Millar. Man you just can't wait and hope that players will get back to you. Guess it's better to reach than not get them at all!
 
99Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Wed, Mar 10, 2004, 11:54 		smartone - your Jenkins rationale is due. (Just a heads up since it's out of the normal sequence)
 
100Ref
      ID: 17259109
      Wed, Mar 10, 2004, 11:55 		Actually, he's not a reach, but since I needed a couple other positions first, I called it reaching, though that's a bad term. I think it's a great pick.
 
101Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Wed, Mar 10, 2004, 11:59 		I was holding my breath that you wouldn't take him, although I had another pick ready to go just in case.

Frankly, I'm not convinced that Millar will be able to repeat last year's results, as he seemed to wear down in the second half. But I still thought he was the best corner option remaining, and didn't expect he'd make it back to me on the next turn.

I have four active hitting slots still open: C, 2B, MI, and DH. The first three are going to have some disturbing statistical profiles, I'm afraid. But, I have a plan. Maybe not a good plan, but a plan, nonetheless...
 
102blue hen
      ID: 331038201
      Wed, Mar 10, 2004, 12:05 		Ruh roh.

Millar was on my list. Not at the top, but not too far down either. I'm not convinced he'll repeat 2003 either. Guru, you're such a homer.
 
103Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Wed, Mar 10, 2004, 12:10 		Actually, my "homers" play in Cleveland. But I can't find much there. So Thome is my Designated Homer.
 
104Ref
      ID: 17259109
      Wed, Mar 10, 2004, 12:13 		I think I'm starting to crack here. W/o revealing too much, my strategy isn't doing too well. I need to rethink it. In hindsight, I should have gotten Millar. Not only do I still need CI, but there is also a DH spot I don't have filled yet. I'll explain why I took Trachsel in the rationale thread, but I'm already regretting it because I lost a good bat and the dropoff is already apparent to me.
 
105beastiemiked
      ID: 2601988
      Wed, Mar 10, 2004, 12:16 		My team is very strange. Only 1 AL player and a lot of players from the same team.

4 Cardinals
3 Phillies
2 Braves
1 Padre
1 Giant
1 Rockie
1 Twin
 
106Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Wed, Mar 10, 2004, 12:23 		bmd - looks liike a lot of exposure to the idiosyncrasies of LaRussa. Could be a frustrating season.
 
107Trip
      Donor
      ID: 13961611
      Wed, Mar 10, 2004, 13:34 		BMD - Looks like my list will hold, crazy day here...I will get my rationales done late this afternoon.
 
108blue hen
      ID: 331038201
      Wed, Mar 10, 2004, 14:21 		Guru - I knew that. Thome is "my" homer too, but you and I both know that you can't not hear about the Red Sox much more than you'd ever want to living around here. Geographical diversity in this league, eh?
 
109Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Wed, Mar 10, 2004, 14:50 		Yeah - although during college basketball season, it's sometimes hard to hear much Sawx talk over all of the din of Huskymania. (Or, more recently, Huskymoania.)
 
110Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Wed, Mar 10, 2004, 14:51 		...and I don't think much of the local chatter has related to Millar, in any event.
 
111Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Wed, Mar 10, 2004, 15:06 		Ref takes a second catcher. That was a surprise.
 
112darkside
      Dude
      ID: 3590317
      Wed, Mar 10, 2004, 15:10 		Guru--unless I'm mistaken, you may want to edit your draft rationale for Marte.
 
113Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Wed, Mar 10, 2004, 15:11 		I had my reason here, but realized it needed to wait for the rationale thread.
 
114Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Wed, Mar 10, 2004, 15:26 		Ref - I expected that.

darkside - you're technically correct. But I didn't think it was possible to discuss Marte without mentioning that other person - nor did I mention his draft status. Perhaps I should just withhold that paragraph until the magic moment, just to be squeaky clean - especially since I called other people on the same infraction.
 
115Species
      Leader
      ID: 7724916
      Wed, Mar 10, 2004, 15:32 		I'm here after a whilwind last 5 days. Long story. Will pick by 4 pm ET.
 
116darkside
      Dude
      ID: 3590317
      Wed, Mar 10, 2004, 15:35 		That's what I figured, but wasn't sure if you were under the misimpression that he'd been taken. To me it creates a gray area if we don't just leave them out altogether (I thought my Woody comment was harmless, but was wrong as it apparently gave Trip pause).
 
117Caper
      Donor
      ID: 1535108
      Wed, Mar 10, 2004, 15:38 		Can I leave a list withy someone, as I will be away most of the evening?
 
118KrazyKoalaBears
      Leader
      ID: 517553018
      Wed, Mar 10, 2004, 15:50 		Caper, send it my way at admin@kafenatid.net
 
119blue hen
      ID: 331038201
      Wed, Mar 10, 2004, 15:53 		Can someone put the draft order in post 0 in the 2nd draft thread?
 
120darkside
      Dude
      ID: 3590317
      Wed, Mar 10, 2004, 15:58 		I second blue hen's request...if possible, that would be nice.
 
121J
      ID: 4423249
      Wed, Mar 10, 2004, 16:02 		bmd is the homer of the group!

I'm intentionally staying away from Mets, just so they can possibly have a good year. I should draft more Braves!!!
 
122Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Wed, Mar 10, 2004, 16:05 		Draft order is now included in the opening post. Good idea.
 
123Species
      Leader
      ID: 7724916
      Wed, Mar 10, 2004, 16:25 		There's the pick that will make or break my season.....Dave Roberts :( Ugh.

I ran the numbers. Roberts only barely hurts my OBP (down to .365 from .367) and does kill the SLG (from .500 to .486!), but I needed the steals and if I'm punting saves I can't punt steals too.

For comparison sake I compared my team to both Slackjawed and KKB's teams to see how they stack up. I used Slack and KKB because they had each picked C's and 2b's, the 2 positions that likely affect the numbers downward as much as any position. KKB actually had the exact same number of hitters in the same positions as I did, so it was a very apples-to-apples approach.

Using the same projections I've been using for the draft, Roberts didn't hurt me horribly in the other categories. I was still ahead of Slack in average RBI, runs and SB's per player (he currently has only 9 hitters to my 10), yet was only .002 behind in OBP and .001 behind in SLG. Conceivably, when Slack picks his next player, that person will bring those two stats down to where I am, thus giving me comfort that the SLG I've been stacking up on to cover a Sanchez or Roberts type was worth it.

KKB has a different dynamic. KKB kicks my butt in runs - has a small advantage in SB, but I smoke him in OBP and SLG and have a small advantage in RBI.

Point of the post - Roberts is a huge risk. There's health, the fact that the Dodgers could be looking to replace him (think I caught Ref in a moment of weakness in a chat session where he said Roberts could lose his job.......boy do I hope that's wrong - some recent ESPN things on the Dodgers team page made it sound like Tracy is really counting on Roberts this year to spark the offense, that he's healthy, blah blah).

Hopefully the projections I'm using that only give Roberts 62 runs and 44 SB's are low. Roberts got 40 steals in only 110 or so games, so if he plays 135 games I am hopeful for 50 steals. I don't believe the Dodgers can be any more pathetic on offense than last year, so 62 runs in 135 games seems low too.

If Roberts loses his job I've wasted a pick and I'm (bleeped) for steals.
 
124Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Wed, Mar 10, 2004, 16:38 		Species, as of now, Roberts is the opening day leadoff man in CF. But liked we talked about in that chat session, LA is not high on him and looking to replace him. The way LA is going, I'd be that nothing gets done and Roberts is their leadoff man this season.
 
125blue hen
      ID: 331038201
      Wed, Mar 10, 2004, 16:58 		Not high on him for a reason, and that reason is walks, which is not relevant in fantasy baseball, except of course in this league.

Actually, Roberts might be fine - steals 30 bases in 90 games, then they trade for Beltran and he never plays again. So he only has 300 AB to hurt your rate stats while accumulating enough steals to help just a smidge. There are definitely worse players out there and Roberts is not a bad pick.
 
126Species
      Leader
      ID: 7724916
      Wed, Mar 10, 2004, 17:28 		I need someone to cut and paste my 11th round draft rationale when they get a chance.

And I wasn't desperate for Sanchez hen! But I did prefer him over Roberts.
 
127blue hen
      ID: 331038201
      Wed, Mar 10, 2004, 17:48 		I'm eagerly awaiting the Valverde rationale.
 
128Species
      Leader
      ID: 7724916
      Wed, Mar 10, 2004, 18:18 		He already has Mantei. Insurance. Did he have to do it now? Debatable. Does it ensure his position with AZ closer situation? Yeap.
 
129blue hen
      ID: 331038201
      Wed, Mar 10, 2004, 18:29 		True, I forgot about Mantei. Maybe I was selectively blocking it out.
 
131smartone
      ID: 35254317
      Wed, Mar 10, 2004, 21:41 		J, the clock is ticking and I think that you can step up and draft in less than half an hour. I will be picking right after (first pick for me today)
 
132J
      Leader
      ID: 49346417
      Wed, Mar 10, 2004, 22:12 		ooops, I picked one minute too early ;)
 
133J
      Leader
      ID: 49346417
      Wed, Mar 10, 2004, 22:18 		very interesting with Urbina. I thought about taking him too, but wasn't gonna go for him that soon. I figured if I had nen & Urbina, one of em would have to come through for me!!!!
 
134jumpball
      ID: 198192210
      Wed, Mar 10, 2004, 22:32 		Guru -- thank you for making attempts at contacting me today about the timeout.

It's been one of those days . . .
 
135jumpball
      ID: 198192210
      Wed, Mar 10, 2004, 22:37 		and of course, i forgot to put the 14.07 in front . . .
 
136blue hen
      ID: 4300290
      Thu, Mar 11, 2004, 02:17 		I'm not working until 3 PM tomorrow but I will try to log in in case it gets back to me before then. I can't really leave a q at this point.

Beastiemiked really has a good team, I noticed. I could have realized that by remembering how many picks of mine he's stolen (even Pat Burrell!) despite me picking before him, but looking at the grid it's quite clear. If we played out these teams right now, BMD would win. Not a good thing because I consider him the best manager here, and he's clearly had the best draft.

Species is also looking good except he appears to be tanking saves. Never a good idea, my friend. I've never been in a league with someone who got last (or even 2nd last) in saves.

I don't have any one team with many players from it, and I don't have any Phillies or Red Sox (and only one Mariner).
 
137Caper
      Donor
      ID: 1535108
      Thu, Mar 11, 2004, 06:56 		Guru and KKb thanks for handling my list. I will update my rationales, such as they are, today.
 
138beastiemiked
      ID: 2601988
      Thu, Mar 11, 2004, 09:18 		Interesting, bh. I was looking at my team and was disappointed in it. Looking around the league, there are a number of very good teams out there, something that shouldn't be a surprise.
 
139smartone @work
      Donor
      ID: 29452720
      Thu, Mar 11, 2004, 09:24 		MTH, as far as I can see, Craig Wilson is not listed as a Catcher in Yahoo though he is listed as a catcher in TSN and perhaps in other sites.
 
140Mattinglyinthehall
      Leader
      ID: 1629107
      Thu, Mar 11, 2004, 09:30 		Interesting. 21 games at catcher last year, though only 15 starts. Thanks.
 
141Mattinglyinthehall
      Leader
      ID: 1629107
      Thu, Mar 11, 2004, 09:39 		Craig Wilson is eligable at C in Yahoo (thank goodness). He just isn't listed a catcher in bigleaguers.com. Look him up under 'players' in Yahoo fant. baseball and he is listed as C, 1B, RF.
 
142Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Thu, Mar 11, 2004, 10:14 		As I recall, this weekend was going to be a problem for several of us. We're making really good progress in general, and should have no trouble completing the draft well in advance of opening day.

I'd be willing to suspend the clock over the weekend - even realizing that this may be tantamount to suspending the draft. How do others feel about this?
 
143KrazyKoalaBears
      Leader
      ID: 517553018
      Thu, Mar 11, 2004, 10:15 		Like last weekend, I'm fine with a 12 hour clock, but will defer to the majority.
 
144darkside
      Dude
      ID: 3590317
      Thu, Mar 11, 2004, 10:17 		Anything is fine with me...extending, eliminating. Doesn't make a difference, I should be able to accomodate whatever is easiest for everyone else.
 
145Mattinglyinthehall
      Leader
      ID: 1629107
      Thu, Mar 11, 2004, 10:19 		I have no expected access issues.
 
146Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Thu, Mar 11, 2004, 10:20 		I agree with KKB. If we don't have some sort of deadline, even the 12 hour limit, Guru's right, it could be tantamount to suspending the draft.
 
147Slackjawed Yokel
      ID: 48927711
      Thu, Mar 11, 2004, 10:35 		I'd previously indicated it would be a problem, but my trip out of town got pushed out a week. So, i'm ok with keeping a clock.
 
148smartone @work
      Donor
      ID: 29452720
      Thu, Mar 11, 2004, 10:40 		I will be fine with an 8-9 hours clock for the weekend
 
149Trip
      Donor
      ID: 13961611
      Thu, Mar 11, 2004, 11:14 		Clock is fine for me on the weekends. If an issue arises I will find someone to send a q to.
 
150Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Thu, Mar 11, 2004, 11:55 		Although not everyone has been heard from, there is clearly an interest in maintaining some forward progress.

Thus, we will have revert to a 12-hour clock for Saturday and Sunday. The moratorium from 1am-7am EST remains in effect. The clock will resume at 6 hours beginning on Monday.

If this creates a hardship for anyone, speak now, or forever hold your peace.
 
151Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Thu, Mar 11, 2004, 12:04 		BTW, I really appreciate everyone's diligence in staying current with rationales. The quality of your comments is excellent.

I note the following placeholders that still need to be filled:

jumpball: 10 Loretta, 11 Valentin, 12 Hunter
MITH: 11 Graves
Species: 11 Phillips

I realize that you may be witholding some of these to avoid referencing players who are still undrafted. That's fine.

But if any of these have already been provided and I simply misplaced them, please let me know.
 
152Mattinglyinthehall
      Leader
      ID: 1629107
      Thu, Mar 11, 2004, 12:17 		Danny Graves' rationale is in post 16 of the current (rnds 11-15) rationale thread.
 
153R9
      Leader
      ID: 2624472
      Thu, Mar 11, 2004, 12:21 		Species rationale for Phillips is in post 20 of that same thread. Just a fyi. Been fun reading up on everyone's thoughts so far.
 
154Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Thu, Mar 11, 2004, 12:42 		Thanks. I just relocated Phillips and Graves.
 
155Peter N.
      Donor
      ID: 257161713
      Thu, Mar 11, 2004, 13:31 		Regarding the draft schedule for the weekend, I'm fine with whatever the group consensus is.
 
156Mattinglyinthehall
      Leader
      ID: 1629107
      Thu, Mar 11, 2004, 14:18 		Nice pick, Peter N, I was looking to land both F. Rodriguezes on my squad. You got the better one, but I think mine is more likely to bring me some saves.
 
157smartone @work
      Donor
      ID: 29452720
      Thu, Mar 11, 2004, 14:51 		J will not be able to pick before 5:30PM today
 
158Species
      Leader
      ID: 7724916
      Thu, Mar 11, 2004, 16:27 		I'm fine with a 12-hour clock this weekend.

I also wanted Francisco Rodriguez :(
 
159J
      Leader
      ID: 49346417
      Thu, Mar 11, 2004, 18:07 		sorry for the holdup guys, my trusty floppy disk failed me. Couldn't open my SS on my computer at work today. Hopefully back to normal tomorrow!
 
160R9
      Leader
      ID: 2624472
      Thu, Mar 11, 2004, 18:08 		Did anyone else notice that blue hen tried to slip Edgar Martinez in at SS? ;)
 
161J
      Leader
      ID: 49346417
      Thu, Mar 11, 2004, 18:11 		haven't you learned yet to ignore everything bh says?
 
162Trip
      Donor
      ID: 13961611
      Thu, Mar 11, 2004, 18:15 		He also drafted Luis Castillo as a pinch runner.
 
163J
      Leader
      ID: 49346417
      Thu, Mar 11, 2004, 18:19 		at least that was funny
 
164Peter N.
      Donor
      ID: 257161713
      Thu, Mar 11, 2004, 18:51 		Thanks for the props. I didn't really expect K-Rod to still be out here this late(considered taking him last round). I definitely couldn't pass him up this go around......
 
165Species
      Leader
      ID: 7724916
      Thu, Mar 11, 2004, 19:01 		I'm going to post my Spivey rationale now, because it has a little humor and a dig at Guru.

=============================================

How do you spell REACH? I'm not sure if it's R-E-A-C-H or S-P-I-V-E-Y

I called Guru this morning to get an update on the draft, as I was travelling away from the office and didn't want to hold the draft up if it was my turn. In a bluff, I told Guru "Do you wanna trade with me to take Spivey, or else I'm gonna". He didn't take the bait, but the more I looked at the dwindling pool of middle infielders that won't absolutely kill your OBP and SLG, taking a risk on Spivey seemed to make more and more sense. Add that to the fact that three of the five teams drafting after me need BOTH a 2b AND a middle infielder (and the other 2 teams need a middle infielder as well), and this pick was one part need and one part to screw the other teams behind me and cross one more 2b off the books.

Spivey has risk but certainly has some upside. He's played 3 ML seasons of 72, 143 and 106 games with a wide range of success in those 3. But if you run a 3-year average, he has a .362 OBP and .445 SLG for an OPS of .807. While OBP and SLG are only 2 of the 5 components, I don't believe any other MI available is capable of an OPS of .800.

I did some research and the Milwaukee papers seem convinced that Spivey is the full time 2b and slated to hit either 2nd or 3rd. In Spivey's career year in 2002, he hit 2nd in the lineup and flourished. Podsednik is a much superior table setter than Tony Womack, so I am hopeful that Spivey will have a solid season as my 3rd middle infielder. Here's hopin'
 
166Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Thu, Mar 11, 2004, 20:45 		Just got in. Again, I had a long, comprehensive list of players I was looking at. They are not even at the top of the list. That was another reason I took another catcher as I was sure these guys were so far down there they'd last another round and get back to me...so much for that!!! I can't believe some of these picks. They are great picks as I've been looking at them for a long time, but some of them, at least ONE of them should have been there for me. It's gonna take me a few mins as I have to re-evaluate the position I'm going to take, let alone player. I love the competition though. Makes me work that much harder. Thanks guys...I guess. ;)
 
167Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Thu, Mar 11, 2004, 21:22 		Dangit Trip. With all the pitching out there, I decided that I'd get Koenrko now and get Edwin next since he'd more likely be there. I guess the moral is this, If you want someone bad enough don't be afriad to reach to get him. That's always been my motto anyhow, but I rolled the dice and it backfired. Good pick. FWIW, if it were a keeper league, I'd have gotten him a LONG time ago.
 
168Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Thu, Mar 11, 2004, 21:25 		Trip, rationale on Patterson, I would have also taken him a long time ago, but I've seen so many ACL injuries and it takes most a solid year before they start to resemble the type of player they were and many NEVER return to form. I hear he is looking good thus far, but I don't see him picking up where he left off. If he does, you got a STEAL!!!
 
169Trip
      Donor
      ID: 13961611
      Thu, Mar 11, 2004, 21:25 		Ref- I knew what you were thinking when you posted before you picked. I bit my tongue...HARD. He was 3rd on my Q 2 rounds ago and I didn't think he'd make it past you then. I owed you for stealing player from me earlier in the draft, we're even.
 
170Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Thu, Mar 11, 2004, 21:57 		Yeah, I figured I'd go with pitching now since there wasn't any MI there, but as I was looking one more time at the hitters, Konerko just jumped out at me. Perhaps I should have not looked at the hitters again. Oh well, this could still work out best for me in the long run, so no regrets as I bet someone would have gotten Konerko if he was there. I still have a few positions I need to get so it's back to the drawing board.
 
171blue hen
      ID: 331038201
      Thu, Mar 11, 2004, 22:12 		I really thought I was making out with the Olerud/Edgar coup, but a whole bunch of players on my list have gone since. I chose both guys over Konerko but may live to regret it. Aurilia was also on my radar, as was Edwin Jackson.
 
172darkside
      ID: 4218517
      Fri, Mar 12, 2004, 00:00 		Sorry guys. It's way past my bedtime and I don't know who I'd pick next even if KKB made his picks. I'll be back online around 8am est.
 
173KrazyKoalaBears
      Leader
      ID: 517553018
      Fri, Mar 12, 2004, 08:16 		I'm here and will make my picks within the next 10-15 minutes.
 
174darkside
      Dude
      ID: 3590317
      Fri, Mar 12, 2004, 08:34 		I'm still researching my next pick, but will have it in the next 30min.
 
175Mattinglyinthehall
      Leader
      ID: 1629107
      Fri, Mar 12, 2004, 08:52 		J. Spivey, E. Jackson, R. Soriano, T. Redding... You guys are shreding my not-so-short list.
 
176KrazyKoalaBears
      Leader
      ID: 517553018
      Fri, Mar 12, 2004, 08:54 		MITH, glad to have been of service. ;)

After having people tear up my lists for the first few rounds, it's nice to finally be getting players I've been looking at for a round or two.

 
178KrazyKoalaBears
      Leader
      ID: 517553018
      Fri, Mar 12, 2004, 09:12 		Well, it's good to see that I wasn't the only one giving Gerut consideration.
 
179Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Fri, Mar 12, 2004, 09:53 		RE 175, MITH, Mine too! I wanted Jackson and Redding originally with these two picks, wo I took Konerko. Now I gotta figure out how to do this.
 
180Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Fri, Mar 12, 2004, 10:09 		KKB, I really thought you might scoop Gerut ahead of me, since you still had plenty of room for an outfielder. As a Tribe fan, though, I suspect I rank him a tad higher than others, since I really want to believe. I was willing to overlook a shoulder problem that might have scared me away - or at least deferred me for another round - if he played for another team.
 
181Species
      Leader
      ID: 7724916
      Fri, Mar 12, 2004, 10:19 		GREAT pick with Wells, Ref. He was at the top of my starters list.

I also love the Gerut pick. Good value here.

Will pick in 15 min......just checking a few of my possibilities out.
 
182Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Fri, Mar 12, 2004, 10:28 		Species, I struggled with that pick. Have had my eye on him a long time, but he's the ace of the Pirates and that will hurt his wins badly.
 
183blue hen
      ID: 331038201
      Fri, Mar 12, 2004, 10:33 		Now can I call you a homer? Gerut is a good pick.

Trip got Jackson and Mauer - that is a fearsome twosome.
 
184Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Fri, Mar 12, 2004, 10:37 		Species, by all accounts I've read, LA is actually worse this year than last. I've read where they're in negotiations for at least 3 diff. guys, but I don't see any of them happening. I don't believe McCourt and have no trust in him as of yet. But, if Roberts plays, I gotta believe he'll be at least AS good since he had that nagging hammy for a big part of the year and came back too early. If he starts out well, maybe great trade bait if you so desire.
 
185Peter N.
      Donor
      ID: 257161713
      Fri, Mar 12, 2004, 10:38 		Well, I'm getting ready to drive back home for Spring Break. Lubbock to Dallas is roughly a 5 hour BORING long drive. I hope to get home around 3:00pm CST or so. I've left a 3-man queue with CanEHdianPride. This queue is strictly for my next pick. I'll address my 17th round pick when I get home if I'm up to draft at that point.
 
186Species
      Leader
      ID: 7724916
      Fri, Mar 12, 2004, 10:47 		Ref - my hope might be along the lines of what hen wrote after I made the Roberts pick: Roberts plays half the season before getting benched, giving me 25 SB's or something, then I can replace him with someone that isn't a SLG/RBI killer. He just stuck out for anyone needing steals, so I felt I had to reach even though those risks were all evident. He is also my 3rd-to-last hitter being picked, so he can be one of the first on my waiver wire if necessary. No, not the best thing to have in your fourteenth round pick, but c'est la vie.
 
187Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Fri, Mar 12, 2004, 11:00 		Species, for the record, my team doesn't seem to be lacking too bad in speed, but if something happened and I was, I'd be interested in talking to you about him for solely that purpose. In that respect, I don't think it's a bad pickup at all. Perhaps high risk, high reward, but he is still the opening day starter. How many sure things are out there that get hurt? When I got Pods, I passed on both Roberts and Sanchez who are specialists in the SB cat. but can hurt you in other cats.
 
188blue hen
      ID: 331038201
      Fri, Mar 12, 2004, 11:23 		As noted, I definitely place Podsednik ahead of Sanchez. But I drafted Sanchez later so...
 
189Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Fri, Mar 12, 2004, 11:28 		Yeah, definitely. I meant after I drafted Pods, I basically crossed off Roberts and Sanchez from my list of speed demons in the OF. Though if they were around in the late rounds, may have revisited them again as insurance.
 
190Species
      Leader
      ID: 7724916
      Fri, Mar 12, 2004, 11:57 		As I mentioned in the rationale and in my "desperation" (yeah right) to hen in asking him about trading me Sanchez, I beefed up my SLG in order to accommodate a player like Roberts. While I think Guru had my SLG in the middle of the pack when accounting for Roberts, at that point so many teams were lacking for C's and middle infielders that I think I'll end up with 10 pts or better in SLG even WITH Roberts.

I just need him to hold his job. He's getting on base at a .412 clip through 6 games (14 AB's) so far this spring. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

I like my Koch pick this late in the draft. Low risk, high reward. He's pitched 3 scoreless innings so far, striking out 3 and only giving up 1 hit. Guillen seems to be giving Koch and clean slate, and it seems as if the closing role is his job first. While Koch's 44 saves in Oakland were likely a fluke, at least he has the opportunity still in Chicago. Marte is probably a better pitcher but I wonder if being left-handed gets held against him.
 
191smartone @work
      Donor
      ID: 29452720
      Fri, Mar 12, 2004, 13:39 		is anyone interested in my 16.09+17.08 draft picks for his 16&17 round picks? I am waiting for J's pick (I sent him an email over an hour ago) and it is likely that I'll go for such trade. If anyone is interested, please email me to mta@oddpost.com (this is a temp email that I can use ONLY THIS WEEK).
 
192darkside
      Dude
      ID: 3590317
      Fri, Mar 12, 2004, 15:02 		Well, J, you definitely just put a crimp in my plans by taking Riske. Guess I shouldn't have assumed he'd make it back to me. Ugh!
 
193smartone @work
      Donor
      ID: 29452720
      Fri, Mar 12, 2004, 15:17 		I'll wait another 15 minutes for someone to trade the next draft pick with me, and if I don't hear anything, I'll just go with .... emmm...
 
194beastiemiked
      ID: 2601988
      Fri, Mar 12, 2004, 15:19 		That's a negative here.
 
195Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Fri, Mar 12, 2004, 15:26 		I'd be interested in making a trade. I get this pick and your 18th and you get my 16 and 17th.
 
196Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Fri, Mar 12, 2004, 15:27 		that should be 17th and 18th.
 
197smartone @work
      Donor
      ID: 29452720
      Fri, Mar 12, 2004, 15:31 		Ref, there is a huge disadvantage for me in your offer. I'll just go and draft the other Redman.
 
198Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Fri, Mar 12, 2004, 15:33 		You are the one that wants the favor. ;) Btw, I don't think it's a huge disadvantage, but you would have had two picks in the 17th if you thought your guy would still be there anyhow and an upgrade of your 18th pick. It's really not bad at all IF you think your guy would still be there.
 
199Mattinglyinthehall
      Leader
      ID: 1629107
      Fri, Mar 12, 2004, 15:34 		There goes Tike Redman
 
200Mattinglyinthehall
      Leader
      ID: 1629107
      Fri, Mar 12, 2004, 15:34 		Are you guys sure there are enough MLB players to finish this draft?
 
202Trip
      Donor
      ID: 13961611
      Fri, Mar 12, 2004, 15:39 		I watched him (Redman) play a few times here in Memphis. He can burn, you knew he was gonna run but there was nothing we could do about it. I was really hoping he would make it back around.
 
203smartone @work
      Donor
      ID: 29452720
      Fri, Mar 12, 2004, 15:41 		Ref, perhaps "huge" was an overstatement... I agree.. thanks for the offer, anyway
 
206Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Fri, Mar 12, 2004, 16:16 		I just set up a new discussion thread. This one is long enough.