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Subject: Gurupie 20 2010 Season 8 Discussion

Posted by: Ref - Donor [539581218] Fri, Apr 02, 2010, 15:00

2010 Supplemental Draft

2010 Draft Discussion

2010 Keeper Declarations

2010 Preseason Discussion

Welcome to Season 8! Waivers have been turned on and our 2009 Champion, Peter N, is ready to defend his title. 19 other managers stand in his way.

We will now move all discussion to this thread. Please re-read the rules. They are very detailed and have a lot of information about Prospects. I re-read them again before I started the season to be sure I wasn't missing anything.

Prospects who are in the CBS database all have a slaary of 1. It's hard to see it at times if you're not looking for it on the CBS player page. It has Salary: 1 and you will get a big yellow flag if you pick one up. If this happens, you need to immediately drop him. There is only one Prospect (Brandon Wood) left that was grandfathered. Remember the P-draft occurs during the All-Star Break.

Waivers will run at approx 2 am ET on Sunday morning. Once waivers run, all players will be a FA unless they were releasedwithin the last two days. Waiver period is one full day after the day he goes on waivers.

There is one game on Sunday night so we still have some time. Many will be enjoying your Easter Weekend. For those of you who are around, feel free to discuss the draft/strategy/players/reaches or general comments. I am not going to start a thread for that as typically only a third or less use it.

Best of Luck!

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Fri, Apr 02, 2010, 16:28

Good work, ref.

Peter N.
ID: 36242921
Fri, Apr 02, 2010, 22:23

I'd like to echo PD's comment. Also, thanks to Tosh, Species and Guru. Their work should not go without notice. Great job!

One final thanks to blue hen for covering for me in a few spots during the draft. I appreciate it. Well done.

I'm looking forward to the 2010 season. Its going to be a challenge, but I'm ready to give a repeat my best shot. We'll see what happens. My focus is on basketball right now. ;-)

Species
Dude
ID: 07724916
Sat, Apr 03, 2010, 01:35

Ref deserves the credit. He is the glue that holds these leagues together.

GoatLocker
Leader
ID: 060151121
Sat, Apr 03, 2010, 17:44

Great, Great job Ref and a big thanks to all that helped him pull this off so smoothly.

slizz
ID: 43133920
Sat, Apr 03, 2010, 17:47

ref always does a great job.

judy
ID: 597401015
Sun, Apr 04, 2010, 13:09

Thanks guys for the invitation -- it sure helps that Twarpy had a good nucleus
for me as I am not sure my drafting was very good... You do not need to worry
about a G24 football finalist repeat. I am still figuring out how to "play" this
baseball fantasy!

thanks to ref, mjd, toral, PD, YR, guru, GO and others who helped with my Q's. It
was a stressful two weeks with the cat, who continues to do well -- stitches out
on Tuesday.

GoatLocker
Leader
ID: 060151121
Sun, Apr 04, 2010, 16:15

Roster Set let's do this.

Guru
ID: 330592710
Sun, Apr 04, 2010, 19:19

Still awaiting dues (or response related to dues) from Allhair, mjd, PD, and Judy.

judy
ID: 48642817
Sun, Apr 04, 2010, 19:34

Dues mailed Friday...

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Sun, Apr 04, 2010, 22:49

MO ready, will be mailed tomorrow.

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Mon, Apr 05, 2010, 00:08

Bad move Iggles. Donovan to Washington. You will regret it -- he now has a running game to protect
him...

Sorry about the football note, but those of you who "know" me, know I bleed green as well as red...

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Mon, Apr 05, 2010, 00:11

On the live scoring page, Santana has two little baseballs next to his name. What does that
mean?? (My other starters just have one.)

Also what is the difference between NCP and NCT? Or, what dates does the P represent. (T =
today, I did figure that out...)

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Mon, Apr 05, 2010, 00:15

The brown baseballs are starts (two usually mean 2 starts that week). If you put your cursor over one of the baseballs, it'll give you the date, opposing team, and opposing starter.

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Mon, Apr 05, 2010, 00:16

NCP = Net Change Period NCT = Net Change Today

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Mon, Apr 05, 2010, 10:30

Is the "period" the previous seven days?

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Mon, Apr 05, 2010, 10:42

I believe that for our league our periods are one week each.

mjd
Leader
ID: 501381415
Mon, Apr 05, 2010, 12:01

Could a commish call up Jason Heyward and drop Nick Massett.

I'd like to get Heyward in as my DH if I can get him in today's
lineup.

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Mon, Apr 05, 2010, 12:27

17: Done. Heyward's 1st call-up.

The best thing about the draft is that it's done! Like many of us, I had a ton of stuff going on and really appreciated the help when needed. I still want to write some notes on it.

mjd
Leader
ID: 501381415
Mon, Apr 05, 2010, 12:38

Thanks Ref, Busy weekend. Company just left.

Did not intend to wait until the last minute.

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Mon, Apr 05, 2010, 15:29

I love all the crazy changes in the standings the beginning of the year begins. Late in the season we're all scrapping for a point or two--with the afternoon games I'm up 35.5!

mjd
Leader
ID: 501381415
Mon, Apr 05, 2010, 16:57

I love when a prospect called up at the last minute hits a 3 run
jack in his 1st MLB AB.

And to top it off, Nick Massett, the guy I dropped, gives up 5 runs
in 1 inning of relief.

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Mon, Apr 05, 2010, 17:50

You're welcome mjd! I just happened to check the site right after yo uposted or I wouldn't have seen it.

One thing that was so frustrating for me last season was all the blowups in pitching I had early. I could never get out of that deep ERA/WHIP hole. Part of my strategy this season was to avoid those types of pitchers. I had a hard time dropping E. Santana and even though he can be great--he wasn't really on this Spring and I didn't want a repeat of last season. His good games just couldn't make up for those stinkers. Zambrano seemed to be better. He had some of the same issues as E last season, but he had a lot more good games. I traded my stud closer for a stud SP. So I kept Z hoping for the best and sure enough, he buries me and now I'm in the hole again from the opening day. Normally, I wouldn't even sweat it--but I can't afford to have a repeat of last year.

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Mon, Apr 05, 2010, 18:36

Here is a brief draft recap for my team:

1.18 Raul Ibanez, OF, PHI - Unsure about this pick, but I needed HR/RBI. He also will get on base. Several guys I was targeting were taken. I was very close to getting Garrett Jones here but thought I could get him next pick. Felt I had to get a player with power and figured Ibanez was more of a sure thing.
2.18 Tim Hudson, SP, ATL - I am shocked I was able to get him. He could be the steal of the draft. I needed another nice SP. From all indications he looks to be back on pace of pre-injury.
3.10 Hideki Matsui, DH, LAA - I think this could also be a really nice pick for me. I really need him to get OF elig. to get me more flexibility.
4.18 Edwin Encarnacion, 3B, TOR - Had to get a 3B here. If Branyan would have had 3B elig I'd ahve either kept him or mre likely grabbed him in the 1st round. I think Edwin has a big upside. Still recovering from an injury so who knows. Have Fox, but will hedge my bets and grab anotehr 3B too if I can find one who can give me power at all.
6.18 Carlos Gomez, OF, MIN - Long time between picks. Looking at a hitter with some SB here as I am not suer what's up with Roberts. Also if I can find a SP with upside here, I could nab him. I really don't want an OF as it's pretty early, but I have a spot if needed. I only had about 10-15 mins to figur eotu a queue as I was going to be gone the following day. I came up with two names Gomez and Duch. Gomez was getting on base well in the Spring and I really need his steals. I like him hitting in front of some nice bats and the full time starter now. Funny enough, Duch was selected right after mine. I might have gotten Gomez later, but he fits the bill. **FIRST GAME 4-5 with HR and SB!!!***
7.18 Delmon Young, LF, MIN - I grabbed him because IMM he fell too far. Again, I wasn't looking for an OF and he's my 5th OF already if Matsui gets elig, but he could force his way into the lineup. A one-time #1 prospect who is starting in LF for a powerful Twins lineup. Kubel could spell him at times, but he has tremendous upside still.
8.18 Aubrey Huff, 1B, SF - Again, how did he fall so far? He doesn't have 3B elig or I'd ahve nabbed him much earlier. SF has some nice sticks and even with the cavernous park he pulls the ball a lot. Low risk/High reward to back-up DLee.
9.18 Brandon Inge, 3b, DET - Again another pick where I was away and had no time to research. When I picked up Edwin, I remembered thinking, if Ine was still there in a few rounds, I could get him to back him up. Inge doesn't have C elig which hurts his value, but he had like 27 HRS or so last year when he was really hurt. Bad OBP, but can be good for some power--esp if Enc isn't ready.
10.18 Colby Lewis, RP, TEX - I was targeting CJ Wilson and Lewis for a long time. I figured I could get CJ here but he went a couple picks after my last pick. This guy was dynamite in Japan and it seems to me that Japan is all about hitting, so with those great numbers--even to inferior batters--I figured he could have huge upside--even in a hitter's park.
11.18 Kelly Shoppach, C, TB - I have been looking at him for several rounds. I thought about making hm my Q in the 6th and prob would have grabbed him there if GOmez and duch were gone. Sure he's in a split time and can't hit righties much, but he destroys lefties and most Cs can't hit squat and they just rot on your team and bring down your avg--that is when they do actually get in thte lineup 4-5 days/week. navarro can't hit a lick and I have a feelign Shoppach will get the majority of time anyhow. If he plays 4 days a week, it's about the same anyhow. I may grab another C late in the draft if the platoon turns out to be based on R/L SP.
12.18 Aaron Cook, SP, COL - Not thrilled with this pick, but studying SPs, I felt he was the best left. He's not exciting, but then again not many players left are, but he pitches for a potent offense who can get him support. He won't K many and his era/whip aren't great, but those Ws can be big.
13.18 Mike Pelfrey, SP, NYM - Almost took him last round over Pelfrey. I think he has upside and his era/whip/Ks might be better than Cook, but doubt the Mets will support him as well. Could be a great pick. If not, nothing lost.
14.05 Mark Ellis, 2B, OAK - Backup for Roberts. This guy can swing the bat and get on base a little. Looked hard a t a C here, but there are a couple starters left and I doubt many need both.
14.18 Ivan Rodriguez, C, WAS - Sure he's old, but he's starting in a hitter's park and he still has some pop left. Will spot start him or more if Shoppach doesn't do what I expect. Always seem to be disappointed with Cs, bt I think with the two I have there's at least hope.

GoatLocker
Leader
ID: 060151121
Tue, Apr 06, 2010, 00:50

CBS off on a great foot as usual.
Website is down.
Wanted to set tomorrow's lineup.

Oh well, always morning I hope.

Great One
ID: 592262415
Tue, Apr 06, 2010, 10:36

Grand Slam on my bench to open the season... nice.

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Tue, Apr 06, 2010, 18:25

He was on my bench in two leagues. So was Marcum.

slizz
ID: 43133920
Tue, Apr 06, 2010, 21:40

lol bh...i can understand the frustration with Yadier, but lets be serious...were you actually considering Marcum @ TEX?

judy
ID: 9729212
Tue, Apr 06, 2010, 23:07

I took a screenshot of today's standings -- will probably be the only time I am in first place all
season, given my past history with fantasy baseball...

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Wed, Apr 07, 2010, 10:04

19th place. I sure hope things change! ;)

Great One
ID: 592262415
Wed, Apr 07, 2010, 12:13

Looks like its my turn in 1st place for a day!! woooo!!!

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Wed, Apr 07, 2010, 13:47

Anyone know if "Pick the Winner" will be around this season?

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Wed, Apr 07, 2010, 17:37

Thanks Cook. 0-2 now with my SPs.

slizz
ID: 43133920
Wed, Apr 07, 2010, 22:30

1-2!

Peter N.
ID: 18317818
Thu, Apr 08, 2010, 19:17

What's up with Miguel Cabrera getting caught stealing in two straight games!?!? I guess he thinks he can run now that he's layin off the booze.

slizz
ID: 43133920
Thu, Apr 08, 2010, 23:03

BH - if it makes you feel better about marcum, I purposely left Ricky Romero on the bench as well...

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Sat, Apr 10, 2010, 16:23

True to form, I am now in the second column of the standings...

judy
ID: 5321213
Sat, Apr 10, 2010, 21:31

help needed --

I just picked up Austin Jackson who is the starting CF for detroit and has played in games already but I
got a yellow warning of total team salary of 1 -- 0.5 is allowed.

HUH?

He was listed as a FA and I am using him in AAA.

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Sat, Apr 10, 2010, 23:11

You picked up someone's prospect. It was after today's freeze and he has been removed from your team.

From top post:

Prospects who are in the CBS database all have a salary of 1. It's hard to see it at times if you're not looking for it on the CBS player page. It has Salary: 1 and you will get a big yellow flag if you pick one up. If this happens, you need to immediately drop him.

The rules have more details on prospects as well as a complete list for assistance.

When going to pick up a young player, take a look at the heading.

14 Austin Jackson, CF
Team: DET | Height/Weight: 6-1/185 | Born: 02/01/1987, Denton, TX | Eligible at: DH,OF | Bats/Throws: R/R | College: None | Exp: 1yrs | Pro Salary: | Fantasy Salary: 1

There will be several of us who do this throughout the season. Wish there was a better way to do it like CBS does with the football practice squads--but they won't do it.

Prospects
(Draft Rounds 1-3, '04; 4-5, '05; 6-8, '06; 9-11, '07; 12-14, '08; 15-17, '09)

MGR: #, Name,Pos,Team,(# Call-ups), *not in db/salary

Allhair: 7.05 Wade Davis,P,TB; 15.06 Desmond Jennings,OF,TB; 16.02 Matt Latos,P,SD
bmd: 12.09 Brett Wallace,3B,TOR; 15.14 Michael Taylor,OF,OAK; 16.07 Hector Rondon,P,CLE
Blue Hen: 12.12 Lars Anderson,1B,BOS; 15.04 Michael Stanton,1B,FLA; 15.18 Kyle Drabek,P,PHI
Darkside: 4.05 Brandon Wood,3B,LAA(1); 9.02 Matt LaPorta,OF,CLE(1); 12.07 Yonder Alonso,1B,Cin
GoatLocker 12.08 Yu Darvish,P,JAP*; 13.04 Aaron Crow,P,KC; 15.02 Freddie Freeman,1B,ATL
Great One 12.03 Justin Smoak,1B,TEX; 15.03 Albertin Aroldis Chapman,P,CIN; 15.17 Dominic Brown,OF,PHI;
Guru: 11.02 Jeff Clement,C,PIT(1); 15.12 Timothy Alderson,P,PIT
Jaydog: 15.09 Jarrod Parker,P,ARI; 16.04 Austin Jackson,OF,DET; 17.01 Michael Bowden,P,Bos
Judy: 12.14 Aaron Poreda,P,SD
mjd:12.04 Jason Heyward,OF,ATL(1); 12.17 Madison Bumgarner,P,SF; 12.18 Tim Beckham,SS,TB
PD: 9.19 Carlos Carrasco,SP,PHI; 15.05 Carlos Santana,C,Cle; 15.13 Ben Revere,OF,MN; 16.01 Michael Ynoa,SP,OAK
Peter N: 15.16 Josh Vitters,3B,CHC; 16.09 Eric Hosmer,1B,KC; 17.02 Jhoulys Chacin,P,COL
Ref: 15.01 Stephen Strasburg,P,WAS; 15.15 Jake Fox,1B,CHC; 16.08 Sean Doolittle,1B,OAK
R9: 13.06 Jess Todd,P,STL
SlackYokel: 12.06 Brian Matusz,P,Bal(1); 13.02 Jeremy Hellickson,P,TB
Slizz 15.07 Josh Lindblom,SP,LAD; 16.03 Devaris "Dee" Gordon,SS,LAD
Species: 9.05 Michael Moustakas,3B,KC; 16.10 Eric O. Young,2B,COL; 17.03 Casey Kelly,P,BOS
Toral: 15.10 Dustin Ackley,OF,SEA; 16.05 Nick Weglarz,OF,CLE
Tosh: 12.10 Buster Posey,C,SF; 15.11 Donovan Tate,OF,SD; 16.06 Michael Saunders,OF,SEA
youngroman:12.01 Pedro Alvarez,3B,Pit; 13.01 Neftali Feliz,SP,TX; 15.08 Jesus Montero,C,NYY

R9
ID: 362452117
Sun, Apr 11, 2010, 03:34

I guess its not a huge deal, but I was hoping Troy Glaus would have 1B eligibility tonight so I could plug him in there for tomorrow. He's got his 5 games in this year. I don't know how long CBS will take to update his eligibility though...

Is it possible to have a commish put him in for me if he's updated before the lineup freeze? There's no chance I'll be awake.
Glaus at 1B
Blake at 3B
Blum at Bench/WW/WTH, is he still on my team?/R9 is drunk

If not I'll just do it for Monday, but any help would be spiffy.

Tanks!
R9

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Sun, Apr 11, 2010, 09:05

Sorry for the mix up guys --

I am still figuring out all this prospect stuff. Thought since I had been starting A Jackson in AAA, he
was a player not a prospect. Yo, Jaydog, he is doing really well -- how come you don't call him up??

REF -- I picked up Keppinger to get to 23 players, so I am OK for now. Will consider getting Andruw
back later... Thanks for your help.

Slizz
ID: 13104129
Sun, Apr 11, 2010, 11:12

I think you're allowed to call up a prospect a maximum of 3 times. jaydog probably wants to maximize that option...kinda like Kershaw's owner did last year.

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Sun, Apr 11, 2010, 12:41

Yo Jaydog -- wanna strike a deal for Austin Jackson???

Shoot me an email!

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Sun, Apr 11, 2010, 12:53

re: 39

I think it is automated at rollover the day he gets his 5th game. I just checked and sure enough he is 1b elig and he just got his 5th game. I went ahead and changed them per your request.

youngroman
Donor
ID: 02934823
Sun, Apr 11, 2010, 13:40

quick decisions in Texas, so I need to adjust. I finally want to call up new closer Neftali Feliz and drop Jerry Hairston. Thanks!

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Sun, Apr 11, 2010, 18:20

uh oh -- way down in second column of standings -- not a good trend... rain cancelled out three
of my guys though...

R9
ID: 362452117
Sun, Apr 11, 2010, 20:06

43, Thanks Ref. For some reason my note to take McCutchen out of my pitching lineup never got posted. Think you could do that retroactively? ;)

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Mon, Apr 12, 2010, 08:58

44: Done

Remember, any commish can call up a player for you and I might not see this thread in a timely basis for your immediate needs.

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Mon, Apr 12, 2010, 13:04

REF -- who are the other commishes?

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Mon, Apr 12, 2010, 18:51

Probably the only day Ludwick will go 4-4, and I moved him to the bench late last night. Not a good start to the year.

allhair allstars
Sustainer
ID: 50902421
Tue, Apr 13, 2010, 13:52

Yes, you heard correctly... I really DO think we should end the season now.

Peter N.
ID: 33241319
Tue, Apr 13, 2010, 20:24

Breaking news...my team blows...well, not really breaking news, lol

slizz
ID: 43133920
Wed, Apr 14, 2010, 00:06

saw romero had a near no hitter andd got excited b/c I thought i started him...only to find out he was on my bench.

take that BH!

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Wed, Apr 14, 2010, 00:21

I was wondering who had him! He was looking pretty damn good, but there was no way they should have kept him in that long--he was clearly tiring. At the very least they should have pulled him after he plunked AJ.

R9
ID: 362452117
Wed, Apr 14, 2010, 02:10

Yes, you heard correctly... I really DO think we should end the season now.

+1 :)

Toral
ID: 4155487
Wed, Apr 14, 2010, 07:58

You do realize, PD, that he had a no-hitter going at the time you suggest he should have been removed.

BTW Buck Martinez and Pat Tabler are old-school -- they never mentioned the no-hitter till it was broken up.

slizz
ID: 43133920
Wed, Apr 14, 2010, 08:32

thats gonna hurt me...lol

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Wed, Apr 14, 2010, 23:49

poor Kendrick ( and by association, poor me), the kid had a great spring but he has been awful
in his two starts in the bigs. I am sure they will be sending him down as soon as Blanton is
ready..

slizz
ID: 43133920
Wed, Apr 14, 2010, 23:54

oh boo hoo judy...phils are still the best in the NL :D

only team that could beat them is SF...and thats if Lincecum & Cain are unhittable.

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Thu, Apr 15, 2010, 00:00

#55: Yes--I was watching the game at the time. And (if you were watching it) you know he was overpitching. When he hit AJ he should have been pulled.

Toral
ID: 4155487
Thu, Apr 15, 2010, 07:58

That would have been a gutsy move, I will admit. I agree to the extent that just before he hit A. J. I thot "someone needs to start warming up" but I confess I wouldn't have took him out during a N-H with a 4-0 lead.

I remember that Nolan Ryan was taken out more than once before giving up a hit, early in his career, because he was walking the whole lineup. With all the stats data bases out there I wonder if someone has a list of all early-removals-before-giving-up-a-hit in history.

Great One
ID: 33326158
Thu, Apr 15, 2010, 09:26

Girardi said he would have yanked CC if he made it to the 9th with the no-no last week.

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Thu, Apr 15, 2010, 09:29

Really? CC looked pretty good in that game. Maybe it was because they didn't want him throwing a CG this early in the season. CC is a workhorse, though.

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Thu, Apr 15, 2010, 12:50

You mean, when he "hit" AJ. Watch the replays - it didn't even come close.

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Thu, Apr 15, 2010, 12:53

Oh, and I'm in first place. Thank you David Price and Jonathan Sanchez.

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Thu, Apr 15, 2010, 19:19

I asked once, but got no nibbles -- is there going to be a "beat the streak" or whatever it was called --
ie., "pick the winner" this year? I forget who set it up but it was fun to play...

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Fri, Apr 16, 2010, 09:27

I just goofed -- picked up ryan sweeney and dropped Kotsay -- -

meant to drop Brantley

if it can be fixed -- thanks.

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Fri, Apr 16, 2010, 10:01

Come on. Be careful.

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Fri, Apr 16, 2010, 11:40

66: I fixed this for you. Note to league that this isn't always a given. Please take your time when making transactions.

Also, I understand there are times when you make a pickup and then change your mind and drop the player you just picked up, but please keep that to a minimum as this puts the player on waivers and unavailable to the rest of the league. No one is doing anything malicious, but there have been times in the past where I wanted the player who was immediately dropped and he was on waivers. I love what Yahoo did a few years back and let that player be a FA again. As a commish, CBS will not let me do anything for my team that anyone else can do for their own team. i.e. I cna't pick up a player for my team who is on waivers like I just did for Judy, etc.

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Fri, Apr 16, 2010, 12:19

thanks ref -- sorry for the troubles...

Peter N.
ID: 33241319
Fri, Apr 16, 2010, 19:44

Yeah, I'm guilty of dropping a guy right after I pick him up. My bad.

Slackjawed Yokel
ID: 47227122
Sat, Apr 17, 2010, 22:43

Commishes - I'd like to call up Brian Matusz from my prospect squad (and drop Danys Baez). Sorry for the fairly late notice, but I'd like to get Matusz in the lineup for tomorrow.

Thanks.

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Sat, Apr 17, 2010, 22:53

19 innings and nothing to choose...STl v NYM 1 - 1.

Lohse is playing LF. The 3 STL left are Carp, Penny and Wain.

Mets have Meija, Pelfrey and Perez left.

I'm going to bed...

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Sat, Apr 17, 2010, 22:57

2-1 Mets! Not yet, Judy.

Species
ID: 203191723
Sun, Apr 18, 2010, 00:19

RE: 71

Matusz recalled for the 2nd time.

Great One
ID: 39342317
Sun, Apr 18, 2010, 20:19

Looks like they are calling up Ike Davis. Gonna be looking to trade either Ike or Morneau (or Freese). 3 guys, 2 spots. Need middle IF help, a crappy closer among other things...

blue hen
ID: 8115717
Sun, Apr 18, 2010, 22:28

Nice one Yokel. Matusz was great. I only have him in one league, but it's H2H and I think he won me the week with that start.

Miraculously, I am still in first. Choo was huge with a grand slam today, and I got saves from Lindstrom and Dotel. More importantly, Carlos Gonzalez hit a homer, showing that the injuries haven't gotten to him. Still looking to trade an outfielder for a third baseman.

Great One
ID: 33326158
Mon, Apr 19, 2010, 15:23

And because of stupid CBS freezes I can't start Ike Davis in his debut. Great.

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Tue, Apr 20, 2010, 22:12

beautiful game by Kendrick and Madson blows it with two fastballs
down the middle...

slizz
ID: 43133920
Tue, Apr 20, 2010, 22:44

phils better get a closer...asap!

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Wed, Apr 21, 2010, 10:03

It's never a beautiful game by Kendrick. Even when it is. But you are right - Madson has some issue. Lidge was moved up to triple A for rehab, so that's good.

Wow, great game from Jon Sanchez last night. I am amazed that my team continues to do well.

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Wed, Apr 21, 2010, 13:44

BH

You obviously did not watch the game. Kendrick was Halladay like.
Masterful.

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Thu, Apr 22, 2010, 09:44

See? That's how Halladay pitches! Masterful.

Oh yeah, I guess I should keep smack talking about G20. I don't expect to be in first place for the entire year, so I need to talk while the talking's good. I now have 95.5 offensive points (out of a possible 100). And I kept Carlos Gonzalez on my bench last night for 4 hits and a steal. Grrr.

Today we've got James Shields facing the hated White Sox. Can he keep the good karma going?

Species
ID: 43252213
Thu, Apr 22, 2010, 14:25

Keep talking. It just makes the fall sweeter for the rest of us!

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Thu, Apr 22, 2010, 15:03

I just lost my motivation - it appears that you ARE able to talk smack when you're in 8th place.

GoatLocker
Leader
ID: 060151121
Fri, Apr 23, 2010, 00:37

Yeh, but I can talk it in 3rd.
Of course, I think I've been here before and dropped like a lead balloon.

But it sure is fun right now.

Great One
ID: 23336239
Fri, Apr 23, 2010, 10:36

Smoak callup, nice. Now I have 3 1B's...

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Fri, Apr 23, 2010, 13:19

I'd like to talk smack being in 2nd place now with my entire bench on the DL or not playing and I've had to cut DL players--but my hitting is in such bad shape right now that I don't see light at the end of the tunnel yet. Also, don't have a lot I can even give up to trade. Really need Matsui to play OF three more times quickly so he can get out of the DH only spot.

Great One
ID: 23336239
Fri, Apr 23, 2010, 16:48

Trade
GO acquires
Carlos Santana (prospect, guitar player)
Aardsma (pirate)
AJ Pierzynski
Chris Davis
PD's 3rd Round 2011

PD acquires
Aroldis Chapman(prospect)
Justin Morneau
Yadier Molina
Cris Carter
GO's 12th Round 2011

Toral
ID: 4155487
Fri, Apr 23, 2010, 17:12

Good trade, PD, congratulations.

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Fri, Apr 23, 2010, 18:10

Great One
ID: 39342317
Fri, Apr 23, 2010, 18:48

Also, when updating the picks and what not, can the commishes call up Smoak for me and drop Burnett? Can wait til tomorrow.

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Fri, Apr 23, 2010, 18:57

GO, this trade won't go through until Sun morning assuming the league doesn't vote against it. Do you want Smoak called up before then? It's 5 mins until deadline for today's game so would be really tight for today, but generally we just call him up when we want them. I can do it after tonights freeze and it will be ready for tomorrow. Or we can wait until the trade goes through or wait until after tomorrow's freeze since I'd be surprised if the trade is vetoed.

I really like Santana. Some other nice players involved too.

Great One
ID: 39342317
Fri, Apr 23, 2010, 19:03

I wouldn't start Smoak tonight anyway, so anytime before tomorrows freeze is fine. I expect to start him tomorrow.

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Fri, Apr 23, 2010, 20:03

Done. Smoak has been called up for the first time.

Great One
ID: 39342317
Fri, Apr 23, 2010, 23:56

Ike almost hit the ball out of the stadium lol...

GoatLocker
Leader
ID: 060151121
Sat, Apr 24, 2010, 09:33

Nice Trade.

blue hen
ID: 8115717
Sat, Apr 24, 2010, 12:28

Talk about selling low on Chris Davis.

Despite the presence of Morneau, I still think GO wins this deal. But mostly because I have little faith in Chapman.

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Sat, Apr 24, 2010, 23:33

6 for 51 (subs included ) is not going to do it. Albert -- you need to wake up, son, and
soon.

blue hen
ID: 8115717
Sun, Apr 25, 2010, 12:00

Downer of a day yesterday. Carlos Gonzalez didn't quite come through in the doubleheader. Still in pretty good shape - I'll take a brief slump if it means my hitters can get hotter later.

100

Slizz
ID: 13104129
Sun, Apr 25, 2010, 12:26

oh shush BH...you're complaining with a 30 point lead!! :D lol

as for GO...that is a great trade. Gets an upgrade at RP and the Smoak monster! Win/Win trade for all involved...

101

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Sun, Apr 25, 2010, 17:49

OK, enough is enough. I'm looking for hitters. I need SB and HRs for starters. I have draft picks or whatever else we can make work. I konw my hitting isn't as bad as it looks right now and will be much better when key players get well, but I can't wait forever on them.

102

darkside
Achiever
ID: 3590317
Sun, Apr 25, 2010, 21:46

I'd like to send Wood back down. Could a commish replace him with Andy LaRoche? Thanks!

103

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Sun, Apr 25, 2010, 22:23

Done. I confirmed he is still eligible.

104

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Sun, Apr 25, 2010, 22:58

(98) Thank you for listening Albert (3/4, HR)-- Now would the rest of you turkeys please start
hitting the ball? (7/37 today...)

105

Species
ID: 493451121
Mon, Apr 26, 2010, 17:19

Can I protest my own trade?? lol....I didn't think Hawpe's quad would land him on the DL! Sheesh!!'

106

darkside
Achiever
ID: 3590317
Mon, Apr 26, 2010, 17:44

Thanks, Ref.

Quit whining, Species....you traded me a guy who got CANCER!

;)

107

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Tue, Apr 27, 2010, 10:37

Man, my day-to-day roster decisions are horrible. Last night, I couldn't get home in time to start Carlos Gonzalez over one of the rained out Dodgers, so of course he hits a homer and steals a base.

The perils of having 5 star outfielders. Anybody need one? Anybody?

108

Great One
ID: 23336239
Tue, Apr 27, 2010, 11:03

CBS makes it more difficult since it doesn't say on the lineup page if that player is in the starting lineup that night. So thankfully I saw Franceour had the big X next to his name in my Yahoo league. Got rained out anyway, but would have been annoying.

109

Species
Dude
ID: 07724916
Tue, Apr 27, 2010, 23:21

On behalf of blue hen:

"Shit, I was really close to starting the INCREDIBLE Rockies OF Carlos Gonzalez tonight.....but I was recently elected Head Dweeb of the ESPN Nerds Society, and tonight was my initiation. But of course, Gonzalez goes off for 3 hits, a double, a triple and 5 RBI!

Anyone need a young, stud outfielder??? My price is 4 1st round picks, your top prospect, and a Hall of Famer"

110

Great One
ID: 39342317
Tue, Apr 27, 2010, 23:23

I'll give you Longoria and Smoak and some Pearl Jam tix RoboHen....

but seriously with Nelson Cruz hitting the DL I'm looking to buy a random OF worth starting. Anyone got anything to sell?

111

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Wed, Apr 28, 2010, 01:21

Get in line GO. I can't even get a lineup of hitters who all play on a given day. Usually its a few of them who don't play--like tonight.

I will say it's good to see bh, gl and slizz in the top three slots after being down so long. Great job!

112

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Wed, Apr 28, 2010, 09:58

Are you kidding me? I've been in that society for about 8 years - no way would my initiation have been so recent.

Pearl Jam tickets are on sale now - I just went to Ticketmaster and put them in my cart.

It's hard to complain about last night - Choo got two hits, and Ethier and Kemp both played a doubleheader (albeit poorly). But Goatlocker gained a lot of ground on me last night - Liriano and Garland both had great performances.

113

Species
ID: 493451121
Wed, Apr 28, 2010, 15:08

I notice there's no denial as to what price you would ask for in a trade for Gonzalez!

114

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Wed, Apr 28, 2010, 23:10

What's with Peavy? Anyone want to take him off my hands???

115

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Thu, Apr 29, 2010, 00:18

I saw that your pitchers really let you down today, Judy.

116

Species
Dude
ID: 07724916
Thu, Apr 29, 2010, 00:26

Another HR for Carlos Gonzalez.

Some teams are so awesome a guy like him can't even crack the lineup. Must be frustrating for his owner.

117

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Thu, Apr 29, 2010, 00:44

If only there was a way to tell beforehand when he would be playing in a place in which home runs are common--expected even.... Maybe in a grid form to really help in planning when he should start...

118

Great One
ID: 243372812
Thu, Apr 29, 2010, 08:59

He should always start him when he's facing Lincecum and Haren, that one I know. I have that in my notes.

119

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Thu, Apr 29, 2010, 10:48

Choo did steal a base (and attempted another). Who knew I should have started Gonzalez over Ethier?

It's better than last year, when I had 8 outfielders and no one at first. Nick Johnson and Daric Barton are essentially the same player - if healthy, will draw 100 walks without much power. In this league, that's pretty nice.

120

judy
ID: 48642817
Thu, Apr 29, 2010, 11:48

Seriously -- who wants peavy?

Yeah-- not a bad day for my hitters (finally!), but the pitchers
were another story...

121

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Thu, Apr 29, 2010, 12:27

I'll take him off your hands. I've got half a Philly cheesesteak sandwich from Subway here. And I'm going to NYC in an hour or so--I can pick you up some snow globes in Times Square.

122

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Thu, Apr 29, 2010, 12:50

PD, are you going to come say hello?

123

Great One
ID: 243372812
Thu, Apr 29, 2010, 13:41

BH - its like the opposite of your Dirty Dozen squad last year where you had like 7 1B types.

124

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Thu, Apr 29, 2010, 13:45

No, this was worst. At least I had Crawford, Dunn, and Upton on that team. In G20 I had Braun, Kemp, Ethier, Choo, A Jones, Cust, Ankiel, and I think a couple other guys, and started Jake Fox for most of the year.

125

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Thu, Apr 29, 2010, 13:45

Where are you? I'm leaving in a bit--heading to see some friends waay downtown at Poets House (on River Terrace). Then a Book Packagers Expo on 23rd.

126

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Thu, Apr 29, 2010, 13:55

I'm in the East 30's. Email me and let's figure it out.

127

Great One
ID: 39342317
Fri, Apr 30, 2010, 18:46

f'n CBS, I can't get Hardy in my starting lineup because of the day game.

128

Peter N.
ID: 33241319
Sat, May 01, 2010, 20:34

Earth to Beckett and Vazquez. Please stop sucking. Thanks

129

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Sun, May 02, 2010, 11:51

Austin Jackson has been called up for the first time.

130

judy
ID: 597401015
Sun, May 02, 2010, 14:48

about time (for Austin...)

131

Great One
ID: 39342317
Sun, May 02, 2010, 18:26

This trying to figure out how to get Freese thing in the lineup thing has been tough. Benched Longoria today figuring I'd avoid Greinke and was pissed when I saw he HR'd.. thankfully Freese with his 3rd game this week with a HR + a 2B... but had I known Ike would get the day off, I would have put him in the UT spot. Stupid late ESPN game.

I'm like the BH OF mess of infields. I can't believe nobody needs a 3B still.

132

blue hen
ID: 8115717
Sun, May 02, 2010, 18:56

Wait a minute. In addition to Longoria, you're talking about Smoak, Freese, Ike Davis, Chris Davis, and Logan Morrison.

You're comparing that to Kemp, Braun, Ethier, Choo, and Gonzalez? Seriously?

The only similarity I see is that there are more players than slots.

133

blue hen
ID: 8115717
Sun, May 02, 2010, 19:02

Wow, Goatlocker had four pitchers today (Gorzelanny, Garland, Liriano, and Wilson) and all four pitched exactly seven innings. Also, three of the four are going to walk away with wins (poor CJ Wilson, who was the best of the four).

Fortunately, he had a bad day at the plate; need more of those or else he'll pass me.

134

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Sun, May 02, 2010, 22:00

OK -- well I start both Moyer and Santana figuring Moyer for 5 runs in one bad inning and a few K's and
Santana for a win with good ERA (24+ ERA tonight...),and WHIP (2.72). Uh oh. However, I also have
Wright (3R HR).

Whole OF/DH went hitless (0/15).

Oh yes and Madson is on the DL -- but Blanton starts tomorrow night.

As ole Charlie (Manuel) would say "That's baseball."

135

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Sun, May 02, 2010, 23:39

And you may ask, why -- on Earth -- did you start both of them against each other?
Well, the answer is that my seasonal ERA is so bad that I figured the combined ERA
tonight from the 2 of them would be lower!

HA!

136

blue hen
ID: 8115717
Sun, May 02, 2010, 23:46

And why do you have so many Phillies? Never second guess starting Santana, but Moyer? He's barely ownable in a league like this. I see a couple pitchers on the waiver wire I like better. AND he's on my favorite team.

If it makes you feel better, I lost my H2H matchup this week on one swing - I lost HR, ERA, and WHIP because he had Victorino and I had Santana.

137

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Mon, May 03, 2010, 09:48

Have you glanced at the FA pitchers list lately?

138

Great One
ID: 39342317
Mon, May 03, 2010, 10:18

Yes BH thats the crew that I've been mixing and matching to get me to 1st in HR's and RBI's and 3rd and OBP and Runs.

139

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Mon, May 03, 2010, 10:30

Oh, I didn't say they weren't off to good starts. Especially Freese.

140

Great One
ID: 39342317
Mon, May 03, 2010, 10:46

Has the league ever considered an additional UT or DH spot?

141

darkside
Achiever
ID: 3590317
Tue, May 04, 2010, 18:38

Could a commish option LaPorta (for the 1st time) and put Tony Gwynn Jr. on my team? No need for it to be on today's lineup. Thanks!

And thanks, Toral, for grabbing Pearce sometime between when I left work and when I got home. Made the decision between an OF, which I need, and a 1B, which I don't, a lot easier!

142

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Tue, May 04, 2010, 18:46

Did someone say they need an outfielder!!?!

143

darkside
Achiever
ID: 3590317
Tue, May 04, 2010, 19:03

Ha. That got a good laugh out of me. Yes, I need a reserve OF. The wares on your shelf are a bit out of my price range, though.

144

Tosh
Leader
ID: 057721710
Tue, May 04, 2010, 22:35

I've never understood how Roy Halladay has only 98% ownership, while someone like Mike Cuddyer is at 99%. I'm guessing it's not an NL-only thing, as I suspect more than 2% of the leagues are NL-only. So do 2% of the leagues not use pitching ... or what?

145

blue hen
ID: 8115717
Wed, May 05, 2010, 00:04

No idea - I've often found the percentages to be a bit funny as well. I could understand someone like Derrek Lee not being owned in a 6 team keeper league, but I can't really fathom a scenario where Halladay isn't owned.

146

Species
Dude
ID: 07724916
Wed, May 05, 2010, 01:11

Re: 141

Done.

However, he already had a (1) next to him. Does that mean he's been sent down twice now??

147

allhair allstars
ID: 3142356
Wed, May 05, 2010, 07:23

Yo 'mish,

Please call up Wade Davis and drop Kenshin Kawakami.

148

darkside
Achiever
ID: 3590317
Wed, May 05, 2010, 09:56

Hmmm...I didn't think I called him up last year, but maybe I did. I really thought this year was the first year I'd used either him or Wood. But, I must say, my memory isn't the best, so I could be forgetting having called him up late last year, I just don't see why I would.

I don't think it will be a problem either way...I'd be shocked if he didn't lose his prospect eligibility this year, so I'll likely have only one more chance to call him up anyway.

149

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Wed, May 05, 2010, 11:25

Everything should be spelled out in the rules. If there is ever a question about how something works check them out. They are complicated at times hence teh attention to detail. Afterall, I often times have to refer to them myself.

Prospects can be called up and sent down twice as long as they are still eligible. When they are CALLED UP they get the (1) or (2) next to their name. When they want to be sent back down, a commish simply checks to make sure they are eligible. If so, a salary is added and the transaction is made. Nothing is done with the (1) as that simply tracks call-ups. If a player is ineligible to be sent down, then he is no longer a prospect and is name will be removed and the owner would be notified and he would have to make the transaction himself since he would lsoe his rights once he dropped him. We check for eligibility at the P-Draft Keeper date (IIRC it's July 5th this season), Postseason and if he's currently called up on your team. IF the threshold is hit at that time you lose his rights as a prospect. If he is not on your team when he hits the threshold, he may remain on your prospect roster until one of those three events occur.

So LaPorta (1) means he's been called up one time--which is correct. He has 248 ABs, so he's eligible to be sent down. The AB threshold is 300.

AA, Davis has been called up for his first time.

150

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Wed, May 05, 2010, 11:29

I do have some extra OFs. I'm looking for steals.

151

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Wed, May 05, 2010, 11:33

I think it is clear La Porta is going to hit his prospect limit soon. Nevertheless, it is disconcerting not to find a record of him getting called up other than a (1) by his name. I don't find anything on the boards here where darkside asked him to be called up previously--isn't that the process?

I realize it isn't technically a rule to post that here, but it should give a little pause that there is no record of a previous callup and the manager doesn't recall asking for a previous callup either.

152

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Wed, May 05, 2010, 11:59

I seem to remember LaPorta being called up - I thought it was strange because he was so fringe at the time and you'd definitely want to keep him as a prospect if you could.

153

darkside
Achiever
ID: 3590317
Wed, May 05, 2010, 12:33

Thanks, Ref...sorry I didn't read that section more closely. Glad everything is as it should be.

154

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Wed, May 05, 2010, 13:19

RE: 151 http://rotoguru1.com/cgi-bin/read.pl?board=basest&thread=7889&last=1270235278 Post 269

It is not a requirement to post on the boards. In fact, it is sometimes emailed. I try to acknowledge it on the boards like I did in 272 of that same thread. I have links at the top of this thread as they all can be prudent to what is going on with the league.

I'm a little miffed at your post PD. How in the world can a player be sent down if he was never called up in the first place? What Darky was confused about was he only remembered calling him up once--which was in fact the case. He simply misunderstood that the callups is what counted and not the options to send them down.

There is a carefully thought-out procedure stated in the rules that we go through for every prospect transaction.

155

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Wed, May 05, 2010, 13:23

I'm a little miffed at your post PD.

For no reason that I can discern. Don't be so sensitive. The manager didn't recall asking for the guy to be previously called up. There is nothing on the boards refuting that. I merely questioned what was going on, and you seem to have gotten defensive after taking it personally.

Even well-thought out processes have mistakes happen. Why? Because humans run them.

As commish you need to be less defensive and miffed, frankly. My post was never intended to be taken in the way you took it.

156

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Wed, May 05, 2010, 13:41

Post 269

It's possible that me being in surgery yesterday and being on massive pain meds has something to do with my massive irritability.

I find it irrational for you to say someone else doesn't ever rememeber them being called up when he just sent them down. As I pointed out, you are totally misunderstanding the situation and then say there was no post about it at all. I even show you that there are posts "refuting" that and you claim I'm being defensive and taking things personally. Well maybe I am. And maybe you should consider knowing what you're talking about before injecting yourself in an issue and trying to make it a situation.

OK, I should probably go back to bed now.

157

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Wed, May 05, 2010, 13:52

It's the meds. Go back to bed, Ref. You won't be so easily miffed when you wake up. And those flowers are from me - hope the pain isn't too bad.

I think it's reasonable for every move to be documented somewhere. We have a rules page that's 10 miles long - I think it's reasonable to keep it updated with the dates of any prospect callups and senddowns. It's extra work for the commishes (you're welcome), but it's right in line with "who is a prospect" and "what picks have been traded."

158

darkside
Achiever
ID: 3590317
Wed, May 05, 2010, 14:30

If there's anything at all that everyone can agree on, I think it's this: It's all Species' fault.

Way to go and start an argument, Species. Thanks, pal.

What we should really be focusing on is how 3 of the worst teams over the past 5 years now sit on top. Also, how is it possible that someone who drafts only OF'ers is in first place?

159

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Wed, May 05, 2010, 14:35

Heh.

And maybe you should consider knowing what you're talking about before injecting yourself in an issue and trying to make it a situation.

Nice. I'll be quiet now, since it is seemingly not my place in the league to question what is going on since the commish will take it as a personal insult...

Meds, indeed.

160

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Wed, May 05, 2010, 14:49

269 darkside
Achiever
ID: 3590317
Wed, Mar 31, 2010, 22:58 I'm also going to forgo my final two picks. I want to call up Wood and LaPorta, both for the first time.

272 Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Thu, Apr 01, 2010, 00:25 268: Maybin has been called up for teh 3rd time and he is no longer a prospect. Your draft is done.

269: Wood and LaPorta have been called up and your draft is done. Salaries removed.

Your remaining picks will be skipped automatically and forfeited unless they are traded before the pick is made in front of them.

PD, you simply misunderstood what is going on. Then you made statements that were false. I tried to show what the deal was but obviously we are not communicating. We post every time someone is called up already. Finding it is as simple as doing a search in one of our threads. If you think it's possible to send someone down when he's never even been called him up, then I don't know quite what to say, hence, being miffed.

161

Great One
ID: 243372812
Wed, May 05, 2010, 15:57

Quit yapping and someone send me a trade offer already.

162

slizz
ID: 43133920
Wed, May 05, 2010, 21:36

you got a 3rd baseman GO?

163

Peter N.
ID: 4847521
Wed, May 05, 2010, 22:07

I'm trying to set the record for highest ERA ever. Must say I'm doing a damn good job so far.

164

slizz
ID: 43133920
Wed, May 05, 2010, 23:05

...awaiting judy's comment on kyle kendrick latest start...lol

165

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Thu, May 06, 2010, 00:07

here it is Slizz -- "a very nice start by Kendrick" -- but I don't have him anymore... decided he didn't get
enough K's 'cause he is really a GB pitcher.

We've bageled the Cards twice -- will it be 3 in a row tomorrow with Halladay? I benched Holliday and
Molina in RIBC AAA...

I would like to see a few more runs though...esp from Howard -- HR of course...

Geez Peter -- and I thought my 5.09 was bad -- even Hanson messed up tonight -- his WHIP was ugly!

166

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Thu, May 06, 2010, 00:09

oops -- forgot Tuesday was 2-1 although Hamels should have had a bagel...

167

R9
ID: 74260
Thu, May 06, 2010, 01:02

Yeah, we're off to a good start on defending our 1-2 spots Pete. :/

Injuries have somewhat taken their toll on me, but so too did my mediocre draft. I have to be pretty pleased with a mediocre draft given that I had so few picks early on, but you always need a good-to-great draft to make an early run.

Still early though. I just need my SP's and OF's to stop dropping like flies. When they aren't tripping over themselves racing to get on the DL they're being released/demoted to AAA.

168

Great One
ID: 243372812
Thu, May 06, 2010, 09:07

Yeah, I had one pick in the first 4 rounds, and it was Brandon Webb. So thankfully my late guys like Freese and Ike are working out.

169

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Thu, May 06, 2010, 10:55

It's really hard to compete without early picks no matter how good your keepers are. Pete knew he'd be in trouble earlier on. Sure, the Ian Snell trade didn't work out so well and Javier Vazquez now presents him all kinds of problems, but I don't think he's complaining about Ellsbury, who won him a flag in exchange for three high picks. Good for you, Pete.

Oh, to rub a little salt in the wound, I believe one of my picks this year was a remnant of the Vazquez deal. And I think I took Matt Lindstrom with that pick. So far, that's working out pretty well.

170

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Thu, May 06, 2010, 14:01

R. I. P.

ROBIN ROBERTS, Phillies SP (Whiz Kid)

One of the all time great SP in baseball. Talk about durability! Once or twice a year he would
visit the Phillies booth and talk baseball and what he remembered from his days on the field was
amazing. Such a wonderful man. Now he and Whitey are both gone...

I had a catch with him when I was 8 years old and I still remember the thrill of it. I used to practice his
windup in the driveway with my brother catching.

171

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Fri, May 07, 2010, 21:31

For slizzz :)

Great game tonight from Jamie Moyer -- a 2 hit shutout complete
game including a 3 pitch 2nd inning. WOW!!

172

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Fri, May 07, 2010, 22:01

I saw that and was thinking of you, Judy. What a great game. The crowd was totally into it--especially the 40-something guys....

173

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Fri, May 07, 2010, 23:37

I guess the Cards were glad to get outta Philly -- Holliday and Molina went 4/5 tonight, although
Albert was bageled.

174

slizz
ID: 43133920
Sat, May 08, 2010, 01:00

you really need those 9 keepers to be good to compete in this league. Sure there are gems in the draft, but if your keepers are booty, its really tough!

Adam Jones for Carlos Gonzalez...smh.

175

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Sat, May 08, 2010, 10:25

I just saw the SC video of the Cubs Castro debut.

The kid looks like he is 13 years old!

176

slizz
ID: 43133920
Tue, May 11, 2010, 08:12

yeah...shades of almonte.

177

Great One
ID: 4841108
Tue, May 11, 2010, 14:06

Wouldn't it be the opposite? - Almonte was a man among boys... Castro looks like a kid among men.

178

Great One
ID: 39342317
Wed, May 12, 2010, 17:32

More things for my CBS suggestion box (I'm keeping a running tally in order to submit to CBS together).

1. When clicking on matchups, include team name along with opposing pitcher "Johnson" doesn't do me any good without an extra click to figure out the team, and then I'm going back and forth
2. When I click on "Yesterday" to check out my stats, can you keep the guys in the lineup as they were, not my current day lineup.
3. Can I see stats on the main trading screen? And having to hold the Ctrl down to pick the various stat-less players is so antiquated.
4. Can we get some drag and drop startling lineup editing? Its so 2005! :) to have to click the drop down next to the position, and the active/reserve
5. Fix the whole - everyone freezes at the same time problem
Feel free to add.

179

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Wed, May 12, 2010, 17:59

Cough ESPN cough.

180

beastiemiked
ID: 23127320
Thu, May 13, 2010, 00:47

I understand why we stick with CBS every year but it's ridiculous we can't make game time changes. It's like being in the stone age of fantasy sports. Also, they haven't made a single change to their site in ages yet haven't the raised the price every year.

181

darkside
Achiever
ID: 3590317
Thu, May 13, 2010, 08:31

What bmd said.

182

Great One
ID: 4841108
Thu, May 13, 2010, 08:59

BH - I think all we need ESPN to do is offer a way to block out the option to pick up certain players. I think if a commish could designate that player can't be picked up, they could just be greyed out or whatever and it would solve the prospect problem.

I don't think its a major deal about the Rules/Consititution page, we can just post that on RotoGuru for all to see and just update the parts that get edited often (prospects, trades). Even in Yahoo thats how we have it for the Poli league, everyones prospects and trades fit on the "Commish Note". And that league has 5 prospects each.

183

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Thu, May 13, 2010, 09:32

That would be great for a site to allow a commish to carve out prospects in a better way. We do sidestep it a bit on CBS with the salary attachments, but it is still a much more manual process than it should be.

I agree with bmd, though. The worse part is when the very early games have a rainout. Then you are stuck with guys on your day's roster when you have other guys you'd like to plug in who won't play for hours.

184

Great One
ID: 4841108
Thu, May 13, 2010, 11:03

Well you figure if Yahoo (or ESPN) can apply a "Can't Cut List" then you'd think it wouldn't be terribly difficult to apply a "Can't Add List"

185

beastiemiked
ID: 23127320
Thu, May 13, 2010, 16:00

Lol, after 31 2/3 innings without allowing an ER my team finally has a ERA under 4. Boom baby.

186

allhair allstars
ID: 3431321
Thu, May 13, 2010, 22:03

Uh... Hmmm... Can I get a commissioner to please call up Mat Latos and drop the sorry ass of Ryan Rowland-Smith. Day late - dollar short.

187

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Thu, May 13, 2010, 23:53

Albert swears that the Cards are the team to beat and that others had better look out. Personally, Albert, I'd
like to see a bit more power from you... and RBI and R... too many "00" fers lately...

188

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Fri, May 14, 2010, 11:37

Nice. A trip to Bristol (I met Barry Melrose!) kept me from setting my lineup this morning. Didn't start JSanchez or Norris last night - 16 innings, 2 runs. Darn.

189

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Fri, May 14, 2010, 22:30

186: AA, Just saw your post and have called Latos up for the first time.

RE: CBS You're preaching to the choir. BH introduced me to the head honcho with ESPN fantasy baseball ande we had a few conversations. I chronicled those back then and he was putting in several of the things we wanted--but there were two or three things that he wasn't doing and could not accommodate our prospects in any form. I was really happy with ESPN hoops. I didn't play this past season but assume it was still fine. There have been several times already this season where I've had to adjust people lineups because of CBS' lineup interface.

190

allhair allstars
ID: 3431321
Fri, May 14, 2010, 22:56

Thanks for the call up, Ref.

191

beastiemiked
ID: 23127320
Fri, May 14, 2010, 23:43

I know it's not perfect but can't we just have the prospects on one or two teams and have one of the commishes run it. Leave that teams lineup illegal the whole year. Then when people want to call up or demote players just have them propose a trade and have the commish insta approve it.

192

Great One
ID: 39342317
Fri, May 14, 2010, 23:46

I don't get why they can't just let the commish designate certain guys can't be added. It can't be that complicated to offer that. Like I said, Yahoo lets you use a Can't Cut List, why can't there be a commish controlled Can't Add List?!

193

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Sat, May 15, 2010, 00:05

I play A Hill (2B), he "00" fers.
I sit Hill, he multi hits.
Sheesh.

194

allhair allstars
ID: 3431321
Sat, May 15, 2010, 08:43

bmd,

Sixty prospects would tie up three teams... and wouldn't that mean that there are three additional teams in the standings? Sure they wouldn't accumulate any stats but they'd muck things up by adding three extra points to each category? Perhaps that's not a big deal and the pros may outweigh the cons... Since a commish would have to be around to approve the trade anyway, I'm not so sure the solution we currently have doesn't pretty much do the same thing without the "unsightly disadvantage" of having inactive teams added to the league (or bogus trade announcements being emailed to everyone by CBS).

195

darkside
Achiever
ID: 3590317
Sat, May 15, 2010, 09:44

Honestly, for as little impact as the prospects have, I'd rather not have them then be so restricted in how I manage my team ALL SEASON LONG. Don't get me wrong, I love the prospects and think it's a unique aspect of the league. But if they are the sole reason that we stick with CBS and it's absurd daily lineup lock, then, at least in my opinion, they're not worth it.

I mean really, if we look at how many prospects have panned out for the people who drafted them versus how many times people have been screwed by the early lineup lock, I feel like it's not even close. I know it's not in my case, anyway (though that could be a function of my talent evaluation).

My .02

196

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Sat, May 15, 2010, 20:23

RE: {180}

I agree -- it is really annoying to have all the players lock at once. For the late games or the guys that get
random starts (for me -- Infante, Gomes, Bady, Shierholz, Keppinger -- certainly not an all star list...), it
sure would be nice to know if they are going to play -- IN TIME to use them!

197

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Sun, May 16, 2010, 17:05

I often wonder just what Cliff Lee is thinking now -- pitching well for a crappy club. I know he got
traded before he could make an offer to the Phillies to take less money to stay, but I will be very
curious to see where he ends up -- he can certainly help a lot of clubs. I do think the Phillies blew
it by not keeping him -- although they also have to consider Werth's value to them... Their payroll
will definitely go up again...but at this point with all the sell outs, they can afford it...

198

slizz
ID: 43133920
Sun, May 16, 2010, 20:13

i get the impression everyone at ESPN loves Barry...is that the case BH?

199

beastiemiked
ID: 23127320
Mon, May 17, 2010, 18:09

Having 3 teams that don't accumulate stats would only add some points to the roto standings but they wouldn't "change" anything. If you are down by 100 to bh now you would be down 100 in the new system. Plus, it would be pretty easy to take those teams out at the end of the season for record purposes.

Does espn have a score correction feature? If so, we could just add the prospects to their respective teams and if somebody "accidently" starts one of their prospects then a commish can go and make the correction.

200

R9
ID: 64561717
Mon, May 17, 2010, 18:56

I updated my on the block, but thought I'd post here too; I'm looking to sell any veteran player of value for picks, prospects and young rostered players. Those promising youngsters that you can't afford to wait on, I want em! :)
I'm also debating moving Utley, so I guess I'll add him and see what I can get there too.

I've received a few emails already, and I'll likely wait a little while to see how many more I get. So get your offers in!

201

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Mon, May 17, 2010, 22:53

for slizz :)

Nice game by Kendrick tonight 12 GB, 5 H, 2ER.

GS by Howard helped as well 12-2 W for the Fightin's.

202

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Wed, May 19, 2010, 09:42

I am looking to get a second baseman while Sizemore is out. I have outfielders, pitchers, prospects and picks to trade. Don't ask for Braun, Andrus, or Stanton, but everyone else is pretty much on the table.

203

judy
ID: 5321213
Wed, May 19, 2010, 17:09

Official notice to REF: Check out the time stamp -- I think I am first with this...)

I want to pick up Trevor Crowe and drop Xavier Nady

There is no salary listed for Crowe -- what does that mean? Can I have him?

If so, can a commish fix it for me? Thanks.

204

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Wed, May 19, 2010, 21:00

thank you commish -- whichever one of you made the move for me!

205

Species
Dude
ID: 07724916
Fri, May 21, 2010, 01:12

judy - I went ahead and did it....but, was there a reason you couldn't do it on the website yourself? In the future, if you can specify why it would make a lot more sense. i.e. -- the website is blocked at work, whatever.

Otherwise, I would see no reason to circumvent normal 'procedure', that being "first come, first serve" on the website.

206

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Fri, May 21, 2010, 07:50

Since there was no salary listed I wasn't sure what "category" he was in and whether I was
allowed to pick him up, esp since I goofed earlier and picked up a prospect by mistake.

Just trying to be legal!!

207

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Fri, May 21, 2010, 09:26

No salary = free to pick up anytime.

208

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Fri, May 21, 2010, 14:55

Also, all prospects are listed in the rules.

209

R9
ID: 94472115
Fri, May 21, 2010, 16:47

I've got alot of emails so far but have been too busy to really look over everything. Will probably have some time to haggle this weekend.

210

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Fri, May 21, 2010, 18:26

so that's where the prospect list is -- I was looking for it!

211

Peter N.
ID: 4847521
Fri, May 21, 2010, 23:07

Sad to say, but first to worst is looking like a real possibly for me. Time for a change. Everyone except Kinsler is available. If you see a possible trade, send me an offer. Looking towards 2011 and beyond. Come on, we can't let blue hen walk his way to a title. ;-)

212

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Sat, May 22, 2010, 19:43

re: 210 It is in our league rules. Put your mouse over the league home and drop down to rules.

213

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Sat, May 22, 2010, 19:44

RE: 211 Makign draft pick trades to try and win that year has big time effects!

I need steals if anyone has them.

214

Peter N.
ID: 4847521
Sat, May 22, 2010, 23:24

The picks were a factor but trading Morneau for Sizemore didn't help...either did keeping Borbon over Hawpe, Swish or Sori...oh and my pitching staff has collectively decided to either be hurt or just suck in general. LOL

215

Great One
ID: 39342317
Sun, May 23, 2010, 09:48

Damn almost had my second no-hitter of the year, but this time Dice was on the bench. I was at the game too. Love that Philly stadium.

216

blue hen
ID: 8115717
Sun, May 23, 2010, 12:43

Luckily, my last two keepers were Asdrubal and Adam Jones. Both have been bad and hurt, and I got to keep Martin and Sanchez, who have both been good AND picked up some draft picks (CGonz and Lindstrom with those two, I think).

217

Species
Dude
ID: 07724916
Sun, May 23, 2010, 13:16

You've had the magic touch this year, bh. Let's see if you can bring it home.

218

beastiemiked
ID: 23127320
Sun, May 23, 2010, 20:27

Really surprised to see Braddock still there after he got called up and pitched 2 scoreless innings. I've had my eye on him for 2-3 weeks and almost picked him up a few times. I just hope the fact that he's a lefty doesn't hurt his chances at becoming the Brewers closer.

219

blue hen
ID: 8115717
Mon, May 24, 2010, 00:22

Braddock was on my radar as well, and I noticed you picked up both guys in the mix. Good work.

220

Guru
ID: 330592710
Tue, May 25, 2010, 13:58

Can someone provide the link that shows what our current waiver priority is? I looked around, but came up empty.

221

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Tue, May 25, 2010, 14:38

Go to add/drop and it's listed in a box on the right.

The current waiver order:
1. Mo Vaughn's Breakfast Buffet
2. GoatLockers Goons
3. Blue Hen
4. GO's Gaslight Anthem
5. mjd
6. allhair allstars
7. Jaydog
8. Darkside of ACME
9. Slizz's Salami Farts
10. Judy's Ghostie
11. bmd
12. youngroman's Luschen
13. Tosh
14. Slackjawed Yokel
15. Ref
16. Utley's Elderly Crew
17. Pete's Pansies
18. Guru
19. Endangered Species
20. Toral Blues

223

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Wed, May 26, 2010, 13:35

D**M this early lock -- I did not realize there was a WEDS day game and lost Blanton and
Hanson today. I didn't think I needed to plan ahead as I check in in the afternoon
except on M, TH, and weekends.

I hate this early lock!

224

Tosh
Leader
ID: 057721710
Sat, May 29, 2010, 21:52

I am going to activate Buster Posey (C, SF) from my prospect list. Activation #1.

I am waiving Alfredo Aceves (RP, NYY)

225

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Sun, May 30, 2010, 08:48

Nice game Roy!

(Thanks for the error Maybin...)

226

Great One
ID: 39342317
Sun, May 30, 2010, 13:13

Did someone else have Neil Walker a few years back?

227

Species
Dude
ID: 07724916
Mon, May 31, 2010, 14:15

Yeap. I'm sure he touched a roster or two a couple of years ago.

228

blue hen
ID: 8115717
Mon, May 31, 2010, 18:56

Ugh, pitching. The hitting is fine, but Shields gave up 7 ER last night. Fortunately, Cahill was decent today and Correia gets the Mets tonight. I've been quite lucky with the pitchers so far; it can't keep up forever, but I hope it keeps up long enough.

Wow, it's May 31, and I am still in front. Sweet.

229

Great One
ID: 594322114
Tue, Jun 01, 2010, 10:20

Does anyone else enjoy reading the comments on player pages of CBS where the people point out all the errors on CBS? Like CBS has 165 games played projected for a player I was looking at, and I just added Hairston and they had him listed as a Giant for some reason. I usually come across one of these per day.

230

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Tue, Jun 01, 2010, 12:23

Cough.

231

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Tue, Jun 01, 2010, 12:23

Shall I pull out?

232

Great One
ID: 594322114
Tue, Jun 01, 2010, 14:15

Thats what he said.

233

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Wed, Jun 02, 2010, 10:22

I'm looking to trade one of my prospects - Mike Stanton, Lars Anderson, or Kyle Drabek. Stanton, obviously, is the best prospect in baseball and will need to get an established superstar in return (not an outfielder).

Anderson or Drabek might prove to be more affordable - Anderson was the star prospect who struggled in 2009 before getting "back" this year, and Drabek was a centerpiece of the Roy Halladay deal. For either Drabek or Anderson, I am looking for players who could help this year or 2011 draft picks.

234

blue hen
ID: 8115717
Fri, Jun 04, 2010, 23:47

Thanks for the offers. Some decent ones, so clearly we're on to something. In all likelihood, Stanton, Ethier, and Carlos Gonzalez are the players who could move, so let's keep those offers coming.

235

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Sat, Jun 05, 2010, 23:56

Well now this is a first -- every batter on my team -- starters and subs had at least one hit tonight...

So all my batters were HITTERS today!! Yea!!

236

Peter N.
ID: 5553679
Mon, Jun 07, 2010, 10:37

I wonder what the record is for number of players on the DL?? I have to be close with 7!

237

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Mon, Jun 07, 2010, 11:08

True. No one else is stupid enough to hold on to injured guys.

238

Great One
ID: 2751238
Mon, Jun 07, 2010, 11:19

Yeah Pete, its ridiculous to be holding Ellsbury and Beckett so go ahead and drop them so I can use my waiver priority lol... I guess the Pete's Pansies is an applicable name this year.

239

Great One
ID: 2751238
Mon, Jun 07, 2010, 13:41

I'd like to renounce my rights to Smoak as a prospect to free up a pick in the upcoming Prospect Draft.

240

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Mon, Jun 07, 2010, 14:02

Lars Anderson and Kyle Drabek can be had for draft pick upgrades...

241

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Mon, Jun 07, 2010, 16:18

Smoak is no longer a prospect.

I've dropped most of my guys who hit the DL. Others have finally come back.

242

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Mon, Jun 07, 2010, 23:34

I've called up Strasburg for the first time.

243

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Tue, Jun 08, 2010, 09:45

Dear MJD,

Thank you for making this day possible.

Love,
G20

244

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Tue, Jun 08, 2010, 11:55

Re #235

We are back down to Earth (or lower) just one hit on Monday...

245

beastiemiked
ID: 19558820
Tue, Jun 08, 2010, 21:58

Dear bh,
Just wait for me to hit the majors in 3 years. Strasburg is the next Prior. I'm going to steal bases and hit 10 hr's a year. Eat your heart out Mr. Lipman.

Love,
Tim Beckham

246

beastiemiked
ID: 23127320
Tue, Jun 08, 2010, 22:01

PSA:I'll pay hefty for the #1 pick in the prospect draft this year. Who do I pay to rig the lottery balls?

247

Toral Away
ID: 2854398
Wed, Jun 09, 2010, 09:43

That was quick. I clicked to pick up Tabata while he was still a Free Agent. By the time I got to the Add/Drop page he was gone.

248

Great One
ID: 2751238
Wed, Jun 09, 2010, 10:14

Good thing I added him before running out to my car! lol...

249

Species
Dude
ID: 07724916
Thu, Jun 10, 2010, 00:58

I am interested in an OF who is strong in OBP, HR and RBI. I have a young future All-Star SS to trade in Cubs 20-year old phenom Starlin Castro. from ESPN's Keith Law:

Rank Player
12 Starlin Castro
Age: 19 (DOB: March 24, 1990)
Bats: Right Throws: Right
Position: Shortstop Organization: Chicago Cubs
Top '09 Level: AA (Tennessee)
2009 ranking: UR
Starlin Castro
2009 MINORS STATS

* GM127
* AB469
* HR3
* RBI49
* SB28

* SO53
* BB29
* OBP.342
* SLG.392
* AVG.299

Castro is one of the most exciting position player prospects in the minors as a quick-twitch player with an electric bat and a hose for an arm at shortstop. As a hitter, Castro has lightning in his wrists and the ball absolutely flies off his bat. He has excellent hand-eye coordination and adjusts well when pitchers try to come in on him, keeping his hands inside the ball and squaring up pitches many hitters would foul off. His swing can get long when pitchers work him away, but he still makes a lot more contact than most hitters do, courtesy of his bat speed and hand-eye. He recognizes breaking balls well for his age and projects to hit for power even to the opposite field. As a shortstop, he's quick on his feet with good range in both ways, especially to the hole, but it is his arm that really stands out, grading at 65 or 70 on the 20-80 scale. The Cubs have pushed him up the ladder aggressively because he can make contact and needed reps against better pitching, but it has obscured his power potential because he's been so young for his leagues. He's going to be an impact bat in the middle of the diamond and could arrive as early as late 2010.

CONCEIVABLY I can also trade young Rays OF BJ Upton as well (if the OF upgrade was big enough). I won't post 2 long paragraphs about how awesome he is, blah blah blah. Even as he has been the past 2 seasons, he's still a 15-20 HR, 45+ SB, 100+ runs OF, only 25 years old - yada yada yada.

Inquire within.

250

beastiemiked
ID: 23127320
Fri, Jun 11, 2010, 14:39

Did we ever make the rule that you can't pick up players drafted from the current years draft until after the prospect draft? I know we discussed it last year or the year before.

251

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Fri, Jun 11, 2010, 14:55

G20 Rules page in CBS

Supplemental Draft, FA Pickups and Waivers

Players must be available in the CBS player pool to be drafted or added during the season via FA or WW. No amateur player may be drafted or picked up via FA or WW if the player in question still has amateur status or is a prospect (normally has a salary of 1). Also, if a player is drafted in the June MLB draft, he may not be picked up until after our Prospect Draft that year. No draft-eligible prospect will be allowed to be picked-up after the Sunday freeze before the All-Star break until after the prospect draft concludes.

252

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Fri, Jun 11, 2010, 15:06

I've had some really nice offers and some that don't work out for my vision. Since I might end up being a seller soon, I'm not willing to overpay for a particular stat like I normally would be. I am so far behind in steals that even if I got a stud thief, it woulnd't probably be enough--esp with Roberts out indefinitely. I'm not ready to sell yet because I was in 10th place at the ASB in our first season and I was able to win, but a much different situation now. I'm willing to make a deal and try and see where that takes me and then if it doesn't work, turn around and become a seller--but only if it's pretty soon. Several of the inquiries have been for Hanley or Stras and I'm not willing to move them at this point. I gave away ARod a few seasons ago trying to go on a run and it has haunted me ever since. Haven't had a 3b worth anything since.

Injuries and poor play are part of the game and when that is combined with bad managing, then it might be time to blow the team up--but trying to be optimistic...for now.

253

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Fri, Jun 11, 2010, 17:06

Read: I don't really have a shot of winning and I hate being a seller, but I'll still try to get your good players for my bad ones.

254

Species
Dude
ID: 07724916
Fri, Jun 11, 2010, 21:15

I'm saying this as both a Commissioner and as a league owner.....and I'm not picking on blue hen only:

I would really like all of us to stop talking shit about other people's posts about trades. It's degrading and belittling to the other person/team. Yeah there are many MANY posts -- plenty of mine included -- that are humongous sell-jobs full of hyperbole that most guys in this league can smell a mile away. But the more teams talk crap about a poster's intentions, the more another team might shy away, and that's just wrong. Period.

Talk all you want about a completed trade....that's fun and can be constructive.....but cut the chatter out when teams post their interests in trading.

Just this man's opinion of course.

256

Toral
ID: 5522910
Sat, Jun 12, 2010, 08:40

Note -- for about the next 10 days I'll be away and using other folks' computers -- may not respond fora coupla days to inquiries.

Will Ohman is available!

257

Great One
ID: 2751238
Mon, Jun 14, 2010, 11:28

I'd like to call up Carlos Santana tonight (dropping George Kottaras) -- but please wait til after 7:05 PM this evening so I get Kottaras' game locked in first.

258

Great One
ID: 47515621
Mon, Jun 14, 2010, 19:56

Would you rather have Ludwick or Manny right now? :)

259

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Mon, Jun 14, 2010, 23:48

Anybody know if the new, revised Kafenatid will be ready in time for our prospect draft to test it
out??

Or will we be drafting via a thread?

260

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Tue, Jun 15, 2010, 10:20

We draft via thread, since many of those prospects aren't in the player database that KKB uses.

261

Great One
ID: 2751238
Tue, Jun 15, 2010, 10:38

Its very quick too, only a few short rounds where not everyone even has a pick.

262

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Tue, Jun 15, 2010, 10:52

Re 258, which was directed at me.

Yes, I was wrong. Please write down the date.

263

Great One
ID: 2751238
Tue, Jun 15, 2010, 11:33

Is that just for this league or should we add it to the "Instant Classic" Mark Prior, Daniel Cabrera predictions from 2 years ago Dirty Dozen?

264

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Tue, Jun 15, 2010, 12:48

I already used my "you're in eighth place in G20" comeback once. If you're allowed to re-use Cabrera and Prior, am I allowed to use that one again?

I guess I was right about Ethier, Kemp, Andrus, Price, Sanchez, Dotel, Rauch, and even Jose Bautista this year. Funny how that hasn't come up.

265

Great One
ID: 2751238
Tue, Jun 15, 2010, 13:08

Well those stick because of how emphatic you were predicting their greatness and how "Daniel Cabrera is a sure thing" etc etc... I'm still looking for the "Jose Bautista is gonna be a stud this season" posts.

You've had a nice start for sure. Lets see if you can keep it up.

266

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Tue, Jun 15, 2010, 15:38

Post 178

267

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Tue, Jun 15, 2010, 17:04

We all had some good picks and some bad picks in retrospect.

268

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Tue, Jun 15, 2010, 22:45

Someone sent me an email today about Konerko, which I accidentally erased before reading. Would whoever sent it please re-send?

269

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Wed, Jun 16, 2010, 00:00

My "bad players" are playing pretty well right now. They didn't like all that trade talk apparently.

270

Great One
ID: 2751238
Wed, Jun 16, 2010, 10:47

Ref - you just needed to light a fire under them :)

I have a high draft pick for sale for a quality SP. Billingsley and Dice on the DL, I need some innings...

271

Species
ID: 185401813
Fri, Jun 18, 2010, 14:40

SWEET! The first objection to one of my trades in a while!!

272

Great One
ID: 455141711
Fri, Jun 18, 2010, 15:46

I normally bury CBS, but I will give them credit - their revamped Probable Pitchers section is well designed.

273

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Fri, Jun 18, 2010, 16:31

I disagree - too much info on that page. I want to see a quick version of who is pitching today (or even this week, in a chart)...

274

Great One
ID: 47515621
Fri, Jun 18, 2010, 17:44

But I like to see the opposing pitcher, last 3 games, history vs. opponent etc. Maybe some of the other stuff can go.

275

R9
ID: 2854239
Fri, Jun 18, 2010, 20:32

271, it was me.

276

Judy
ID: 54203110
Fri, Jun 18, 2010, 22:02

Prospect question:

If I draft a guy and he decides to go to or stay in college
instead, do i still get to keep him? Or, does he need to sign
for me to keep him?

277

Species
Dude
ID: 07724916
Fri, Jun 18, 2010, 23:53

Judy - you retain their rights even if they don't sign.

278

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Sat, Jun 19, 2010, 08:32

Hope I got the trades right in the rules. Someone please double check.

279

darkside
Achiever
ID: 3590317
Sat, Jun 19, 2010, 13:04

Hey, just noticed that LaPorta still has a (2) next to his name in the prospect area of the rules page...this goes back to the confusion earlier when I sent him down (see post 160). He's only been called up once, so that should be a (1).

Thanks!

280

blue hen
ID: 8115717
Sat, Jun 19, 2010, 13:19

Still looking to move an outfielder. Anyone but Braun or Choo is really on the table - Kemp, Ethier, CGonz, Stanton...

281

R9
ID: 2854239
Sat, Jun 19, 2010, 14:15

I'll renounce my rights to prospect Jess Todd.

282

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Sat, Jun 19, 2010, 16:27

I do not want my prospect either: I forget his name...

283

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Sat, Jun 19, 2010, 22:49

279: LaPorta has only been called up once. I have changed that back. Apparently one of the other commishs changed that after he was sent down. We only add to the callup number when we call them up. Sending someone down doesn't change that number--we simply check to see if that player has hit the threshold. I've tried to let others do more so we all stay in practice. ;) That's why I post the number of callups each player has in case there is ever an issue on it. We're human, so please check things over just in case!

281: Todd has been removed as a prospect from R9.

282: 12.14 Aaron Poreda,P,SD has been removed as a prospect from Judy.

284

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Sat, Jun 19, 2010, 23:00

This is more of a strategic question, but what is the advantage of renouncing rights on a prospect before you have to announce prospect keepers?

285

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Sat, Jun 19, 2010, 23:28

284: EXCELLENT question. If you have no doubt that you are not keeping them, I guess it doesn't matter.

286

judy
ID: 597401015
Sun, Jun 20, 2010, 13:31

Maybe it is to free them up so some fool can grab them...teehee

(I knew I didn't want my guy and saw others were "renouncing. so I joined
the party!)

Maybe someone else is dying to have him now... go for it!

287

judy
ID: 597401015
Sun, Jun 20, 2010, 13:38

I have decided that I am NOT impressed with the Great Albert. Who wants him?

Obviously expecting a lot in return -- at the very least one current player
(strong starter/keeper level) and a high draft pick exchange and possibly a ML ready prospect
to begin the bidding...

288

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Mon, Jun 21, 2010, 10:27

I told Twarpy you're thinking about trading Pujols. He said he hopes you can get some good value for him.

289

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Mon, Jun 21, 2010, 12:42

Twarpy has been MIA for over a month. Several are worried about him and have been trying to reach him.

253: You're obviously speaking for your own team here.

I knew my "bad" players were better than what they were showing and right after I posted they went nuts. Scoring over 20 points in the standings in about 4 or 5 days and jumping form 8th and 41.5 points down to 2nd and 4.5 points down. If Roberts hadn't been hurt all season, I think I'd be in great shape.

Didn't really need to make those trades, but Pete had been peddling them to the entire league apparently without any results. Those players really won't help me much (except depth--which could still be big with injuries) but hoping I can get what I need by flipping other players since there doesn't seem to be much of a market for the guys I got. I'm a little surprised others wouldn't give up what Pete was asking. Zambrano threw a gem on his way off my team. I told Pete he'd get hot again now that I traded him.

258: Don't count out Manny.

259: It's a really quick draft. Most have just one pick. May have 35-40 picks or so in total. IIRC, it is 3 hours per pick and 4 hour c clock. Can't use kaf anyhow because of what PD stated in 260.

Trades: I'm still looking for steals. I can send out saves or potentially other stats or positions if it makes sense.

290

Great One
ID: 455141711
Mon, Jun 21, 2010, 12:50

Ref - why even waste your time?! Blue Hen has been working on his G20 victory speech since May. He's got this thing all locked up! I mean, last I looked before my vacation he was up by like 40 points on 2nd place. Thats why I haven't bothered checking the standings :)

With Cruz coming back I could probably move one of my OF -- all of which get steals. Cruz, Granderson, Tabata and Crisp. Starting pitching is what I'm on the hunt for with Billingsley and DiceK on the DL.

291

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Mon, Jun 21, 2010, 13:55

Heh, my team is in a free fall. It's pretty amazing how they're almost exactly the opposite of what they were in mid-May. All at the same time. Hopefully at least one or two of them bounce back soon.

Those are some good moves by Ref. By Pete too, really getting value out of his older guys.

I'm still working on my G20 victory speech, only because I'm a cocky SOB. But now I have to actually work on my team, too.

292

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Mon, Jun 21, 2010, 19:13

Some good ideas coming in for Al.

I plan to decide next Mon/Tues so please send any more offers before Thursday
midnight (I am away for the weekend).

Thanks.

293

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Tue, Jun 22, 2010, 10:00

Congrats Ref. Today is my first day with company in first place since early April. You've earned it.

294

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Tue, Jun 22, 2010, 12:04

It's a marathon.

295

Great One
ID: 455141711
Tue, Jun 22, 2010, 12:47

Yeah, like I probably won't pass you for another month or so. You have plenty to look forward to!

296

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Tue, Jun 22, 2010, 13:20

Might have several pass him by then. ;)

297

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Tue, Jun 22, 2010, 13:29

Now that ref is on top, this is the time we start hearing him really bad mouth his team and how horrible it is...

:)

298

mjd
Leader
ID: 501381415
Tue, Jun 22, 2010, 14:46

Lou Holtz, Jr ;.)

299

mjd
Leader
ID: 501381415
Tue, Jun 22, 2010, 14:47

BTW, nice work, Ref.

300

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Tue, Jun 22, 2010, 14:59

Ah but do remember that I was in first after the first day -- I took a screen shot to prove it!!

SO I too have a "share"...

301

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Tue, Jun 22, 2010, 15:20

In NASCAR, even one lap in first gets you "I was in first" points.

302

Great One
ID: 455141711
Tue, Jun 22, 2010, 15:29

Thats true, there is also a most laps led bonus... BH has a leg up on that one.

303

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Tue, Jun 22, 2010, 15:41

On 4/5 I was in first place--I printed out the Game Tracker page, in fact.

304

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Tue, Jun 22, 2010, 16:18

297: Just because I am not cocky, doesn't mean I bad-mouth my own team when I'm in first place. I honeslty believed my team might never recover 10 days ago. I build my teams a certain way--quite differently than most--but it also really opens myself up for disappointment when certain postiions/cats underperform. It's also hard for me to talk too much smack when I was up 10 points on the pentultimate day in Season 1 only to be outscored by 11 that day and having to fight back for a point on the final day. THis league is too deep and loaded with good managers to every take much for granted. If I can get Roberts back at full speed in the next month or so, I will be really happy. I just don't think that's gonna happen.

Today is the first day with my traded playersand I'm tied for first. Hinske is facing a lefty so will put in Uribe. Might start Ordonez at DH though Lee's been sizzling.

305

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Tue, Jun 22, 2010, 16:42

(300) PD --

I checked the date -- I was in first on 4-6. You were first on the first day. Our very short high point
for the season!!

Funny that we both made print outs of it!

306

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Tue, Jun 22, 2010, 17:04

I printed out 4/15, 5/1, 5/20, 6/1, and 6/18.

307

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Tue, Jun 22, 2010, 17:09

I'm purchasing a nice frame for it, Judy...

:)

308

beastiemiked
ID: 23127320
Tue, Jun 22, 2010, 20:44

So what were the picks swapped in Pete/Ref deals?

309

Peter N.
ID: 535532221
Tue, Jun 22, 2010, 22:56

The two trades were

Magglio Ordonez, Juan Uribe, my 14th for Carlos Gomez, Edwin Encarnacion, ref's 4th

and

Francisco Rodriguez, Javier Vazquez, my 10th for Raul Ibanez, Carlos Zambrano, ref's 2nd

I just looked and saw these haven't been updated in the rules yet. Update by a commish would be appreciated. :-)

I'm still looking to make another trade or two as well. Ibanez, Pavano, Zambrano are available for picks. Just about anyone, minus Kinsler, is avalable so fire away if you have any interest.

310

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Tue, Jun 22, 2010, 23:17

How about that Jamie Moyer?

Another brilliant game -- 2 hitter, 2 - 1 win over CLE.

Eliminate that horrendous start v Boston (9 ER in 1 INN) and here are his season stats:

13 GS, 8 -5, ERA 3.57, 1.13 WHIP (Includes Boston game but not tonight), 35 RA, 44K, 2 CG (He has pitched
into the 6th INN of all but 2 starts -- Boston, NYM)

In his 5 losses (not counting Boston), he's given up 5, 4, 2, 4, 1 runs.

By all rights he should be at least 10 - 4 and with the Phillies "normal" offense, he could be 12 -2.

Not bad for an old guy -- also now shares the record for giving up the most HR -- with Robbie. He has 266
career wins -- #35 on the list.

On the Rotoworld draft site he was the last SP listed -- #170. I guess the number 50 on his back means he
intends to pitch that long -- he's 47 now...

311

Great One
ID: 2751238
Wed, Jun 23, 2010, 12:41

Are the Phillies over .500 yet? That team is a heck of a disappointment.

312

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Wed, Jun 23, 2010, 16:11

Phils are currently 36 -32. They've been over all .500 season, but slipping closer to .500 all
the time...

They are traditionally a second half team -- when crunch time comes, they can respond...We
do need JRoll to stay healthy -- he is the spark...

313

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Wed, Jun 23, 2010, 18:35

Good job today Ref. Strasburg got you a bunch of K's and no walks. You were very smart to have picked him up.

314

Great One
ID: 505322312
Thu, Jun 24, 2010, 10:01

I am amazed by the lack of walks by Strasburg with that kind of electric stuff. Is it because people are just flailing at his pitches or because he really has pinpoint accuracy?

315

beastiemiked
ID: 23127320
Thu, Jun 24, 2010, 16:00

Judy, my offer stands for now. I'm taking it off the table since I don't like leaving trades open for more than 1-2 days. If you want it, either send me a trade offer or shoot me an email.

316

Great One
ID: 505322312
Thu, Jun 24, 2010, 16:32

Rolling the "Dice-K" tonight @Colorado... taking a hell of a chance I think. But last matchup I was gonna sit him was @PHI and that backfired.

317

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Thu, Jun 24, 2010, 22:22

CBS site down for anyone else?

318

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Thu, Jun 24, 2010, 22:54

OK right now for me. Of course, I'm not liking the -1 for today...

319

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Thu, Jun 24, 2010, 22:57

Could you guys clarify what the final trade is?

320

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Thu, Jun 24, 2010, 22:58

So let me get this trade straight for administration purposes:

Darkside gets: Pujols and Judy's 14th rounder

Judy gets: Loney, Cecil, Leake, Quintin, prospect Alonso and his 1st?

321

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Thu, Jun 24, 2010, 23:01

YUP

322

darkside
Achiever
ID: 3590317
Thu, Jun 24, 2010, 23:15

That's correct.

Never thought I'd pull off a trade for one of the big guns.

Leake and Cecil could both turn out to be real good, but they were both WW pickups and I didn't think I'd be able to keep them with Haren, J. Johnson, and Broxton (and figured Kennedy or Nolasco could be keepers). I've got two keeper OFers in Rios and Rasmus (he may be a stretch, but I think he could end up a stud) and can live w/o Quentin and replace Loney with Pujols.

So, I may have killed my chances this year, but like how I'm set up next year (though it hurt to give up my first rounder....).

323

blue hen
ID: 8115717
Thu, Jun 24, 2010, 23:22

Why would you have killed your chances for this year? You really didn't give up that much. Would you have given up Haren or Johnson if Judy had asked?

324

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Thu, Jun 24, 2010, 23:31

And I like Leake and Cecil for the future (add them to Hanson and Santana) and a bit for this
season. Loney should be really strong when Al begins to fade (2014 or so), but he is no slouch
right now. (It "hurts" that he is a Dodger, but sometimes ya just have to bite the bullet.) I have
faith that Quentin will "pick it up" for this season and in fact he has done so this week.

I also like the 2 #1's for 2011. Possibly 3 of the guys I got could be keepers for me next season.
I can use the 2 #1's to grab some good guys...

It also seems I have "gone young" as they say. And that is fine.

Time will tell....

325

darkside
Achiever
ID: 3590317
Thu, Jun 24, 2010, 23:32

Not as a one for one swap out I wouldn't have and Johnson would have completely changed the landscape of the trade--I'm a big fan of his.

One reason I liked my offer from my perspective was I wasn't giving up any integral piece of my current team. But, I'm weak in a lot of areas and I was hoping pitching would help balance that...gonna be tougher now.

I regret my Lester for Haren trade, but I figure I deserve that since I got Broxton from GO!

326

slizz
ID: 43133920
Fri, Jun 25, 2010, 00:33

not that it means much, but if anyone is interested and needs a SS with some pop, I'll trade you Alex Gonzalez...cheap.

My asking price is a 9th round pick.

327

mjd
Leader
ID: 501381415
Fri, Jun 25, 2010, 00:44

My rebuilding process continues......... I'm still a seller.

328

Species
Dude
ID: 07724916
Fri, Jun 25, 2010, 01:04

Is Jaydog's posted email address correct? I could use a response from him.

329

darkside
Achiever
ID: 3590317
Fri, Jun 25, 2010, 09:46

I'd be curious to know what the objections to the trade are if those opposed have any interest in sharing their reasoning.

330

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Fri, Jun 25, 2010, 10:21

No objections from a trade standpoint, I just think Judy didn't get as much value as she could have. And it's more relevant than usual since this is the best player in baseball.

331

darkside
Achiever
ID: 3590317
Fri, Jun 25, 2010, 10:30

Sure. Valuations of players differ. I understand that. I was just curious who thought the trade was so lopsided that it deserved an objection on the CBS site.

332

darkside
Achiever
ID: 3590317
Fri, Jun 25, 2010, 10:30

Not 'who' but why, actually.

333

Great One
ID: 505322312
Fri, Jun 25, 2010, 10:33

Darkside... pretend we traded Lester for Broxton and we are all good lol... but hey, thats why we deal. Take a shot at getting better.

I gotta say, I thought I made a perfect offer to Judy which included younger 1B with more upside (you can do your own math on who), a credible starting OF comprable to Quentin, a 1st rounder and most importantly I thought getting Phillies phenom Dominic Brown would push it over the top. But she said she wanted more veteran proven players so I guess thats why she went Loney/Quentin and Leake -- Alonso is definitely no slouch, a future slugger, good hitters park etc - just figured Dominic would interest her more. I was surprised. And I'm pretty sure most would value my two young 1B's higher than Loney.

In retrospect, I am somewhat glad I didn't trade away all that youth and I'm sticking with the plan. Because its a premium in this league. But a few good years of Albert would have been fun too.

334

Great One
ID: 505322312
Fri, Jun 25, 2010, 10:34

And I certainly did not object... no reason - there are plenty of chips in there to make it solid deal where both teams see they are improving.

335

Peter N.
ID: 535532221
Fri, Jun 25, 2010, 10:40

I didn't object the trade, but I do think its strange to trade Pujols for that. Its all good though. I'm not going to insult the parties involved by objecting to it. Both are competent and capable managers. I'm reminded of when Judy got flamed in the G24 football league for a trade she did with me. That one ended up turning out nicely for her.

336

Great One
ID: 505322312
Fri, Jun 25, 2010, 10:56

Yeah - she rode those guys to the championship game!

337

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Fri, Jun 25, 2010, 11:13

GO -- the two young pitchers really sweetened the deal. We shall see how Loney pans out compared to
your two young 1B -- who are also going to be good! Dom was a lure, but even though I am known as
such, I do try not to be a Phillies "homer" (except in football...).

I suspect Dom will be up next season either to replace the older Raul or the traded Werth. They won't
bring him up unless it is for full time. Although I would like to see the Phillies keep Werth I think it will
be hard -- esp the way guys go for the $$$$ these days.

338

darkside
Achiever
ID: 3590317
Fri, Jun 25, 2010, 11:14

Great One - I have been telling myself that for a few weeks now!

Thanks for the comments from you and Peter.

It's funny how perspective changes things for people. I'm sure many would be surprised that I worried I was giving up too much. 2 guys about to hit their prime (Loney and Quentin are 26 and 27, respectively) I've kept for the last 2 years, a likely #2 in Leake (22), Cecil (23), who's looked excellent so far, a solid prospect (23) and a number 1 pick. That's a lot from the way I'm seeing things. But, it is Albert Pujols who is the best player in the game, but also 3 years on the wrong side of 27.

I guess that's why I was surprised people would object. I can see not liking it and bitching about it, but to suggest it should be vetoed is a bit ridiculous in my opinion.

339

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Fri, Jun 25, 2010, 11:31

Assuming it goes through, when does it take effect -- as I will need to drop a few guys
to be "legal"?

340

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Fri, Jun 25, 2010, 11:32

oh, and I wouldn't be able to do anything until tonight anyway...so maybe it'll happen
tonight for the Sat games??

341

darkside
Achiever
ID: 3590317
Fri, Jun 25, 2010, 11:41

I think it will be processed late tonight and the new players will be on our roster tomorrow, but I could be wrong about that (I'm basing it on the fact that the voting period deadline is 6/25).

342

Toral
ID: 4155487
Fri, Jun 25, 2010, 11:56

The bulk of what was received, including young players with futures, makes it impossible to say that the trade should be objected to, at least for me.

343

R9
ID: 2854239
Fri, Jun 25, 2010, 11:57

Yeah, I thought my offer with Phillie Utley and former Philly Lee would've helped sway things to me. :)

I think its a solid package, depends alot on how you value the pieces Judy got. One problem I can foresee for her is figuring out her 9 keepers. Trading 1 keeper for 4 potential ones might push some solid guys out of her top 9 too. Plenty of time to figure that out and keep trading though!

Yeah, pretty sure the voting lasts until midnight of the day it says, and then the players are on your team the next day.

344

R9
ID: 2854239
Fri, Jun 25, 2010, 12:06

Leading up to the prospect draft, guys like Ervin Santana, Brandon Webb, Scott Podsednik and Mr. "Whats an ER?" Kuo can be had for a prospect pick.

345

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Fri, Jun 25, 2010, 12:09

R9 - that's where the 2 #1 picks come it -- might be able to get some baaaaaaack!

346

Great One
ID: 505322312
Fri, Jun 25, 2010, 12:20

Judy - thats the thing about Loney though, he does have that track record you were looking for -- but its a track record of just .285 and 13 HR average over the last two full seasons. I don't expect he'll improve all that much on that.

Now thats a a solid player to have. But you put yourself behind in the power department (I know Alonso will be that at some point). And those numbers are "the floor" if you will for Smoak and to a lesser extent Ike... but their ceiling is much much higher which is why most seem them as more valuable. Plus they are both 3 years younger and already here and producing.

347

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Fri, Jun 25, 2010, 12:31

I was thinking the same thing as R9. While judy will get some talent back with the picks, depending upon who she has to drop she's probably looking at greater quality across several positions for this year, and (depending upon picks) she can mitigate the losses through crafty drafting in 2011.

Judy: I'm curious: How many offers did you receive?

pd

348

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Fri, Jun 25, 2010, 12:32

I should probably add that I threw an offer her way myself which was decent but I didn't think was enough to pry Pujols away! When I looked at my team, I saw that my blue chip hitter (Morneau) has almost exactly the same hitting stats as Pujols this year, and is a year younger.

349

Species
ID: 565462511
Fri, Jun 25, 2010, 12:47

IMO the objections are just sour grapes! darkside made the overwhelming "and the kitchen sink" offer, and everyone hoping to negotiate their best deal got left out n the cold. Tough $hit.

judy extracted a lot of value here. I think where I diverge from what judy got was: this league is won on the backs of STARS. Having 9 "nice" keepers won't win squat (IMO). But again, this does leave judy with some extras that she needs to get value for in order for this to work out the best....and that's hard work in this league.....but it can be done.

Big trades like this are why I love this league!

350

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Fri, Jun 25, 2010, 12:47

I'm getting all kinds of notes about this deal. Remember, during the season, I don't do anything more about a trade than anyone else. My opinion is that you shouldn't object to a deal unless y ufeel the offer is so lopsided that it is really unfair to the league as a whole.

I have not researched these players to give an honest valuation but my first thought is...can Judy honestly keep all these guys? I had to look up Cecil to see who he was. Doubt he's a keeper. I kinda like Leake but I don't think he's a keeper either. Q has been hot lately, but he's nothing compared to what he used to be. Being an OF who may end up with 20+ HRs but IIRC, he was never a HR hitter until he hit like mid 30s a couple seasons ago and then hit like 20 last season. Did he just learn how to hit or did he have some help? Hate to accuse anyone of that but with allw e know I think it has to enter your mind. Loney is very average and I follow his team. Very limited power for a 1B. Will prob hit .280-.290 which is fine and will get a steal or two per month. I hear Alonso might be something special but don't know a lot about him. But my first thought is how long before he gets to the majors so you can cash in on him? The first roudner was a given.

Based on the notes I've gotten, people seem to just feel a little odd because they felt they offered more. But again, everyone's valuations are different and they typically value their own players more.

The thing is that it seems more like Judy is making a run now instead of in the future by getting key stats/positons rather than in the future. Darkside seems to be the one rebuilding by upgrading keeper and dumping potential non-keepers. If you consdier Pujols as the best player in baseball than you may expect bigger names/potential in the deal back. But my opinion is that you need to give Judy the benefit of the doubt. You just never know.

From the notes I was getting I was assuming there were 5 or 6 objections but I only see 2. Seriously doubt this trade gets vetoed. The hardest decision for Judy might come when it's time to declare keepers. Is she goign to take the ebst players or take all of these players because of the deal?

351

Tosh
Leader
ID: 057721710
Fri, Jun 25, 2010, 12:51

No objections from my end. Good trade for both.

352

Great One
ID: 505322312
Fri, Jun 25, 2010, 12:54

Ref - i could see how she's gotten two things here -- a few guys that can help right now, and also in the future (Alonso, pick). So it seems like a mix of both.

353

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Fri, Jun 25, 2010, 13:08

It's nearly impossible to justify an objection to this trade. Judy got talent, and young talent, and a lot of it. For one player, who is not young. I'm just saying I think she could have gotten more talent. In fact, some of the offers alluded to in this thread appear to involve more talent. All I'm saying is that I hope at least two or three of the players involved turn out to be keepers, because they sure weren't keepers last year (or shouldn't have been).

354

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Fri, Jun 25, 2010, 13:20

352: Right, but being in 14th place, I was assuming she was a seller--not trying to win now and later. I'd REALLY see how this would help a top team who was trying to win now and get a prospect out of it.

I agree with Species here. These leagues were built so each team would have all kinds of options to improve his/her team now or in the future. No one would have to have a draft and play team w/o ways to trade to get better. There have been some pretty creative moves and we want to encourage these kinds of deals. Hindsight sometimes smiles or frowns on these blockbusters, but the key is that each manager must make his/her own valuation and strategy to do what's best for their team for the future.

One manager told me that Judy got 5 10th rounders at best for the ebst player in baseball. Well maybe that's true, maybe it's not, but just look at how far down some of these players were drafted who are having super years. Or look at some of these keepers or high picks who have stunk it up. My point is that we just don't really know what will happen in the future and you can look at a players past and expert analysis all you want, but in the end we all have to make the call and run with it.

355

Species
ID: 565462511
Fri, Jun 25, 2010, 14:39

Interesting the complaints. I say - they only have themselves to blame. What people refuse to consider too often are the tastes of their propsed trade partners. judy professed to not be much of a prospect follower. As such, the player's minor league pedigree and long term outlooks seem to be of much less value to her than what is going on NOW. She sees Leake's success at a young age and Cecil's whip at his age and feels she's getting two building blocks. She sees what Quentin has done in good years and thinks he'll get back there.

Maybe those conclusions are true.....maybe they're not. These types of deals are always betting on the come. Where I differ from judy....and probably where most complainers are coming from is:

judy's unfamiliarity with prospects and the likely/potential ceilings of all of the various players involved worked against her. It's like she could have had 2 Ferraris and a Lexus...but settled for 1 Corvette, 2 Mustang GTs, a minivan and a couple of Camrys.....a nice stable in one's garage for sure....just not one that's going to "wow" everyone.

356

beastiemiked
ID: 23127320
Fri, Jun 25, 2010, 14:47

No objections here. That said, wow. GO's offer sounded really awesome. I hope he at least got a chance for a counter.

357

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Fri, Jun 25, 2010, 14:50

Well, if you are puttering around town, I'd say she got a great deal....

:)

358

R9
ID: 2854239
Fri, Jun 25, 2010, 14:50

I definitely think Ref is undervaluing Leake and Cecil, but then Ref is the guy who told me he didn't think Johan Santana was a keeper after 2002. ;)

I like Cecil alot. For whatever reason, lefty control pitchers have always done well in baseball for many years.

Quentin just a year and a half ago was a guy who is a top 10 pick in our format. Its hard to understood what happened to him, he was a beast in the minors and a beast his 2nd year in. He has had two awful years in BAPIP, so it makes you wonder how long someone can run bad. Happens alot in my profession ;) and I think its an under-examined concept in baseball.

Ceiling-wise here, Judy gets a 100-30-100-.350 OF'er, two solid SP's, a 90-20-90-.360 1B, a solid player with the draft pick and a dart with Alonso. Thats really quite a haul. The bottom of course could be ugly.

359

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Fri, Jun 25, 2010, 14:55

Trades in season get one full day for review. Since the deal was accepted yesterday, it will go through at day rollover. Since waivers are processed at 1:07 am, that's prob the same time this deal goes through.

360

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Fri, Jun 25, 2010, 15:13

R9, I am definitely under-valuing Cecil because I didn't even know who he was. I knew nothing about him. Now all I know is that he was apparently picked up as a FA sometime during the season and is like 7-4 on the season.

Yep, I was wrong about Santana. I didn't think he could be a stud when he couldn't ever go more than 5 innings.

Q was a beast in the minors? Well he hit 21 HRs two straight years. We've seen guys with a LOT more HRs never pan out in the majors. I am not sold on him as a keeper moving forward, but we all know what he did a couple seasons back. If these guys are truly keeper material next season then it will make a lot more sense to everyone I think. In the end you want the players who will help you more now/future than those who have done better in the past.

361

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Fri, Jun 25, 2010, 15:20

I watched Cecil pitch not long ago. He's got some pretty good stuff, but he's like about 15-20 guys around the league with good stuff poised to move up into "stud" status. When betters adjust will he respond in kind?

In other words: Will he pan out? I dunno. Worth keeping an eye on. And I'm certain I'd rather be keeping an eye on him while he's on my roster than someone else's!

362

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Fri, Jun 25, 2010, 15:25

Cecil's been on the radar a while. I don't think he has the ceiling of a lot of players - Leake seems to be a better prospect, but he's helpful.

Point is, Judy will have to spend four keeper slots on those guys, and THAT is the biggest waste.

363

R9
ID: 2854239
Fri, Jun 25, 2010, 18:36

Well, Quentin did alot more then hit 21 HR's in the minors, he OBP'd and SLG'd like a superstar. Its not like he hit 21 HR with a .330 OBP and a 1/3 BB/K ratio. He typically had over .420 OBP, over .500 SLG and had a 1:1 BB/K ratio. Studly.

When as a 25 y/o he was able to do something very similar at the MLB level, you could assume he had arrived. His peripherals these last two years aren't horrible either, so one should expect a turnaround sooner or later.

364

Peter N.
ID: 535532221
Fri, Jun 25, 2010, 23:53

Man, this trade sure did spark some conversation which is healthy for the league. It seems like we always get one or so a year. Good stuff. It'll be very interesting to see how the trade unfolds in the future. I'm sure some people thought I gave Krod away, but at the same time, I did what I felt is best. Judy felt like she did what is best so anyone who objects should still respect that.

365

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Fri, Jun 25, 2010, 23:55

My, my my... I spend my day reffing at a lacrosse tournament in the 90 degree heat and come home to read
all of this. Such fun it is to see you try and dissect the trade.

Sorry to dis on you all, but although Al may be the "best player in (fantasy) baseball" I am not enamored of
him. That's just the way it is.

I feel that I got a lot of (potentially) good YOUNG players -- I disagree with Species who said that G20 is
won with STARS! (After a few more years experience I might agree with you but not now... and by then Al
will be really old...) Or maybe some of my guys will be STARS???

If you look at Cecil and Leake added to my current SP crew I have definitely improved there and how all of
them do this year will determine who stays and who goes. The 2 SP offer was the "straw" of the deal.

It will be true that my batter stats may take a hit (pun intended). However, I will see how this new crew
works out in the warm months of the summer.

I did pay attention to the keeper issues. How guys do will determine who stays -- right now I see 10 or 11
candidates pending...I did look over the keeper lists posted for 2010 to see who kept whom... I wonder how
many of you still have all your keepers -- because you like them or because you are stuck with them?

To answer some specifics:
PD -- I got 8 offers either via email or the CBS site. Did not do a ton of back and forth with them though...
BH -- stop dissing the trade in any way you can...
Species -- I drive a Honda CRV -- very functional car...hmmm
Peter N -- thanks for reminding everyone about G24...
Ref -- it would be interesting to see what was written to you and not posted here, but whatever...

Guys it was fun to read all of this. It certainly got some spirits moved to chime in with opinions and guesses
about what I was thinking. I LIKE what I did and we will just need to see how it all pans out. As mjd says, it
is a marathon not a sprint...

366

Species
Dude
ID: 07724916
Sat, Jun 26, 2010, 01:06

I love Honda CR-V's. Bought one for my (now ex) wife. Great car.

We can all have our opinions, but the one I want to hear is what factors lead one to not be enamored with Albert Pujols. His political beliefs? Steroid suspicion? Sexual orientation?

367

GoatLocker
ID: 1659262
Sat, Jun 26, 2010, 03:09

No complaint from me with the trade.
Just feel my offer was not enough.
Oh well, that's the way it is in this league.

368

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Sat, Jun 26, 2010, 07:23

Species -- no rhyme or reason -- just don't really like the hype -- not that he is a bad guy or a
Met or Yankee or anything like that. I think he is "clean" and a nice guy and works hard (etc,
etc, etc) Maybe because everyone seems to think he is the best player in baseball and I don't
like that tag...? Call it a gut feeling. Whatever.

369

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Sat, Jun 26, 2010, 11:15

Note on this current trade acceptance: Slizz does not have a 14th pick to return. 13th is also missing. If you two would like to rework the picks only, you may do so. What we've always done in the past is to bump up the picks to the next higher pick available unless the parties can come up with an alternate agreement that we deem to be comparable to the original draft pick deal. One time the manager asked the league to object to it/veto because he offered a first rounder he didnt have and the league obliged.

Judy: I basically told you what was sent to me. I'm assuming most of them made offers to you and some felt they offered more. I honestly thought there could be an issue of veto based on the emails but some of those people didn't feel it should be vetoed, just that you had better offers you didn't accept. Peopel can bitc hand moan all they want, but we all value players differently.

Pujols may or may not be the best player in baseball, but for me, I wouldn't trade Hanley for him. 1b seems much easier to mitigate his numbers somewhat. Now if he was 3b, I'd have come up with something creative for you!

370

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Sat, Jun 26, 2010, 12:20

Remember, the standings and prospect numbers will lock in one week prior to the Prosepct Draft which is Mondya morning, July 5th. That is also the Prospect keeper deadline. Unless you renounce your prospect(s) by that day at Noon ET, you will automatically keep that prospect (assuming he has not lost his prospect status). If you want to keep a prospect who loses eligibility at that time, please call him up to your roster before then. Please refer to our league rules for eligibility requirements.

Once standings are locked in and prospects are verified, we will conduct the lottery and have our draft set up. Hopefully we will have the time to screen the players in advance to get an idea of who is no longer eligible and who is close. It will really help if you can go through all of your own players first.

371

Peter N.
ID: 535532221
Sat, Jun 26, 2010, 12:44

In addition to Cabrera/Ruiz for Fielder/Treanor, goatlocker sends me his 1st and 2nd round picks in exchange for my 9th and 13th round picks. GL to confirm.

372

Peter N.
ID: 535532221
Sat, Jun 26, 2010, 12:45

I'd like to renounce my rights to prospect Eric Hosmer.

373

GoatLocker
Leader
ID: 060151121
Sat, Jun 26, 2010, 13:44

Confirmed

375

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Sat, Jun 26, 2010, 22:34

First day with new teams:
1B Loney 2/3 4 RBI
1B Pujols 1/4

I know -- it's a marathon...

376

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Sun, Jun 27, 2010, 10:13

I was fwd an email in which Slizz and Judy agreed to change their picks from a 10 for 14 to a 9 for 12.

377

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Mon, Jun 28, 2010, 12:34

Remember, if you have a player who is on the DL, you MUST replace him in your active lineup. If you don't have another healthy player to replace him, you MUST pick one up. You may use a part time player or a day to day guy in your active lineup if need be.

378

slizz
ID: 43133920
Mon, Jun 28, 2010, 20:33

thanks ref for holding it down while I was away!

as for some trades, Ref is right:

For the Alex Gonzalez deal: My 12th for Judy's 9th.

As for the Hart/Young for Gardner deal: No draftpicks involved.

379

Toral
ID: 4155487
Tue, Jun 29, 2010, 04:38

Commissioners:

Is Eric Hosmer now available for pickup (re post 373)? (He still has a salary attached.) If so I'd like to pick him up and drop Josh Bell 3B.

Thanx.

380

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Tue, Jun 29, 2010, 12:43

Lars Anderson, I renounce thee.

381

Guru
ID: 330592710
Tue, Jun 29, 2010, 16:05

I renounce my rights to Jeff Clement

382

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Tue, Jun 29, 2010, 16:28

Speedy prospect Ben Revere (2x winner of the Minnesota's Minor League Player of the Year award) can be had for a late round pick. Lemme know.

383

darkside
Achiever
ID: 3590317
Tue, Jun 29, 2010, 21:22

I'd like to call up Matt LaPorta (for Takahashi). He can be removed from the prospect list.

384

Judy
ID: 54203110
Tue, Jun 29, 2010, 21:58

Ok then
What are the odds that my two new SP -- Cecil and Leake
face the Phillies in their first game for me and get clobbered?

And that I sit Cueto last night vs the Phillies and their bats go
quiet?

Sheesh -- this game can humble you...

385

Tosh
Leader
ID: 057721710
Tue, Jun 29, 2010, 22:49

I renounce my prospect rights to Michael Saunders.

386

Slackjawed Yokel
ID: 38502923
Wed, Jun 30, 2010, 00:01

It looks like my roster was invalid today after my trade with
slizz went through as it put me over the roster limit. Neither of
my new guys were actually in the lineup; so I guess I'm
wondering if I can get my stats to count? I guess I'll
understand if it's considered my oversight, but I thought it
wouldn't hurt to ask.

387

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Wed, Jun 30, 2010, 00:36

386: Easier for me to fix if he wans't already dropped. I'll see what I can do to rememdy the situation.

I had wainwright in my lineup today but I must not have hit update or something because he's hsown as a reserve. That's like the 3rd or 4th time I've done that this season. Obviously I can't remedy that situation.

Got the prospects salaries removed and taken off the list (soemone else took care of Clement obviously).

388

beastiemiked
ID: 23127320
Wed, Jun 30, 2010, 00:38

Renouncing rights to Hector Rondon

389

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Wed, Jun 30, 2010, 00:52

386: I figured out a workaround.
388 done

390

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Wed, Jun 30, 2010, 09:53

Rules question: re 379. Technically, Hosmer is prospect-eligible. Is such a player allowed to be added this close to the draft? I'd been under the impression those players were off limits in the time before the draft.

Not that I want Hosmer or am trying to cause problems; just making sure we are following protocol.

391

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Wed, Jun 30, 2010, 12:17

The rule is that no prospect eligible player can be picked up once the freeze hits Sunday before the All Star Game. We expanded that last year to no player drafted in the MLB draft who are not already prospects may be picked up at all before the Prospect Draft. If someone wants to put a minor leaguer on their team all season and have to keep them as part of their 9 Keepers, well that's their risk. I don't think we want to make it so you can't ever pick up a minors player or prospect-eligible player because many of htem wouldn't even be drafted. There is no reason a prospect-eligible player would be picked up to someone's team when there are no games played except to block a draft pick. I had thought about expanding it to a week earlier at our Prospect-Lock, but then there could be issues where a team needs a one day fill-in and that player is technically prospect-eligible. Also, it's hard to expand it to a Minors-only player because CBS is a day behind lableling players from M to A.

The problem with 379 is that I forgot to add him and take the salary off and drop him which would have put him on waivers for anyone to grab. However, enough time lapsed that it was not an issue.

392

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Wed, Jun 30, 2010, 13:45

Got it. From that logic - Hosmer is valid.

393

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Wed, Jun 30, 2010, 16:50

Is anyone out there interested in J Santana?

394

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Wed, Jun 30, 2010, 16:55

For Revere, Judy?

:)

I was just looking over my draft. First couple of picks weren't bad (Soriano & Konerko) but then it went downhill fast:

Getz
Saunders
Wood (OK, now)
Pierzynski
B. Ryan
Hafner (should have been more patient)
Venable
A. Sanchez (thought he was a steal...)
Murphy
Meche
O. Perez
Manzella

Geez, what a haul.

395

slizz
ID: 43133920
Wed, Jun 30, 2010, 20:02

keeping both Devaris Gordon & Josh Lindblom

396

Slackjawed Yokel
ID: 405212423
Wed, Jun 30, 2010, 23:56

Ref(389)- thanks for handling that for me.

Saw Matusz is still listed as one of my prospects, but he is over the IP limit, so you guys can remove him from the prospect list (he's already on my active roster). thanks.

397

Species
Dude
ID: 07724916
Thu, Jul 01, 2010, 01:23

Matusz removed.

398

mjd
Leader
ID: 501381415
Thu, Jul 01, 2010, 13:21

Heyward is over the limits and on my roster.

Keeping the other 2.

399

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Thu, Jul 01, 2010, 19:12

trade announce:

BH gets J Santana
Judy gets C Gonzalez and K Drabeck

400

blue hen
ID: 8115717
Thu, Jul 01, 2010, 19:39

Confirmed and accepted on CBS. No draft picks involved.

401

slizz-bberry
ID: 6644118
Thu, Jul 01, 2010, 19:44

Blue Hen and a trade without a 1st rd pick!?!?! Wtf?

402

darkside
Achiever
ID: 3590317
Thu, Jul 01, 2010, 19:51

Hey! I thought we all agreed to stonewall blue hen on the OFer front so he'd have to keep 5 this year. What gives, Judy?

403

judy
ID: 48642817
Thu, Jul 01, 2010, 20:23

Didn't get that message re bh OF -- I did check his 2010
keeper list first -- sure likes his OF -- but I needed more
offense for my current team -- if he does well, he might even
be a keeper...

drabeck should be nice...now I only need to pick one more
prospect and since searching for legit prospect evals has
been quite fruitless, so that takes some pressure off

Gonzalez is certainly better than C Jackson

404

Great One
ID: 47515621
Thu, Jul 01, 2010, 20:25

Good deal.

405

darkside
Achiever
ID: 3590317
Thu, Jul 01, 2010, 20:43

I love all these trades. Much more lively than last year, it seems.

406

Toral
ID: 4155487
Thu, Jul 01, 2010, 21:07

Interesting factoid: on Rotoworld Season Pass's list of players ranked by keeper value, Gonzalez and Santana are two places away from each other (65 and 67).

407

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Thu, Jul 01, 2010, 21:58

398 Heyward is NOT over the limit. He has 255 ABs. He will be so it makes sense to renounce him, but he's still legal to stay on. So you must renounce him.

408

Toral
ID: 4155487
Fri, Jul 02, 2010, 07:55

Renounce Nick Weglarz -- even tho I just noticed from his profile that he as born just a few miles away from me....

409

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Fri, Jul 02, 2010, 09:28

My prospect keepers are Drabeck and Alonso.

410

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Fri, Jul 02, 2010, 10:49

Re: 406 - that's probably in a standard 5x5 league. In an OBP league, Gonzalez gets knocked down a few pegs. That's why I added Drabek, of course.

411

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Fri, Jul 02, 2010, 10:56

Your keeper are automaticlaly kept unless you renounce them or they lose eligibility. No need to post about keeping them.

Speaking of which, Strasburg has been told all season that he will be limited to 100 IPs this season, which is perfect for our 110 limit. Today I read it will be 150-160 IPs. So as long as he stays healthy, I'm going to lose him as a prospect and of season so it probably does me no good to keep him on the P-list and not re-drafting his spot. Guess I still have a couple days to see if anything else comes out.

412

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Fri, Jul 02, 2010, 10:59

Looks like you might get lucky. I heard it was 160 innings total (between minors and majors) and he had 55 in the minors.

413

mjd
Leader
ID: 501381415
Fri, Jul 02, 2010, 11:54

I renounce my prospect rightts to Jason Heyward. He'll be over
the limits by year's end.

He'll stay on my roster.

414

Great One
ID: 3265018
Fri, Jul 02, 2010, 11:57

Well I have Carlos Santana projected for 299 AB's... seriously. So gambling he'll come under.

415

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Fri, Jul 02, 2010, 12:34

This will be my first prospect I've actually been able to do anything with. Hope he makes it under but I think he will go over--even though the Nats have no chance to do a lot this season. When he's playing their gate is way up. I see them giving him extra chances--though they could skip days or starts ehre and there I suppose to make sure he throws at home.

416

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Fri, Jul 02, 2010, 12:48

I have to say something good about Trip. He had Elvis Andrus and David Price as prospects, and both were keepers this year. He's also responsible for Braun, Kemp, Shields, and Martin, who were also keepers. And he had Mark Reynolds, who I stupidly didn't keep. And also Adam Jones, who I indirectly just turned into Johan Santana. He may not have been popular in this league, but he left me with a good team and deserves a healthy portion of credit for this year's success.

417

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Fri, Jul 02, 2010, 13:30

re 416 the whole league knows that. It's good that you finally acknowledged it.

Lord knows you couldn't have done this on your own! ;)

418

Great One
ID: 3265018
Fri, Jul 02, 2010, 14:48

Its the reverse of my G24 team when I inherited Priest Holmes and Pennington... ugh.

419

youngroman
Donor
ID: 02934823
Fri, Jul 02, 2010, 17:24

you can remove Neftali Feliz from my prospect list. I hope he stays on my roster for the next decade.

420

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Fri, Jul 02, 2010, 18:50

thanks ref (or whomever) for keeping the prospect list up to date in the G20 CBS site...

421

Judy
ID: 54203110
Fri, Jul 02, 2010, 22:16

Man this is tough

My 3 SP:
17.1 inn
4 ER
No wins

422

beastiemiked
ID: 23127320
Fri, Jul 02, 2010, 23:20

With Fowler looking like he's finally going to hit and Thome finally getting starts it looks like my team wants to compete. I'm looking to add a SP and possibly some cheap saves. I'm NOT going to spend a lot so don't come in expecting my 1st rounder unless the guy I'm getting in return is pretty damn good.

Mainly looking for some grizzled vets. I'd like an SP who's most likely going to have a sub 4 ERA the rest of this year. He can be over that right now as long as he has some recent success or past success.

423

Tosh
Leader
ID: 057721710
Sat, Jul 03, 2010, 04:26

I renounce my prospect rights to Buster Posey, leaving me with 2 picks.

424

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Sat, Jul 03, 2010, 09:36

just to make sure (I think I already asked this but I can't find the post), if we draft a
prospect and he does not sign, we still get to keep him?

425

Species
Dude
ID: 07724916
Sat, Jul 03, 2010, 12:50

423: Done
424: judy, yes, so long as the player was drafted in the June draft (and you draft him in the subsequent prospect draft), you retain his rights even if he doesn't sign.

426

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Sat, Jul 03, 2010, 21:23

424: If a player is legally drafted, you can keep him until he is no longer prospect eligile at a keeper "checkpoint" (p-keeper or reg. keeper deadline).

427

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Sat, Jul 03, 2010, 21:34

Looks like our last grandfathered player, Brandon Wood, will barely escape the threshold for losing p-elig by Monday with that last DL stint. Still he will be over it this week.

I'm renounceing Jake Fox.

428

R9
ID: 2854239
Sat, Jul 03, 2010, 21:49

Anyone who sent me an email in the last couple weeks or so, my mailbox was full so I didn't get it.

Apparently Windows Live Mail defaults to having your mail server save a copy of each message you receive, forever. Filled up my mailbox storage capacity I never even knew I had. :p

Its fixed now.

429

Judy
ID: 54203110
Sat, Jul 03, 2010, 23:08

424

So he has to come from this year's draft or can he be a
draftee from an earlier draft and thus is currently playing in
the minors?

431

Species
Dude
ID: 07724916
Sat, Jul 03, 2010, 23:58

judy --- no, they do not have to be from this year's draft. As long as they are playing professional baseball in the minor league system of a Major League team they are eligible. Japanese professional players are also eligible, as are Cuban players who have yet to defect.

The distinction I was trying to make in answering your question was: let's say a high school player called Jim Smith was drafted in the 2009 draft and never signed and is playing college ball. He cannot be drafted in the 2010 Prospect Draft, because he isn't a professional baseball player.

432

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Sun, Jul 04, 2010, 08:37

I renounce rights to Carlos Carrasco.

433

Judy
ID: 54203110
Sun, Jul 04, 2010, 09:09

Got it! Thanks.

434

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Sun, Jul 04, 2010, 10:17

I renounce rights to Ben Revere.

435

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Sun, Jul 04, 2010, 11:10

Wade Davis and Latos are over the limits and on a roster and are being removed from AA's list.

436

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Sun, Jul 04, 2010, 11:36

I went through every prospect. At first glance, I didn't notice any other prospect that were over the threshold--though some were very very close. Please go through all your prospects and double check--esp the Pitchers who may have 40 games pitches (may have to go back through season log and count games from last season). It is each manager's responsibility to take care of their own prospects. If a prospect is found later to have been over the threshold by the deadline and was not removed, he will later be removed without compensation.

If a player does not hit the threshold after today and you choose to retain him and he hits his threshold this season, you may still keep him as a prospect until the end of the season (if not called up). At that time he will be moved to your active roster and removed from your prospect list and you must declare him as one of your 9 keepers in order to retain him.

If a prospect is on your active roster and is found to be over the prospect limits, you will lose him as a prospect immediately.

437

GoatLocker
Leader
ID: 060151121
Sun, Jul 04, 2010, 12:01

I'm renouncing Aaron Crow

438

darkside
Achiever
ID: 3590317
Sun, Jul 04, 2010, 12:13

I'll decide by tomorrow what to do w/ Wood.

439

darkside
Achiever
ID: 3590317
Sun, Jul 04, 2010, 23:13

I'll renounce the rights to Wood.

440

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Mon, Jul 05, 2010, 10:00

I updated the rules removing the grandfathered rules.

441

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Mon, Jul 05, 2010, 11:01

1 Blue Hen 83.5 72.0 155.5 -6.5 0.0
2 Endangered Species 61.0 85.5 146.5 1.5 9.0
3 Ref 44.0 94.5 138.5 0.0 17.0
3 GoatLockers Goons 59.5 79.0 138.5 -1.0 17.0
5 Darkside of ACME 72.5 62.0 134.5 8.5 21.0
6 GO's Gaslight Anthem 72.5 59.5 132.0 0.0 23.5
7 bmd 74.5 51.5 126.0 4.5 29.5
8 Slizz's Salami Farts 43.0 82.0 125.0 -3.0 30.5
9 allhair allstars 66.5 52.5 119.0 6.0 36.5
10 Jaydog 79.5 39.0 118.5 -7.0 37.0
11 Guru 51.5 56.5 108.0 6.0 47.5
12 Slackjawed Yokel 46.0 53.5 99.5 1.0 56.0
13 youngroman's Luschen 69.5 22.5 92.0 3.0 63.5
14 Judy's Ghostie 38.5 47.0 85.5 0.5 70.0
15 mjd 55.5 24.0 79.5 1.5 76.0
16 Tosh 21.0 58.0 79.0 8.5 76.5
17 Utley's Elderly Crew 37.0 36.0 73.0 -4.5 82.5
18 Toral Blues 24.0 37.0 61.0 -5.5 94.5
19 Pete's Pansies 27.0 27.0 54.0 -7.0 101.5
20 Mo Vaughn's Breakfast Buffet 23.5 11.0 34.5 -6.5 121.0

442

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Mon, Jul 05, 2010, 11:04

There is a tie for 3rd with myself and GL. We will roll to break the tie. The winner will get the higher pick in the draft.

7th to 20th will be in the lottery draw. Still have about an hour for people to renounce prospects.

443

Judy
ID: 54203110
Mon, Jul 05, 2010, 11:05

Sorry
Do not understand any of the numbers in 441????

444

Judy
ID: 54203110
Mon, Jul 05, 2010, 11:08

I am in 14th, so I pick 7th? Right?

445

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Mon, Jul 05, 2010, 11:20

441 is the standings as of this morning and is the official standings for purposes of the prospect draft next week. We cannot determine raft order yet as we have to run the lottery and then determine how many picks will occur each round. We can't do that until after the prospect deadline.

We have determined that I have won the tiebreaker against Goatlocker and will pick ahead of him. Tiebreaks are run by a program of 10x10 die rolled 10 times. The order is in alphabetical order of our rotoguru usernames. I finished with 571 and GL had 508. The results were sent to GL, myself and Guru.

446

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Mon, Jul 05, 2010, 11:22

The standings have been sent to Guru for the lottery. Even if a manager doesn't have a pick he/she will be in the lottery. We will not draw the lottery until after the deadline.

447

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Mon, Jul 05, 2010, 11:27

Today is the prospect deadline, is that right? Do this week the number of picks will be determined and the lottery for top 3 picks will be right?

448

Guru
ID: 330592710
Mon, Jul 05, 2010, 11:47

Spreadsheet with lottery number combinations is here: http://rotoguru1.com/base/G20-Jul10-14x4_balls.xls

449

Judy
ID: 54203110
Mon, Jul 05, 2010, 12:19

Re 444

Am I right about 7th pick? If not please let me know as I will
need to do more research...

450

Judy
ID: 54203110
Mon, Jul 05, 2010, 12:21

That SS was Greek to me!

Lookalike I gotta wait and see...

451

Species
Dude
ID: 07724916
Mon, Jul 05, 2010, 12:29

judy -- no, you are not guaranteed the 7th pick. You COULD pick 1st, 2nd or 3rd too! Or, others behind you could vault ahead of you in the lottery. To be safe - in terms of your research/queue - the worst you could possibly do is 10th.

452

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Mon, Jul 05, 2010, 12:42

OK the prospect deadline has come and gone. I'm surprised as I thought there were some others who would be renounced. Will work on prospects now.

453

Judy
ID: 54203110
Mon, Jul 05, 2010, 12:46

Thanks species...

454

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Mon, Jul 05, 2010, 12:48

And the lottery winner is...

YOKEL!!!

455

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Mon, Jul 05, 2010, 12:50

2nd pick goes to...

R9!!!

456

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Mon, Jul 05, 2010, 12:51

3rd ball is R9...repick

457

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Mon, Jul 05, 2010, 12:52

4th ball and 3rd pick goes to...

PD!!!

458

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Mon, Jul 05, 2010, 12:55

So Yokel gets the upset with a less than 2.5% chance. R9 had over a 10% chance and got drawn twice. Then PD with the favorite and about a 1 in 4 chance nabs the 4th ball and 3rd pick.

Prospects
(Draft Rounds 1-3, '04; 4-5, '05; 6-8, '06; 9-11, '07; 12-14, '08; 15-17, '09)

MGR: #, Name,Pos,Team,(# Call-ups), *not in db/salary

Allhair: 15.06 Desmond Jennings,OF,TB
bmd: 12.09 Brett Wallace,3B,TOR; 15.14 Michael Taylor,OF,OAK
Blue Hen:15.04 Michael Stanton,1B,FLA
Darkside:
GoatLocker 12.08 Yu Darvish,P,JAP*; 15.02 Freddie Freeman,1B,ATL
Great One 15.05 Carlos Santana,C,Cle(1);15.17 Dominic Brown,OF,PHI;
Guru: 15.12 Timothy Alderson,P,PIT
Jaydog: 15.09 Jarrod Parker,P,ARI; 16.04 Austin Jackson,OF,DET(1); 17.01 Michael Bowden,P,Bos
Judy: 12.07 Yonder Alonso,1B,Cin; 15.18 Kyle Drabek,P,TOR
mjd:12.17 Madison Bumgarner,P,SF; 12.18 Tim Beckham,SS,TB
PD: 15.03 Albertin Aroldis Chapman,P,CIN;16.01 Michael Ynoa,SP,OAK
Peter N: 15.16 Josh Vitters,3B,CHC; 17.02 Jhoulys Chacin,P,COL
Ref: 15.01 Stephen Strasburg,P,WAS(1); 16.08 Sean Doolittle,1B,OAK
R9: 9.05 Michael Moustakas,3B,KC;
SlackYokel: 13.02 Jeremy Hellickson,P,TB
Slizz 15.07 Josh Lindblom,SP,LAD; 16.03 Devaris "Dee" Gordon,SS,LAD
Species: 16.10 Eric O. Young,2B,COL; 17.03 Casey Kelly,P,BOS
Toral: 15.10 Dustin Ackley,OF,SEA
Tosh: 15.11 Donovan Tate,OF,SD
youngroman:12.01 Pedro Alvarez,3B,Pit; 15.08 Jesus Montero,C,NYY

459

Guru
ID: 330592710
Mon, Jul 05, 2010, 13:01

lottery results confirmed.

460

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Mon, Jul 05, 2010, 13:04

Base Order for Round 18:

1. Yokel
2. R9
3. PD
4. Pete
5. Toral
6. Tosh
7. mjd
8. Judy
9. YR
10. Guru
11. Jaydog
12. AA
13. Slizz
14. bmd
15. GO
16. Darkside
17. Ref
18. GO
19. Species
20. bh

Base Order for Rounds 19-20 if needed:

1. PD
2. Pete
3. Toral
4. R9
5. Tosh
6. mjd
7. Judy
8. YR
9. Yokel
10. Guru
11. Jaydog
12. AA
13. Slizz
14. bmd
15. GO
16. Darkside
17. Ref
18. GO
19. Species
20. bh

461

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Mon, Jul 05, 2010, 13:05

I will be back soon to get the final draft order up after putting in traded picks and removing picks for managers who forfeited picks by keeping prospect(s).

462

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Mon, Jul 05, 2010, 13:33

I think this is the 3rd lottery I've "lost." Hmmm.

463

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Mon, Jul 05, 2010, 13:52

Round 18
1. Yokel
2. R9
3. PD
4. Pete
5. Toral
6. Tosh
7. mjd
8. Judy
9. YR
10. Guru
11. AA
12. Slizz
13. bmd
14. R9
15. Darkside
16. Ref
17. GL
18. Species
19. bh

Round 19
1. Toral
2. R9
3. Tosh
4. Yokel
5. Guru
6. AA
7. Darkside
8. bh

Round 20
1. Darkside

32 prospects left. 28 picks.

464

Judy
ID: 54203110
Mon, Jul 05, 2010, 14:54

Gotta find one more guy I like...

465

Bh
ID: 18625520
Mon, Jul 05, 2010, 21:25

Pd - I lost the Strasburg draft... But got Stanton. Sometimes
it works out.

466

R9
ID: 2854239
Mon, Jul 05, 2010, 22:58

Niiiice. :)

467

Judy
ID: 54203110
Mon, Jul 05, 2010, 23:13

Sorry to be so lame here, trying not to mess up...

Kid in college, drafted in 2010 MLB draft, decides to go back
to school.

If I draft, is he mine?

468

Species
Dude
ID: 07724916
Tue, Jul 06, 2010, 02:02

judy: YES

So long as he was just drafted this June, he is eligible to be drafted in our Prospect Draft, and you would retain his rights until such time as he hits the prospect At Bat, Innings Pitched or Games Pitched limits.

469

Judy
ID: 54203110
Tue, Jul 06, 2010, 12:14

Anyone interested in ichiro?

470

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Wed, Jul 07, 2010, 10:02

The rule is that no prospect eligible player can be picked up once the freeze hits Sunday before the All Star Game.

I propose for 2011 that we change it to a week earlier, matching the date of the standings freeze. I see that a couple people have picked up prospect eligible people on speculation, perhaps because they realized they would have a good p-draft pick. I would like to discourage that. Does anyone else support that idea?

471

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Wed, Jul 07, 2010, 10:48

Perhaps. Or perhaps they want to keep them. I would be against such a preemptive change in the rules.

472

Great One
ID: 3265018
Wed, Jul 07, 2010, 11:40

Any word on if Choo needs surgery yet Indians fans? I vote he gets it, why risk playing through an injury on this lost season for the Indians?

473

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Wed, Jul 07, 2010, 11:43

They're saying no. Looks like six weeks. Sure, that stinks, but maybe it's nature's way of giving the rest of you a chance.

PD - my point is that it undermines the prospect draft, and just means that some useful players are taken out of the pot. I have the 19th pick, so it's not like anyone good was going to get to me anyway, but if I picked, say, 10th, I'd be pretty fumed about it.

474

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Wed, Jul 07, 2010, 11:49

I understand not wanting to undermine the draft, but doing it at the expense of the regular season probably isn't the best way to go about it.

Those prospect-eligible players who are picked up would need to be kept as regular keepers by those managers. That is typically discouragement enough. I'd be leery of extending the no-prospect waiver pickup ban to anytime before the prospect keeper due date myself.

475

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Wed, Jul 07, 2010, 11:56

470 As I posted before, I am torn by this. Ultimately I have come down on the conclusion as PD alluded to in 474. I don't think it's right at all to undermine the p-draft but we have protected the 2010 draft picks. So the other guys could have been picked up at any time in the season. How far do we go back? Slippery Slope perhaps.

Could bmd/Toral post their draft pick trade? I am swamped right now and noticed that no one posted the pick exchanges in rules.

476

Great One
ID: 3265018
Wed, Jul 07, 2010, 12:07

I don't know, 2 months ago your lead was 62 points on me, now its down to 27. So I figure even before the Choo injury we were heading the right direction.

477

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Wed, Jul 07, 2010, 12:36

You mean the wrong direction.

478

Great One
ID: 3265018
Wed, Jul 07, 2010, 12:37

Depends on your perspective -- lets take a vote, i bet you lose! :)

479

Toral
ID: 4155487
Wed, Jul 07, 2010, 13:08

bmd's 3rd for my 8th.

480

Toral
ID: 4155487
Wed, Jul 07, 2010, 13:20

I'm not even sure what is the ill this rule change is meant to remedy. Start with bluehen's

I see that a couple people have picked up prospect eligible people on speculation, perhaps because they realized they would have a good p-draft pick.

What does that mean? On speculation of what? Why would the realization that they "would have a good p-draft pick" cause someone to pick someone up on speculation.

If this has something to do with managers picking up players because they believe they might be keeper-worthy, then it means that the players are worth more to the people picking them up than they are to the hypothetical managers who would want to pick them in the prospect draft, since these hypothetical managers are not willing to risk having to use a regular keeper slot on them.

481

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Wed, Jul 07, 2010, 15:00

But they're not risking a regular slot on these players. They are going to hold them for two weeks without any intention of playing them, making the prospect pool more shallow. And then they'll put the players back in the player pool so they can only be kept as regular keepers until next year.

482

beastiemiked
ID: 23127320
Wed, Jul 07, 2010, 15:25

I'm with bh on this one. It really doesn't change much but it stops the guys that get a top 3 or top 5 pick from cherry picking a bunch of guys that aren't top 3 or top 5 picks. If people want the guys in the minors then they should just pick them up before the lottery. However, if they do pick them up and drop them before the prospect draft then they shouldn't be allowed to draft them.

To prevent "useful" guys not being able to be picked up we make a rule that if a guy gets called up between the prospect freeze and the prospect draft, he's free to be picked up.

It's a small change and stops a rebuilding team that gets the #1-#5 pick from blocking teams from getting mid range prospects. Honestly, I'm shocked that anyone would be against it.

483

beastiemiked
ID: 23127320
Wed, Jul 07, 2010, 15:33

Toral, let's say you have the #1 pick. You are certain who you are going to select with that pick. After that guy, you see 3-4 guys that are eligible to be picked up and will most likely be above average fantasy players in the near future. You would've been happy to get any of these guys as prospects but since you have only 1 pick there's absolutely no way you'll get any of these guys as prospects unless you trade for another pick.

If you have no fantasy sports ethics you'll pick these guys up and either drop them in a few weeks or see if they get called up and become superstars in August or September. I realize most of us wouldn't do that but there's nothing that is preventing someone from doing it.

484

Great One
ID: 3265018
Wed, Jul 07, 2010, 16:14

Force them to be kept if they are added in that window?

485

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Wed, Jul 07, 2010, 16:15

Or at least held for a month or more. Roster spots are precious in this league.

487

R9
ID: 2854239
Wed, Jul 07, 2010, 20:51

FWIW, I knew you'd start a storm about it, and didn't care. :p You owned him as recently as two weeks ago. If you really wanted him, you probably should've held on to him?
I plan on holding Kimbrel all year and probably keeping him. He's got 2011 closer written all over him, and I don't see why I should let you have a shot at prospect drafting him when I'm quite content to have him be my 8th or 9th keeper.

Waiting to see where I was in the draft lottery had nothing to do with it. In fact, I thought he was on YOUR roster. I only noticed he was a FA when I was doing my prospect research. I saw he was a legal pickup per the rules, and also saw he has a chance to reach the prospect playing limits THIS YEAR, so decided to make him one of my 9 keepers instead of a prospect pick.

That said, I can see where this can be an issue, if someone picks up a guy so others can't draft him a a prospect, and then drops him post-draft. But is that not true for the weeks leading up to the draft as well? You could've held on to Kimbrel until July 20th and then dropped him, preventing anyone else from having him as a prospect. Perhaps even unintentionally. So how far back do we go on this?

488

R9
ID: 2854239
Wed, Jul 07, 2010, 20:56

Just to clarify:

1) Someone rebuilding who pre-draft picks up a prospect-eligible player and holds on to him with the intention of keeping them is not being unethical. If they feel that player makes a better keeper then one of their older bums, thats their decision. (In this case, Kimbrel will either have value next year or he won't, its unlikely he'll be in the minors for another 18 months.)

2) Someone picking up a prospect eligible player pre-draft with the sole intention of denying the other managers the chance to draft them as a prospect, only to drop them post-draft, is being unethical. Though I somewhat fail to see the benefit to said manager, as that player is now no longer theirs anymore? While the others can't keep him as a prospect, he too can't?

489

Toral
ID: 4155487
Wed, Jul 07, 2010, 21:07

It's because roster spots are precious that I think the danger of abuse here isn't that great. Few people have 3 or 4 players whom they don't care about losing and would drop to pick someone up, especially just so that no one else can pick them up in the prospect draft.

Or, re 483, what do I care that some mid-range teams are going to get good prospects. I certainly wouldn't pick Joe Midrangeprospect and hold him for 2 weeks so that some unknown owner can't pick up as a prospect....you would have to be pathologically spiteful to want to do something like that. If you aren't planning on holding him you gain no advantage over all other owners in getting him in the end (when he's worth picking up on present accomplishment) anyway.

Having said all that, I don't see any serious harm in bluehen's idea of changing the freeze date either. It would require people who are thinking of taking the serious risk of losing a roster slot and considering using a keeper on a prospect to think ahead a bit. Wouldn't do any harm.

490

beastiemiked
ID: 23127320
Wed, Jul 07, 2010, 21:48

[i]1) Someone rebuilding who pre-draft picks up a prospect-eligible player and holds on to him with the intention of keeping them is not being unethical. If they feel that player makes a better keeper then one of their older bums, thats their decision. (In this case, Kimbrel will either have value next year or he won't, its unlikely he'll be in the minors for another 18 months.)[/i]

Of course, I'm all for teams that are out of contention to drop some of their bums and pick up young guys. It's part of this league and the part that makes being out of contention bearable.

I don't know how you can discount bh's point though. Clearly, a minor league player has much much more value as a prospect rather than a regular roster player.

Let's use an example.

If I picked #10 and I had 5-7 guys I'd like to have as prospects. More than likely one of those guys is falling to me so I'd be shooting myself in the foot by picking up 2-3 of them before the prospect draft. If I did , I'd get a crappier prospect and if I'm lucky a slight keeper upgrade.

Now if I pick #1 I could pick up the 2-3 guys without much consequence. I'm not dropping them since I'm out of contention and they might be keepers. I can keep 1-2 of them and throw the other guys back to the supp. draft in which I can redraft them if I really feel the need. A huge win-win.

Obviously, situations like this aren't going to happen a lot but it just makes sense to change the freeze date. We can add the clause if the guy gets promoted to the majors during the freeze that he'll be eligible to be picked up.

Personally, I'd like to just change the prospect draft to a week after the mlb draft. I understand why we do it during the AS break but it just makes much more sense to do it asap after the mlb draft. Last year we had 31 picks so it's not like the draft will take more than a day or two.

491

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Wed, Jul 07, 2010, 22:25

I don't know how you can discount bh's point though.

You can discount the point where it isn't worth pursuing in two ways:

-how, exactly, can you prove the intent that bh is trying to circumvent?

-any efforts to try to "fix" this "problem" will cut into regular season strategy.

Case in point: Millwood goes on the DL. I'm looking for a young guy to pick up, and see a couple of promising guys who are going to get a spot start this week. Perfect, right? I don't need a guy long term (though it would be nice). but I can't pick either of them up because they are prospect eligible.

Now, BH is proposing adding a week (or more) to that time, because there might be a player that is suddenly so good as to not be drafted already to be picked up early (or denied to someone else) by a guy with an extra roster spot during that window.

R9 is exactly right in #488. This isn't a problem, as a manager has virtually no incentive to act the way we are trying to prevent them from acting.

We've had a prospect draft for years. Has there been any hint of something like this happening by any of the 20 managers in any year we've done this?

492

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Wed, Jul 07, 2010, 22:37

BTW, in case any of these guys were on your cheatsheets:

5 minor leaguers get 50 game bans

493

beastiemiked
ID: 23127320
Wed, Jul 07, 2010, 22:44

[html][i]Case in point: Millwood goes on the DL. I'm looking for a young guy to pick up, and see a couple of promising guys who are going to get a spot start this week. Perfect, right? I don't need a guy long term (though it would be nice). but I can't pick either of them up because they are prospect eligible.[/i][html]

Pretty sure bh isn't saying to disallow pickups of guys in the majors. Kimbrel is in the minors now so under my proposed rule he wouldn't be eligible to be picked up unless he was called up between now and the prospect draft. Not allowing minor league player pickups for a week should in no way affect a manager trying to get a spot start.

We would have to make a drop deadline a few days before the lottery to prevent someone dropping a minor league player within the freeze days in order to draft him in the prospect draft. For example, have a drop date of 6/30. That would allow the guy to clear waivers so if anyone else wanted to take a chance before the prospect draft then they'd have an opportunity to.

494

R9
ID: 2854239
Wed, Jul 07, 2010, 22:45

490, I understand what you are saying.

I guess there's really only two ways to look at it:

1) Teams willing to forgo 2-3 roster spots to pickup and then maybe keep some prospects are getting an unfair advantage on youth.

2) Teams willing to forgo 2-3 roster spots to pickup and then maybe keep some prospects are using their bench spots to further whatever strategy they see fit.

I would argue 2, but then I AM rebuilding, so it definitely benefits me more. I've been a contender though, and watched owners like Twarpy and Hen pickup and keep some pretty young guys that definitely could've been prospect draft eligible. If we're trying to outlaw this practice, then we'd have to ask why. Right now Hen just wants to make this avoidable for a slightly longer period of time. Why?

In your two scenarios:

Clearly, a minor league player has much much more value as a prospect rather than a regular roster player.

This isn't equal for all managers. Right now for me, I can afford to keep a guy like Kimbrel in my top 9 because I don't have alot of depth. He'll be a MLB player for me next year, while also allowing me to draft several more prospects. Obviously to a contender, they'd rather have Kimbrel as a prospect. In fact, he's borderline useless to a contender who has 12+ keeper-quality players. (Which is why Hen dropped him.) For me, that would prevent me from drafting another prospect. So not all scenarios are equal to all teams.

Now if I pick #1 I could pick up the 2-3 guys without much consequence. I'm not dropping them since I'm out of contention and they might be keepers. I can keep 1-2 of them and throw the other guys back to the supp. draft in which I can redraft them if I really feel the need. A huge win-win.

Two things here. #1, if a prospect gets tossed back into the supp. draft, other teams have a shot at them. Which is good enough for me. And if he gets kept, thats ok with me too. (And has been done before by rebuilders.)
#2, so what if a bottom team gets a win-win out of something like this? This is bad why exactly? If this maneuvre lets me get the prospects I want AND lets me maybe have Kimbrel next year, how is this usage of my roster and prospects unethical? I'm just making my team better. I know its a net-negative to a team like Hen. So? Isn't that why we compete?? ;)

FWIW, I agree that I'd like to see the draft in the off-season.

495

R9
ID: 2854239
Wed, Jul 07, 2010, 22:49

Also FWIW, I'm fine with making a 'do not pickup' deadline a week or so before the declare deadline. I just don't see it changing much. Rebuilding teams like me will always weigh the benefit/disadvantage of picking up a young guy for their top 9 or prospect list, and sometimes that will make them lean towards the top 9.

The only way to avoid this, imo, is to expand the prospect rosters to make them deeper. I'm all for that, but thats a major change that I'm pretty sure would not get majority consent.
We'd also need to move the draft to the off-season after the supp. draft.

496

R9
ID: 2854239
Wed, Jul 07, 2010, 22:50

The rule would close down a loophole. Maybe it hasn't been taken advantage of but how can we really prove when a manager does take advantage of it. I mean would R9 have picked up Kimbrel if he had the 10th pick in the draft? Probably but you can kinda see where there's a gray area.

I guess my question is why is this considered a loophole? It'd be making a roster move to benefit my team, at the expense of other teams. A shrewd maneuver maybe, but how is it unethical or a loophole? We are competing here, right?

497

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Wed, Jul 07, 2010, 22:59

how can we really prove when a manager does take advantage of it

That's the point. We can't. So we don't try to fix the "problem" which we can't even agree exists, let alone has been "taken advantage" of.

498

beastiemiked
ID: 23127320
Wed, Jul 07, 2010, 23:19

It's a loophole in the fact that someone might not pick up a prospect if he has a shot at drafting him as a prospect. If you pick 1-3 more than likely you're picking a guy that was in this year's mlb draft. If you fall into one of those coveted spots, why would a rebuilding team not pick up a guy that is in AAA and most likely will be drafted in this years prospect draft? It's a no lose situation.

R9, you are crazy if you don't think having Kimbrel as a prospect would be much more valuable than having to keep him next year. Look at some of the guys picked in the 1st round of the supp draft. Any of those guys probably could've been had for a 3rd or 4th round supp pick some probably even cheaper. A prospect if he's starts the year in the majors is essentially a 10th keeper.

499

R9
ID: 2854239
Wed, Jul 07, 2010, 23:47

It's a loophole in the fact that someone might not pick up a prospect if he has a shot at drafting him as a prospect. If you fall into one of those coveted spots, why would a rebuilding team not pick up a guy that is in AAA and most likely will be drafted in this years prospect draft? It's a no lose situation.

But why is this bad??? Its a strategic choice between keeper list and prospect list. You are making it sound evil and unfair. Yes, a rebuilding team is more likely to take advantage of this then a contending team. So that means we nerf it? How is that fair to the rebuilding team??? As long as all 20 teams have a legit chance at doing the same thing, I fail to see the unfairness?

R9, you are crazy if you don't think having Kimbrel as a prospect would be much more valuable than having to keep him next year.

He would be more valuable to YOU as a prospect. To me, I'd rather have Kimbrel AND another 3 prospects, because I'm rebuilding. My choices:
1) Kimbrel as a 9th keeper, 3 other prospects on p-roster.
2) Kimbrel as one of my 3 prospects, a 9th keeper who is some half-decent MLB player, and another 2 prospects on my p-roster.

Difference: A 9th marginal MLB keeper or a long-term prospect on the p-roster. Which sounds more interesting to a rebuilding team like mine? I've targetted 5-6 guys who will be much more useful longterm to me as players on my p-roster then keeping one more of my current mediore players. That doesn't make me crazy. :p It just means I've evaluated my situation differently then you have.

At the end of the day each manager will try to come up with the best strategy, within the rules, to better his team. I get that Hen wanted Kimbrel. So did I? He had the same chance as me, as did the other 18 managers, to pick him up.

500

Toral
ID: 4155487
Thu, Jul 08, 2010, 00:29

Just on the side, I'm strongly in favour of having the draft at the ASB and strongly against having it pre-season. If anyone supporting such a change recommends any change affecting prospect rules, or keepers in general, I will vote against it, because such changes should be voted on together.

Partly because I'm drafted out by the start of baseball season, while a draft in mid-season is a pleasurable challenge.

More importantly...a pre-season draft coddles those managers who don't really follow baseball and just use lists. Many list sources don't update regularly or well, so an ASB draft rewards those who actually check how the "prospects" are playing. This year.

Toral

501

beastiemiked
ID: 1764780
Thu, Jul 08, 2010, 01:55

But why is this bad??? Its a strategic choice between keeper list and prospect list. You are making it sound evil and unfair. Yes, a rebuilding team is more likely to take advantage of this then a contending team. So that means we nerf it? How is that fair to the rebuilding team??? As long as all 20 teams have a legit chance at doing the same thing, I fail to see the unfairness?

It's unfair because it gives an advantage to those that win the lottery(which is already a lucky advantage). Why should other rebuilding teams have to lose twice(they lose the lottery and lose out on prospects that weren't picked up before the lottery) while teams that win the lottery get the top guys from this years MLB draft and can cherry pick the best AAA talent?

I just want to hear one good reason why minor league players shouldn't be locked for the week between the lottery and the prospect draft. Pickups for guys that get promoted to the majors or guys that are already in the majors during this week would be perfectly acceptable.

502

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Thu, Jul 08, 2010, 02:16

They already are locked during that week. BH proposed extending that to at least two weeks, with the additional condition that the players picked up should held for a month minimum.

503

beastiemiked
ID: 23127320
Thu, Jul 08, 2010, 02:43

PD, we are in the midst of that week(the week between the standing freeze/lottery and the prospect draft). R9 picked up Kimbrel and Tosh picked up Hudson both still in the minors after the prospect draft order was determined.

504

R9
ID: 2854239
Thu, Jul 08, 2010, 02:44

I just want to hear one good reason why minor league players shouldn't be locked for the week between the lottery and the prospect draft. Pickups for guys that get promoted to the majors or guys that are already in the majors during this week would be perfectly acceptable.

I have none, and have even said I'm for it. Its just not going to do anything to stop what you guys perceive to be a problem, and requires more commish micro-managing. It really changes very little.

I think what happened here is you guys think I picked up Kimbrel after I got the 2nd pick, which isn't what happened. I had Kimbrel on my radar since the off-season, and by the time I decided to fold on this year he was already on Hen's team. When researching for the draft (I started once I saw the lotto had taken place) I went down a few lists and did some searches in G20. Once I saw Kimbrel was no longer on hen's roster, I added him to my list.
I then realized that he had a slight risk of going over the prospect threshold this year, as he's likely to be called up for the stretch run. I weighed that risk along with the benefit of keeping him over a guy like XX on my team (and getting another prospect in the draft), and decided to just pick him up now.

Which is really no different from my having Logan Morrison on my roster, or the other AAA guys on some of the other G20 rosters. The timing just made it look suspicious I guess.

Making all minor league players unpickupable(new word? ;) for one week won't change 99.9% of the instances of this, and from what I understand that isn't even what you guys are trying to stop. My pickup is probably the first time this has happened, and wasn't even for the reasons you thought it was. So if we want to change the rule to prevent something that has never happened, alright I guess.

505

beastiemiked
ID: 23127320
Thu, Jul 08, 2010, 02:47

Toral, my idea was for the prospect draft to be held a week after the mlb draft. That would typically mean the middle of June sometime. I have been thinking of some cons for doing it then so unless others really like that idea then I doubt it'll even go to a vote.

506

R9
ID: 2854239
Thu, Jul 08, 2010, 02:47

Tosh's pickup makes me lean towards PD's side. I get that you don't really like my pickup of Kimbrel that much, since you think I'm circumnavigating the prospect draft.

But Tosh's pickup is grabbing a guy in anticipation of a possible start. When is it 'official' that he can be picked up under your proposed rule? Once a news source confirms his callup? Which ones? How can we be sure that whoever grabs him did so before or after an official confirmation?

507

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Thu, Jul 08, 2010, 10:59

No problem with Hudson. That's a legit pickup any way you slice it. Kimbrel's the issue, and for the record, I applaud R9 for doing it because it's within the rules. Honestly, that's why he was on my roster to begin with, but I had to dump him when my injuries piled up and Venters looked like a potential challenger.

The key point is this. I am in G20 because I like the challenge - one of the interesting challenges is managing the prospect draft. It makes me take a closer look at the minors, and I don't get that in any other league.

Picking up minor leaguers with no intent to keep them or even play them and only using up a roster slot for ten week... severely damages the prospect draft. There are now fewer prospects to consider and p-draft picks are less valuable. I actually benefit from this because my picks are lousy anyway. So basically, if there was a stiffer penalty to picking up someone you had no intention of playing, it would make for a much more solid p-draft, and a more fun experience for me. And that's the point. It's the same reason I keep voting down extra keepers in Dirty Dozen - it keeps the league more interesting in my opinion.

Does it matter? Who knows. The best thing about this is it set BMD off, and we can always use more of that.

508

beastiemiked
ID: 23127320
Thu, Jul 08, 2010, 11:42

R9, that's a simple fix. Just have it where minor leaguers can be picked up within that 1 week period. However, if they aren't called up then they are eligible to be drafted by other teams.

BTW, I never believed you intentionally tried to circumvent the draft. Kimbrel might turn out to be a fantastic keeper. Good luck with him.

509

Tosh on vacation
ID: 28630816
Thu, Jul 08, 2010, 17:32

Was my pickup of hudson against the rules? If so, sorry. I'm camping for a couple weeks in the woods of Oregon and only check in a couple times a day for minutes at a time, and the opportunity to re-power my laptop is intermittent. Didn't even consider the rules when picking up Hudson.

If he was against the rules, please just waive him, and leave the slot empty until after the ASB. Thanks.

510

Tosh on vacation
ID: 28630816
Thu, Jul 08, 2010, 17:32

If he was against the rules, please just waive him, and leave the slot empty until after the ASB. Thanks.

511

Tosh on vacation
ID: 28630816
Thu, Jul 08, 2010, 17:33

If he was against the rules, please just waive him, and leave the slot empty until after the ASB. Thanks.

512

mjd
Leader
ID: 501381415
Thu, Jul 08, 2010, 18:05

I think there may be a questionable loophole here. Not sure what
(if anything) needs to be done about it, but there seems to be
more than a few teams rebuilding (or at least considering it), so
now it seems relivant.

Perhaps we should consider revisiting this prior to the start of
next season to see if the league wants to make any alteration in
the rules regarding prospects. I've seen some good arguements
for both sides.

I've actually looked at some of the players discussed as potential
propect picks and wondered if they would still be available once
it was my pick. Never really considered picking them up, as
though aparently legal, I personally think it's a gray area.

And as one of those teams rebuilding, I would certainly consider
keeping them next year.

513

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Thu, Jul 08, 2010, 19:19

Guys, all of htis hsa been discussed before. I've laid out the reasons for initial rules and reasons why we never changed those. You know me, I'm always up for a change if the league thinks it will make it better. We actually changed the standings and p-keeper date up a week before the draft as we were doing all of this on the day of the draft before and it was nuts. Hard on everyone trying to figure out lottery and draft times and legal keepers, etc.

As far as "circumventing the draft." I think that's impossible to enforce outside of the current rules. We anticipated a lot of what has been discussed and is why no prospects-eligible may be picked up as of the freeze this Sunday until after the draft. We have reversed a couple of these transactions. There is absolutely no reason for these players to be picked up as there are no games going on. Also, this is easily enforceable.

As I posted before, I actually like the idea of no prospect-elibile players picked up a week earlier--in theory, but we are playing games and there may be an actual need to put a prospect-eligible player in your active lineup. Also, what if an illegal player is picked up and used before we find it?

The league decided at the onset that they wanted to be allowed to pick up anyone in the CBS database. Some are minors players who will never see the bigs. IIRC, they have to be on 40 man rosters--or at least they did back then. I know Strasburg changed all that so who knows what they do now.

I also really like some of the comments about Tosh's pickup being ok because he can use him in his lineup and R9's pickup can't. That makes total sense to me. But, where do we stop? They aren't on waivers so when would they be allowed to be picked up? When they might be called up? When they were officially called up and what source do we use as official? How do we enforce?

This is NOT something that is new to us. Twarpy and Species were a couple notorious for picking up prospects on their team. I'm pretty sure bh and GO did this as well. It's their strategy and as long as they have healthy and active starters in their lineups, what they do with the rest of their bench is fine as long as they are trying to win now or doing the best they can now while positioning themselves for the future.

Personally, I've never been a big fan of the whole prospect idea. RFS suggested it to me in our first season and we had a long talk about it. Even though I was against it, I presented it to the league. I voted against it and it was passed 11-9. Since then, I've still nto been a big fan, but the league seems to really like it, so I think it's good in that aspect. It's also another source of improvign your team now or in the future via trading. I love the openess to this league and all the ideas and strategies owners come up with.

So, let me end with this...you guys come up with whatever you think you might want to do and I'll come back from the commish persepctive for implementation and enforcement.

514

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Thu, Jul 08, 2010, 19:31

re: 512 not really a loophole.

Per our rules, we can change the rules for the p-draft before the season or before the p-draft. It would all depend on what the rule was to determine when that rule would go into effect.

Also as far as enforceability goes, it would be much easier to enforce the suggestions to ban prospects from being picked up if that prospect was not on a MLB roster. But who's to say people just don't pick them up a day earlier? A week earlier? But what if they are being called up in say 2 days to be a starting P? I mean it's really tough at times to limit.

515

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Fri, Jul 09, 2010, 10:44

Austin Jackson has hit the threshold and is called up and is no longer prospect eligible. Surprised he wasn't renounced.

516

beastiemiked
ID: 23127320
Fri, Jul 09, 2010, 12:52

Ref, I was saying we could allow pickups of any minor league player from the week of the prospect lottery to the prospect draft. If that player doesn't get called up he's free to be drafted as a prospect by another team. As an example under my proposed rule, if Hudson doesn't get called up this week, he'd be eligible to be drafted by any team.

517

beastiemiked
ID: 23127320
Fri, Jul 09, 2010, 12:59

Personally, I've never been a big fan of the whole prospect idea. RFS suggested it to me in our first season and we had a long talk about it. Even though I was against it, I presented it to the league. I voted against it and it was passed 11-9. Since then, I've still nto been a big fan, but the league seems to really like it, so I think it's good in that aspect. It's also another source of improvign your team now or in the future via trading. I love the openess to this league and all the ideas and strategies owners come up with.

This league would be worse without it. I was initially against it but I've came around to it. How the else would we determine who gets the #1 prospects?

518

darkside
Achiever
ID: 3590317
Fri, Jul 09, 2010, 13:09

I still think that if prospects are the only reason we stick with CBS that the costs outweigh the benefits.

I've been screwed by the absurd lockout time way more times than a prospect has helped me on my team (trading is where I've found prospects have the most value).

519

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Fri, Jul 09, 2010, 13:14

I completely agree with darkside. The lockout times screws me over a half-dozen times a year, it seems.

520

Great One
ID: 3265018
Fri, Jul 09, 2010, 13:38

We have more prospects in the Poli league and it seems to go alright on Yahoo. People just keep an eye out for each others players. And there are only a limited # of guys in the Yahoo system anyway that are on someone's prospect list.

521

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Fri, Jul 09, 2010, 14:05

517: That's kind of where I am on this.
519: I hate the lock time as well as the lineup page. There are a few really nice things about CBS--but those two irritate me to no end.

516: I didn't understand your suggestion. So if anyone picks up a prospect and they are not called-up, they'd be eligible for the prospect draft? Interesting. I'm even wondering if that might be extended to ANY minor leaguer not called up by the time of the p-draft? That might stop people from even drafting them in our S-draft. The reason I say that is, what if someone picks up a guy a day earlier? People will still gripe that it's screwing the p-draft and they might be right.

522

beastiemiked
ID: 23127320
Fri, Jul 09, 2010, 14:26

I don't think it'd be fair to extend further. It kinda screws over teams rebuilding that feel that they can keep 1-2 guys that will most likely only be September callups.

523

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Fri, Jul 09, 2010, 15:11

*cough* ESPN.

524

Species
ID: 5959722
Fri, Jul 09, 2010, 15:26

Great discussion....and on my favorite subject.

The ONLY real problem in this whole scenario would be if someone maliciously tried to f**k with the draft by picking up draft-eligible prospects solely for the purpose of "blocking" them from being drafted in the Pdraft -- i.e. picking up a prospect at some point before the draft, only to drop them soon thereafter. If someone did that, they'd better have a pretty damned good explanation or we'd toss them from the league.

I agree with Ref - you can't effectively create rules against it without killing other legitimate strategies like R9's. IMO there is nothing wrong with him snatching Kimbrel - I nearly did so myself 3 weeks ago. You never know what will happen -- people thought I was probably nuts drafting Starlin Castro, but 5-6 weeks later he was called up and I made a trade that could be huge after the ASB.

I agree it's frustrating to see some top prospects snatched up.....I'll forever be bent at Twarpy for picking up Verlander days before the Pdraft....but he was rumored to be called up - very much like Daniel Hudson - so I didn't have a legit gripe.

525

judy
ID: 9729212
Fri, Jul 09, 2010, 16:30

yeah i was too late on Hudson --saw no salary and thought he was a prospect and did not
ask/investigate further -- then Peavy goes down...

526

judy
ID: 9729212
Fri, Jul 09, 2010, 19:32

PHEW -- that was tooclose

Lee to Rangers instead of Yankees...

527

judy
ID: 9729212
Fri, Jul 09, 2010, 19:49

wow Darkside -

how many minutes after the Lee announcement did you pick up Davis?

I went to dinner as the Yankee deal fell through, came back to find he was traded to rangers. Tried to get
Davis...

Nice work!

529

Judy
ID: 54203110
Fri, Jul 09, 2010, 22:17

SWEET--
Ryan walk off HR in 10th
Ninth inning: Dobbs 3R HR, ph 2R HR by Ransom

Maybe this will be the jump start we need!

530

Judy
ID: 54203110
Fri, Jul 09, 2010, 22:31

Dusty shoulda taken Leake out after the 8th inning instead of
letting him try for the CG. You could see he was getting tired.

Oh well, the Phils need the W more than I do...

531

beastiemiked
ID: 23127320
Fri, Jul 09, 2010, 23:04

God dang it. Wish they would've held out on the Lee deal until after our prospect draft. Figured there was a decent chance Pineda would get called up(it appears he isn't). I guess there's probably a good chance Pineda would've been gone before it got to me anyway. Guess I'll hang onto him unless some rebuilding team really wants him :)

532

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Fri, Jul 09, 2010, 23:43

530: What? Dusty take out a pitcher? Now that's funny. I watched the last few innings of the game. Leake had nothing in the 9th. Then Cordero comes in and get sthe first out on a deep fly then walks then give sup the oppo then walked on 4 straight before getting the final out.

533

R9
ID: 2854239
Sat, Jul 10, 2010, 00:16

Maaaaaybe. ;)

534

beastiemiked
ID: 23127320
Sat, Jul 10, 2010, 00:34

Hopefully I don't regret that trade. Guess if I just look at it from the perspective that I never had Pineda it'll be a good trade :) Good luck with him R9. Hope he turns out to be really good for you in 2-3 years. Any sooner and I'll be pissed that I made the deal.

535

R9
ID: 2854239
Sat, Jul 10, 2010, 01:14

Yeah, not a bad return considering 3 hours later its like you just added Ervin for free. :p

I was close to picking him up, wasn't sure if he'd make it to the prospect draft. If I'd been near a computer this afternoon after the Lee trade I definitely would've grabbed him. Sucks to pay for what was free just hours ago, but I guess he was no longer free once the Lee deal happened.

536

R9
ID: 2854239
Sat, Jul 10, 2010, 01:17

532: The Reds being where they are is pretty amazing when you consider how bad Dusty really is. They need to be 4-5 games better then everyone else to make up for all his mistakes.

Leake is likely to have nothing left in the tank come playoff time at this rate...

537

Judy
ID: 54203110
Sat, Jul 10, 2010, 07:51

Did you get the fact that Leake and Strasberg played on the
same LL team in SoCal?

They got a manage him better -- he was really super through
8.

538

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Sat, Jul 10, 2010, 11:05

Yeah what I'm still scratching me head about was bmd doing what he was harping against? Or am I misunderstanding what upset him to suggest that new rule change afterall? I mean it's legal and I have no beef at all about it. Just seems odd to me.

539

beastiemiked
ID: 31152921
Sat, Jul 10, 2010, 13:54

I'm against teams picking up prospects after they get their
draft spot(getting a top pick and picking up a prospect so
others behind you have less options). Now if I wouldve
traded for the #1 prospect pick
then picked up pineda it would be similar.

540

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Sat, Jul 10, 2010, 21:10

I still don't get it. What if I thought Pineda was a top pick. Obviously I don't have a top pick and not even in lottery. What if I pick him up to make sure I get him? I mean that's what others have basically done over the course of our league here and there. What you did was effectively take Pineda out of the Prospect Draft. I thought that was what your suggestion was trying to prevent?

541

darkside
Achiever
ID: 3590317
Sat, Jul 10, 2010, 21:28

Thanks, Judy. As soon as I saw the deal I checked to see if Davis was a FA and he was. Figured it was worth a shot.

542

mjd
Leader
ID: 501381415
Sat, Jul 10, 2010, 22:14

Either way, there is still one less player in the prospect player pool
to choose from.

543

blue hen
ID: 266191021
Sat, Jul 10, 2010, 22:19

Yeah, and one less prospect is bad for this league. I kinda dig this prospect thing.

I got the Alert around 2:30 ET, and Davis was available at that point, but I didn't feel like it was worth dropping Nix, Freese, or any of the others to get him. The guy has failed quite a few times in the majors and I think he's going to run out of chances soon.

544

beastiemiked
ID: 10432914
Sat, Jul 10, 2010, 23:00

I explained my stance many times. Check post 482 or 483. If you can't see how this is different then I don't know how to better explain it.

Pineda was 99.9% going to be picked up by another manager after Lee got traded. I could've sat on my ass and watched or made a perfectly legal pickup.

I'm still 100% behind the rule change(freezing minor leaguers between the lottery and the prospect draft). When we had our 1st prospect draft there were a lot of people against it but they still participated in it despite not agreeing with. Just because I believe a rule change should be made doesn't mean I'm not going to actively try to make my team better.

545

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Sun, Jul 11, 2010, 09:58

bmd, my point is that you just did exactly what you're arguing against. If Pineda had to be immediately picked up because he might be called up to play that week, then why change the rule at all?

I don't think draft position makes any difference. Twarpy told me before that he picked up a guy because he knew he would never make it to him in the pdraft. Now I'm not sure when that pick-up was or even who it was at this point--but if we were to make some kind of change--that's what I'd like to stop.

I think the most intriguing possibility for me was where you could draft someone who has never been called up--even if he was on someone's roster. That could help stop people from stashing minor leaguers or pre-empting hte pdraft. Need to think about it some more though because rebuilding teams or September callups could have reason to have them. But if you think about it, there really isn't a competitive reason for said player to be on a team at the ASB. A lot to think about since I'd never considered this possibility.

546

mjd
Leader
ID: 501381415
Sun, Jul 11, 2010, 12:57

I think the most intriguing possibility for me was where you
could draft someone who has never been called up--even if he was
on someone's roster. That could help stop people from stashing
minor leaguers or pre-empting hte pdraft.

This would be a viable solution.

bmd (and others) are just playing within the rules as they currently
stand and I'm fine with that. But implimenting the above or one of
the other suggestions given would resolve this issue.

547

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Sun, Jul 11, 2010, 16:37

If anyone wants my prospect pick and has something that will help me now, let me know.

548

GoatLocker
Leader
ID: 060151121
Sun, Jul 11, 2010, 18:07

Would also help if you set up the thread for today so those of us that don't have access can get the backdoor link for the Prospect draft.

Or, might be able to make my prospect pick available for the right offer.
Still looking for steals.

549

Judy
ID: 54203110
Sun, Jul 11, 2010, 22:48

Halladay pitched a no decision 9 inn complete game...
Do CBS or Yahoo honor the CG stat?

550

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Mon, Jul 12, 2010, 00:37

Prospect Draft Thread

PDraft Discussion

Draft Opems at Noon EDT.

551

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Mon, Jul 12, 2010, 10:09

As far as a rules change goes, we can make a rule now or even before next season starts (preferably before keepers are due). The sugestions being discussed really have no bearing on anything we do until then anyhow.

552

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Mon, Jul 12, 2010, 12:07

The more I research for the PDraft, the more I like the base idea from bmd. However, I like it to go a step further as I suggested before since someone can't simply pick up a guy a day earlier and still short-circuit the rule.

So the suggestion I think I could comfortably vote for beginning next season would be that in addition to our current rules, any player who is on a current roster (other than your own) who has never played in a MLB game by the date of the prospect draft is eligible to be drafted.

Why the rule would help: Would help keep the integrity of the pdraft by preventing managers from hoarding prospects on their team who have been unable to help them in any fashion this season.

553

R9
ID: 2854239
Mon, Jul 12, 2010, 12:16

Well... I would hope we'd grandfather that in for existing players. I probably wouldn't have traded for Pineda if there was a chance I'd lose him for nothing next year.

There will still be loopholes for guys who get a cup of coffee in September, being called up from AA or something, only to spend the whole next year back at AAA. Kimbrel is a guy who had MLB service time when I picked him up...

This also hampers rebuilding teams in a way I don't like too much. There is only room for 60 total prospects, and quite often that number is down to 40ish from callups and such. There are definitely more then 40 guys worthy of being in a rebuilding team's plans, and with our p-draft limitations (limited to 3) that reduces their ability to target young guys who can help.

My recommendation, if we really wanted to limit these kind of pickups, would be to expand prospect rosters more, to 5 or more.

554

R9
ID: 2854239
Mon, Jul 12, 2010, 12:18

That, or remove the requirement to be back down to 3 by the prospect draft.

555

Toral
ID: 4155487
Mon, Jul 12, 2010, 12:27

I could agree with Ref's idea unless there is some unintended consequence I haven't though of.

556

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Mon, Jul 12, 2010, 15:26

553: It's a year from now so no grandfathering would be applicable.

555: I racked my brain trying to figure out that same thing Toral. I am opposed to circumventing the Pdraft, but understand well how thin our FA wire is and how we need all eligible players to be accessible to us as possible.

554: That would mean we could go over 60 prospects. Something that could hurt our FA wire. We are so thin already. That "thinness" really helps the trading in our league and can bolster the lower teams for next season and hurt good teams this season in the future (see Pete and R9 for example). Still there still has to be players we can pickup for hotstreaks/injuries and one day/temp pick-ups at a moments notice (as long as it's before the CBS BS freeze).

557

Toral
ID: 4155487
Mon, Jul 12, 2010, 15:37

554: Agreer with Ref. 60 prospects sounds more like dynasty league.

A badly organized dynasty league when you only have 9 keepers on the main team.

558

Great One
ID: 3265018
Mon, Jul 12, 2010, 16:00

I can't imagine a scenario where I have a guy on my team cause I feel he's gonna be called up and then someone can just pick him in the prospect draft and take him away from me.

559

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Mon, Jul 12, 2010, 16:16

I agree.

The penalty for holding a guy who isn't currently playing MLB is the loss of a very valuable roster spot. This seems a high enough cost to me.

560

R9
ID: 2854239
Mon, Jul 12, 2010, 16:24

556:

Not true. I'll be keeping Pineda. If he hasn't had a start before next year's prospect draft, someone could then draft him. If I knew this was a risk, I may not have made the trade I did.

I'm for trying to keep prospects to prospect rosters, but this rule punishes astute managers who do their homework.

561

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Mon, Jul 12, 2010, 17:15

557: Hey I wanted more keepers but the league didn't. ;)

562

Toral
ID: 4155487
Mon, Jul 12, 2010, 17:23

Ref...it looks like you lose this one. But I hope you will remember that I stood with you, wholeheatedly against the anti-Ref faction in the league.

In the future, just remember that I am what Margaret Thatcher called "one of us".

Toral

563

beastiemiked
ID: 31152921
Mon, Jul 12, 2010, 18:33

Being able to draft other peoples players would handicap
rebuilding teams. I'd rather stick with our current rules then
change them and hurt the rebuilding teams.

We could set a cutoff date(say a month before the AS break)
where if a guy wasn't on a managers roster and hasn't
accumulated major league stats he would be available to be
drafted. That would give rebuilding teams a chance to keep
their prospects they picked up before then and would also
make more prospects available for the prospect draft.

564

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Mon, Jul 12, 2010, 18:57

562: Now that's pretty funny.

Actually the basis was bmd's idea. I just thought about it and figured by taking it a step farther, it would prevent anyone from circumventing our PDraft instead os soem arbitrary day that could still piss someone off by grabbing a guy right before the deadline. As long as it works from a commish standpoint, I'm down with whatever the league wants to do.

565

darkside
Achiever
ID: 3590317
Mon, Jul 12, 2010, 20:24

RE: 552 and 555 - here's an unintended consequence. I have Travis Wood--who took a perfect game into the 9th his last time out--and PD was willing to draft him in the third slot.

I'd been keeping an eye on him since Spring Training when Leake beat him out. Picked him up as soon as I saw he was getting the call and have started him for all 3 of his starts. I'm not high on my chances of winning this season, but I'm not out of it. I needed starting pitching after the Pujols trade and he fit the profile of a pitcher I want on my team. No way, no how should he ever be allowed to be taken off my team. So, if I understand it correctly, I'm very opposed to that idea.

I'm open to most anything, including dropping prospects altogether, but there's no way players should be fair game even if they're on someone else's roster.

566

Toral
ID: 4155487
Mon, Jul 12, 2010, 20:28

darkside: Wood has pitched innings in MLB so he would not be eligible to be drafted under Ref's great idea.

Only players with no appearnaces in MLB would be eligible to be prospect=drafted under the idea of Ref.

567

darkside
Achiever
ID: 3590317
Mon, Jul 12, 2010, 20:36

That is better, but I still have reservations, but that's mainly cause I'm willing to sit on someone if I think they could help soon. Look at what Species did with Alex Gordon?

568

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Mon, Jul 12, 2010, 20:42

565: Yeah as Toral said in 566 this wouldn't apply to all prospects--just to players who never got into a MLB game. In that way, a manager wasn't picking him up to actually help his team, but more speculative or as a way to make sure they got him and (even unintentionally) circumventing the draft.

I am not pushing hard for this idea at all. It's simply a way to help prevent SOME of the issues that have come up in our current system. If a player even had a September call-up the previous season, a prospect-eligible could still be taken prior to the Sunday freeze before the pdraft.

569

Species
ID: 576231311
Tue, Jul 13, 2010, 12:24

Good trading of ideas, all.

- I am very open to some kind of cutoff date for picking up players who are prospect eligible
- I am cool with limiting things to 60 prospects
- I think the building consensus is that there is NO WAY a team should be able to pluck prospect-eligible players off of team rosters. I strongly agree.
- The one sucky thing that we need to be wary of is a call up during the blackout period. If a stud prospect gets called up within the one month (whatever it ends up being) blackout, what would our rules be in that case? Does that player remain blacked out? What is the "official" source for him being called up so that he would then be eligible to be picked up?

I do NOT want to totally restrict the stashing of prospects for those teams willing to burn the valuable roster spot. I held onto Prince Fielder for two seasons! I drafted Hanley Ramirez when he was in AA and traded him in a package for Victor before he ever got a MLB at bat! It's a very viable, valuable strategy that I don't want to see gone.

570

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Wed, Jul 14, 2010, 12:59

For those of you who remember:
My feline buddy, Ghostie, had major liver surgery in March. He was not expected to
survive a week. Well, he lasted 3+ months, but lost his battle today. He was a great
companion for 15 years and I will miss him.

571

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Wed, Jul 14, 2010, 13:42

:(

sorry to hear that, Judy.

572

Species
ID: 576231311
Thu, Jul 15, 2010, 13:01

Sorry about Ghostie, judy. 15 years together is a long time.

Okay, I've made my move to counter bh's Santana pickup....I have some offense now! Let's hope I can keep my pitching up and AGonz can get on one of those big hot streaks!

PS - Chipper Jones is now available if anyone needs a 3b

573

Bh
ID: 426111516
Thu, Jul 15, 2010, 17:11

Nice trade. On both sides really, although I prefer the
Species side. A young established quality starting pitcher
and a mostly decent closer is decent haul for a star first
baseman. Especially if Cain can recapture some of his
magic.

574

Bh
ID: 426111516
Thu, Jul 15, 2010, 17:12

Stupid iPhone - doesn't wrap right.

575

judy
ID: 5321213
Thu, Jul 15, 2010, 23:36

Agree - nice trade -- obviously hitting for pitching...

576

Great One
ID: 3265018
Fri, Jul 16, 2010, 09:39

We've got a litter of orange kittens here near Princeton that we don't know what to do with. The shelter says they don't have room.

You want a few Judy?!

577

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Fri, Jul 16, 2010, 10:12

Do I sense a trade in the works?

578

judy
ID: 597401015
Fri, Jul 16, 2010, 10:52

Minor and the Minorettes??
A comment on your team, maybe? (Who were you before?)

Thanks GO, but I am gonna wait a little bit before I go get another one (1)...and I do
have an orange guy already...
It is a bad time for shelters as people are abandoning their pets in this economy.
Keep me in mind though for later on -- say mid august (email). Are they yours?

579

Great One
ID: 3265018
Fri, Jul 16, 2010, 10:58

Nope, they are just outside our office at work.

580

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Sat, Jul 17, 2010, 01:17

572: I remember that prospect Hill was in that dela with jaydog and he has been transferred in the rules. I don't remember any othe rpcks involved. Usually I do all this as soon as I see the trades, but have been behind lately.

581

Species
Dude
ID: 07724916
Sat, Jul 17, 2010, 02:14

Aaron Hicks actually.

No picks involved.

582

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Sat, Jul 17, 2010, 11:32

Jaydog you need to drop a player. Roster freeze is 1pm ET.

583

Species
Dude
ID: 07724916
Sat, Jul 17, 2010, 12:17

What happens if he misses this notice?

If "we" (i.e. commishes/league) had to choose for him, drop Chris Ray. With his trade to SF there's far less of a chance he has any closer potential right now.

584

R9
ID: 2854239
Sun, Jul 18, 2010, 02:50

578, thats me. :) Used to be Utley's Elderly Crew. Not so elderly anymore, and a rebuilding team with a guy named Minor is just too good.

585

blue hen
ID: 266191021
Sun, Jul 18, 2010, 22:14

I am looking to add an impact bat or two, or maybe a quality closer. Let me know what you're thinking.

586

Judy
ID: 54203110
Sun, Jul 18, 2010, 22:29

BH -- you can certainly wish...

587

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Mon, Jul 19, 2010, 11:13

We will have at least two spots open for G24 football. Let me know if you know someone who might be interested.

588

Bh
ID: 18625520
Tue, Jul 20, 2010, 00:12

Thanks for the tip, Judy. There's one.

trade notification

Perm dude gets:
Octavio Dotel
Daric Barton

Blue hen gets:
Paul Konerko

No picks

589

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Tue, Jul 20, 2010, 00:16

confirmed

590

Judy
ID: 54203110
Tue, Jul 20, 2010, 12:42

Bh
I thought you WANTED a closer...Dotel???

591

Great One
ID: 38649207
Tue, Jul 20, 2010, 13:53

He traded him while he was still a closer.

592

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Tue, Jul 20, 2010, 15:23

Now he *really* wants a closer.

593

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Tue, Jul 20, 2010, 15:34

Well he dumped a high era and whip for a bat. That will gian him more points than saves ever would. He's 2nd in saves now and with me having four closers he's never going to catch me anyhow. He gets an extra roster spot too. BH made out really well in this deal.

594

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Tue, Jul 20, 2010, 15:38

Honestly, this is the exact kind of deal you make in this spot. Barton leads the AL in walks and isn't THAT far from being a keeper in this league. And he's only 24. Dotel is still the closer (and honestly, has a pretty decent track record and could close elsewhere). Konerko was not kept last season although with good numbers, you might keep him for year or two more. Right now, he's #9 for me, I think.

595

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Tue, Jul 20, 2010, 15:39

.. and yes, I'd still love to have another closer, so I don't lose too much ground.

596

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Tue, Jul 20, 2010, 15:57

Yeah not too often you can better your team as a top team and pick up a keeper at the same time w/o even losing picks. Great job bh! PD obviously feels that these two players will be better long term.

597

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Tue, Jul 20, 2010, 16:01

Yeah, and particularly with Wood out, I'm not far from picking up some points in saves even at the bottom end.

598

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Tue, Jul 20, 2010, 16:05

Saves is the hardest stat to get in this league.

599

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Tue, Jul 20, 2010, 16:15

PD cna't hurt his era any worse either. Though he will have to pick up a 1b off FA wire until Morneau gets off the DL. So He'll have to drop two players for this deal.

600

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Tue, Jul 20, 2010, 17:02

Barton looks like he's playing now. I'll probably decide on who to drop this evening and just go ahead and drop. There are a couple of SP on the team which I'll probably shed one of tonight.

Honestly, I'm really just playing to (1) get out of the bottom and (2) accumulate some younger talent upon which to build.

601

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Tue, Jul 20, 2010, 17:17

I think this deal accomplishes both of those goals for you, assuming Dotel can rack up a few saves. No need to get another first baseman - Barton bats second and will probably lead the AL in walks.

602

Great One
ID: 47515621
Tue, Jul 20, 2010, 19:11

But does Barton do anything except walk? He's practically Dave Magadan.

603

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Tue, Jul 20, 2010, 19:15

Sometime he trots.

604

judy
ID: 5321213
Tue, Jul 20, 2010, 19:24

Did I ever mention how I HATE the early lock out?

Came up a bit late (at 7:03) to check rosters and found out that Q isn't playing tonight. Wish I
had known earlier (I had checked around 5:30). He's got a 10:10 game and I could have put
Ichiro in (they play each other) for some stats of some kind!

If CBS can do it for football, why won't they do it for baseball. It does not make sense! They list
the start times so they clearly have a DB for it.

UGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHH!

605

judy
ID: 5321213
Tue, Jul 20, 2010, 19:25

RE #593 I might catch him in Saves now...I am only 9 behind...

606

darkside
Achiever
ID: 3590317
Tue, Jul 20, 2010, 21:04

Not trying to be a jerk, but this is not 'Nam--there are rules.

What gives with starting Choo, blue hen? I know why, but I don't know that it was reasonable for you to drop Nix and pick up Hanrahan without someone not on the DL to fill the DH slot. He'll be back Friday, but that's 5 days of breaking the rules in a pre-meditated fashion.

I'm not really down with that, even if you're obviously trying to win.

607

Judy
ID: 54203110
Tue, Jul 20, 2010, 21:25

Bh -- you are illegal today with Choo .

Please see REF post #377.

It is very clear what the rules are.

608

blue hen
ID: 266191021
Tue, Jul 20, 2010, 21:41

First - I will accept whatever action is deemed appropriate by the league, whether it's dropping Hanrahan whatever.

However, to me, the "don't start an injured player" is specifically designed to stop people from tanking. In this case, it's obvious that's not the purpose, but post 377 is pretty clear on the rules. I dropped Nix because Cabrera is back and I also have a slot to fill with the trade I just made (which would have been Hanrahan anyway).

If it's appropriate, I can pick someone up as soon as the trade goes through and start him for Wednesday. Or whatever else the league deems is appropriate.

609

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Tue, Jul 20, 2010, 21:54

I will investigate, but yeah, he can't do it. You can't put a DL player in your active lineup or leave one there. That is the same reason why PD is required to get a 1B because he won't have an active 1B once Konerko is gone. Not that he's trying to tank, but because there is strategy involved. Otherwise good teams could simply not pickup extra catchers when one gets injured, etc.

610

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Tue, Jul 20, 2010, 23:05

bh's had an illegal lineup the past two games. We have the authority to bench every player for every day his lineup was illegal. One thing is for sure that Hanharan will be removed from his team retroactively and any and all stats from the last two days obviously will go away. His lineup will still be illegal because he won't have 9 active players. It's obvious to me that this was an intentional act of putting a DL player in his active lineup to try and get an extra pitcher. Since my team is in 3rd place, I don't want to do anything that might appear to be self-serving so I will ask the league for input on any other actions or penalties.

611

blue hen
ID: 266191021
Tue, Jul 20, 2010, 23:15

While we wait for input, can you tell me when the trade will go through? Am I in danger of being illegal tomorrow as well?

612

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Tue, Jul 20, 2010, 23:20

Your trade will go through at rollover tonight since it was accepted yesterday.

613

mjd
Leader
ID: 501381415
Tue, Jul 20, 2010, 23:33

This blantant behavior should be punished hard to discourage
future BS

614

mjd
Leader
ID: 501381415
Tue, Jul 20, 2010, 23:35

Real Hard.

Draft pick(s) or points

615

beastiemiked
ID: 23127320
Tue, Jul 20, 2010, 23:38

Where is that in the rules? That your lineup will be considered illegal if you intentionally put a player on the dl in an active slot. Bh is obviously trying to field a competitive team. It just so happens that he doesn't have an a healthy player in the DH slot. The rule was designed for tanking. Penalizing bh would be a terrible decision.

"Otherwise good teams could simply not pickup extra catchers when one gets injured, etc."

Nobody is self destructive enough to do this and it would only be helpful in the slimmest of situations(on the last day of the season where somebody doesn't want their OBP to drop).

If he knew there was even a small chance he'd be illegal he would've fielded a "active" lineup. Besides, if you must get technical, Choo is eligible to come off the DL. Are we going to start making teams that start guys that are supposed to come off the DL illegal if for some reason that guy doesn't come off the DL.

616

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Tue, Jul 20, 2010, 23:57

But isn't the fact that the action hurts his team a form of punishment?

I thought the rule was meant to prevent tanking and to encourage active management. It doesn't appear that BH is guilty of either of those things.

As bmd points out, determining whether someone is breaking this rule is not easy to do, so we should be very flexible in how it is applied.

617

mjd
Leader
ID: 501381415
Wed, Jul 21, 2010, 00:01

This was premeditated and obviously thought out.

I think it should be harshly discouraged.

618

judy
ID: 5321213
Wed, Jul 21, 2010, 00:04

If you have players on the DL (and bh has 3 hitters on the DL), you gotta scour the WW and find a body to
fill in the spot. He needs to make a decision to drop a P to field a legal lineup. Otherwise it is like having
an extra player.

It's plain and simple.

I do not "get" that the rule was designed for "tanking". You are either legal or illegal regardless of motive.

That being said there are 2 teams with DL pitchers in the "active" group -- however, they both have little
baseballs indicating they will be starting this week.

Should P coming off the DL be handled differently than B? In my mind YES, esp when CBS puts the little
baseball there to indicate a scheduled start although the DL notation is still there. P are different since
they do not play every day.

Sometimes there is a lag at CBS and if they continue to list DL but the guy actually plays, that
would be OK, but you are taking a chance there.

619

beastiemiked
ID: 23127320
Wed, Jul 21, 2010, 00:16

"I do not "get" that the rule was designed for "tanking". You are either legal or illegal regardless of motive."

That's what it was designed for when it was put into place for this league. It was to stop teams that aren't competing from intentionally putting DL players in their starting lineup. It's so teams don't just "tank" to get better draft choices.

Maybe bh is pulling a fast one and figures Species has this sucker wrapped up. Personally, I think he figured Hanrhan might not stick around on the waiver wire and getting 2 days from a crappy DH slot is not worth much. It's this fine tuning that makes fantasy baseball fun.

620

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Wed, Jul 21, 2010, 00:31

The rule is actually so that no one puts inactive players in their lineup. Many managers have gotten notices that they need to pickup a player to replace a DL player. If there is a way to manipulate your roster so you can have your team full, then fine, if not--you have to pick up one of the fa wire. Now if a player is day to day, etc. then that's fine. If he's been called up or brought off the DL that day, then fine. I had to cut Cs this season a few times because I didn't have enough space to hold more than one. I'd have loved to simply kept the DL guy there but that is against the rules. Injuries can force you to make tough decisions. The problem here is that bh had a healthy team and dumped a guy to get more Ps in. Choo is not coming off the DL until Friday.

621

Species
Dude
ID: 07724916
Wed, Jul 21, 2010, 00:58

IMO, some people are making a mountain out of a molehill here. Quoting the rules:

"Activity will be monitored. Every team and circumstance is different. Not every team will want to change their lineup every day or be able to respond to every trade or answer emails immediately. Not every manager will make as many transactions (add/drops or trades) as others. Albeit, if we notice some time of inactivity or it is brought to our attention, we will address it. Please understand that we are trying to work with you to resolve the issue. You are expected to respond to all trades/emails in a timely manner whenever possible. You are also expected to keep healthy and competitive players who are playing in your active lineup. Activity on our threads in the Rotoguru boards and on our league site are encouraged and required at times for league business, including rules discussions, drafts, etc.

Should unforeseen scenarios arise, the commissioners will use their best judgment to settle any matters in the best interest of the league."

Which part of this inactivity rule is he breaking?

Context is always important. bh is not out of this and would be insane to just give up --- why on earth would he even make this trade if he wasn't trying to compete?

HE is choosing that the best thing for HIS team is to not drop a player and eat zeros for 3 or 4 days until Choo is supposed to come back. Not necessarily the strategy I would choose, but it's of value to him.

When I was rebuilding years ago, much of my bench was filled with prospects. When I had a player go on the DL I appropriately was forced to replace them......causing me to drop valuable prospects --- I lost rights to Matt Kemp because of this. Not keeping your lineup legal in order to horde prospects is a definite break of the rules. Not keeping your lineup legal to have crappy stats and tank is a break of the rules. I'm not sure eating zeros for 3 days when you are in 2nd place and obviously not taking is a break of the rules.

622

R9
ID: 2854239
Wed, Jul 21, 2010, 01:18

Uh, yeah, I'm gonna have to ditto was Species said.

The reason this rule exists was because we had some managers that had DL'd players sitting on their active roster for days on end. Actually, we had some managers who were MIA for weeks/months on end, and the "DL'd players still playing" was a consequence of that. In an effort to make those managers either shape up or ship out, we implemented this rule. The end result was some manager turnover that saw less active managers replaced by newcomers who were known to be very active. It was ultimately a league decision that we wanted to have a very active league, and this rule was one of the ways we went about it.

It was also implemented to stop bottom teams from completley tanking, mostly because its unethical but also because it could affect the races at the top.

So, which of these two reasons is hen violating?

It seems to me that he hasn't violated the spirit of the rule, so punishing him here seems kinda wack.
If going forward we want to discourage this kind of thing, we should spell out clearly in the rules what the consequences would be.

623

mjd
Leader
ID: 501381415
Wed, Jul 21, 2010, 01:41

I'll agree with the last 2 sentences:

Let him eat the donuts and move to discourage in the future by
appropriate consequence as voted on by the league.

624

Toral
ID: 526301920
Wed, Jul 21, 2010, 03:04

Agree with R9 and Species. There ain't no rule, not yet, anyway. All we can do to bluehen is take him off our Christmas card list. Which ain't gonna bother him much.

625

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Wed, Jul 21, 2010, 10:41

Hanrahan was taken off my roster and put on waivers, presumably by Ref.

I'd like to challenge that move, and put it up to a vote, either of entire league or of the commishes. In the meantime, I picked up Jayson Nix to fill the slot. He'll be locked in at 12:35 today when the first game starts. Not sure if we can get this resolved by that time.

626

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Wed, Jul 21, 2010, 10:54

Actually guys, there is a rule. You must keep active players in your line-up at all times. Now this doesn't mean if a guy has an off-day you have to replace him or if he's DTD, etc. But if a guy goe son the DL or on leave or sent down to the minors, you can't use him in your active lineup. Now there is some leeway for Pitchers in your starting lineup (but you still must have 6 active Ps on your team) like trying to stay under IP limits or trying to skip a matchup, etc. For that reason (and also the way that CBS changed the wildcard salaries which we use for our prospects a couple seasons ago) are the reasons I changed it so managers didn't automatically get a 0 for all points scored that day.

This is not something new. I've had to deal with this issue and other illegal lineups probably 20-25 times this season and countless times over the years. Every day I check the illegal lineups in the alert notice. I can usually fix those on my own. It's usually an interface mistake like having two DHs and no OF etc. R9 was one of the guys who made a more egredious mistake earlier this season and I alerted him and went in and negated his advantage. Every so often I will go through the lineups and make sure there are no inactive players in active lineups. I'll send an email to those managers in question and see if they need to pick-up a player off the FA wire to legalize their lineup. It has been taken care of promptly. We have a great group here.

As for bh, I've already negated his advantage. He is still illegal, but has an open roster spot he may fill. He's obviously not tanking and trying to win, so not filling that roster spot isn't an advantage. The problem here for some is that he did this intentionaly to try and skirt the minimum active hitter requirement. I'm getting some notes about it (which alerted me to the situation) and I've asked all of them to talk to the league about it.

If the rules need to be defined even more, that is fine, but this is how we have always administered this situation. Perhaps Species and R9 remember when we made StL Cards pick up a C when his C went on the DL a few seasons ago? Someone told me about it (maybe it wasn't one of you) and I had to talk to him. Instead of taking a 0 at a horrible position, he had to drop someone to pick up an active catcher. AA had to do the same a couple weeks ago for a 2b.

If we didn't have this rule, we could have guys kep minors or DL players in thier active lineup instead of filling it with bad FAplayers and load up on Ps toward the end of the season to make up grouond on Ws or Ks etc.

627

Toral
ID: 526301920
Wed, Jul 21, 2010, 11:04

The 'rule' does need to be clarified. One thing I would recommend is distinguishing in terminology between the written rules and 'rules' like this one, which are not in the written rules. Such a 'rule' could be called a directive, an official interpretation, or whatever. The practical reason is that someone uncertain about what things are and are not required will consult the written rules for guidance, and needs to know if there is more than that to it. Needs to know that there are additional directives or official interpretations that need to be taken into account.

For example, when Luke Scott went on DL, I had no backup 1B. The next day was a Monday with many open dates, and I would have had holes in the lineup anyway, and the person I wanted to drop was playing. So I checked the rules and reassured myself (I thought) that I could wait till Tuesday, when there was a full slate of games, to pick up a backup 1B. Which I did.

Anyway, if there are to be punishments associated with this interpretation, it would be helpful to have more specifics about our duties.

628

Great One
ID: 38649207
Wed, Jul 21, 2010, 11:19

Yeah, I have dropped some guys I wouldn't have dropped to fill in positions because of injury. I don't really see it being a necessary rule though unless a team is deemed to be tanking. Does CBS require it?

Like I know in Yahoo sometimes I'll only have 4 pitchers on my whole team cause I'm trying to load up on hitters or whatever. Then I'll pick up a bunch of SP and make those innings back up. Just a different strategy of utilizing my roster.

629

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Wed, Jul 21, 2010, 11:22

If we do have a rule that says contending teams must fill all roster slots at all times, then I'd like to change that rule, and would trust the league to make the right decision.

At the moment, I feel that Joel Hanrahan was wrongly removed from my team, and would like that to be put up to a vote TODAY so the mess doesn't get further compounded. Anybody opposed to that?

630

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Wed, Jul 21, 2010, 11:32

625: Wow! What a switch in your tone from 608. Thing is that we've talked about this before via IM and you know the intent and spirit of the rule. In this league there is no vote to overturn the commish's ruling like there is in G24 football. If we'd like to add that rule here, I'd be glad to add it but the league chose to add a trade voting policy instead. The only question is if the league feels there should be additional penalties because of your intentional act. Obviously, if someone can present a better idea, I'm always open to that, but I've always taken away any advantage that someone has gotten from an illegal mvoe (or non-move) at the very least. The league has asked for additional penalties for more serious actions/inactions which has led to 0 stats for the day and even removal of 1st round draft picks and even one time moving a person's draft picks to the last pick of every round insted of a high picks.

627: Toral that is a good post. The people who usually alert me to illegals are the guys actively looking to trade when they stumble across this issue. Obviously no one has the time to go through every lineup every day to check for this. Fortunately with CBS we can go back and can make retroactive lineup moves.

I will be happy to make it more definititve. When you write the rules and have always enforced it a certain way, you may read something one way while someone else reads it a different way. Albeit, this is the way it has always been administered and those who didn't understand that may have never had an illegal lineup or (were made aware that they) fell into this situation.

631

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Wed, Jul 21, 2010, 12:00

From Darkside via email:

"Since I first brought it up, I'm obviously against it. I don't see anything on the rules page specifically stating this is a problem, but have seen Ref's warning in 377 in other seasons. This is not a new subject and one that, in my mind, leaves little room for discussion. Blue hen, citing post 377, basically said the same thing.

The rule is a good one and though hen wasn't breaking the spirit of it, he was breaking the letter.

I'm ok with a rule change, but definitely not in-season. In my mind, hen clearly violated a rule that was clearly stated (and he even agreed in 608). Having Hanrahan dropped is both fair and pretty light as far as I'm concerned and there is no way he should be put back on hen's team.

Also, it should be noted that I have a conflict--I wanted Hanrahan which is why I was looking at hen's team. So, I have a vested interest in his not being on hen's team. Doesn't change the fact that hen willingly broke a rule that we've all known about and lived by."

632

beastiemiked
ID: 23127320
Wed, Jul 21, 2010, 12:11

Well if that's the rule and/or how it's been administered then it definitely needs to be voted on to be changed. I'm almost positive the reason the rule was established was for teams tanking. I never thought we'd actively apply this rule to contending teams making what they deem to be a smart move.

It's kinda scary that people think there should be additional penalties. I think that has more to do with bh being outspoken than him actually starting a DL guy. The league rules are vague and I doubt any of us has ever been in a league where starting a guy on the DL was "illegal".

633

Species
ID: 576231311
Wed, Jul 21, 2010, 14:03

I am STRONGLY against any further penalties, quite simply because his keeping of Hanrahan is a LOT less egregious than someone tanking or hoarding prospects due to an incomplete starting lineup. Ref's imposed penalty of losing Hanrahan is eqivilent to the benefit bh received by skating the rule in the first place. Seems reasonable....perhaps debatable, but still reasonable

634

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Wed, Jul 21, 2010, 14:13

633: This is the penalty that has always been imposed. R9 accidently messed up his lineup earlier this season. I don't remember the exact issue, but whatever it was, the benefit he got for that issue was negated.

I have never said there should be harsher sanctions. But there are people who have emailed me that there should be because this was intentional. Heck there was a recent reminder in post 377 of this rule and bh, himself, referred to that in 608. I've told them that they needed to express their concerns to the league and because I (and Species) were in direct competition with BH that I/we would not be directly involved in further penalties that it was up to the league. Tosh is the other commish but I've not talked to him about it.

635

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Wed, Jul 21, 2010, 14:35

Pete has Beckett active on his starting roster right now. What player does he have to lose?

636

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Wed, Jul 21, 2010, 14:47

Beckett is starting this week. Why should he be inactive?

637

Great One
ID: 38649207
Wed, Jul 21, 2010, 14:51

Its already been stated that pitchers have to be looked at differently due to the nature of their only playing every 5th day. But an everyday player not playing for a week is a different story. He is missing games he would ordinarily be playing in.

638

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Wed, Jul 21, 2010, 15:04

Strike post 635. That's just frustration talking.

I'm done discussing it here. I hope someone proposes a new rule about "if he is deemed to be tanking" but that's the last I'll say on it.

639

Great One
ID: 38649207
Wed, Jul 21, 2010, 15:09

I'd be all for a "use your starting lineup however you see fit if you are in contention"... but its such a grey area too. Is that the first week of the season too? we are all in contention at that point. Who draws a line and says who is in it and who is out of it?

I asked before, - is this something CBS requires or is it a choice by our league? Not that it matters cause I don't think we'll be back with CBS next year if they don't get the lineup thing fixed.

640

judy
ID: 5321213
Wed, Jul 21, 2010, 16:12

Re 619 - I get it -- "tanking" to get a better draft slot for the following year...

641

Guru
ID: 330592710
Wed, Jul 21, 2010, 16:26

I was unaware of this rule, and if I had been, would have assumed it was to deal with tanking issues. That said, it appears that the rule has been in place for years, and enforced for years, and thus should continue to be enforced.

When penalties are not strictly spelled out, then I think the Commissioner has to be given the latitude to do what he thinks is right, given all of the situational facts and precedents.

It sound to me like Ref has approached this consistently with past practice, and while his judgment may seem harsh to some, I'm inclined to support whatever he decides.

I'd probably be in favor of amending the rule (after the season) to allow for discretion when the tactic can be argued as being in the best interest of the team in its pursuit of the highest possible finish in the current season. But that sort of change should not be instituted mid-season.

642

judy
ID: 5321213
Wed, Jul 21, 2010, 16:40

Here's where I sit.

CBS does a great job of the yellow alert -- but what is their penalty if you continue with
an illegal CBS lineup? Don't know -- never tried it. Don't plan to. Anybody know?

As I see it, bh dropped Nix and started the DL Choo so he could have a roster spot to pick up
Hanrahan. To me that is a deliberate act. It was also not a valid move. He needed to put Nix in
there, suffer the consequences (possible crappy negative stats) and then drop him when Choo
returns. Potential negative stats are worse than zeroes.

Too bad if Hanrahan is not there when Choo plays again.

The key as I see it is that the move seems to have been made to grab Hanrahan and that is the
part I do not like.

He constructed his roster tightly and it didn't work for him. From a rules quote in #621 'You are
also expected to keep healthy and competitive players who are playing in your active lineup.'

Why do you think I keep the All Star (!) Infante? Because he can fill in a lot of holes (and he is
actually doing well this year -- when he plays). You gotta plan for that and if it means you need
to sacrifice elsewhere, well that's why you are the manager. Just make a decision that is legal!

Post #377 was a pretty clear reminder -- so clear that when I read the first post about this move,
I remembered that I had read it and I went looking for it and found it easily. I had no idea that Ref
was also doing daily check ups as well.

I think he should lose his stats for the days his lineup was illegal...

643

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Wed, Jul 21, 2010, 16:59

One more point - if I am forced to lose Hanrahan, then can I get Nix's stats back for Monday and Tuesday?

644

R9
ID: 2854239
Wed, Jul 21, 2010, 17:34

I'm ok with hen losing Hanrahan. I did indeed make a similar mistake earlier this year (hard to remember the details now) and Ref and I emailed each other and got it fixed. It was accidental rather than strategic, but was the same thing by the letter of the rule.

This 'enforcement' basically removes the advantage gained by violating the rule. It does not go further, and so brings hen back to status quo.

That said, I definitely think this is something we should discuss in the off-season. This isn't really what we had in mind when we made the rule. So far its been enforced by the commishs for teams at all competitive levels, so I'm fine with its implementation now. But, and especially if we leave CBS and lose the commish ability to make retro-active roster moves to previous days, we need to decide, in writing, the consequences (if any) and exact steps to be taken to enforce them.

645

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Wed, Jul 21, 2010, 17:42

darkside cannot post from his work and jsut emailed this to me to post for him...

"I agree and will vote against any offseason rule change that tries to water it down. It seems ludicrous that a league with 8 bench spots can't have a rule that states all teams must start active players, no exceptions. Its such a basic part of sports!

I also agree that leaving hanrahan on waivers is the right thing to do...I told hen I was going to put a claim in on him so fair warning and he told me he would too. That's reasonable." --Darkside

646

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Wed, Jul 21, 2010, 18:07

I had emailed Darkside back saying that I would be keeping Hanrahan on waivers and not allowing him to a be a FA as we don't know if someone else might have nabbed him before him and after bh picked him up. Sure, it may not be optimal with him being unavailable to our league during that time, but it's similar to when people pick up a player and then find a better option and cut him right away. I like the rule Yahoo imped a few years back where that pla would automatically be a FA again but CBS doens't offer that ability.

639: I don't understand your question. Pretty much everythign we do is a choice by our elague except some of their parameters we have no choice on like lineup lock things.

642: "Potential negative stats are worse than zeroes." That's exactly why we have always enforced this. If you don't have to have an active C in your lineup, then I'd rather have no one than a scrub C at times. A scrub C rarely plays and when he does you typically kills your OBP. Much worse than the few counting stats he may provide. So then why even have a C at all? That would definitely make me more competitive if the alternative was someone bad. Or I can simply load my roster with minor leaguers for possible keepers and not have flexibility and when a guy gets hurt I simply hold onto it for a few days. I can still be competitive and do the same things teams who don't ahve a shot this year can do. Only it would be legal for me and not for them if the rule was changed. My tam has been a walking wounded this year and has caused me to make many adjustments. C is one area I'd have let go for at least awhile when IRod got hurt. I've been forced to trade for some roster flexibility too (Uribe-even though he has stunk it up for awhile) to keep roster legal. His OBP along with some of the other guys I've had to use have hurt me thus far.

643: No. I would consider the 20th but he went 0-4 so doubt you'd want that anyhow.

644: Nice post. If we go to a site that does not allow for retroactive lineups/add/drops,we might have several things we need to take into account--esp. where prospects and their illegal pick-ups are concerned.

647

darkside
Achiever
ID: 3590317
Wed, Jul 21, 2010, 18:14

I'm home now, so to follow up on 645...I can see scenarios where a stud SS or 2B is hurt and only garbage is available on the WW making it seem like a good choice to leave them in the spot and just 'lose' the counting stats from the scrub that may have replaced the stud and keep the OBP at a higher level. Certainly a long term injury could be an issue, but a 14 day DL trip for a stud w/ no good replacement on the bench or WW, why not just leave them, especially if you are hurting for OBP and good on counting stats?

I understand the notion that this rule was put in place to keep from having teams tanking, but think we, at times, use our bench too much for speculation and not enough for actually playing (myself included). This rule helps minimize that and, like I said, is one of the most basic notions of sports that I can't fathom how it is a bad thing to require people to field a team of guys who are eligible to play MLB.

In fact, to suggest that this dilutes strategy I think is not correct. It changes it, certainly, but it's as, if not more, difficult to field a quality team than it is to come up with a short term strategy like blue hen did.

A rule like this also makes enforcing it so much easier it's not even close. Once we get into intent it opens the door for a lot of additional debate about what is fair/right/within the rules etc.

That said, I do think this rule should be clarified, penalties clearly laid out, and all included in the primary rules page.

648

darkside
Achiever
ID: 3590317
Wed, Jul 21, 2010, 18:16

Catcher is probably a better scenario than SS or 2B, as described by Ref, but it's the same idea.

649

mjd
Leader
ID: 501381415
Wed, Jul 21, 2010, 18:33

Probably will be a lot of claims in tonight on Harahan. BTW, bh
has the #2 slot.

Just for the record, I have nothing personal against him. I've
exchanged many emails with him and most have been
informative and I've learned a lot from him. And for pure
entertainment value, he's fun to be in a league with.

My problem was the premeditated deliberateness of the move.
But whatever....... there are more than a few teams in the
process of rebuilding and there may be some unintended
consequences to not changing/clarifying this issue.

Do we really want to have a half a dozen teams or more stashing
minor league guys on their active rosters? If the answer is yes, I'll
play along, as I'm one of those teams rebuilding.

I'd prefer not to, but if there's no rule against it..........

650

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Thu, Jul 22, 2010, 10:54

The plot thickens. Now we just have to see who comes out of this Pittsburgh mess. Word on the street is Alvarez is the guy most suited to close.

651

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Thu, Jul 22, 2010, 12:41

All that and neither guy got Hanrahan. Saves are so hard to come by in this league.

I'd still be happy to move a closer but only if it really helps a glaring need. Roberts could return this weekend. Not sure how long it would take him to get back to form (if ever), but that could help me make a run. Talk about a glaring need.

652

StLCards
Dude
ID: 31010716
Thu, Jul 22, 2010, 12:58

The rule was designed to prevent stashing players at the expense of generating statistics. With 8 bench spots and a prospect draft there are plenty of opportunities to lay claim to the next great thing.

Tanking can be accomplished quite easily without having players on the DL on your team and the focus of the rule wasn't specifically tanking.

The rule is more designed to teams that are essentially "out of it" but also has to be applied equally to all teams.

For example, I'm near last place and have Joe Keeper on the DL. I have a bunch of next year and future type players on my bench that I don't really want to get rid of, but I don't have anybody at Joe Keeper's position that isn't either hurt or in the minors. If I don't put an active player in the lineup, then I get to keep Joe Keeper and build my stash of players.

The problem with that is that I am now not as competitive as I could be and that can effect the race at the top. Even though my team is out of it, my team can still impact multiple categories and thus the standings. Hoarding the extra player also denies that player to another rebuilding team that is fielding an active lineup and might have an open spot for him.

The game is supposed to be about making decisions, do I drop player x for player y or not. However, for the best interest of the league, you are still expected to field an active lineup.

Additionally the rule is designed to keep players monitoring there teams. It is very easy to just say I'm out of it and not worry much about the team the rest of the year. That leads to players in the active lineup that are on the DL or sent to the minors. Nothing malicious about it, but still affects the competitiveness of the league.

I fully understand the frustration associated with having to drop a player as it happened to me. My catcher hit the DL and I had to pick a player to drop even though he would only be gone for two weeks. I ended up having to drop Brian Wilson who then became the closer I would have needed the following season. I've really never gotten over that either even though I'm not even in the league anymore.

Best of luck to all.

653

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Thu, Jul 22, 2010, 13:22

True. The best thing I could have done was at the very outset, said "Oh yeah, I should drop Bedard instead of Nix so I don't have to play Choo." Then I'd still have Hanrahan. Oh well - live and learn.

654

mjd
Leader
ID: 501381415
Thu, Jul 22, 2010, 14:42

The same Bedard that is unlikely to pitch again this year that you
tried to trade to several of us yesterday?

Say it ain't so :(;

655

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Thu, Jul 22, 2010, 15:12

Wait, is it against the rules to offer an injured guy who was once great to the 7 worst teams in the league to see if there was any interest in releasing him?

One piece of consolation - all of you had the same answer (which is the reason I drafted him): that guy is so tantalizing.

656

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Thu, Jul 22, 2010, 15:18

Nothing wrong with trolling a guy.

657

Great One
ID: 38649207
Thu, Jul 22, 2010, 15:23

If I were out of it I'd be trading for him. Just like I would have used my high priority on Peavy.

658

Judy
ID: 54203110
Thu, Jul 22, 2010, 18:57

GO -- he's on the waiver wire -- feel free to go get him!

659

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Thu, Jul 22, 2010, 19:08

GO is referring to my using my high WW position to do just that--snag Peavy.

I'm already carrying Chris Carter, who I was hoping would be in the bigs at this point. So having two dead positions isn't the ideal for me, but Peavy has a good chance to be a top 25 starting pitcher next year, so I felt it to be worth using the spot for him.

660

Judy
ID: 54203110
Thu, Jul 22, 2010, 19:29

You can thank me for peavy -- I'm going younger with leake,
hanson, and Cecil -- didn't see a keeper role for peavy --
hope it works for you!

661

Bh
ID: 426111516
Fri, Jul 23, 2010, 08:29

I considered Peavy, but he's just too risky for my tastes. But
if you have the space, it's a good gamble. I'd guess you'll be
looking at Bedard as well. Look at Billy Wagner - sometimes
injured guys work out.

662

Great One
ID: 38649207
Fri, Jul 23, 2010, 09:00

Its better (for a rebuilding team) than wasting a spot on a guy like Vicente Padilla or someone who is never gonna be a keeper.

663

Great One
ID: 38649207
Fri, Jul 23, 2010, 09:05

Neil Walker seems to be emerging into someone who could be a 2B keeper... I'd move him though (possibly paired with a draft pick) for a below average closer, or for a solid non-keeper SP.

664

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Fri, Jul 23, 2010, 12:54

Cleveland OF Shin-Soo Choo singled while making his Double-A debut with Akron in a rehab appearance on Monday. Choo is expected to rejoin the Indians' lineup on Friday when the Tribe opens a series against the Rays, reports MLB.com on Monday. Choo is expected to bat third, according to skipper Manny Acta.

Does anybody have an issue if I put him in my lineup for today?

665

Great One
ID: 38649207
Fri, Jul 23, 2010, 14:17

go for it

667

Great One
ID: 47515621
Sat, Jul 24, 2010, 11:07

Ref surrounded by a BH, Species, Slizz and GO active hyper-trader sandwich.

668

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Sun, Jul 25, 2010, 08:35

Anyone want Ordonez for next season?

669

Bh
ID: 426111516
Sun, Jul 25, 2010, 11:33

And goatlocker too. I want to make at least one more big
splash.

670

GoatLocker
Leader
ID: 060151121
Sun, Jul 25, 2010, 15:32

Just a little tweaking :)

671

Species
Dude
ID: 07724916
Sun, Jul 25, 2010, 17:19

Crap. Maybe I need to trade for a power-hitting catcher in the middle of a strong AL East lineup.

Oh wait! I get him back from a month on the DL. Cool! ;)

672

Species
Dude
ID: 07724916
Sun, Jul 25, 2010, 17:24

PS - serious props to GO for oh-so-quietly sneaking into this thing! Nice work man.

673

blue hen
ID: 266191021
Sun, Jul 25, 2010, 19:51

I wouldn't call it quiet - every time I want to pick someone up, I go to the waiver wire, and there he is on Great One's team. Including Duensing, who he picked up while I was debating.

674

Judy
ID: 54203110
Sun, Jul 25, 2010, 21:49

Good grief what a day -- 3/34 hitter and I used all 6 active P!

675

Great One
ID: 47515621
Sun, Jul 25, 2010, 21:58

Duensing won me some leagues last year, so I've got a good relationship with him. I probably would have debated 5 more minutes if I didn't, and he'd be yours.

676

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Tue, Jul 27, 2010, 14:52

P. Alvarez has been called up for the first time and placed on YR's bench.

677

Great One
ID: 38649207
Tue, Jul 27, 2010, 16:19

Nothing better than when your backups produce on off days when given a chance like Joyce did yesterday with the grand salami...

678

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Tue, Jul 27, 2010, 16:51

Even though my team seems to be worse off after the trades I've made than before, I'd still rather take the chance to get better than to continue on the same course at the times of those deals. Hard to complain about anything when you're in 3rd place. Holding out hope that Brian Roberts is going to be what I need to get me that much needed push at this point is probably too optimistic.

679

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Tue, Jul 27, 2010, 17:26

Which trades are you talking about? I think you're in good shape, although I think you and me are going to have a nice battle for third after the Great One and the Species One get going.

680

judy
ID: 9729212
Tue, Jul 27, 2010, 23:15

As I head to bed, my batters are 1-25 tonight...sheesh!

681

Peter N.
ID: 426102322
Wed, Jul 28, 2010, 09:33

Not sure if there is any interest, but Ibanez could be had for very cheap.

682

Great One
ID: 38649207
Wed, Jul 28, 2010, 09:59

I see my boy Logan Morrison is up now for the Minorettes... he's gonna be a nice 1B/OF keeper. Good forward thinking by that squad.

I'm surprised I'm not getting more offers for my young guys I can't keep like Neil Walker, Tabata, Joyce, Clayton Richard etc. These guys all have so much more upside than the Padillas and Pavanos of the world and might turn into something - at the least are producing just as well. So why not have the upside to go with it? But I would trade them now for more guaranteed production since I'm in the thick of things and need the stability.

683

Great One
ID: 38649207
Wed, Jul 28, 2010, 14:06

And Daniel Bard will likely be the Sox closer next year and I had planned him as a tentative keeper... but if I could find someone to save some games the rest of the way...

684

Great One
ID: 38649207
Wed, Jul 28, 2010, 14:33

Damn, now I gotta make room... if Dominic can be traded away by Species 3 months ago, and can now come back and beat him - that would be awesome!

Jim Salisbury of CSNPhilly.com hears that the Phillies will place Shane Victorino (oblique) on the disabled list and call up top prospect outfielder Domonic Brown from Triple-A Lehigh Valley.

685

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Wed, Jul 28, 2010, 14:52

GO -- tis true -- I managed to snag Dom for AAA. (lost Shane though...to the BN only, but obliques
can take a month or more to heal...)

My G20 batters are just in a slump like all the Phillies were for a coupla months there. I sure do
hope it does not last THAT long...

686

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Wed, Jul 28, 2010, 16:49

Agreed. I hope the Phillies slump does not last that long. By the way, I have Ryan Howard in my RIBC league and have no idea what you are talking about.

Honestly, Brown's probably been able to outhit Victorino for 2 or 3 years already.

687

beastiemiked
ID: 23127320
Wed, Jul 28, 2010, 19:56

So glad I wasted my WW priority on 1/3 of an inning. Thanks Pineiro. Probably going to be the shortest use of WW priority and dumping ever.

688

GoatLocker
Leader
ID: 060151121
Thu, Jul 29, 2010, 00:20

I dropped him for a reason.
Pineiro that is.

689

beastiemiked
ID: 23127320
Thu, Jul 29, 2010, 00:54

Well he had been better than almost all of my pitchers this season. He had 7 straight quality starts before his last start.

690

GoatLocker
Leader
ID: 060151121
Thu, Jul 29, 2010, 19:03

Well, not bad, three players traded in two days and all to contenders.
Sure hope that bodes well for me.

Oswalt - Philly
Podsednik - LAD
Miguel Tejada - San Diego Padres

691

GoatLocker
Leader
ID: 060151121
Fri, Jul 30, 2010, 00:02

OK, I'm wrong
Make it 4 in 2 days.

Capps to Twinkies

692

R9
ID: 2854239
Fri, Jul 30, 2010, 01:18

Pods looks like he might be the odd man out once Manny gets back, but alot can happen between now and then I guess. Trade probably lowers his value though.

The other 3 all gained in value (or Tejada proably stayed the same) and Capps to twinkies also hurts Hen, which is good for those chasing him and those who are trying to trade him a closer. :p

693

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Fri, Jul 30, 2010, 10:11

If I was running the Twins, I'd probably rather have Rauch out there than Capps, but that's the breaks. Yesterday was not the greatest.

I guess I can move Stanton if anybody has something to offer that will get me back in this thing.

694

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Fri, Jul 30, 2010, 10:39

I have sent Strasburg down.

Pods is there as a stopgap and a fill-in once Manny gets back. Will come in for Manny late in games and be a PR, etc.

695

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Fri, Jul 30, 2010, 10:49

He's likely to be used by Torre like Juan Pierre last year. And that worked out pretty well for Pierre last year.

696

beastiemiked
ID: 23127320
Fri, Jul 30, 2010, 23:16

Good pick up darkside Kila has been on my radar forever. Went to pick him up and saw you swiped him. Damn you.

697

darkside
Achiever
ID: 3590317
Sat, Jul 31, 2010, 11:10

He's been on my roster a few times before, so when I saw they were talking about calling him up, it wasn't a hard decision. He's could be a monster in an OBP league like this, if he actually gets some starts.

698

blue hen
ID: 266191021
Sat, Jul 31, 2010, 18:13

Some trades that affect our league:
- Capps to Twins. I really hope Rauch can take it over, but Capps got through save #1 unblemished.
- Dotel to Dodgers. I guess I traded him just in time. For all the fuss about Hanrahan, the reports are that he'll split with Meek.
- Lilly to Dodgers. He joins a deeper staff but in a better park. Will be interesting to see how this plays out.
- Qualls to Rays. Heilman was not traded. I'm lucky to have him.
- Berkman to Yankees. I have to think this cuts into his playing time. And somehow, his ballpark is even better for hitters.
- Oswalt to Phillies. This should get him at least a couple more wins.
- Brett Wallace to Astros. Should be a decent hitter from here on out.
- Braves get Rick Ankiel. Man, people love giving him chances.
- Yanks get Kerry Wood. Kills most of his value. Probably some of Joba's too. Wish I'd taken Chris Perez in the first round like I intended.
- Theriot to Dodgers. Should ensure he plays every day, but in a cavernous ballpark and a struggling lineup.

699

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Sat, Jul 31, 2010, 18:32

Joba has been killing off his own value anyway. Smart move for the Yanks. Wood, when healthy, can still bring it. And having another proven closer in the pen can only help.

Interesting that a lot of the big name players moved have all been seriously underperforming this year. Maybe that's why most of the players being sent back are prospects.

700

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Sat, Jul 31, 2010, 22:41

Lidge is gonna kill the real Phillies chances if Charlie keeps using
him to close. He just does not have it this year. No control.

701

R9
ID: 2854239
Sun, Aug 01, 2010, 10:59

- Ankiel: If a team was to use him properly (sit him vs. lefties) he could be a valuable member of a platoon. No way KC would get that right, but Atl might. Sucks for fantasy probably, but maybe good for the Braves.
- Why would TB even want Qualls? Had to be better arms out there?
- Lots of people slamming the Capps trade, which I don't get. Ramos is a solid catching prospect with a mediocre bat. Guys like that in FA go for 3-4 mil per season, and there's always a couple of those available each off-season. Sounds like about the right price for a solid RP arm with another year or two of Twins control?

702

Great One
ID: 556282911
Mon, Aug 02, 2010, 09:22

Great trade from the Nationals perspective, got something for Capps and can now let the young guys take over.

703

beastiemiked
ID: 10432914
Mon, Aug 02, 2010, 15:27

Preparing to self destruct. If my pitching doesn't come through tuesday and wednesday I'm going to start dismantling.

Guys like Posada, Berkman, Lilly, Gregg, Axford, Werth, Willinghman, Thome, Morrow, Santana, Vargas, etc would all be available.

Some are going to cost more than others since they are currently keepers but others can be had for cheap since they aren't viable keepers. If you are a contender and interested in anybody on my team, feel free to shoot me an email. Don't let your competitors get a leg up on you!

704

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Wed, Aug 04, 2010, 10:59

Man, this league is competitive. You can't blink for a second without a trade or astute waiver pickup happening.

Hanrahan with a save last night. Enjoy it, Goatlocker. At least I have some faith in my own instincts.

705

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Wed, Aug 04, 2010, 11:05

C.Santana has been optioned for GO.

706

Great One
ID: 556282911
Wed, Aug 04, 2010, 11:16

I'm exploring trades for another catcher. At least I can keep Carlos as a prospect for next season now. Not how I wanted that to happen though.

707

Great One
ID: 556282911
Wed, Aug 04, 2010, 11:37

When you are in the live scoring page, and you click on a column header in the standings at the bottom? what exactly does it sort by? cause it never sorts the way i expect it will. Like by what I am actually looking at.

708

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Wed, Aug 04, 2010, 16:25

I don't want to spam the rest of the boards, but if any of you know someone who might be qualified for this job (Web Developer at ESPN), please shoot me an email. This isn't exactly spam - it IS sports related, and if we find a good candidate, it could help you in G20 (because BH will be too busy to manage his team).

709

Species
ID: 9740416
Wed, Aug 04, 2010, 17:40

Sounds like he's building in an excuse in advance if you ask me

711

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Thu, Aug 05, 2010, 09:59

True. THAT's why I won't win. Right. But seriously - it will be a big help if we find someone good.

712

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Thu, Aug 05, 2010, 10:00

I guess it's time to put Russell Martin on the block. Looking for some picks, I guess. I could use the roster space this season, and he should be near the top tier of catchers for you next season.

713

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Thu, Aug 05, 2010, 14:32

In case anyone questions the Chris Sale transaction today, it has been thoroughly researched and fixed. In CBS' infinite wisdom, they decided to change Sale's page to a new one and deactiviate the current Sale. The old Sale and the new Sale have been traded out on darkside's team to rectify the issue.

714

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Thu, Aug 05, 2010, 14:35

Actually, if Sale gets in the game today, I will have to reverse that again and redo it and backdate the addition as Sale was in his active lineup today. If not, Im not going to mess with it. I didn't realize we were already past today's freeze.

715

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Thu, Aug 05, 2010, 14:39

I went ahead and reversed it already and backdated it and put it in his lineup retroactively so we could be done with it.

716

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Thu, Aug 05, 2010, 15:51

FYI - Sale is the first player from the draft to the majors.

717

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Thu, Aug 05, 2010, 16:01

Nice. The guy already has some college ball behind him, which is a good sign for a pitcher.

718

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Thu, Aug 05, 2010, 17:20

Talk about dropping the ball...it appears that CBS already had Sale in their db and they didn't realize it and added him again. That's why they finaly figureed out their mistake and nuked the original Sale. Not sure why they didn't nuke the new one, but that's CBS for you. I htink they did the same thing for Dee Gordon previously as well.

719

beastiemiked
ID: 10432914
Thu, Aug 05, 2010, 18:27

Darkside slowly becoming the favorite for Manager of the Year. Making good moves left and right.

720

Species
ID: 9740416
Thu, Aug 05, 2010, 22:33

Slowly???? darkside has been MONEY all year! Outside of pussing out and pulling the plug when in the top 5....he's absolutely been Manager of the Year. Great pickups all year.

Not bad for someone who cried about work and family getting in the way ;) Sure seems like he's been more on top of the WW and all of the latest call-ups to me

721

beastiemiked
ID: 10432914
Fri, Aug 06, 2010, 11:11

I said slowly so bh wouldn't get his feelings hurt.

722

Great One
ID: 2275057
Fri, Aug 06, 2010, 11:25

I've had multiple people tell me I keep stealing all the guys they want.

And I have beaten almost everyone with crappy keepers and no draft picks the 1st 3 rounds --- but with a combo of all star waiver wire pickups (Dickey, Padilla, A.Simon, Neil Walker, Tabata, Crisp, Joyce), prospects (Carlos(grr), Dominic and Smoak) and late draft picks (Ike, Freese, Clayton Richard). Plus got lucky when Lester took off after trading for him from Haren. Also lucky trading Sizemore for Morneau.

Gonna be carrying Dominic and Carlos for free into next season too which is good for the long term. And somehow I haven't traded away any high draft picks either - but actually added a few - even though I have tried multiple times.

723

Toral
ID: 526301920
Sun, Aug 08, 2010, 14:39

Whoops. It looks like I had 4 OFs and no DH today. Not intended.

724

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Sun, Aug 08, 2010, 15:31

723: fixed. Happens a lot.

722: I'm pretty much the opposite of you. Bad trades. Bad pickups for the most part. Just a bad job managing. But did get a few nuggets in the draft. Missed a lot though. Hoping to hold onto a top 6 spot while also maybe trading some chips for draft picks, etc.

725

beastiemiked
ID: 10432914
Sun, Aug 08, 2010, 15:40

No hitter would've been nice but I'll take the 17k's. Give bh some props. He was interested in Morrow earlier this week and would've got him if my team didn't start moving up the ladder.

726

blue hen @minnesota
ID: 4811542923
Sun, Aug 08, 2010, 17:35

Argh. I guess that's it for getting Morrow under the radar. I have him on a bunch of other teams, and I think this is the start of something very good. Kudos, bmd. Enjoy him.

I give a lot of credit to Great One. He's the one guy who, more than any other, has already picked up the guy I'm looking to add. Including once while I was in process.

Species (and to a lesser extent Ref) is the king of the trade. They both probably take it personally, but that is one of the reasons I almost never trade with them - even if I think I'm winning it, they usually come out ahead.

That said, Darkside is pretty good with the entire combination. He always seems to have the right prospect or the right fill-in at just the right time.

And oh yeah, it's a great feeling to be in second place with all that competition.

727

Judy
ID: 54203110
Sun, Aug 08, 2010, 20:00

I've traded for Gonzalez(ss), Quentin, Loney, Leake, Cecil,
and the best add-on has been CarGo -- MVP???
Gave away Pujols, Desmond and Santana to get them. Got a
second #1 as well. Not a ton of action, but I like what I did.

728

Species
Dude
ID: 07724916
Sun, Aug 08, 2010, 23:52

hen - I don't necessarily "win" every trade. In fact, I'd like to pride myself in creating as many "win/win" scenarios as possible. I've traded plenty of high quality and high upside players who look to be working out for their owners:

- Jason Heyward (for M. Rivera)
- Domonic Brown (for Wagner)
- Rickie Weeks (although it's taken 2 years!)
- Jon Lester
- The rights to Justin Upton
- Matt Cain
- Prince Fielder
- Hanley Ramirez
- Grady Sizemore
- Starlin Castro (it's early, but hitting well over .300 as a 20 year old is impressive)
- Jason Bay
- Aramis Ramirez
- Javier Vazquez
- Magglio Ordonez

Now, I've traded plenty of people who have turned out to be bums (or not reaching their potential), including Dice-K, Alex Gordon (twice now - lol), Stephen Drew, Huston Street (sort of) and many other prospects.

I have overpaid on more than a few occasions -- but the lesson hen refuses to consider is to get that premium player of need (COUGHPUJOLSCOUGH), sometimes you just have to pay the price.

729

Great One
ID: 2275057
Mon, Aug 09, 2010, 08:51

Judy - your Johan for CarGo deal was the exact deal a contending team should be making with a non-contending team. You are both better for it in your current situations.

I still don't think you got enough out of Pujols though. Leake and Cecil are not even owned in some of the deepest of leagues I'm in like RIBC. I guess keeper might be different, but thats big leap from guys that aren't even owned to being keeper worthy cause they are young.

Heck - even if you have Dominic right now, and knew you could carry him over for free - thats better than all the current guys you got combined (other than Alonso of course, but he's still hard to quantify cause there isn't a debut timeframe).

And yeah - the Wagner for Dominic deal, I made that thinking I no chance to compete this year. Then a lot of things started clicking.

730

Great One
ID: 2275057
Mon, Aug 09, 2010, 09:00

And I speak from experience trading a guy at the top -- cause as Species alluded to above we had a big deal of A-Rod for DiceK, Gordon (as a prospect) and a high draft pick which turned out to be Broxton.

But Dice has been ok, and Broxton was obviously good but Gordon's failures to this point in his career made that a trade a big loss. He was the key. Thankfully Dice has been pretty darn good this year since his return.

731

Judy
ID: 54203110
Mon, Aug 09, 2010, 10:10

I think I am both building and trying to reach certain goals
this year -- some stats are so bad there is NO hope...

Cecil (9-5/ 3.62/ 1.17/ 13QS) and Leake (7-3/ 3.85/ 1.40/
12QS) and Hanson along with Soriano and Wilson make a
nice keeper pitching core for me, assuming there is not a
sophomore jinx...

Time will tell as I figure out all the keeper / prospect stuff.

732

Great One
ID: 2275057
Mon, Aug 09, 2010, 11:33

Yeah, its tricky too cause they seem to be struggling lately - but they also might be hitting the rookie wall of innings pitched.

733

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Mon, Aug 09, 2010, 17:28

I think Leake is just about at the rookie wall (he skipped the minors) and for Cecil his last
14 days are not too bad (2 GS, 1 W, (the loss was 1-0, I think), ERA 1.38, WHIP 0.836).

Leake's last game was a stinker -- we'll see how he does tonight...Maybe Cincy will spot
him a few runs so he does not need to be perfect.

Hanson is like Hamels and Halladay -- he pitches these great games and loses 2-1, 1-0.
All three H's should have at least 5 more wins this season.

734

Toral
ID: 526301920
Mon, Aug 09, 2010, 17:40

Don't encourage them, Judy. They're engaging in a round of mutual backpatting at their baseball inetelligence. Which in most bases is non-existent. They just inherited good teams.

It's reminscent of Cool Hand Luke sending his pictures of fine New Orleans ladies back to the prisoners in the sweaty Hellhole.

Toeal

735

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Mon, Aug 09, 2010, 20:04

SMACK -- the sound you just heard was Leake hitting the wall...

Gave up a GS to Schumaker...out after 3.2

736

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Mon, Aug 09, 2010, 20:15

He even forgot how many outs there were--he started trotting to the dugout after the second out of the inning. He got blasted.

737

Great One
ID: 47515621
Mon, Aug 09, 2010, 20:42

I'm not sure what they inherited, but mine was last place 2 seasons in a row during takeover (counting the year i took over midseason) til I could get rid of the deadweights.

738

Species
Dude
ID: 07724916
Mon, Aug 09, 2010, 22:46

Toral sure as hell doesn't remember my keepers from 2005:

1. Zack Greinke, SP, KC
2. Prince Fielder, 1B, MIL
3. Casey Kotchman, 1B, LAAoA
4. Edwin Jackson, SP, LA
5. Rickie Weeks, 2B, MIL
6. Grady Sizemore, OF, CLE
7. Joel Piniero, SP, SEA
8. Jason Bay, OF, PIT
9. Paul Konerko, 1B, CHW

Yeah, I inherited a whopper of a team! Hell, I had to wheel and deal for pretty much that entire roster! I might have had Konerko and Piniero when I started.

739

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Tue, Aug 10, 2010, 00:16

You can tell this is a relative dead time as we trade "insults" about our rosters and moves...
We need September to come -- August is boring already --
Yeah for the Little League World Series on TV -- time for some serious baseball!

740

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Tue, Aug 10, 2010, 00:16

Just out of curiosity -- how many of you played Little League?

741

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Tue, Aug 10, 2010, 01:02

I've made three trades during this season and they've all been horrible on my end. Mags cut. Uribe should be cut. Stubbs 1-37 in my lineup and has been benched. Vaz has just 3 wins in 8 weeks. KRod--don't need him at all. Was winning saves when I got him, but I had planned to flip a closer for steals. Unfortunately, that didn't happen. Getting plenty of offers for both of them now, but nothing that will help me in the future. You know it's bad when you can't even field an outfield on a day by day basis.

I will be calling up Strasburg when he comes off the DL in time for his game.

742

Great One
ID: 2275057
Tue, Aug 10, 2010, 08:54

I played on a Little League traveling all-star type team. 1B and pitcher. I pitched awful in a really important qualifier. Never forget it.

743

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Tue, Aug 10, 2010, 10:37

I played right field. And you know what they say about right fielders.

At least in high school I sat on the bench keeping score and updating the stats database. I guess that turned out to be good for something...

744

R9
ID: 2854239
Tue, Aug 10, 2010, 17:07

I played Little League for a couple years, then my city went to a Federated model. Played until I blew out my shoulder around 18, mostly as a pitcher. They stuck me out in right field too when I wasn't pitching. :p

745

slizz
ID: 43133920
Tue, Aug 10, 2010, 18:52

Pitcher / 3rd Base. Good Arm, Awful Defense, Good bat.

Our 12 year old all-star team (HTRBA) didn't advance out of the District tournament the year I played but the year after our squad was the only team to beat the soon-to-be back to back champs Toms River and should have advanced to the LLWS Regionals had the ump not blown the call in the top 6 that would've ended the game for us (now my lil bro's squad).

They ended up winning 2x in a row and KO'd HTRBA and than rolled to the title. bastards.

746

slizz
ID: 43133920
Tue, Aug 10, 2010, 18:55

he pulled a "Joyce"...

747

Great One
ID: 2275057
Wed, Aug 11, 2010, 08:50

every time I drive on Little League World Champions Blvd. on the way to Seaside I'll think of Slizz...

748

darkside
ID: 247571121
Wed, Aug 11, 2010, 22:57

I played little league until I was 13 and started working in the summer.

re: 719/20....Thanks! Wish I felt I deserved any sort of praise. I don't know how some of this stuff works out, but I'm happy with how the team has been so far this year.

Still on vacation. I highly recommend Maine in the summer!

749

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Wed, Aug 11, 2010, 23:42

Where in Maine are you? I've got family way up in Machias.

750

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Thu, Aug 12, 2010, 09:41

Wait wait wait. Post 747. You go to Seaside? Do you ever see JWoww?

751

darkside
ID: 2277129
Thu, Aug 12, 2010, 10:07

We were camping in the Rangeley Lakes region and have family just
on the border with NH.

When I left DC last Thu the low was 80. On Friday, the low at the
campsite was 40. Quite a change.

752

Great One
ID: 2275057
Thu, Aug 12, 2010, 10:22

I hang out with Snooki.

753

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Thu, Aug 12, 2010, 14:43

I figured. I gave you too much credit.

754

Slackjawed Yokel
ID: 405212423
Sat, Aug 14, 2010, 21:57

Commishes - I'd like to call up Jeremy Hellickson and drop Randy Wells. thanks.

755

beastiemiked
ID: 10432914
Sat, Aug 14, 2010, 22:44

Ugh, guess the pirates moved up Bud Norris. I thought for sure he was going tomorrow until I got a text from bh after Norris gave up 2 runs in the 1st. His text read "a thousand thank yous for preventing me from picking up Bud Norris...". Still thanking me? At least for your sake CBS screwed up the probables(they had him going on Sunday according to yesterday's probables) so I missed his start.

756

Great One
ID: 427451421
Sat, Aug 14, 2010, 23:13

Wow... how about the two complete games from waiver wire wonders Dickey and Duensing this weekend... 4 hits combined, in 2 shutouts. I almost benched Dickey too vs. Philly and Hamels.

Now if I could fix my power outage. My bats have fallen asleep. I'm in the market for a HR hitter.

757

R9
ID: 2854239
Sun, Aug 15, 2010, 03:34

Commishes - I'd like to call up Mike Minor and drop Andruw Jones. Danke schön!

Probably a little late in the game, but anyone wanting a closer Kuo can be had pretty cheap, and/or Valverde can be had for more.

758

Slackjawed Yokel
ID: 405212423
Sun, Aug 15, 2010, 12:41

[re 754] I wanted to make sure I had Hellickson in my lineup today, so I went ahead and added him myself. So, this'll probably show up that my lineup is illegal, but hopefully you guys can fix this and it's not more of a hassle than it would have been to add him retroactively...

(I'm sure now that I've made a big deal out of this, Hellickson will have his first bad outing.)

759

Bh
ID: 426111516
Sun, Aug 15, 2010, 19:08

See what I mean? Great moves, Great One.

In other news, did anyone else realize that Trevor Cahill is a
year younger than Hellickson?

760

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Sun, Aug 15, 2010, 19:43

Helickson and Minor have been called up for the first time to their respective teams. It often helps if you can email the commishs as well as apparently none of us were able to get on before the game. It's easier to fix a prospect you call up than it is sending a prospect down (esp. since if he no longer qualifies as a prospect you lose him when you cut him).

757 Went in to retroactivate your request but found that Minor didn't play and Jones was a reserve so it wasn't necessary. Simply added your request effective tomorrow.

761

Great One
ID: 15751159
Sun, Aug 15, 2010, 20:15

6 unearned for Felix today... great.

762

Species
Dude
ID: 07724916
Sun, Aug 15, 2010, 20:39

6 unearned for Felix today... great.

Yeah, but his WHIP sucked.

Nice to come back from 4 days of camping to see I'm still in fine standing. Six more weeks to go, boys.....keep it up.

763

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Mon, Aug 16, 2010, 10:09

I have called up Stanton (dropped Feliciano).

764

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Mon, Aug 16, 2010, 15:47

Looks like Michael Ynoa is headed for Tommy John surgery. Ouch. Once one of the youngest "can't miss" type guys... might just do that.

765

Species
ID: 217501414
Mon, Aug 16, 2010, 17:43

I wouldn't call Ynoa can't miss.....he was more of a "highest upside" type. The huge, "easy" fastball and control at 16 had visions of a #1 starter dancing through scouts' heads.

And these days, getting your TJ surgery out of the way is almost a given these days. It's amazing how well these kids come back from it, and better than never. That said, it's not a good sign and the odds aren't in his favor...but it's not the death blow it used to be.

766

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Mon, Aug 16, 2010, 17:50

Certainly a lot of hype for the guy.

Oakland has a much bigger decision than I do for Ynoa--I can just hold onto him until next ASB without having to worry. Hopefully there will be more information at that time.

767

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Mon, Aug 16, 2010, 17:56

True. Granted, the kid could go through two Tommy John's and still not be old enough to shave.

768

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Tue, Aug 17, 2010, 10:31

Wow, how did we let Species get Takahashi?

769

Great One
ID: 2275057
Tue, Aug 17, 2010, 10:51

I'm not sure it matters, he got the save yesterday but there may be a full blown committee. So who knows. I would personally let Parnell give it a shot to prove he can do it cause he actually has potential.

770

Guru
ID: 330592710
Tue, Aug 17, 2010, 12:15

Trade announcement:
GO gets Nick Swisher plus Guru's 13th round pick in the 2011 supplemental draft

Guru gets Matt Joyce plus GO's 1st round pick in the 2011 supplemental draft

771

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Tue, Aug 17, 2010, 12:16

Noticed the trade with GO and Guru - Joyce for Swisher. Draft picks?

772

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Tue, Aug 17, 2010, 12:25

Found it - GO's first and Guru's 13th. I probably wouldn't have given up that much for Swisher, but I get it.

773

Tosh
Leader
ID: 057721710
Tue, Aug 17, 2010, 13:50

A number of new players have been added to the CBS database.

A $1 salary needs to be added to many of them.

774

Great One
ID: 2275057
Tue, Aug 17, 2010, 15:21

BH finally gives up on Nick Johnson?

775

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Tue, Aug 17, 2010, 15:52

He's officially out for the year. It's a shame too - he still has more walks in 2010 than Carlos Gonzalez (in 350 fewer ABs).

776

beastiemiked
ID: 10432914
Tue, Aug 17, 2010, 16:03

It's good to know CBS has enough resources to completely change their layout. Too bad they don't have a programming ninja like Dave Lipman to allow for gametime lineup changes.

777

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Tue, Aug 17, 2010, 16:05

Yeah, too bad.

778

darkside
Achiever
ID: 3590317
Tue, Aug 17, 2010, 22:44

So....am I crazy, or does the CBS transaction report history only go back to the 16th?

779

beastiemiked
ID: 10432914
Tue, Aug 17, 2010, 23:40

Probably happened when they switched formats. I imagine they'll fix it since they have transactions from all the way back to 2003.

780

Species
Dude
ID: 07724916
Wed, Aug 18, 2010, 01:27

Wow, how did we let Species get Takahashi?

Doesn't really matter. It's unlikely I will move up.....or move down either for that matter. But no sense letting a perfectly good closer candidate sit out there for someone else who could gain points :D

781

Great One
ID: 2275057
Wed, Aug 18, 2010, 08:56

CBS looks better, but it still doesn't function any better. None of the problems in #178 are any better.

782

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Wed, Aug 18, 2010, 15:44

Please check your prospects to see if they have been added to teh CBS database. It is your responsibility to let us know.

I'll feel like I won the championship if I can somehow manage to finish in the top 6.

783

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Wed, Aug 18, 2010, 15:53

Miller is NOT in the CBS database. Hosmer is (and so is Stanton, obviously).

784

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Wed, Aug 18, 2010, 16:59

Only need to know if they are listed as not in db (enoted by a *) and have been added so we can add a salary to them.

785

Tosh
Leader
ID: 057721710
Wed, Aug 18, 2010, 17:41

Manny Machado (SS, BAL) needs a $1 salary. (I would do it, but not sure how him being on waivers and adding him to my roster will work).

786

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Wed, Aug 18, 2010, 17:59

You can't add him to your own roster to go over the roster limits or if he's on waivers anyhow.

787

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Wed, Aug 18, 2010, 18:24

Looks like Shelby Miller needs a *.

788

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Wed, Aug 18, 2010, 18:30

He's in the db and has a salary attached already. The * are for prospects who are not in the db so we can keep track of who needs a salary added when they are added to the db.

789

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Wed, Aug 18, 2010, 19:06

Weird, he didn't show in search. But then he did. Ignorame.

790

mjd
Leader
ID: 501381415
Wed, Aug 18, 2010, 21:01

Zack Cox is now in the data base and needs a 1.

791

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Thu, Aug 19, 2010, 00:12

Michael Choice is in the DB and needs a salary.

792

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Thu, Aug 19, 2010, 01:42

Why does the CBS batter have a strike zone from the shoulders to the shins?

793

Great One
ID: 2275057
Thu, Aug 19, 2010, 09:09

If only they called that strike!

794

Great One
ID: 2275057
Fri, Aug 20, 2010, 08:54

Anyone got a catcher for sale? just a temporary cause I only need him 6 weeks.

795

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Fri, Aug 20, 2010, 10:23

I'm looking for something solid at second base. Make me an offer.

796

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Sat, Aug 21, 2010, 08:39

I must have missed the original alert on the bmd/toral trade. What draft picks were involved in that deal?

797

Toral
ID: 377501519
Sat, Aug 21, 2010, 09:23

6th/10th

798

Species
Dude
ID: 07724916
Sat, Aug 21, 2010, 12:24

I'm actually planning on writing up an advertisement for my keepers, but since I saw this, I figured it worth posting now.....Eric Young Jr. looks to be taking over in Colorado. He's prospect-eligible and a valuable asset as a HUGE stolen base threat in your 2b hole.

Eric Young Jr. showing off his wheels
August, 20, 2010
Aug 20
12:23
PM ET

Fantasy owners feeling the need for speed down the stretch should pay close attention to Eric Young Jr. of the Colorado Rockies.

The 25-year-old second baseman missed three months earlier this season because of a stress fracture in his leg, but it hasn't appeared to have affected his speed since he returned. Young has started the past five games for the Rockies since being activated, and manager Jim Tracy said he expects to give Young a long audition in the team's leadoff spot, especially given the team's problems this season finding a leadoff hitter who can post a good on-base percentage. The release of Brad Hawpe further clears the road for regular playing time for the speedster.

Eric Young Jr.
Doug Pensinger/Getty ImagesEric Young Jr. already has seven steals this season despite having only 52 at-bats.

So far, Young has made the most of his opportunity, reaching base in all five contests and eight times overall, in addition to stealing three bases. Young's game is all about his wheels, as he has stolen at least 46 bags in each of the past four minor league seasons, including 58 at Triple-A last year. With 70 speed on the 20-to-80 scouting scale, good instincts on the basepaths and an ability to get to top speed quickly, Young can carry his healthy stolen base totals to the big league level. I've said in the past that more than one other scout has mentioned to me that he is indeed a similar player to his father (who had three seasons of more than 50 steals in the big leagues himself) at this stage of his career.

Of course, if Young has trouble getting on base, his speed won't matter much. However, while the switch hitter still must be careful about expanding the strike zone a bit too much, and cut down his swing with two strikes a little more, he does have a decent approach and is capable of posting an OBP in the .350 range, which should be enough to give him chances to use his fleet feet. Young has told me in the past that he fully understands that "strike zone discipline is a big thing for a leadoff hitter," and that he's not up there just looking to take his hacks. He has good bat control, solid bat speed and enough gap power to keep outfield defenses honest.

Young will primarily take time away from Clint Barmes at second base but could also see some time in left field as well, giving him some potential position flexibility in fantasy play.

Finding good sources of stolen bases this late in the season is often difficult. However, Young is owned in just one percent of ESPN standard leagues as of this writing. You need to determine how well he will fit in with your current roster given his lack of power and your other middle infield options. With the stolen base category generally tight in most standard leagues, one extra burner can often mean a few points in the standings. If you play in a head-to-head league, Young might be a player to consider stashing away for matchup purposes if you think you might be light in thefts in the playoffs. It looks like he's going to continue to get playing time, and more importantly, look to run every feasible chance he gets, making him an intriguing play down the stretch.

799

Bh
ID: 426111516
Sun, Aug 22, 2010, 21:57

I have sent Stanton down. Hopefully the Marlins take the hint.

800

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Mon, Aug 23, 2010, 00:04

799: You know you need a commish to do that, right? Now he has no salary on him and if he's ineligible, you've lost him. He has to be on a team to get a salary put on him.

801

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Mon, Aug 23, 2010, 10:28

Wait. What's the exact proper process? If I post here and have to wait for the salary, I am held back from immediately making the move I want to make. Is that how you're supposed to send someone down?

802

Great One
ID: 2275057
Mon, Aug 23, 2010, 14:49

I love being able to leave myself notes in Yahoo, do they have that on CBS and I'm missing it? I find it useful to remind myself things. I know you can send notes to someone else, but its not that same as the "note to self" thing I constantly update.

803

Tosh
Leader
ID: 057721710
Mon, Aug 23, 2010, 16:51

GO - It ain't the prettiest, but you CAN send a note to yourself at CBS.

804

Great One
ID: 2275057
Tue, Aug 24, 2010, 08:41

Yeah, i did that... but agreed its not a great system.

805

darkside
Achiever
ID: 3590317
Tue, Aug 24, 2010, 18:56

RE: 801. Yes. That's my understanding anyway (as in my post 383). I would think a posting like that here would trump any pickup on the CBS page and they can likely get that guy into your lineup. But, that's just my take....a commish is obviously a better source.

806

beastiemiked
ID: 10432914
Tue, Aug 24, 2010, 19:46

I always assumed if you posted here it's fine. It's not like someone could immediately pickup a prospect that is dropped/sent down.

807

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Wed, Aug 25, 2010, 09:43

Stras optioned out.

Prospects: Everything is spelled out in the rules about our procedures. There are several issues that may arise. Rather than going through all of them, it would help if a commish could add a salary first. Also if he is no longer prospect-eligible and you cut him on your own, he is lost. If you request him to be sent out a, commish would deny that request and remove him from the prospect list but keep him on your team for you to decide what to do.

808

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Wed, Aug 25, 2010, 11:43

If he's no longer prospect eligible and you cut him, how would you ever keep him?

Also, I think it's fairly unacceptable to wait even one second for a commish to do anything; that process prevents you from making the immediate move and even allows the commish to scour the waiver wire for who you might intend to pick up. Since the dropped player goes on waivers anyway, it should be absolutely fine to drop a guy and post here.

809

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Wed, Aug 25, 2010, 12:11

blue hen, far be it for you to follow any procedure. Do whatever you want, but any unintended consequences will fall squarely on your shoulders--including losing your prospect to someone else. I and other commishs aren't on here 24/7 and while that could certainly cause someone to have to wait a few, it could also save your prospect. No one has EVER made an issue out of this or lost a player they wanted because of it in the past.

810

Species
ID: 217501414
Wed, Aug 25, 2010, 12:55

In a vacuum hen is right...it's far from perfect to be reliant upon a Commish to process a transaction....but our somewhat unique prospect rules and the limitations of CBS force us to use this antiquated method......so deal with it.

I think we all have had our fill of CBS, with the 1st game roster lockdowns being a ridiculous nuisance. If there is any way a real site can accommodate our prospects and other rules I'm sure we'd get a unanimous vote to change.

My favorite part of hen's post is the accusation of a Commish scouring the waiver wires to figure out who you want to pick up. Thanks buddy.....geez

811

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Wed, Aug 25, 2010, 13:23

That was my favorite part too. It was actually directed at you, Species. I mean, how the hell else can you be in first by 20 points?

812

Great One
ID: 2275057
Wed, Aug 25, 2010, 15:18

I don't see what the big deal is with prospects, we have 5 prospects each in the Poli league on Yahoo and everyone just doesn't pick each others prospects up. There is a list in the commish notes and we police ourselves. And there are even more prospects in the FA pool cause they don't have callups.

We could keep a rules page in a Rotoguru thread if it doesn't all fit on the league homepage.

I'm obviously for a switch to Yahoo or ESPN as I'm sure most are. I can't see myself dealing with CBS another season.

813

Species
Dude
ID: 07724916
Thu, Aug 26, 2010, 00:20

I am going to have a bonanza of keeper-quality players next year. Get your place in line for these strong players:

The "You never say untouchable, but if someone was untouchable this guy would pretty much be massively untouchable, much moreso than Eliot Ness" list:

Felix Hernandez: It would take an amazing offer to snag him from me. Considering that I don't have an issue with number of keepers, I just don't see myself getting swayed.

The pretty hard/almost impossible to trade but I could be convinced list:

Adrian Gonzalez is a top 5 1b in his absolute prime, and only 1 more year from free agency and leaving Petco Purgatory
Mark Teixeira is the #3 hitter on the best offense in baseball, which also happens to be my favorite team.
Mariano Rivera is the best closer in baseball history

The All-Stars not quite at the absolute height of their powers but still studly enough to be a cornerstone for any team list:

Alex Rodriguez is still a top 3b in the game, hitting cleanup in the strongest offense in baseball in a favorable ballpark.

Victor Martinez struggled with injuries this year but is still a top 3 catcher in the game hitting in the middle of a strong Boston lineup with a very favorable ballpark.

Carlos Beltran is healthy and getting his stroke back. While he's unlikely to be the speed demon from the past, he's still the cleanup hitter in a Mets lineup that is ready to surge upon the health of Beltran, Reyes, etc and he's still only 33.

B.J. Upton is an enigma. Supremely talented and a big tease. It's impossible to predict what he will do from 1 season to the next. What he is for sure is a 40+ SB guarantee, and still only 26 years old.

The significant up-and-coming, stud-approaching players:

Kelly Johnson has broken out in Arizona. ANYONE in this league could use a 2b projected to put up stats of .367 OBP, 24 HR, 72 runs, 93 runs and 14 SB!!

Alexei Ramirez is a top 10 SS easily, on pace for 18 HR, 69 RBI and 89 runs scored.

Andres Torres took over the leadoff spot for the Giants and is on pace for a .367 OBP, 16 HR, 70 RBI, 93 run, and 29 SB season! Those are top 20 OF numbers!

The solid 2nd starters for your team list:

Ryan Dempster is on pace for 15 wins and has a 3.42 ERA and a 1.25 WHIP. Strong numbers for any team.

Brett Myers has enjoyed a serious comeback on the heels of simply being healthy. The wins aren't anything to write home about but he's got great ratios at 3.08 ERA and 1.24 WHIP and on pace for 180 strikeouts.

It's never too early to talk trade for 2011!! Don't be left behind !! :)

814

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Thu, Aug 26, 2010, 19:28

Looking to trade Trevor Cahill. He's great, but I already have Santana and Price. Would trade one of my hitters (except Braun, Choo, Andrus, and Stanton) with Cahill for a better hitter.

815

beastiemiked
ID: 10432914
Fri, Aug 27, 2010, 01:08

I understand Species has this thing pretty well sewn
up but posting potential offseason trades twice in
the past week? Time for a collapse of epic
proportions.

816

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Fri, Aug 27, 2010, 12:36

Stras needs Tommy John. Out for like 18 months. The hits keep on coming! At least he's still a prospect.

817

Species
ID: 217501414
Fri, Aug 27, 2010, 13:20

815: lol, yeah.....I've purposely not started talking trash or calling the season over to avoid any possibility of a catastrophic jinx. That said, I obviously really like my chances. Projecting things out, it seems like a "worst case" total for me is around the 160 point mark. I'm not sure if you/hen/GO have the horses to pass that mark.

I also still have categories I can improve upon, although only one or two.

I've been blessed with some breakout years and a lot of health.....which made it so I didn't have to pull a Pete-like mortgaging of the futue, as I still have my top 3 picks and some ammo to trade, too.

818

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Fri, Aug 27, 2010, 14:07

817: Yeah because the four players I traded to Pete this season are all history. I don't mind taking chances, but those sure blew up in my face!

819

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Sat, Aug 28, 2010, 19:28

Aroldis Chapman hits 105 mph

820

Peter N.
ID: 47322421
Sat, Aug 28, 2010, 19:38

Yeah, I go from penthouse to outhouse. Winning made it all worth it though! I'll be back.

821

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Sun, Aug 29, 2010, 12:51

Trade Deadline is 11:59 pm August 31st. Trades must be accepted by the teams on CBS by then.

822

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Mon, Aug 30, 2010, 09:59

Flags fly forever. It's amazing: my team has had a pretty awesome run the past few weeks - a bunch of days over .450 OBP and double digit RBIs - and Species is still WAY ahead.

I was looking at specific categories this morning, and it's going to be a tough road. In a lot of categories, I am closer to the guys behind me than ahead of me.

Of course, that's why they play em - miracles do happen.

823

beastiemiked
ID: 10432914
Mon, Aug 30, 2010, 20:46

My team is done. With injuries to Reyes, Thome, Berkman, and Stewart my hitting sucked last week. My pitching finally came back down to earth after about a month of near perfection. Plus, Morrow is being shutdown after next start.

Going to be fun trying to pick keepers. Definitely have more than 9 keepers but I won't be dealing(unless somebody hits me up with a bombastic offer) anyone until the offseason.

Congrats to Species...(hopefully this jinxes you so you don't completely run away from bh and GO)

824

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Tue, Aug 31, 2010, 15:17

Man, I remember offering a ton to try and upgrade my team at the trade deadline. The only offers coming to me now are lowball offers. Worse, I am getting offers for definite keepers. I used to offer nice picks for nonkeepers. Pete and R9 did a nice job of that last season, but yet they are paying for it this season. It sometimes comes down to are you willing to risk some picks next season to go for it this season?

825

beastiemiked
ID: 10432914
Tue, Aug 31, 2010, 15:44

I'm willing to deal with GO, bh, or Species(or anyone else for that matter) if you guys are interested in any of my guys. Guys like Posada, Venable, Berkman, Werth, Scott, Ervin Santana, Ted Lilly, Kevin Gregg, etc. can be had for relatively cheap.

826

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Tue, Aug 31, 2010, 16:54

Ref, the difference this year is that you don't have many tweeners - your guys are clearly useful or not. That's because you already traded away the guys who were tweeners earlier this season.

Which is fine - I think you made out alright, but it definitely gives you less to work with on deadline day.

827

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Tue, Aug 31, 2010, 17:52

I was not talking about me, but when you got guys offering a 10th for a keeper and their 11th or 5th and a nonkeeper for a keeper, etc., I consider that lowballing. I am not really looking to trade per se because I am not exactly sure who my keeps are, but am not trading one of my keeps unless it involves getting back a keeper.

828

beastiemiked
ID: 10432914
Tue, Aug 31, 2010, 19:20

Is it legal for me to have Jose Reyes in the starting lineup? He's not on the DL but hasn't played in a few days. More than likely if he doesn't play tonight or tomorrow I'll drop somebody for a 2nd/SS.

829

R9
ID: 2854239
Tue, Aug 31, 2010, 20:51

I didn't expect too much to happen on deadline day this year as much of the contenders made their deals already in June/July.

830

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Tue, Aug 31, 2010, 22:13

828: Yes, day to day is fine.

I'm shocked that a contender was able to trade for a closer and a nice C for a 7th/10th swap though.

831

beastiemiked
ID: 10432914
Tue, Aug 31, 2010, 22:51

Well they both aren't keepers. Actually if I would've waited about an hour I would've gotten a much better deal. Oh well, just glad I got something for them.

I commend bh and GO for continuing to compete. A lot of times the 2-4th teams just clamp up in August and refuse to make any deals to improve. I "went" for it this year but with injuries to Stewart and Reyes I saw little point in trying to compete for 2nd(since that's pretty much the highest my team could finish with Posada and Gregg).

832

Great One
ID: 367493122
Tue, Aug 31, 2010, 23:49

Gonna miss Neil Walker, at least he destroyed Dempster tonight. I reverse jinxed that into happening...

833

Bh
ID: 426111516
Wed, Sep 01, 2010, 00:50

I also want to commend bmd for sticking by the offer he agreed to even when he realized there was a better one out there. And personally, I think a 7th rounder is pretty fair for two guys he'd get nothing for. If I could have traded my spare parts for a 7th last year, I'd have jumped at it. Probably would still have done it with Parnell as late as yesterday.

Anyway, you gotta go down fighting and I'm happy with what I got.

834

Species
Dude
ID: 07724916
Wed, Sep 01, 2010, 01:06

I'm shocked that a contender was able to trade for a closer and a nice C for a 7th/10th swap though.

Uh, yeah.

Conspiracy! What did I do to you guys? lol

I do like everyone going down fighting. Hopefully I can hold on.

835

R9
ID: 2854239
Wed, Sep 01, 2010, 02:44

But its a closer and a catcher for one month, and neither are keepers. This deal is a joke in June, but makes sense today.

836

beastiemiked
ID: 10432914
Wed, Sep 01, 2010, 03:11

Species, I was serious when I wrote this:

I'm willing to deal with GO, bh, or Species(or anyone else for that matter) if you guys are interested in any of my guys. Guys like Posada, Venable, Berkman, Werth, Scott, Ervin Santana, Ted Lilly, Kevin Gregg, etc. can be had for relatively cheap.

If I had a few more hours pretty sure GO and I would've came down with another deal. Couple of those guys would've looked good on your squad.

I look at my deal with bh as a bonus. I didn't think either GO or bh would be pulling off deals but both were shopping big time today. That's a great sign for this league. Hopefully it'll carry onto hoops and football.

837

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Wed, Sep 01, 2010, 09:52

I'd love to have had Werth on my team - I think he's going to finish strong. But, as we keep harping on, I've got no room at the Outfield Inn. Outside of that, I was also trying to get Papelbon, but he was going to be too rich.

I managed to get three saves last night: Uehara, Gutierrez, Lyon. Sure didn't expect that to be happening during Hanrahan-gate.

838

Great One
ID: 084217
Wed, Sep 01, 2010, 11:48

So when is the trade deadline? on the main page it says August 31st, but in the rules it says 11:59 pm EST on 9/1/10.

839

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Wed, Sep 01, 2010, 11:55

Look in the text of the rules. It's August 31, but the deadline is later to make sure trades are able to go through. Or so it says.

840

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Wed, Sep 01, 2010, 14:37

Looks like Snyder is actually starting on his last day on my team. It's a miracle.

841

Great One
ID: 084217
Wed, Sep 01, 2010, 15:13

Yeah, I always try and start guys before they leave my squad since they usually stick it to me... Walker proving that true again with his 4th HR in 5 games.

842

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Wed, Sep 01, 2010, 15:14

839: BH read the rules!!!!!!!!!!! OMG!!! Heart Attack!!! ;)

All trades are cancelled once the trade deadline hits--even pending deals that have been agreed to. So even though the trade deadline has passed, we had to keep the deals. If you make a trade now, it won't matter because CBS will wipe it off tonight.

A 7th for a 10th is not even worth much. BH is getting a huge help now for what? To fall back from a 7th to a 10th? Two starting players. I think that's a lot for little return and I'm being totally objective here. Subjectively, it's great for me.

GO also gets players who can help him greatly for guys he wouldn't have been able to keep and doesn't have to give up draft picks. Perhaps GO might be able to keep one of them??? All I'm saying, normally when managers try to improve for a title run, it hurts a little bit.

843

Great One
ID: 55855114
Wed, Sep 01, 2010, 15:59

Yeah, I kind of regret giving up so much young talent but I couldn't keep them anyway. I definitely overpaid to buy 5-7 saves, closers are pretty much worthless at this point. Since Capps probably won't even have a job next season. Or next week. Who knows.

I actually feel I got worse valued players at all 3 positions... but did it to try and squeeze a couple points out of a specific categories - Saves.

844

Great One
ID: 55855114
Wed, Sep 01, 2010, 16:07

And it does hurt, cause nobody is gonna buy ancient Podsednik or Garland from me, Capps will be kicked to the curb... but young guys like Tabata (22 year old hitting over .300 with projected 35 steals full season), Walker (24 year old .306 hitting 2B who projects to 20 HR and 100 RBI over a full season) and Clayton Richard (26, plays in SDG, 12-6 3.45 ERA) --- folks in a keeper league might want to invest in those guys and I could probably have sold for a draft pick swap pre-draft.

I rode them up the standings this year, and now with a good year under their belt - I imagine they'll be even better.

845

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Wed, Sep 01, 2010, 16:21

Right, that's what I meant. That's why the deadline is 9/1 instead of 8/31. We made it in time.

We can certainly do a little game theory with these two trades. If BMD keeps Gregg and Posada, he rides out the season and then loses them. Instead, he tried to get SOMETHING for them rather than nothing. A 7th rounder is hardly chopped liver - last year's 7th round included Kerry Wood (projected closer), Gaby Sanchez (likely ROY), Seth Smith, Cliff Pennington, Russell Branyan, Delmon Young and Carl Pavano. That's a lot better than the dreck of the 10th round. He HAD to make this deal, and that gave me a lot of leverage.

For Goatlocker, it's a little different. He has to keep Walker, Tabata, or Richard to retain value, and personally I'd keep Capps over all three. But there's potential here, and he wasn't going to get anything for Garland, either now or over the winter.

846

R9
ID: 2854239
Wed, Sep 01, 2010, 17:33

Yeah, I either really like or really hate GL's side of this depending on how deep his keeper list is. If it was only 6 or 6 deep, Tabata/Walker make solid 8th-9th keeper types.

Capps is either a 8th-9th keeper or a last round draft choice depending entirely on where he lands/his role next year. Not a fun roulette to play, and I'd rather have the Pitt youngsters.

847

Great One
ID: 55855114
Wed, Sep 01, 2010, 17:48

R9 - Cliff does have a thin keeper selection - like 6-7 solid keepers plus guys like Tejada, Johnny Damon on the fringe... so he's be much better off to keep any of those 3 over him - I'm thinking nobody watches the Pirates or something :) but I thank them for playing a large part of where I got this season.

and I know he has seen how good Clayton Richard has been all year too.

As far as Capps roulette - exactly my point. Lock up some young guys who are showing the ability to produce while you can. Not after the fact. He has Ryan Franklin already so that can be his average closer keeper.

848

Great One
ID: 55855114
Wed, Sep 01, 2010, 17:49

and from his perspective I would do that trade 1000 times over...

849

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Wed, Sep 01, 2010, 19:30

845: I disagree. You don't pay for them, you don't get the boost to your push to try and move up the standings. You never know if Gregg could end up being a keeper or not for someone until we see how next season shakes out. That may have been a better deal than what you offered me for Marmol though.

850

GoatLocker
Leader
ID: 060151121
Wed, Sep 01, 2010, 21:28

I thought it worked out well for me.
Too far back to do any good this season.
Bankrupted next season for this one.
Getting young is good and will help in the future.

And yes, will keep 1,2,or all 3

851

beastiemiked
ID: 10432914
Thu, Sep 02, 2010, 00:36

I tried super hard to trade Ryan Franklin before last year's keeper deadline and nobody was even remotely interested. Maybe bh will find a suitor for Gregg. I personally felt that my ability to flip my throwaways wasn't good enough to sell someone on Gregg who might not even be a closer next year. Hell, I couldn't even get 1 trade offer(not even a 7th for a 10th) for Ryan Franklin last year and he plays for a much better team and has had much better success as a closer.

Holding onto players that you are 99% sure you won't get anything for in the offseason is really wishful thinking if someone is offering you something now.

I love these little small trades. Peter, Toral, R9 and a few others have done a lot of work this summer despite being very far out of contention. That's what makes this league special. Guys being active and turning their teams around.

852

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Thu, Sep 02, 2010, 10:03

Yeah. Too bad Pete wasted his second rounder to get a pick in this year's draft. Of course, that's better than last year when he traded his 4th rounder for Ian Snell. But flags fly forever.

If a 7th rounder is so useless, will you give me yours, Ref? I'll give you my 8th rounder in return.

853

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Thu, Sep 02, 2010, 10:19

Wow, the Stanton watch is at 255 right now. I've been clinging to hope he'd stay under 300, especially when he got benched last week. But after the fight last night, Gaby Sanchez probably gets suspended, which means PT for Stanton. Anybody got a tire iron?

854

Peter N.
ID: 684719
Thu, Sep 02, 2010, 10:24

Yeah, I thought I could compete coming into the year so wanted to get into the 3rd round. OOPS. Only good thing is that the player I got with bh's pick last year(Ordonez) was dealt for a 4th. I look at it as a 2nd for a 4th to make myself feel a little better about it. :-)

855

beastiemiked
ID: 10432914
Thu, Sep 02, 2010, 13:44

The trade pick swap for Luke Scott was my 6th round pick for Toral's 10th round pick. In the rules it just says "bmd's th round pick for Toral's 10th."

856

beastiemiked
ID: 10432914
Thu, Sep 02, 2010, 13:45

Also, my roster is illegal because of the trade. I still get points for today right?

857

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Thu, Sep 02, 2010, 22:00

Gotta put this one here:

This is my kinda grandma. Get smacked in the face with a foul ball, gets up and gets the next couple.

858

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Fri, Sep 03, 2010, 13:30

852: Wow that's about the same offer than you sent me for Marmol.

I traded my 2nd and 4th to Pete this year for nothing. I have cut three of the four players and the 4th one is out for the season. He may be out of baseball or out of a job too, but holding him in case. What's funny is that I was tied for first when I made the deal and faltered immediately after (not all because of that deal as my team should be the face of the Red Cross this season). Sometimes you have to go with your gut and take a chance. Not all your deals are going to work out, but I'd rather go down trying than to stay the course. Pete keeps apologizing to me, but that is utter nonsense, he has nothing to be sorry about.

855: Sorry typo, I will fix. Thanks for the heads up!

856: It is your responsibility to field an active and legal lineup. I'm a little surprised you didn't take them out of your lineup and replace them--but then I see you don't even have a C on your roster. It can be difficult at times for someone to get to their team in time. I can't even go back and make your lineup legal w/o adding a C retroactively.

With that being said, I have turned off the "auto getting 0 for illegal lineups" for this league when we added prospects. CBS counts your roster as illegal if you've ever had anyone on your team who then gets a salary added. Also, your team did not gain any kind of advantage by not having a C in your lineup that day. Ps don't have to be in your lineup as long as you have 6 able bodied Ps on your team. For this situation, those two roster spots you had open (21 players instead of 23) could have been a C and P who you picked up and put in your lineup but didn't get into the game.

859

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Fri, Sep 03, 2010, 13:40

Now, if you are going over the roster limit, you do need to get legal before the freeze. Get dropped players out of your starting lineup and email the commishs if you can't get to your team. Most drop them before the trade processes.

860

Great One
ID: 28833311
Fri, Sep 03, 2010, 13:48

I think Marmol is much more valuable than Gregg or Capps though... so you are right in wanted higher picks and/or younger players for potentially moving him.

861

blue hen
ID: 266191021
Fri, Sep 03, 2010, 20:04

Perhaps you misunderstood my offer in 852. You give me your 7th. I give you my 8th. That's it. No Marmol involved. Since 7th rounders are worthless, I'm sure you'll take it.

The trade with Pete is different. You traded for players, and it didn't work out. I'm sure PD feels the way about the Konerko deal. Or even my own - I traded Valverde and the centerpiece was a draft pick that became Scott Sizemore, who I dropped. Guess I'd rather have Valverde.

862

R9
ID: 2854239
Sat, Sep 04, 2010, 10:41

I kept trying to trade him back to you, but you insisted on keeping that .230 hitter. :p

863

Ref
ID: 267432517
Sat, Sep 04, 2010, 15:39

861: nope I understood perfectly, just like you asked for marmol for nothing in return.

864

blue hen
ID: 266191021
Sat, Sep 04, 2010, 20:31

Absolutely. I love getting players for nothing. But if a 7th rounder is really nothing, then I guess I should get it back from BMD.

Ugh. I picked up Hammel for today and at the last minute decided not to start him. And he does great. James Shields, who seemed like a no-brainer, not so much.

865

Great One
ID: 367493122
Sun, Sep 05, 2010, 12:39

Great, 12 PM game means I can't get Swish out of the lineup. Thanks CBS.

866

blue hen
ID: 266191021
Sun, Sep 05, 2010, 22:51

Man. I just looked at each number in the standings - it's going to be real hard to even come close to Species. My team is doing quite well lately, but there's not a lot of ground to gain.

But I'll keep trying.

867

R9
ID: 2854239
Mon, Sep 06, 2010, 00:31

You probably should've held onto that Cargo kid. He's becoming the superstar I told you he was a shoe-in for back in June.

But in all honesty, I'm fine with my decision to keep Jason Bartlett over him this offseason. Who needs a 40-30 OF'er anyway?

868

blue hen
ID: 266191021
Mon, Sep 06, 2010, 01:20

And who did I trade him for? Oh that's right, a pitcher who left his last start. Granted, he's a keeper too.

869

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Mon, Sep 13, 2010, 15:50

Today might be the high water mark, so I wanted to post here. For a brief shining moment last night, I was up to 161.5 and Species was down to 169. That's 7.5 points out of first on September 12. Not bad.

870

Species
ID: 168131316
Mon, Sep 13, 2010, 17:13

I hope you enjoyed that bh....not sure it will get any closer. I just don't have many more categories to fall in....and just as many that I can conceivably gain in.

I will say though, the strong resolve by you and GO (in particular) was VERY impressive to get to the 160-point mark....I didn't think it would happen.

Just three more weeks boys!!

871

Species
ID: 168131316
Mon, Sep 13, 2010, 17:34

I would like to call up COL 2b Eric Young and release Javier Vasquez

872

Great One
ID: 367493122
Mon, Sep 13, 2010, 17:40

Damn, Coco is up to 32 steals now in just 2 months of games - he and Tabata moved me from the bottom of steals to the top since the ASB... but the best part is he doesn't hurt you in power like the other SB only guys.

873

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Mon, Sep 13, 2010, 17:41

Meanwhile, my RIBC team is in 10th place and my Dirty Dozen team is in 7th. But a 15 spot move in G20 is impressive. Does anyone have a list of the biggest single-season increases in G20 history?

874

Great One
ID: 367493122
Mon, Sep 13, 2010, 17:58

I finished one spot better than you last year sir, so right there with you.

875

Species
Dude
ID: 07724916
Tue, Sep 14, 2010, 01:38

I would like to call up COL 2b Eric Young and release Javier Vasquez

876

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Tue, Sep 14, 2010, 09:54

Yep, the turnaround has been significant. Does anyone have access to year-by-year standings to make such a list?

877

Great One
ID: 11845147
Tue, Sep 14, 2010, 10:13

All the years are in CBS as headers over the current standings page.

878

R9
ID: 2854239
Tue, Sep 14, 2010, 12:18

I went from 14th to 2nd. Not quite as impressive as 18th to 2nd, but then it isn't my fault I didn't suck as bad as you the year I was down and out. :p

879

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Tue, Sep 14, 2010, 13:21

875: Young called up for the first time.

880

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Tue, Sep 14, 2010, 13:24

Pete's turnaround was pretty impressive, too...

881

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Tue, Sep 14, 2010, 16:42

I was 17th last year and yes it is your fault.

882

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Wed, Sep 15, 2010, 10:32

Yeah -- CarGo is doing just great -- thanks bh. Howse Santana??

883

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Wed, Sep 15, 2010, 12:04

And don't forget about Drabek. Santana did give me some good pitching, which is exactly what I needed. And is likely a keeper for next year, although not as solidly as he was a week ago. And while I miss Cargo, I am still probably keeping five outfielders this year and had a surplus at that position.

884

Great One
ID: 548251511
Wed, Sep 15, 2010, 12:26

meanwhile on my supposedly "didn't give up anything" Old-For-Young deal Pods and Garland are already kicked to the curb... looks like Cliff turned crappy Capps into 2-3 young keepers.

885

Great One
ID: 548251511
Wed, Sep 15, 2010, 12:33

25 year old 2B Neil Walker's hitting streak ended at 18 games when he went 0-for-3 with two walks. The only rookie in franchise history with a longer streak was Jimmy Williams, with 27 games in 1899. During the streak, Walker batted .350 (28-for-80) with five home runs, six doubles, two triples and 18 RBI.

886

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Wed, Sep 15, 2010, 12:49

Hitting streaks are crap, but Walker's still a good talent, and I think he'll be a better keeper than Capps.

I was actually pretty happy when you traded for Garland. Just on the off chance that you'd actually play him.

887

Great One
ID: 548251511
Wed, Sep 15, 2010, 13:17

He's been garbage, just figured for 4-5 starts he might be ok compared to Richard... then i dropped before @COL and he has his best start since the trade. Last night was my official nail in the coffin when my fringe SP all let me down except Dickey.

888

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Thu, Sep 16, 2010, 16:55

Mike Stanton is sitting at 299 ABs. Anybody have a lead pipe?

889

Peter N.
ID: 684719
Fri, Sep 17, 2010, 08:27

RE 880: I agree, my collapse has been impressive. However, its not as impressive as you not being able to crack the top 15 since the league's inception. That's hard to do! ;-)

890

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Fri, Sep 17, 2010, 13:10

Man, I can't make up any ground. Even with 8 hitters going last night, save from Gutierrez and a gem from Sanchez...

891

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Fri, Sep 17, 2010, 13:14

#889: Heh Actually, I admired your go-for-broke style last season. You were very up-front with what you are doing, and it worked well for you.

892

Peter N.
ID: 684719
Fri, Sep 17, 2010, 23:32

PD, I'm just giving you a hard time. You're right though. I am definitely not afraid to go for it when I have the chance to win. I did the same in g20 hoops last year and I was rewarded with the title. I can only hope I don't have a collapse there as well!

893

Species
Dude
ID: 07724916
Sat, Sep 18, 2010, 13:05

It's got to be frustrating for blue hen to watch his team do so well, mine perform in mediocrity all month and not gain ground.........and a couple of hot days from my hitters now puts me at a high for the year.

Poor blue hen.

894

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Sun, Sep 19, 2010, 12:00

It's all about the rings.

In fact, bh might have had a chance this year if he didn't have a personal policy of refusing to trade unless he WINS the trade. If he doesn't feel like he's getting over on you, he won't trade. If he'd actually make some win-win offers or heaven-for-bid OVERPAY for a cat he needed (like Species and GO have done at times) he might have a chance. Unfortunately, his priorities are different.

895

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Sun, Sep 19, 2010, 12:40

#894: What he said.

896

Species
Dude
ID: 07724916
Sun, Sep 19, 2010, 13:19

Ditto

897

youngroman
Donor
ID: 02934823
Tue, Sep 21, 2010, 14:08

is anyone of you able to set the lineup at CBS? I am always getting

An Error Has Occurred

We are sorry, but an error occurred while serving your request.

You can return to the CBSSports.com home page, or explore our site index for an expanded list of sports coverage.

don't even know which players I have in the lineup because I switched some of them to field a full team for yesterday.

898

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Tue, Sep 21, 2010, 14:16

That usually happens to me right before (or during) the freeze. Other than that, I can't remember seeing it at any point this year.

899

Peter N.
ID: 47844239
Thu, Sep 23, 2010, 10:44

It looks like Carlos Zambrano wants to be a keeper.

900

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Thu, Sep 23, 2010, 14:48

897: I have gotten that in the past and I simply redo the request and it works.

899: Rub more salt in the wound please. ;)

901

Species
ID: 24852319
Thu, Sep 23, 2010, 20:05

LOL Dempster.

Thank goodness I have such a lead in ERA and WHIP that his shellacking hardly moves the needle or endangers a point.

902

blue hen
ID: 266191021
Mon, Sep 27, 2010, 21:56

Oops. I figured after the Maholm pickup that I wanted to get Kyle Davies for today. Oops.

903

Great One
ID: 44838297
Wed, Sep 29, 2010, 09:15

Don't you love when a gut feeling works out? I had a feeling Smoak would stick it to his old team. So I throw him out there for the heck of it and he smacks 2 HR's. Love that stuff.

904

Species
ID: 288363017
Thu, Sep 30, 2010, 18:36

Please send down Rockies 2b/OF Eric Young and pick up StL OF Allen Craig.

Thanks.

905

blue hen
ID: 198163020
Thu, Sep 30, 2010, 21:16

Tight battle for second place. I thought I was donzo after last night, but it comes back around sometimes. Best of luck, GO.

906

Great One
ID: 367493122
Thu, Sep 30, 2010, 23:34

I vote we declare Species ineligible cause we are better looking and this is the real battle for the championship.

907

blue hen
ID: 266191021
Fri, Oct 01, 2010, 00:14

I don't profess to be better looking than anyone, although I might make an exception in this case.

908

Species
Dude
ID: 07724916
Fri, Oct 01, 2010, 01:48

LOL whatever you bozos.

Jealousy is so ugly.

909

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Fri, Oct 01, 2010, 15:20

904: I JUST saw this. You have commish privs and may do this yourself. Emailing is the best way for everyone else. Looks like I was still able to get it done before freeze. Just happened to check the thread. He's on your bench so switch him by 4:30 if you want him active.

Young had 229 ABs so was eligible to be sent down as a prospect.

910

Species
Dude
ID: 07724916
Sat, Oct 02, 2010, 00:12

Ref --- no worries. I don't need Craig, I just wanted to get Young sent down now so as to be cleaner going into the offseason.

911

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Sun, Oct 03, 2010, 10:49

Reminder, the final FA/WW freeze is the last freeze of the regular season. That is scheduled to be today at 1:05 PM ET. If there happens to be a tiebreaker, all stats would count and FA/WW pickups would be extended to the freeze of the first game (likely tomorrow).

912

blue hen
ID: 266191021
Sun, Oct 03, 2010, 22:54

And there it is! The 2010 season is in the books. Final standings:

1. Species 174
2. Blue Hen 158.5
3. Great One 155
4. Ref 142.5
5. BMD 135
6. Goatlocker 129.5

Thanks everyone for a great season. I especially want to congratulate Species on a dominating victory and Great One on a hard fought battle. Also need to call out Goatlocker for a fairly awesome turnaround from last year. And thanks Commishes as well.

For my team, here are some awards:
- MVP: Jose Bautista
- Best keepers: Shin Soo Choo, David Price
- Best endgame keeper: Jonathan Sanchez
- Worst keeper: Russell Martin
- Best draft picks: Jose Bautista, Carlos Gonzalez, Trevor Cahill
- Worst draft picks: Scott Sizemore, Nick Johnson
- Best draft strategy #1: drafting both Lindstrom and Lyon
- Best draft strategy #2: trading Pete 2010 picks for 2011 picks
- Best trade: Daric Barton and Octavio Dotel for Paul Konerko
- Best FA pickup: Koji Uehara
- Best category: saves (league record, also won wins and homers)
- Best position: outfield
- Worst position: second base

Let the trading season begin! Matt Kemp is on the block!

913

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Mon, Oct 04, 2010, 09:50

I noticed some players have been removed from my team, per post 911. However, it seems like the players they replaced should be added back (essentially reverting my roster to the last freeze). Not that it affect much, but those players are Gutierrez, Burres, Bergeson, and O'Sullivan.

914

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Mon, Oct 04, 2010, 10:56

913: So let me get this straight...You want to drop a player and use your player for Sunday's game. Then get that player back to possibly keep and have a 24 man roster? Sorry. Though I think you have a former prospect that will be added to your team that will allow you to go over the 23 man roster I guess.

I'm ecstatic I ended up so high. I believe 4th place is the lowest I've ever finished, but had by far my worst team ever. I can't even count how many of my players were lost for the season. I got rid of the ones I had no chance of keeping. Traded others trying to improve my team w/o success. It takes a lot more time managing a team that lacks in so many areas, but it finished strong. Others made some great moves too and made it tough.

Species finally has his title after the long rebuild of a few years ago. BH made a nice run and GO did too. Slizz and GL also turned their team around. BMD was also solid as usual. There are several really good teams outside the top 6 who looks like they could make some serious noise moving forward.

Congrats on another good season!

915

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Mon, Oct 04, 2010, 11:07

No - I picked up players after the Sunday freeze to use in Monday's game. However, it later turned out that there was no Monday freeze. It seems fairly obvious to me that the roster should automatically revert to where it was for the Sunday freeze.

If that's not acceptable, the next best alternative would be to leave the post-freeze moves valid, and add the four since-removed players back to the roster.

916

Toral
ID: 1294825
Mon, Oct 04, 2010, 11:45

Congratulations to Species on winning the championship. No stone was left unturned in going for the victory.

Congratulations to bluehen as well on finishing second. With your trades for draft picks last year and a very methodical draft you put yourself in a position to contend.

Congratulations to Great One, Ref, bmd and GoatLocker for finishing in the money. Now comes 6 months not having to think "Cripes, what is the freeze time today?"

917

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Mon, Oct 04, 2010, 11:55

bh, I don't think you get it.

You drop Gut for Bergesen before the 1:05 pm freeze on Sunday. You used Bergesen in the game on Sunday.

10/03/10 12:59 pm ET Blue Hen Bergesen, Brad SP BAL - Added
Gutierrez, Juan RP ARI - Dropped
10/3/10

Then after the freeze, you dropped Bergesen and now you want both of them back and to go to a 24 man roster. Not going to happen. Not like he was a keeper anyhow and obviously none of the four are keepers in your mind anyhow as you were willing to drop them.

Your three roster moves after the freeze were reversed.

918

beastiemiked
ID: 10432914
Mon, Oct 04, 2010, 12:05

Congrats to Species and everyone else that finished in the money.

Wish I could've been a better manager in September but have been really busy. This has been the 1st time ever that I thought I may have to give up some of my fantasy teams. However, I think I can manage and if my teams don't get the TLC their used to then it's not the end of the world.

919

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Mon, Oct 04, 2010, 13:08

Alright, it's fine now. I was mistaken about Gutierrez. I meant that Burres, Bergeson and O'Sullivan should be added back. Which they have been. All set now. Either way, I don't think any of them were keepers to begin with - just trying to get the roster straight.

920

GoatLocker
Leader
ID: 060151121
Mon, Oct 04, 2010, 13:39

Great season all.
Congrats to Species.
Also to GO, BH, ref, BMD

Just couldn't keep it going with the injuries, but sure did feel that I tried.

Will have a ton of tough decisions to make.
Worst move I made was not keeping Konerko after having had him so long.

921

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Mon, Oct 04, 2010, 17:46

Congrats to the "winners". Thanks for letting me in this year -- it was a steep learning curve -- I am still figuring out the long term strategy of these keeper leagues...

My goal was to get to 100 points (only got to 90 -- BA = 48, P = 42) and to have more than half of the winners points (90/174 -- DONE!). Have decent pitching and did trades, etc to improve hitters.

Best move - dumping Pujols and gettting CarGo, Q, Leake and Cecil -- think that will really help down the road.

Saves - came in 3rd using essentially 2 guys (Wilson/48 and Soriano/45)
WHIP - wanted it to be under 130 -- got to 1.2848 using MR guys (Venters, Rhodes, Benoit)
RBI - got to top 6 after adding CarGo and Q (and Gomes as well, Wright when he was streaking in the right direction...)

REALLY HATE THE EARLY FREEZE -- lost a bunch of stats throughout the season (mostly SP) when I forgot to do a daily check the night before. Is there any way CBS plans to fix this? They can go it game by game for football so why not here?

922

Species
Dude
ID: 07724916
Mon, Oct 04, 2010, 20:57

Thanks guys.

What a relief. R9, Tosh and Twarpy can attest to getting pissed off, frustrated emails from me questioning whether I should blow up my team. bh had that huge lead and I had MASSIVELY slow starts from Victor, Upton, Teixeira and A-Rod. These were at least partially offset by the astute drafting/pickups of Kelly Johnson, Juan Pierre, Andres Torres and Brett Myers. Once I traded for Adrian Gonzalez, all of those slow starters got the clue that they needed to pick it up, and my team rightfully took it's place as the best offense in the league.

I was proudest of the pitching stats I put up, which are, by far, G20 league records. To put up an ERA of 3.144 and a WHIP of 1.1822 were highlights for sure. While Cain (before my trade for AGonz), Felix and Myers all had stats better or in that range, my relief corps of Wagner (in particular - holy smokes did you all realize he had 104 k's in 70 innings??), Rivera and Putz all had an ERA at or under 1.50 and whips well below 1.00 for most of the year (until Putz got hurt and started struggling). Still, I have no idea how I ended up with those ratios considering how many ratio-killing starts I endured from Millwood and Lowe.

I made mostly astute trades in picking up AGonz, Ibanez (who was hot most of the last 2 months) and Beltran. Hawpe was a flop, but overall I can't complain. I was also blessed with pretty good health.....a few DL trips here and there, but nothing that kept guys out for a month or more. I was pretty lucky there.

I've got some trade bait for this offseason, along with my first 3 picks......so I'm loaded for another run in 2011!!

923

R9
ID: 2854239
Tue, Oct 05, 2010, 04:37

Congrats Species, was pretty funny how awful your offense started the year. I've seen starts like because of injuries, but you had 4-5 guys who were all healthy playing at about 50% of their career norms. If it had been Twarpy he would've rebuilt twice already by now.

Was a fun year for me, as I've never really torn down a team like that and traded/picked up so many young'ins. Was almost as much fun following their MILB stats as it was their callups. Going to have some tough decisions next year me thinks...

925

mjd
Leader
ID: 501381415
Tue, Oct 05, 2010, 04:57

Way to go Species showing us rebuilders how it's done.

926

Peter N.
ID: 3792459
Tue, Oct 05, 2010, 10:24

Congrats Species! Well done and you set yourself nicely for a repeat.

927

Great One
ID: 198353014
Tue, Oct 05, 2010, 10:55

CBS definitely will need to fix the freeze or we need to go somewhere else cause there were also dozens of times I could have had a better lineup, put a backup in for someone sitting out that day etc. and it really limited my ability to manage effectively. I think we all agree we can't continue in a league that has this.

I think carrying over 2 big time players should give me a good start next year since both Carlos Santana and Dominic Brown will be impact guys and freebie keepers. Nice to have 11 keepers basically.

I do feel this season might have gone a bit differently if Carlos could have stayed healthy, so thats a shame. But at least I can keep him for free.

I'm gonna be looking to trade either Ike Davis or Justin Smoak... and also Nick Swisher or Granderson.

I definitely had a better season then expected and actually traded Billy Wagner for Dominic to Species cause I didn't think i could compete - so it was mainly because I had a waiver wire all star squad. I got long stretches of good productive play from so many waiver wire guys it was ridiculous. Neil Walker, Jose Tabata, Alfredo Simon, Dallas Braden, RA Dickey, Brian Duensing, Carlos Carrasco, Coco Crisp (was out of his mind the 2 months he played), Ryan Raburn was out of control the second half... more I can't think of...

928

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Tue, Oct 05, 2010, 13:39

Re: CBS

Their coders or their management is not very good at all. I feel I am the one who single-handedly changed some things with them in baseball and football, i.e. correct sorting, histories, record books, and more. But there are some things they absolutely refuse to fix.

For instance, in football they refuse to code it so negative yards receive negative points. Their response, you have the tools to manually adjust those.

There are some issues in baseball too but the freeze seems to be the worst. It used to be Noon daily regardless of the first game. They have made some great strides like allowing us to set advanced lineups and other things, but the fact that they can't fix this, when they can do it for football, is plain laziness.

As I've said for years, help me find a site that will work for us and we will investigate. ESPN addressed many of my suggestions when I talked to the lead a couple seasons ago, but he admitted there is no way they could handle our prospects.

CBS refuses to look at prospects for baseball that will not count against roster limits, etc. As I have looked at sites, there was always something that would end up being a non-starter. I also hate the lineup freeze, but CBS can handle everything else. Maybe other sites have improved and we can take another stab at those. The problem is that many do not open up until we are upon the season.

929

Great One
ID: 198353014
Tue, Oct 05, 2010, 13:49

Whats the issue with the prospects? That we don't want to pick each others prospects up so we need that salary thing on there? Is that whats holding us back as far as handling of prospects elsewhere?

930

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Tue, Oct 05, 2010, 14:24

People picking up and using other's prospects. There were several prospects this season for instance who would have really helped me but their owners never called them up. Some are no longer prospects and were never called up.

931

Great One
ID: 198353014
Tue, Oct 05, 2010, 14:33

I'm surprised that BH can't get ESPN to work on something for that. Doesn't seem terribly complicated.

Yahoo - Poli league we have about 75 total prospects and we just police it, watch that we don't pick up each others prospects. I personally would rather have that small thing to monitor vs. something like this freeze time that the entire league absolutely hates.

Yahoo puts a "K" next to anyone we designate a keeper. I wonder if they couldn't do the same with a "P" logo next to prospects we designate (I just emailed them that). Or if we could just put the "K" next to our prospects.

Yahoo also has a "Can't Cut List"... why not a "Can't Add List" editable by the commish? seems simple enough. I'll see what they write back with.

932

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Tue, Oct 05, 2010, 14:34

You can't make future moves on CBS. On ESPN, you can say, I want to start Braun today, Kemp tomorrow, Braun the next day, Kemp the next day, etc. You can go out the entire season (unless you make moves).

I suggested a "Can't Add" list similar to a "Can't Drop" list - ESPN is looking at that right now.

933

Great One
ID: 198353014
Tue, Oct 05, 2010, 14:36

Yahoo also has the "Watch List" which puts a little flag next to a players name and puts them on your own private Watch List. If we all put these prospects on our Watch Lists it would be easy to track anyone who was picked up.

934

Great One
ID: 198353014
Tue, Oct 05, 2010, 14:40

Well a "Can't Add List" would certainly be useful so keep us updated on that one... then the other main thing I think Ref had concerns with was the Constitution. But I think thats something we can work around by posting it on RotoGuru, emailing it etc. The only thing that would always need to be in a Commish Note (Yahoo term) would be prospects, draft pick trades etc. Things that change. There is enough room for that in a commish note.

BH - would ESPN be able to bring over league history from the CBS league by chance? I thought I saw some sites that said they can import this data for migrating leagues and that would be a bonus.

935

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Tue, Oct 05, 2010, 18:15

[SPAM]

I'm much more comfortable spamming the G20 thread, since I've pretty much been spamming it all season. Let me know if you find this inappropriate. ESPN is looking to fill this position, a Web Developer for Mobile based in New York City. It would be great if this position could be filled by someone with Gurupie ties, but feel free to pass along anyone who has a computer science degree, a good mind, and loves sports. No, I won't trade you Matt Kemp if you find a good candidate, but it could go a long way toward getting some of the things mentioned above done.

936

darkside
Achiever
ID: 3590317
Tue, Oct 05, 2010, 19:23

Congrats, Species. You've been knocking on the door for a while, so good work getting it done this year.

My team had some bright spots, but also huge holes. I have hope for next year, but know it will be tough with so many managers setting themselves up for a competitive year.

RE: CBS. I'll simply reiterate what I've posted before. No chance are prospects worth the absurdity that is the early freeze. We have to deal with the freeze every day and prospects factor in almost never and are something we can police ourselves. Hell, we could have prospect commishes that aren't the league commishes who are simply responsible for staying on top of prospect pickups/drops. If that is all that is holding us back, I think we're fools to not move to another site with less ridiculous policies.

937

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Tue, Oct 12, 2010, 12:53

Can we get some retrospective here? Who were your best picks? Why did Species beat you? Who is available for a mid-level pick?

938

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Wed, Oct 20, 2010, 10:00

More chatter please.

939

Great One
ID: 2751238
Wed, Oct 20, 2010, 11:50

Mine is in #927

940

Species
ID: 21130412
Sat, Dec 04, 2010, 13:39

AGonz possibly to the Red Sox.....really the perfect scenario for me....I had that totally in mind when trading for him. He's significantly more valuable in Boston....I can't imagine what kind of production he'll have in that ballpark and that lineup! Boo yeah!

Casey Kelly shifts to an interesting end of the spectrum....NL...best pitchers park in baseball, with 2 other top pitching parks in the division (SF and LA). Should be interesting.

PS...awesome story on the G20 front page ;)

941

Species
Dude
ID: 07724916
Wed, Jan 05, 2011, 23:38

I have emailed Ref with some thoughts about changing websites this year. I need him to remind us of all of the reasons that we need Sportsline and can't adjust to either Yahoo or ESPN.

I am seriously considering going through the hassle of self-policing the prospect list in order to remove ourselves from the Draconian rule of Sportsline. The first game freeze is just too big of a hassle, IMO.......and the big cost does not excite me either.

Ultimately the risk is that someone picks up a prospect and plays him for a few games and gets stats they don't deserve. I would hope we would all be on the ball enough to notice it before it went more than a day.....I'd say the risk is worth it......but again, there could be a lot more to it than just that.

When the major sites open up their games, we need people to check them out and report back.

942

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Thu, Jan 06, 2011, 00:54

Well, the question then becomes: Do the other sites allow a commish to roll back a team's stats to disallow the stats from an ill-gotten player? If so, we're golden.

If not, we'll all have to keep a closer eye on things. I'm still a supporter of moving the league, despite the extra work to police prospect pickups.

943

Great One
ID: 45012311
Thu, Jan 06, 2011, 10:58

We do it in Yahoo with the Politics league and it has more prospects than this league. There were like 3 times all year that someone added a player by mistake and we caught all of them. And that league doesn't even offer the ability to call up players and use them, so there were even more prospects and rookies in the free agent pool.

944

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Thu, Jan 06, 2011, 11:54

On ESPN vs. Yahoo - do any of you have reason to believe that Yahoo is better than ESPN? Neither one has a better prospect solution, but I want to make sure you are convinced that ESPN is a better solution than Yahoo before we start deciding.

945

Great One
ID: 45012311
Thu, Jan 06, 2011, 12:05

I think it might be smarter for this particular league to go ESPN because there is a long term opportunity to get everything they way we want it. While not everything can be perfect, at least we know our voice is heard.

That said, I think Yahoo and ESPN are both high quality products and don't prefer one to other.

Is there a way to bring over standings and such from CBS and have that history imported somehow? Otherwise we can just archive it on a website or something, but that would be a bonus to convert us.

946

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Thu, Jan 06, 2011, 12:13

Not sure about importing, but it's noted that leagues want a place to house their history. One thing CBS did well was house the constitution.

947

Judy
ID: 54203110
Sat, Jan 15, 2011, 08:13

Well, there go my saves stats now that soriano will be a set up man for the Yankees -- Yankees must be feeling really desperate these days...what a dumb signing.

948

Species
Dude
ID: 07724916
Tue, Jan 18, 2011, 00:45

I'm itchin' to make a trade

949

Guru
ID: 330592710
Wed, Jan 26, 2011, 12:19

Just got the introductory email from CBS. I assume others did as well.

The drag & drop feature for setting lineups is much better than the previous interface. However, it is disappointing that all of a player's eligible positions aren't shown anywhere on that lineup page. As far as I can tell, you have to click on a player's name (bringing up a new page) to see his position eligibility. Or else, just try to move a player into a specific slot and see if it works.

It looks like lineups will still be locked 5 minutes before the first game of the day. I'm amazed that they still haven't allowed for individual slots to lock at the gametime for each player. IMHO, regardless of any other features, that limitation makes this a second tier hosting site.

Regardless, if we plan to stay with CBS, the early bird payment deadline is Feb 8. Cost is $150 prior that that deadline, and $180 after.

950

Great One
ID: 35053199
Wed, Jan 26, 2011, 12:44

Paying 150 bucks each year and they can't fix the freeze? when there are good competitors who are absolutely free and have the proper freeze? Wow. Screw CBS.

I am amazed they finally got drag/drop capability... of course based on your review that has some problems too.

951

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Wed, Jan 26, 2011, 13:11

Might as well move to a free site and give $150 to the commish for his time in policing for prospect pickups.

952

StLCards
Dude
ID: 31010716
Wed, Jan 26, 2011, 14:27

FWIW, the "introductory price" deadline is almost always extended, so you probably have more time to think about other sites without facing any penalty if you do stay with CBS.

953

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Wed, Jan 26, 2011, 15:24

We probably need to archive everything we have asap.

All rosters and rules need to be saved. I have gotten a LOT of people telling me they no longer want CBS. But man it is going to be a lot of work trying to track things--not to mention figuring out what to do for those who pick up and play prospects they don't even own.

954

Toral
ID: 3411172119
Wed, Jan 26, 2011, 15:49

Yahoo, ESPN...any other alternative candidates.

As for policing prospects...how 'bout the first person who notices a wrongly picked up prospect gets $5. There won't be 30 of them in a season.

955

Great One
ID: 10142615
Wed, Jan 26, 2011, 16:14

Brilliant, pay the police! or make people pay 5 bucks for incorrectly adding them... you just need that list handy somewhere like Commish Notes etc (which is how it is in Poli league) so if a guy is questionable you can doublecheck it.

Obviously I know Vlad Guerrero and Livan Hernandez are not somebodies prospects. But if I am picking up a guy who is a rookie, I can take 7 seconds and doublecheck him.

956

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Wed, Jan 26, 2011, 18:39

species (#948) with me for Soriano??

957

R9
ID: 2854239
Wed, Jan 26, 2011, 21:55

Its amazing that CBS would take the time to redo their entire site, and STILL not allow game-time lineup changes.
regardless of any other features, that limitation makes this a second tier hosting site.
I agree completely. When I saw they had redone their site, and saw something about minor league players, I thought they might just have done enough to keep our business. But PAYING to get less just isn't going to happen. ESPN and Yahoo have caught up alot in the player pool database, which was the reason we went with CBS way-back-when.

958

R9
ID: 2854239
Wed, Jan 26, 2011, 21:57

I like the policing idea too. Charging someone who picks up a prospect 5$ and handing it to the person who noticed seems appropriate. Won't break anyone's pockets, and will probably remind anyone not to do it again.

959

mjd
Leader
ID: 501381415
Wed, Jan 26, 2011, 23:28

Its amazing that CBS would take the time to redo their entire site, and STILL not allow game-time lineup changes.
That's just ridiculous and they don't deserve our business.

Does Yahoo still max out at 4 teams per account in each sport? If so, I'm maxed out. I've used 2 different accounts to have more than 4 teams and it sucks switching back and forth to check line ups to make last minute changes. I really want to keep all 5 teams, so unless Yahoo allows more than 4 teams per account, it's just another reason for me to hope we use ESPN, given a choice.

960

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Thu, Jan 27, 2011, 10:17

I love the charging offenders idea. As long as we're not charging when someone accidentally leaves a roster slot open.

Seriously, is anyone terribly opposed to ESPN?

961

Toral
ID: 3411172119
Thu, Jan 27, 2011, 10:40

I haven't played ESPN in a while. Is there a way I can "test-drive" their baseball game?

962

Great One
ID: 10142615
Thu, Jan 27, 2011, 10:59

As I've said before, I'm in favor of ESPN for this particular league just because we have someone listening to us there so at least we know our voice is heard even if they can't get everything perfect just yet. I'd rank my preference 1. ESPN 2. Yahoo and be fine with either. Both great products.

963

Species
ID: 711122010
Thu, Jan 27, 2011, 11:42

I'm secretly glad CBS still sucks ass. I'm tired of their product. Ref....it's obvious the groundswell to make a change is large enough this year for us to do it. Can you outline what other factors, if any, are out there that CBS has that we must overcome besides prospects??

With Guru's blessing, there is no reason why we can't successfully house our constitution here on the boards in the Standings Forum and update as often as necessary. No, not as clean perhaps as CBS, but accessable, safe and reliable. We can archive our historical standings there as well.

While I share your concern over more Commish work, I think you'd agree that there is a core of managers here that would assist with the management of the prospect list....or we institute the self-policing penalty being discussed. I really believe we can make it work.....save $150 and get a better product.

Judy #956 -- From your persoective, I'd try to look at the Soriano singing as a blessing in disguise....now you have an extra keeper spot for one of those stud starters Leake and Cecil ;)

964

Nerfherders
ID: 347242717
Thu, Jan 27, 2011, 11:51

Would love to break into this league if there's an opening this season. Thanks!

965

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Thu, Jan 27, 2011, 16:08

Keith Law's Top 100 came out today.

1. Trout; 2. Harper; 3. Brown; 4. Montero; 5. Hosmer. No surprises, really.

Others of note:
9. Shelby Miller
13. Kyle Drabek
14. Jeremy Hellickson
15. Aroldis Chapman
20. Desmond Jenning
21. Michael Pineda
23. Mike Moustakas
34. Jarred Cossart
36. Zack Wheeler
39. Lonnie Chisenhall
43. Freddie Freeman
61. Mike Minor
80. Chris Carter (OAK)
82. JP Arencibia
97. Jake McGee
-. Tim Beckham (not even in team's top 10)

966

Tosh
Leader
ID: 057721710
Thu, Jan 27, 2011, 16:20

Here's a Top-50 prospect list that you don't need to pay for ...

967

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Thu, Jan 27, 2011, 16:33

I will have to look, but a couple years ago I was ready to recommend to the league that we go to ESPN but there were a couple issues preventing in--mainly prospects. Since that time, Yahoo has upgraded their commish control.

I think ESPN hoops has actually gotten a smidge worse as far as finding things at times--but I like ESPN better than yahoo or NBA which we had used previously (before the yahoo upgrade).

CBS really pisses me off because they refuse to do the most intuitive fixes. They could be the greatest site in fantasy sports but simply refuse to listen to the most basic issues of fantasy gameplay. All the glamor and glitz resulting in relatively nothing for us is frustrating.

There are two "fixes" in baseball and football every season since we started. 1. Make the lineups a gametime lock (5 mins) in baseball like the do in football and 2. Count negative yards gained in football. They refuse. They have a minor leaguers or taxi squad for football which would work for baseball but won't do it. They also won't make minor leagues not count against the rosters in baseball. I am done asking them. Football is going to be much harder to leave, but I am so tired of them and CBS is MUCH better than MFL still.

Still, I told them they would lose our business if they didn't wake up to reality and change the lineup freeze to 5 mins before gametimes liek they do in Football.

As far as fees and fines...I don't know. Need to think it through--but good luck collecting money after the season.

The site we go to needs to have the ability for a commish to change lineups retroactively and have multi commishes, etc. I think that's why ESPN was ahead of yahoo. Really need the 2011 ESPN site to come up to see what they have that we can work with. Those of you who currently commish an espn or yahoo league please pipe up.

968

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Thu, Jan 27, 2011, 16:53

Ref, I don't see how CBS could possibly be considered anything better than third best. This is going to be my fourth year using them, and they haven't ever gotten even the silver in my book. And that's without even talking price.

Let me know what's hard for you to find on ESPN NBA. Finding stuff is easy to fix.

There are no major structural changes for ESPN this year. FantasyCast will be better, but no taxi squad or anything. The cell phone experience will remain better than Yahoo and you'll once again be able to offer/reject trades and make and cancel waiver claims on your phone.

And, unlike Yahoo, you'll be able to drop a player after he's frozen for the day. On ESPN, it just takes him off your next day's roster. On Yahoo, he's frozen and you can't get rid of him until the next day.

969

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Thu, Jan 27, 2011, 17:49

The espn trading feature was nerfed and the email client is absolutely horrid now for ESPN. That needs to be fixed asap. Not sure why you can't respond via email sent via ESPN now. Used to be able to do so.

970

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Thu, Jan 27, 2011, 19:02

#965

Make everyone pre pay the 2012 membership dues and use it for the "Fines" fund. Deduct a fee from a team that messes up. Any team that is good, has their 2012 dues paid already (although they would need to prepay their 2013, etc)...

971

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Fri, Jan 28, 2011, 09:10

Thanks Ref. I'll give a closer look. Can you be more specific about trading? I can't imagine that you would find ESPN's trading system, where you can see player stats and information all in one place harder to use than CBS, which offers you a dropdown (and have to hit control for multiple players) on a separate page. Am I missing something?

972

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Fri, Jan 28, 2011, 11:53

bh, after taking a season off, I had to ask someone how to propose a trade. That was after being so stubborn that I kept looking on my own for a couple days. Just is not as intuitive now as it used to be--but now that I know where to look, it is fine.

The email issue really needs fixed though. It used to work properly.

973

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Fri, Jan 28, 2011, 12:58

Yeah, I thought it did work that way. I'll investigate.

974

beastiemiked
ID: 51029311
Mon, Jan 31, 2011, 02:29

Anything but CBS. I'd pay double to not use them.

Pretty sure I'm in for this year. I've slowly been cutting back fantasy sports through the years and now my wife and I have a boy due in April. Would love to take the year off but I know I'd regret giving up my team.

975

Species
Dude
ID: 07724916
Mon, Jan 31, 2011, 14:24

bmd and any others with increased time restraints.......don't forget the option of adding a partner and teaming up.

976

Species
Dude
ID: 07724916
Mon, Jan 31, 2011, 22:05

I have taken the liberty of putting our constitution and our historical standings into threads in the Standings forum. The annual categorical standings don't translate well into the forum.....and I am too lazy to cut-and-paste into excel for posting.

977

Great One
ID: 3414219
Tue, Feb 01, 2011, 12:40

I am looking to trade an OF (Cruz, Swisher or Granderson) for comprable solid SP. I can package a couple guys and picks as well.

Also in the market for some prospects. After Carlos Santana and Dominic arrive I will have all my prospect spots open.

978

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Tue, Feb 01, 2011, 14:25

Going to have to save all rosters as well.

979

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Tue, Feb 01, 2011, 15:18

Done. Mine looks right. Please check a couple to make sure.

980

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Wed, Feb 02, 2011, 00:16

I'd also like to know by category how many points I've lost there each day live like CBS.

981

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Wed, Feb 02, 2011, 10:36

That's already in place. I am fairly certain you will enjoy the ESPN "live" experience more than the CBS one.

982

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Wed, Feb 02, 2011, 11:34

Well why isn't in place with the hoops version? Is it new? Did they fix the email problems too?

983

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Wed, Feb 02, 2011, 12:20

It's there in basketball:
http://games.espn.go.com/fba/standings?leagueId=1584&view=active

(you may need to change the league id to your own)

It lists today's points for each team in each category in chart form, just like Roto Standings. To get there, just go to your standings page and click on Real-Time (Daily Stats).

Still working on the email problem. Seems like it should be easy, but I haven't been able to track down the right person.

984

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Wed, Feb 02, 2011, 12:28

The total change is there, but I like how CBS shows you the change by each category as well as total. Right now I could be up 3 points and have to try and figure it out manually where I am up. Looks like they could easily add a red or green digit next to total in each cat.

985

darkside
Achiever
ID: 3590317
Wed, Feb 02, 2011, 20:01

I'm happy baseball is nearly back. Pitchers and catchers in less than 2 weeks!

Also, I'll add to the chorus of people in favor of a switch. I think we can figure a way around most problems presented w/ a different format. I've only used Yahoo, never ESPN, but am down with either. Just not CBS.

986

Great One
ID: 56051423
Wed, Feb 02, 2011, 20:13

You can see the changes in the individual categories in daily stats on ESPN. Categories that change are highlighted and then you just hover over them for the -1 or +0.5 etc.

987

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Thu, Feb 03, 2011, 01:08

986: Doing that now in hoops--not happenin.

re cbs: funny thing is they finally addressed that bad lineup interface.

988

Great One
ID: 3414219
Thu, Feb 03, 2011, 11:17

Not sure why yours doesn't work. Is it browser related maybe? It doesn't work right now, but obvoiusly there are no games going on so nothing is highlighted. But I definitely saw a +1 in one category and a -1 in another when I was watching last night during the games.

989

Great One
ID: 3414219
Thu, Feb 03, 2011, 11:18

and are you launching Fantasycast? that may be the reason...

990

Perm Dude -- out
ID: 0151310
Thu, Feb 03, 2011, 12:05

Works for me as well. I do wish they let me see the previous day category changes, but that's probably drilling down a little too much.

991

Great One
ID: 3414219
Thu, Feb 03, 2011, 13:13

I bet thats something BH could get implemented since the data is already there...

992

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Thu, Feb 03, 2011, 13:31

Fantasycast? What is that? We talking ESPN here?

I'm talking about live standings. CBS also has it on the same page. I love the CBS version. ESPN has it nice now too, but would like those features on ESPN, like change in each category that day from previous day as well as the total change that it does have already.

993

Great One
ID: 3414219
Thu, Feb 03, 2011, 16:04

We all launch the big grey square at the top of the ESPN page called Fantasycast... thats what you are missing when watching the live scoring. You are just on the regular standings page. This has a lot more info going on. Fire it up tonight.

994

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Thu, Feb 03, 2011, 17:25

Update: the emails are going to have to stay that way. There are some complicated privacy rules that need to be dealt with.

995

GoatLocker
Leader
ID: 060151121
Fri, Feb 04, 2011, 09:40

GOATLOCKER'S STATUS

All,
I Fell Tuesday morning on my way down the stairs missing the last two steps.
All that was holding my foot to the leg, was skin and tendons.
Am home now, but still in a ton of pain and out of it due to the pain meds.
Not looking at much Fantasy Wise right now, but am 100% up changing sites.
Sorry about that shit.

GL

996

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Fri, Feb 04, 2011, 10:10

Ouch! Get better--you've got just a couple of weeks until you've got to report for fantasy spring training...

:)

997

Great One
ID: 3414219
Fri, Feb 04, 2011, 10:24

Get better Cliff, that sounds painful.

998

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Fri, Feb 04, 2011, 10:37

GL

That sounds plain UGLY. Get well soon! Just one leg though right?

WIth the new drafting site we will probably be able to start a bit later, so you'll have some time to heal up a bit. Remember how fast the RIFC specific round Q picking went last summer? The new Kafenatid/Draftime site is awesome.

999

GoatLocker
Leader
ID: 060151121
Fri, Feb 04, 2011, 12:29

yeh, only one.
Don't know if I could have handled the pain from 2 :)

1000

R9
ID: 2854239
Fri, Feb 04, 2011, 14:30

Ouch! Keep poppin those pain meds.

1001

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Sat, Feb 05, 2011, 02:18

993: Again not intuitive. Got a chance to look at it today and it is really hard on the eyes. I prefer the basic but can click on that and at least see where I am up or down I suppose.

994: That is weird. Wonder how all the other sites are able to do it right?

995: I am sick thinking about that. Rehab on that is going to be long and painful. So sorry that happened to you man.

1002

Species
Dude
ID: 07724916
Sat, Feb 05, 2011, 12:57

Cliff - best of luck in returning to health. Yeowch!

1003

blue hen
ID: 266191021
Sun, Feb 06, 2011, 13:20

994/1001 - Technically, it's simple, and the other sites probably think they can just do it and get away with it. If you feel strongly about it, and it would cause you to go to other sites (although I think Yahoo is the same as ESPN), you should call 888-306-ESPN and see what they have to say on the matter.

1004

GoatLocker
Leader
ID: 060151121
Sun, Feb 06, 2011, 17:19

OK, trying to follow the league change issue.
What is the email problem with ESPN.
Only ESPN League I've ever played in was baseball, and don't remember a problem.
Might have also done football team with the son.

1005

Bh
ID: 426111516
Sun, Feb 06, 2011, 17:31

Oh, and get well Cliff.

1006

deepsnapper
ID: 112181
Tue, Feb 08, 2011, 02:21

<995> Cliff - was browsing the thread and saw ur post. Sorry to hear about your injury, keep the foot propped up and iced as much as possible. Believe it or not, after u get past the cold, the numbing feels pretty good (no more than 20 min tho). It's always the last couple of steps that get ya. If I can help, you've got my number.

PS: Stay off the 2nd floor. ;)

ds

1007

Toral
ID: 3411172119
Tue, Feb 08, 2011, 16:19

Yahoo! baseball is up with some new features.

" Franchises
Invite league members to manage their teams from last year

Invite new managers to run one of last year's teams

Finalize your league's team list for easier draft and keeper management
...

Draft Pick Trading
Win this year's championship or build for the future by trading players for next year's draft picks"

1008

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Tue, Feb 08, 2011, 18:15

You mean features ESPN had two years ago?

1009

R9
ID: 2854239
Tue, Feb 08, 2011, 19:07

I'm going to vote that we use Yahoo, just so that I can add me switching my vote to ESPN in any Utley trade I do with hen.

1010

GoatLocker
Leader
ID: 060151121
Tue, Feb 08, 2011, 20:09

<1006> No shit, the hospital bed is in the family room.
And I don't think I can figure out how to roll the walker up the stairs yet.

Did you get my email in answer to yours?

1011

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Wed, Feb 09, 2011, 17:43

I had been leaning toward ESPN because they had offered the better Commish and tam changing issues. But I have to say that the new Yahoo additions help. The draft pick trades is nice. Hopefully we are able to add a pick for each round listed and use that in the trade features. CBS used to offer a generic draft pick trade and took that away several years back. Also the email is better in Yahoo. Hopefully ESPN gets up quickly so we can go through and compare the two. Does Yahoo offer free live standings now?

1012

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Wed, Feb 09, 2011, 17:52

Looks like ESPN is open now too: http://games.espn.go.com/flb/welcome

SOCIAL NETWORKING
Share your fantasy team's triumphs with your friends on Facebook and Twitter.
FREE LIVE SCORING
Real-time fantasy scoring and league standings updated right into your game, free.
FULLY CUSTOMIZABLE
The most customizable free game out there. You set the rules, scoring, everything. It's fantasy baseball, your way.
AUCTION DRAFTS
Take part in an ESPN Auction Draft and bid strategically for the players you want.
FREE FANTASYCAST
Follow every pitch with ESPN FantasyCast. Drill into the game and see your players in action all season long right in the game. All for free.
EXPERT ANALYSIS
ESPN expert advice and analysis, built right into the game. Total access, totally free.
MOCK DRAFT LOBBY
Practice your strategy -- for free -- in ESPN's exclusive Mock Draft Lobby.
LIVE DRAFT LOBBY
Meet others with the same competitive spirit, join a league and start drafting right away in the Live Draft Lobby.

1013

Toral
ID: 3411172119
Thu, Feb 10, 2011, 09:16

Dustin Ackley having moved back to 2nd, with him, Beckham, and Brett Lawrie I'm overstocked with young 2Bmen, and would be interested in trading one or more for a comparable 1B or 3B with comparable age/potential.

1014

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Thu, Feb 10, 2011, 10:16

Ref: ESPN OFFERS DRAFT PICK TRADING. AND MORE IMPORTANTLY, IT'S BEEN AROUND FOR FIVE YEARS SO YOU KNOW IT WILL ACTUALLY WORK.

/yell.

Seriously, is there anything about Yahoo that is actually better? Or are you trying to determine if they are the same?

1015

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Thu, Feb 10, 2011, 10:47

Shouldn't we open a 2011 forum for these discussions?

1016

Great One
ID: 3414219
Thu, Feb 10, 2011, 11:54

Well for one I find the trading significantly simpler on Yahoo. And considering I attempt trades almost daily, its an issue. Its difficult to compare people in ESPN side by side without all the clutter of the extra guys I'm not trading. When offers are out there I often miss them or when I see "Pending Trades" that makes me think someone accepted but in reality it just a bunch of offers. But they call it pending or whatever.

The player rating thing makes things more difficult. People like "he's a top 20 player" not a 12.90 PR15 ranked player.

So thats just trading.
How about max games played chart? hoops doesn't have it brokendown by position. Which is odd. I could play a whole season without a center if I wanted.

1017

Guru
ID: 330592710
Thu, Feb 10, 2011, 12:12

I think that ESPN now allows for game limits by position. That's now a choice in the league setup.

1018

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Thu, Feb 10, 2011, 12:31

I opened an espn account yesterday and invited species. I want to compare the two and would like others to do the same.

1017: Looks like they have them broken down by positions but you have to do a little math for hitters. For Ps, I did the 1400 IPs and it says 233 per slot--but hopefully that is not the max per slot. I have not opened a Yahoo acct yet. The last time I ran a Yahoo league, it was extremely limited what we could do as a commish, but I understand that has improved significantly.

1014: where is the draft pick option because we are using ESPN for Hoops and it has not been used one time nor can I find how to add it?

The latest trade deadline is Aug 19th with ESPN. We have always done Aug 31, but to me that alone won't keep us from the site.

1019

Great One
ID: 3414219
Thu, Feb 10, 2011, 12:34

8/28 for Yahoo trade deadline.

1020

Toral
ID: 3411172119
Thu, Feb 10, 2011, 15:01

Now I remember GO, that was one of the things I didn't like about ESPN.

I did have the feeling that ESPN some imteresting features/research buried in that game somewhere, but I would only come upon this stuff by accident.

At one time ESPN was a slower site for me than Yahoo!, but Y! has slowed down appreciably in the last year and there may be no difference now.

1021

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Thu, Feb 10, 2011, 16:07

Work on additional (later) deadline dates, but can't promise anything.

If it doesn't work out, I promise that if we move to ESPN and you make me a commish, I will go in and switch the players manually between the date we get and the date we choose.

1022

Toral
ID: 3411172119
Thu, Feb 10, 2011, 19:11

Yeah, but what we're afraid of, bluehen, is that if we move to ESPN and make you a commish, you will "go in and switch the players manually" and change results on any dates you want.

1023

mjd
Leader
ID: 501381415
Thu, Feb 10, 2011, 22:21

Yahoo now maxes out at 8 teams per sport per account. Used to be 4 and that was a problem for me.

I've always used Yahoo, but did help fill in a RIFC AA league that used ESPN just to try it out. Both were equally fine IMO.

The ESPN league did offer same day transactions as long as it was made before the first game of the day started and I liked that. But I think Yahoo offered that option also starting last year.

1024

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Fri, Feb 11, 2011, 09:37

Nice one, Toral. Love you too.

Regarding same day transactions - Not sure if they fixed it this year, but on Yahoo, once a guy's game started, you couldn't drop him for a future day. For example, when they called up Posey, I had Carlos Ruiz in my catcher slot in one league. I wanted to drop Ruiz and pick up Posey, but the Phillies played a day game, so I had to drop someone else, and didn't really have anyone else to drop. So someone else picked up Posey.

On ESPN, you can drop a guy after his game starts, and it takes effect the next day.

1025

Great One
ID: 3414219
Fri, Feb 11, 2011, 10:00

re1024 - Yes, to me thats the tiebreaker and why ESPN is the choice in this scenario.

1026

Toral
ID: 3411172119
Fri, Feb 11, 2011, 11:45

It's a tiebreaker for me too: On ESPN you can drop a guy after his game starts and pick up another guy?
No thank you. Call me a purist if you will, but that ain't real fantasy baseball.

1027

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Fri, Feb 11, 2011, 12:51

Toral, I think the English is confusing you. Let me try this:

On ESPN (the channel where Barry Melrose works), you can drop a guy whose game has started FOR THE NEXT DAY EH. Once his game has started, he is locked in for that day and there is nothing you can do aboot it. But you can still drop him from your roster EFFECTIVE THE NEXT DAY EH and pick up someone else FOR THE NEXT DAY EH. On Yahoo, it won't let you drop the guy (because they don't use a "transactional roster" - a roster specifically for transactions rather than for stats.

I'm told I have a Nova Scotia accent, rather than Ontario, so let me know if I need Twarpy to come translate.

1028

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Fri, Feb 11, 2011, 12:59

1026: But that move doesn't take effect until the following day. So Player A has a game already done. Player B has yet to play that day. You pick up Player B and drop Player A--but can't use Player B that day. That is how I understand it. In ESPN Hoops, once one game has started any transaction is for the following day, but it can be made right then. I like that.

There are 5 of us on the ESPN site who have LM Powers. Haven't gotten any feedback yet, but thus far I don't like it as well as CBS. CBS isn't an option so we are going to go with the best alternative. I should probably open up a Yahoo! site but wanted to talk to GO first since he currently runs a Y league.

As far as prospects go, I can't figure out any options whatsoever on how to protect them. The only thought I've had at this point would be to add extra bench spots for them--but remember that the database in non CBS leagues are usually limited and when guys are added they could still be picked up. Also we'd have extra players on some teams and would have to monitor usage. Could be a real headache.

1029

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Fri, Feb 11, 2011, 13:49

ESPN: Owners in LM leagues can make trades involving draft picks. These types of transactions can only take place prior to the Keeper deadline for LM Leagues.

So this is pretty useless for us. I want in-season trading of draft picks. Oh well.

1030

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Fri, Feb 11, 2011, 13:58

ESPN: POSITION ELIGIBILITY
It is 20 games played last season or 10 this season.

CBS is 10 and 5, so there are players you have might not be eligible at the position you planned for in ESPN.

Players will be listed on the ESPN Fantasy Baseball waiver/free agent list the morning after they are officially added to the team's 25-man roster (which is often the day after they play for the first time, since most big-league teams make the roster moves right before the start of the games.) Therefore, if you see a rookie make his debut, he will be in the player pool that next morning, if he is not already in it.
Before the season begins, ESPN may manually add without notice any player our experts believe has a legitimate shot at playing in the upcoming season, even if that rookie is not on the 40-man roster yet. When we do so, those players will show up, either in FA or on waivers.

1031

Species
Dude
ID: 07724916
Fri, Feb 11, 2011, 23:05

The issue of only having access to the 25-man roster to me is a pretty huge issue. Easily my favorite aspect of this league is the ability to speculate/gamble on prospects not called up to the big leagues yet. Considering the difficulty in this league of acquiring young All-Star level talent, IMO having our rosters limited to the 25-man roster is a BIG deal.

This is very different for my team compared to the rebuilders....but IMO this measurably changes the integrity of the league. Don't like it!

1032

Toral
ID: 3411172119
Sat, Feb 12, 2011, 07:51

I understand that, bh, and don't like that ESPN allows it.

1033

darkside
Achiever
ID: 3590317
Sat, Feb 12, 2011, 11:46

RE: 1031 - I think one upside is that it could possibly make the prospect draft more useful, unless I'm misunderstanding something.

Re: 1027/1032 - I like that feature myself.

I've never played ESPN and would definitely have more comfort w/ Yahoo, but it is a big enough advantage, IMO, having Blue Hen on the inside, that unless there's some earth-shattering deal-breaker that hasn't been found yet, we should go w/ ESPN.

1034

GoatLocker
Leader
ID: 060151121
Sat, Feb 12, 2011, 11:56

Haven't seen PD wade in on the discussion, but know he still has a team in Guru Keepers (Yahoo).
Maybe he can speak up on how they are handling prospects.
I've been out of the league for a long time, so not sure.

I'll look and poke around, because I'm pretty sure there are several more using prospects and Yahoo.

Cliff

1035

Great One
ID: 54127610
Sat, Feb 12, 2011, 12:21

Most people prefer to not have guys frozen at night, because you can't make roster moves. Some people can only set lineups in the evenings etc. When a guy is frozen and undroppable that can inconvience some. I personally don't care, don't do much adding/dropping during the games.

1036

slizz
ID: 5611142722
Mon, Feb 14, 2011, 00:07

re: 1027 - lmao!

anytime you can involve melrose in a baseball discussion is worthy of notice.

1037

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Mon, Feb 14, 2011, 11:01

Re: 1031. I think you're misinterpreting this. They start with a huge player pool at the beginning of the year. I mean huge - just about any player you'd imagine is in there.

The 25-man roster bit is for players who aren't in that pool. Basically, they get added to the pool as they get added to 25-man rosters.

That's exactly what we want, as best I can tell. No Strasburg issues, since college guys won't be in the original pool. But for the most part, any player you look for, including most of our prospects, is in there already.

1038

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Mon, Feb 14, 2011, 15:00

1037: that is how I interpreted it as well.

Also I never want players locked. It's fine if they are locked for that day and the move is effective for teh following day, but I still want to be able to pick up or drop a FA at will.

We just got an email that we are about to lose access to CBS. We need to make sure we have EVERYTHING we need from the site.

Anyone get a grasp on the pitching limits?

1039

Species
Dude
ID: 07724916
Mon, Feb 14, 2011, 23:22

1037 -- oh.....duh :)

1040

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Tue, Feb 15, 2011, 12:27

It is time to start the 2011 thread and yet we don't have enough feedback to figure out where we are even playing.

My 2 cents:

I definitely like CBS better than ESPN from a commish standpoint. CBS main drawbacks--price and player freeze.

Yahoo!: I am not sure Y! has the commish functions that ESPN has. Not sure about the live scoring (free) or constitution that ESPN has. IF there is a player lock at all than I think that eliminates Y! for me.

ESPN: No other game has an answer for prospects. I am unsure about the pitcher IPs limit. It appears that it is by slot like hitters. Since we never hit the hitters limit of 170 anyhow, maybe we can do total instead of per slot??? Really not sure if people understand how hard it is going to be to monitor prospects, but will do what we can. There may come a point where the commishs have to make a tough decision as far as a penalty that may piss someone off--but we will do the best we can. I'm sure there will be some unforeseen issues arise.

1041

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Tue, Feb 15, 2011, 12:29

I do like the fact that in Y! if you pick up a FA and drop him immediately, he becomes a FA again instead of going on waivers. Can ESPN do that? I don't think that is the case currently.

1042

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Tue, Feb 15, 2011, 12:46

BH: You still have not accepted the ESPN invite. Not sure what email you use anymore, but it was the one from CBS IIRC.

1043

Toral
ID: 3411172119
Tue, Feb 15, 2011, 13:54

Ref, I'm sure you have a preference as between ESPN and Yahoo!, and you might as well let us know what it is now and save us all some time, because I expect it will be accepted.

CBS is done, I think, even tho you are still mentioning it.

1044

Great One
ID: 3414219
Tue, Feb 15, 2011, 13:56

Ref - 1041, putting them on waivers immediately is pretty huge. It prevents abuse, where for example I could just add people and drop them sending them to waivers to prevent you from acquring them for whatever reason (i.e. you are in 1st and your catcher breaks a leg, I add and drop all the catchers to tie you up for 3 days). Thats an extreme example, but a good illustration of how that could happen.

1045

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Tue, Feb 15, 2011, 13:58

No waiver wire? I dunno--this doesn't sound like a good idea to me.

1046

Toral
ID: 3411172119
Tue, Feb 15, 2011, 14:01

Great One 1044 -- that problem has been discussed many times, most recently I believe in 2010 RIFC.

You deal with that either with a rule or (as has generally happened in G leagues) with the understanding that if you try shenanigans like those you suggested the transactions will be reversed and you may not be invited back the next year.

1047

Great One
ID: 3414219
Tue, Feb 15, 2011, 15:11

Thats great if you can prove it. I'm just playing devils advocater here.. but its hard to prove on a small scale. I mean if I add 10 catchers and drop them immediately, its pretty obvious. But maybe I just add a key guy or two and say I changed my mind. There is no way to prove otherwise.

The Yahoo rule is better because it takes out the grey area.

1048

Toral
ID: 3411172119
Tue, Feb 15, 2011, 15:21

OK, I agree. the Yahoo! rule is better.

Seems like a consensus for Yahoo! then.

THOSE OPPOSED, IF ANY, Say No

1049

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Tue, Feb 15, 2011, 15:37

Toral, as I stated before, there are hiccups for all sites. I stated why I like ESPN better than Yahoo from a commish standpoint. But there are also things on Y! I like better as a player and yet other things I like better on ESPN! As a commish CBS is by far the best. Not even close--hence the mention. The league doesn't like that option due to the freeze of players and the cost and I agree. I do agree that CBS is done, but remember our game and rules have been built around the CBS site. There are going to have to be some changes to those rules which could screw up some people's plans like the eligibility rule for instance.

If I'd have to make a choice right now, I'd say ESPN, but I would love for others to help with a list of pros and cons and how cbs/Y!/espn all compare. Not because we are still considering cbs as much is to compare what we currently do to what we will be doing and how it might affect us.

1050

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Tue, Feb 15, 2011, 15:41

1047: That rarely happens with us. Usually it is merely the fact that someone needs to replace a player and they find one and pick them up and then keep looking and find someone else they like better. CBS and ESPN has the same issue. I like the Y! rule better but def not enough to go to Y! just because of that.

1051

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Tue, Feb 15, 2011, 15:55

WAIT

Here's the answer to 1041. ESPN works exactly like you would expect and want: if you pick up a player and then immediately drop him, he is still a free agent (not on waivers). I just verified this in basketball.

Re: 1048 (Toral). Maybe you're counting the votes using the metric system, but I think ESPN is in the lead. Does anyone want to take a quick straw poll?

1052

GoatLocker
Leader
ID: 060151121
Tue, Feb 15, 2011, 15:57

OK, just from my knowledge of all three sites.
I'm done with CBS.
As far as ESPN vs Yahoo, not sure either really matters.
I've commished in Yahoo, but not ESPN.
I do know some of our rules could make life tough, but I think we just have to make the change based on the knowledge that we might have to make some rules changes.

Just my $.02

Bottom line, I can live with either one.

Cliff

1053

Toral
ID: 3411172119
Tue, Feb 15, 2011, 16:05

We are trusting you a lot if we prefer ESPN, blue hen. I hope you realize that.

1054

Tosh
Leader
ID: 057721710
Tue, Feb 15, 2011, 16:05

FYI - Just got this email from CBS. That a nice additional feature. In case that's part of the decision.

This season, everyone in your league gets a free subscription to MLB.com GameDay Premium, which includes:

* LIVE home and away radio feeds of all 2,430 MLB® games with no blackouts.
* Exclusive Real Time Highlights
* Pitcher Ratings, Pitch by Pitch, Live Box Scores

Plus, get closer to the action with in-game and post-game video highlights for the players on your roster.

Once the MLB® regular season kicks off, you'll have access to all of these great features straight from your league. The screenshots to the right are a little taste of what you'll see starting Opening Day.

1055

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Tue, Feb 15, 2011, 16:12

Re: 1053. Uh, thanks. First of all, I would hope you trust me. Second of all, is there anyone that has played a full season of baseball on both Yahoo and ESPN that prefers Yahoo? If there was, it would surprise me.

1056

Great One
ID: 3414219
Tue, Feb 15, 2011, 16:21

I prefer Yahoo hoops and play both.

1057

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Tue, Feb 15, 2011, 16:26

Ditto.

Loads faster. Easier to find information about other managers.

ESPN is fine. But I like Yahoo better.

1058

Toral
ID: 3411172119
Tue, Feb 15, 2011, 17:38

I played a full season on both Yahoo! and ESPN in the RIBC system in the same year a few years ago, and prefer Yahoo! I was only a commissioner in Yahoo!; perhaps if I had commisionered in ESPN I would like it better. ESPN was OK. Yahoo! rates 9, ESPN 7.5.

1055: Your surprise shows that you are overly excited about your product.

1059

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Tue, Feb 15, 2011, 18:01

You played two leagues in the RIBC system in the same year? Interesting.

True, I am overly excited about my product. But if you played a few years ago, that's hardly a comparison. There have been plenty of changes on both ends.

And #1057, I don't buy the "loads faster." Maybe before, but not lately.

1060

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Tue, Feb 15, 2011, 18:10

Luckily I'm not selling the "loads faster." I'm telling you, on my computer, that ESPN, with the ads, etc, loads slower.

The depth of my uncaring about how you respond to even the smallest criticism of your product knows no end.

1061

Species
ID: 711122010
Tue, Feb 15, 2011, 18:28

Geezus you guys, knock it the f**k off! hen, stop baiting these guys with snarky remarks......and others, ignore little quips too miniscule to deserve retort, and let's move on to true discussion, please.

If things are split 50/50-ish or with no strong consensus, the Commishes will likely decide this based upon the quality of the Commish controls and ease of assimilation (throwing in a Star Trek reference for Guru) to our rules. hen's exuberence is appreciated, and his ties to the product should be used to our advantage, not as a basis of ridicule.

Let's get productive, people. Thanks.

1062

Great One
ID: 54127610
Tue, Feb 15, 2011, 18:33

I can search ESPN's Free Agent quicker... I like that and find it easier to sort by column headers etc. BUT since it has the funky ranking system I find it more difficult to interpret at times. As I said before, its hard to compare two guys -- can't say "he's a 24th ranked player L30, 64th best for the season" which makes trade discussion difficult.

1063

Toral
ID: 3411172119
Tue, Feb 15, 2011, 21:13

bluehen:
"You played two leagues in the RIBC system in the same year? Interesting."

Indeed. Played and commissionered in AAA and joined an AA league to fill it up -- something that happens often. Both with Guru's approval. Filling up AA leagues in RI*C is obviously something you've never even thought of. Have you ever been in one?

And the fact that you don't know that -- that some people end up playing in 2 RI*C leagues because they join the AA league to fill it up shows your lack of knowledge of this site and its culture.

Toral

1064

R9
ID: 2854239
Tue, Feb 15, 2011, 21:35

I am indifferent towards either ESPN or Yahoo. I think whatever we decide, some rules will have to be changed/re-interpreted, or even some new rules made to accomodate new situations that wouldn't have happened at CBS.

Perhaps we should just hold a league vote?

1065

Toral
ID: 3411172119
Tue, Feb 15, 2011, 21:39

D'accord.

(Hold a league vote now.)

Commissioners should feel free to make recommendations before the vote.

1066

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Wed, Feb 16, 2011, 00:26

I like how ESPN has the Constitution readily available. I don't even think Y! has one. I also like how we can have multiple owners and add/remove a team if need be. Also, you can change stats or team/player status retroactive if need be. I don't think we can in Y!. This is especially important if there is a prospect issue.

As far as a vote goes, I am not comfy that I have enough info and I know the league as a whole is not. I definitely disagree with bh that ESPN is better than CBS. I'm so tired of CBS' BS though and their cost keeps going higher.

1068

R9
ID: 2854239
Wed, Feb 16, 2011, 03:42

Also, you can change stats or team/player status retroactive if need be. I don't think we can in Y!. This is especially important if there is a prospect issue.

This is very important, and I assumed this was something we would lose moving from CBS. If ESPheN has this feature, I would lean towards ESPN.

1069

Peter N.
ID: 42110168
Wed, Feb 16, 2011, 09:10

I'd prefer ESPN over Yahoo. It looks like we are done with CBS. I hope everyone realizes its going to take a group effort to monitor prospects.

1070

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Wed, Feb 16, 2011, 14:08

Update: On ESPN, there are now trade deadline options as late as Sept 16.

1071

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Wed, Feb 16, 2011, 15:35

1068: I am not sure how much ESPN can do. There is an edit rosters function and I thought I read somewhere where we could do that retroactively. In fact, I thought I had to do that our first season of ESPN Hoops, but I can't remember for sure. Regardless, it cannot do what all CBS could do. I have several people in ESPN to also have a look at things as well.

1072

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Wed, Feb 16, 2011, 15:43

ESPN trade deadline is every friday. So we can do it the 26th or sept 2nd. I have it now as the 26th.

1073

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Wed, Feb 16, 2011, 17:08

Good grief!

I've stayed out for a while and frankly do not know anything about ESPN to cast a vote for or against. I find Yahoo easy to use and have commished in it for 3 years now. It sounds like the prospects thing is a big issue -- so ref sends out a list at the beginning of the season. We all post it into our desktop folders or bulletin boards and it is up to each manager not to screw it up!! Penalty -- first time weak; after that stronger penalty.

1074

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Wed, Feb 16, 2011, 23:55

1073: Problem is that picking up and playing a prospect has much bigger implications. And what if the real owner wants him and we have to wait for him to clear waivers? Might be able to go around that in ESPN though--not sure.

1075

R9
ID: 2854239
Thu, Feb 17, 2011, 07:42

For ESPN, under Games Played Limits:

Batters 1530 Games Played (enforced by position)

I guess this means each batter position gets 1530 games? We should probably change this to 170, right?

1076

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Thu, Feb 17, 2011, 09:46

1074 isn't a big issue. We can get around that if it comes up.

1075, I think that means 1530 divided by your slots. Assuming 9 slots, that's 170 per slot. So obviously this will get us what we need.

Finally, for 1068, can someone give me a sense of how many times that has happened in the past? If it's 1 or 2 times a year, I think I have an answer. If it's 10 or 15, that might be harder.

1077

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Thu, Feb 17, 2011, 09:56

#1075: Does this mean that the batters are, in fact, limited to 170 each? Or just that there are 1530 total?

1078

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Thu, Feb 17, 2011, 10:28

Pretty sure it's each slot.

1079

Species
Dude
ID: 07724916
Thu, Feb 17, 2011, 10:59

1076: The issue of someone incorrectly picking up a prospect was common -- 10 times a year or so. But with CBS' salary warnings, I think I can only remember ONE time in my history that a prospect actually accumulated stats for the wrong team.

Others might have better memories.

1080

slizz-blackberry
ID: 32745617
Thu, Feb 17, 2011, 13:17

Always been a bigger fan of yahoo.

Just my 0.02

1081

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Thu, Feb 17, 2011, 16:00

It divides by slots, that's why I had to multiply the ABs--however that seems to do the same thing for IPs per slot which is not what we want at all. Since no one ever hits the AB threshold, maybe we not worry about slots?

I just don't think Yahoo can handle everything we need from a commish standpoint and also get our prospects and constituion on the site. Like I said before, we will have to change some of our rules based on what site we go to. The 5/10 elig to 10/20 is a big deal too--but it is what it is.

1082

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Thu, Feb 17, 2011, 16:05

If not for the warning flag in CBS, we would prob get 100+ prospect pick-ups per year w/o being dropped. I don't think anyone really understands how much of an issue this is going to be. We are talking as many as 60 prospects and about 2/3 of those are going to be in the player pool and prob half of those will be looked at to be picked up--many multiple times. This time there won't be that huge flag of illegal and commishs won't get the alerts either.

1083

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Thu, Feb 17, 2011, 16:07

It would be great if a commish could add a player to a no-add list. Obviously having a minor league taxi squad that didn't count against roster would be ideal but I don't think that will ever happen.

1084

blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Thu, Feb 17, 2011, 16:33

I'm working to get us a no-add list, but it's a lot more complicated than the trade deadline.

I'm not sure I buy that number: 100 prospect pickups in a year. The flag doesn't appear until you've already picked up someone, so I would think the number would stay consistent year to year. From what I remember, there were about 10 instances of someone picking up a player. Thanks to the flag or to vigilance, no stats were accumulated. We'll have to pay more attention this year, but I can't imagine the end result is going to be too catastrophic.

1085

Species
ID: 5191716
Thu, Feb 17, 2011, 17:09

1084: Don't be so sure about that. My number was based upon people that ACTUALLY complete the illegal pickup, and then must drop the player once the roster warning hits them upside the head. What we don't see are the dozens and dozens of times someone went to the player screen with the FULL INTENT of picking someone up, but DIDN'T because we had the salary designation there.

I too am leaning towards ESPN solely based upon superior Commish controls, which we really have to consider first and foremost. If both sites were equal, we could make the decision based upon league members' personal preferences...but it doesn't look like that will be the case.

1086

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Thu, Feb 17, 2011, 17:12

1085: couldn't agree more

1087

allhair allstars
ID: 912190
Sat, Feb 19, 2011, 01:07

Helluva thread. Sheesh!

Species makes a good point about the salary designations in the CBS format (post 1085).

Very familiar with the Yahoo format and not at all with the ESPN so perhaps this isn't the most informed of decisions, but it seems there are a lot of us that have tons of playing and commish experience with Yahoo. That overall level of comfort and familiarity with the system probably counts for something. Also, if it weren't a pretty good platform, we'd all hate it as much as we do the CBS game.

Not sure what mobile apps are available specifically for the ESPN baseball game, but the free Yahoo option is decent enough.

re: 1040
Pretty sure that this "player lock" issue is configurable using the "Allow roster changes" setting. We had that problem one season - hated it - and made damn sure we changed the setting back the next season.

Also, re: 1040, Yahoo has been offering the StatTracker free of charge. They've rolled this out free to all their sports over the course of the last couple years or so, AFAIK.

No chance I can catch up to all the discussion here, but my personal preference would be to go Yahoo.

1088

mjd
Leader
ID: 501381415
Sun, Feb 20, 2011, 00:43

What we don't see are the dozens and dozens of times someone went to the player screen with the FULL INTENT of picking someone up, but DIDN'T because we had the salary designation there.

Cussed out many of you for owning the prospect rights to a guy I wanted to pick up. I think this issue has high potential to be a major PIA for the commishes. Been down this road before with good intentions, but not so great results.

1089

youngroman
Sustainer
ID: 02934823
Sun, Feb 20, 2011, 05:08

what if we expand the roster size by 3 and put our prospects on our rosters?
in most cases they are not on the big league roster, so putting them in a starting slot makes no sense. we would just need to monitor if someone starts a prospect which would automatically be 1 of his 3 call-ups. additionally we need to check if such a prospect slot is not used for a veteran player in case one of the prospects was called up.

1090

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Sun, Feb 20, 2011, 13:01

1089: Have thought of that. Some have 5 + prospects as well. Problem is people using them or calling them up or not. You'd be surprised how many times they'd be used and say they forgot he was a prospect or whether they were called up currently or not. The worst part is others signing guys over the roster limit that have no ties to prospects.

1091

Guru
ID: 330592710
Sun, Feb 20, 2011, 14:50

I don't think "per slot" IP limits would have any impact, since we don't distinguish between SP and RP.

1092

bh@minny
ID: 33172016
Sun, Feb 20, 2011, 17:07

Looking at the comments, it's clear that the prospect issue is a big one. I'll follow up a bit although I can't promise much for this year. Not that Yahoo is any better.

Do any of you use your cell phones for this? If so, I am confident the ESPN experience is better than Yahoo (and much better than CBS). I'd be happy to talk through more details if people that that will make a difference.

Re: 1087 (Allhair) - I suggest you check out one of these test leagues before you make that call.

1093

Species
Dude
ID: 07724916
Sun, Feb 20, 2011, 17:18

Juan Pierre looking to run wild!!

Don't let 60 SB's go without inquiring about him in trade!

1094

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Mon, Feb 21, 2011, 02:45

We really need to get a 2011 thread up so we can start discussing stuff--esp since some rules are going to change due to the new site. I a, pretty sure we will end up with ESPN due to the better commish controls and the ability to have the Constitution on the site. Guess we could put everyone on ESPN to look around.

1095

Toral
ID: 3411172119
Mon, Feb 21, 2011, 08:09

That would be nice.

1096

mjd
Leader
ID: 501381415
Mon, Feb 21, 2011, 12:17

If the commish controls are better on ESPN, then let's do it. I've been a long time user of Yahoo and only used ESPN for the first time last year and it was no big deal figuring stuff out. I liked it just fine. After using both, I really don't see a big difference in managing a team on either site. And with more exposure to the ESPN site, I might even prefer it.

In a league this size, I think we need to make things as easy as possible for the commissioners.

But we do need to get off the pot and move forward so we can make any necessary changes to accommodate the new site.

I do hope that we can find a satisfactory solution to the prospect issue. We don't need to have that become a major problem.

But I'm over debating which site to use. We have more important issues to discuss and we need to move on to them.

1097

Guru
ID: 330592710
Mon, Feb 21, 2011, 12:40

If we use ESPN, I think I could build a simple automated routine to check all player adds and compare the names against a master list of prospects. If a match is found, an email alert could be sent to the commissioners. I could set it up to automatically run every hour or so during the season.

This wouldn't stop people from making those moves, but should provide an early alert so that an invalid player could be removed fairly quickly.

I could probably do it for a Yahoo league, too, although there are some more difficult security issues to overcome there. ESPN allows you view transactions without being logged in, so that's easier to program.

1098

Species
Dude
ID: 07724916
Mon, Feb 21, 2011, 14:10

Wow Guru that would be great. It's going to happen - it's just a matter of catching it fast enough to avoid stats being accumulated via unauthorized pickups.

It looks like it's ESPN, boys and girls.

1099

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Mon, Feb 21, 2011, 14:13

1097: Thanks Guru!

We are going to go with ESPN for the reasons mentioned earlier. If we get in and find issues and want to change--we can still do that but we have to make a decision. There have been about 1/3 of the league on the site for awhile. Need to work with Species on some stuff still--but setting up a new thread and see where we are with owners returning, etc.

1100

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Mon, Feb 21, 2011, 14:23

2011 Thread

Forum: basePage 20031Subject: Gurupie 20 2010 Season 8 Discussion

Forum: base
Page 20031
Subject: Gurupie 20 2010 Season 8 Discussion