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| Posted by: Mötley Crüe
- Dude [439372011] Tue, Aug 07, 2007, 18:48
RotoGuru Keeper 14
League consists of the following managers
Guru
Leggestand
Goatlocker
Sludge
Challenger
TB
Mötley Crüe
Hubble
AthleticsGuy
Holt
Doug
Beezer
I_AM_CANADIAN
Barilko6
League Parameters and Rules:
Roster
1 QB
2 RB
2 WR
1 WR/TE
1 TE
1 K
1 Team def
1 DL
1 LB
1 DB
3 additional IDP (flex)
9 bench
24 Total
Decimal scoring is applied for all categories.
Offense Category Points
(apply only to QB, RB, WR, TE, and K unless otherwise noted)
Passing TD 4
Other TD 6 (all TDs, whether on offense, defense, or special teams)
Passing-2pt conv 1
Other-2pt conv 2
Passing yard 1/25 (i.e., .04 per yard)
Rushing yard 1/10 (i.e., .10 per yard)
Receiving yard 1/10
Punt return yard 1/10 (also applies to IDP)
Kick return yard 1/25 (also applies to IDP)
Kick return 0 (no deduction)
Int, fumbles lost -2
Kicking Points
(apply only to QB, RB, WR, TE, and K)
Extra point made 1
Extra point missed -1
FG under 40 yards 3
FG 40-49 yards 4
FG 50+ yards 5
Missed FG <30 -1
Missed FG 30+ 0
Team Defense Points
(the following points apply only to team defenses)
Sack 1
Interception 2
Fumble recovered 2
TD 6 (excludes TDs on kick or punt returns)
Safety 3
Blocked kick 2
Shutout 10
1-6 defensive points allowed 7
7-13 defensive points allowed 4
14-20 defensive points allowed 1
21-27 defensive points allowed 0
28-34 defensive points allowed -1
35+ defensive points allowed -4
Defensive points allowed exclude TDs scored by the opposing special teams or the opposing defense (i.e., TDs on turnovers, kick/punt returns, or blocked kicks).
Points are assigned for yardage allowed according to the following table:
500+ yards allowed: 0 points
400-499 yards allowed: 1 point
300-399: 2
275-299: 3
250-274: 4
225-249: 5
200-224: 6
175-199: 7
150-174: 8
125-149: 9
under 125: 10
Indiv Defensive Players Points
(the following points apply only to DL, LB, and DB)
Solo Tackle 1
Asst Tackle 0.5
Pass defensed 1
Sack 3 (half sack=1.5)
Interception 3
Fumble forced 2
Fumble recovery 1
TD 6 (all TDs, whether on offense, defense, or special teams)
Safety 3
Unlisted players
During the draft, any player may be drafted, regardless of whether or not the player is listed at the hosting game site. Once the draft is completed, unlisted players may not be added to any roster. This applies for any post-draft waiver processing as well.
In the event that a drafted player is not listed after the draft has completed, a placeholder player will be assigned to the drafting team, to be replaced by the drafted player as soon as he is available.
Priority Claiming
????????
Schedule
13 week round robin
Doubleheaders all weeks 1-13 (play each team twice)
Single elimination playoffs, weeks 14-16
Trades and trade deadline
During the draft, trades may include draft picks. Trades will normally be approved immediately by the Commissioner, assuming they are reasonably balanced. If league managers believe an announced trade is unbalanced, they should protest the trade ASAP.
After the draft, trades will be subject to a review period. For the first 24 hours following a trade, managers may protest a trade by posting a message at the RotoGuru forum, or by sending an email to the Commissioner. If at least 3 managers protest a trade within 24 hours of its announcement, then all managers will be polled within the next 24 hours. If seven or more managers vote to veto a trade, then it will not be approved. If a proposed trade is announced less than 24 hours before the earliest freeze for any player involved, then the entire trade will not be processed until the following week.
If a trade does not receive at least 3 protests, then it will be effective 24 hours after it is announced. If a trade receives at least 3 protests but the protests are not upheld in a full league vote, then the trade will be processed 48 hours after it is announced.
The trade deadline is 11:30pm EST on November 9.
Playoffs
8 teams
Top 6 W/L records are seeded 1-6
Top remaining total points are seeded 7-8
Teams with equivalent W/L records are seeded based on head-to-head first, then total points
Bracket is fixed (no reseeding after each round)
Players at the primary skill positions (QB, RB, WR) and team defenses may not be added for any reason during the playoffs. Free agents at these positions will be locked out after the final regular season game. You may drop a player at one of these positions, but once dropped, that player cannot be added later.
Players at the other positions (TE, PK, IDP) may be added or dropped according to normal regular season guidelines, subject to playoff claiming priorities, if applicable.
If a playoff game ends in a tie score, the team with the better seed shall advance.
Team which are not still active in the Championship playoffs may not make any transactions - adds or drops - even if they are still competing in the Consolation bracket.
Keepers
????????????????
___________________________________________________
Let’s discuss the keepers and the priority claiming system. I want to get a feel for what managers are interested in doing. After we settle these two major issues, we can field any other issues with the established rules and then get started setting draft positions. I hope to start drafting by the coming weekend, so get your special keeper version draft sheets ready. |
| | | 1 | Mötley Crüe
Dude
ID: 439372011
Tue, Aug 07, 2007, 18:58
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Rather than using a system of priority claims based on W/L record or preset claim order that doesn't change from week to week, I am envisioning a new option.
Each person would start with say, 100 'credits' and each week there'd be auctions to decide who receives the desired players. We could do the blind bidding via e-mail to me, after I've submitted my blind bids to another league member a day early. Then, on the waiver day, the highest bidder gets the respective player and their credits are reduced by the amount of their bid. Credits would be a real commodity in the game and could be traded for players straight up or in combination deals.
I know I've argued against this basic concept in the past, but I've come around on it a bit. It can create a lot of tension and excitement around which teams will wind up with the most desirable free agents each week. It can also reward patient managers who hold onto their bidding credits until late in the game.
I am willing to mirror the RIFC claim format if there's not popular support for this idea.
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| | | 2 | I_AM_CANADIAN
Donor
ID: 1361448
Tue, Aug 07, 2007, 19:33
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I think I'd like to be able to keep 5 keepers (at least), and as fair as the "credits" go... I'm leaning against it. I think our current claims system works fine, but being an "active" FA/Waiver mover, I don't see this system benefiting my style. Also, I think it may reduce the activity, making more managers hesitant to move on a player. Whether or not this will add more realism to the scenario... maybe... but personally, I like trying to constantly "improve" my team throughout the year, not just rely on the draft to get me to the playoffs/championships.
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| | | 3 | The Beezer
Dude
ID: 191202817
Tue, Aug 07, 2007, 22:47
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I like the option to keep up to three with forfeiture of a draft pick for each player retained. I'd like to include an IDP keeper slot as well but I'm not sure how to balance that (or if it's even necessary).
I've always been a proponent of blind bidding for FAs so I like the credit idea. I'm not sold on making them a market commodity as I prefer to have a designated pool for free agents.
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| | | 4 | TB
ID: 53633209
Tue, Aug 07, 2007, 23:27
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I'm flexible on keepers numbers. I enjoy redrafting each year, so three max keepers with them costing picks in the first three rounds is a cool idea.
I would need more info on this credit system, but have to admit I'm already leery of it. I like it simple. I use waivers a lot and like a simple system. You've commished before and the less it feels like work, the more enjoyable it is. I wouldn't mind a blind bidding system that is controlled by whatever site we use, but not an email system. I've played in pay leagues where you email in your cash bids and all the cash goes to the league kitty. Pot increases all season. Lots of fun for the overall winner...lol.
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| | | 5 | Doug
ID: 422281412
Wed, Aug 08, 2007, 02:17
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Personally I'd prefer we either make it a redraft league or a keeper league... the latter of which to me means at least 4 or 5 keepers, and none of this pick forfeiture stuff. I'm not opposed to limiting the keepers positionally (1 RB max, etc.) if people want to make sure there's some good talent in the annual redraft pool, etc... but this 3 optional keeper thing is just kind of "meh" to me. I mean, at that point, why not just make it a full redraft league? Not a big deal to me, just my two cents.
I think the credit thing is a neat idea and would be ok with it... however I am a bit concerned that it overcomplicates things... I play in enough leagues (too many probably, lol) that having to remember a particular bidding system for free agent pickups (let alone trying to grasp any strategic nuance of how/when to spend the credits, what their trade value is, etc.) will likely put me at a disadvantage because when it comes to F/As, I really don't have the time to invest. I put a lot of time in for the August drafting period (especially my keeper/dynasty leagues) but once the season gets rolling I prefer to keep things simple, 'cus I can't maintain that level of attention and time investment. Keeping active on F/As and with trades is sufficiently time consuming without having a unique methodology to try and work with. If this was my only league, I'd be all for it. But as "one out of 7" total leagues that I'm in, I guess I'd prefer not to have to deal with it. Don't feel super-strongly about this, but certainly more strongly than I do about the keepers. OK, I think I've overmade my point. Sorry, stream-of-consciousness rambling here...
Oh, and FYI, I will be travelling, and probably completely sans-internet, from Friday afternoon through next Wednesday evening (8/15).
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| | | 6 | barilko6
ID: 52261810
Wed, Aug 08, 2007, 11:10
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Yeah, I am not really in favor of losing picks to keep players. I like the idea of a small number of keepers, perhaps 4.
The waiver claiming stuff, I am ok with either of the two options, the point structure or the last place priority.
I will be away this weekend, so hopefully I don't miss anything!
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| | | 7 | Mötley Crüe
Dude
ID: 439372011
Wed, Aug 08, 2007, 18:42
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Anyone else with travel or internet conflicts in the next few days, please let me know. Perhaps we won't be able to start drafting as soon as I'd hoped.
I think what you'll see if we use what has been labeled 'forfeiture' of draft picks, people will still elect to keep many players. I suggested that keeper format to incentivize people to work hard to get sleepers in late rounds or via waivers/free agency (high cost of keeping players forces managers to plan better) and also to ensure teams with no viable keepers get first crack at available players and especially rookie RB's the following year.
I was thinking about this a bit and I suppose we do not need to decide on the keeper format 100% before the draft, although I can't see us doing much meaningful discussion on it once things have gotten underway.
I'm going to wait another day for comments on the claiming system, and then I'll draw up a proposal for a vote to go up against the RIFC method head-to-head. I appreciate that people are giving this some thought.
TB, I've also played in a league like the one you described where you pay into the pot when you win the auction. I really liked that system, but I don't think we're ready to call this a pay league yet. I don't know enough about the constituents to try to force that on anyone, and I didn't make it a requirement from the start. I think it's sort of beyond contemplation now.
Another concept would be to give everyone 100 credits, and then allow people the chance to request any free agent each week, and the winner of a particular FA pays X number of credits multiplied by the number of interested managers. The player would be assigned by random drawing. So if every bid counts as 3 credits, and 6 people put in for a guy, he costs 18 credits if you get him. All of the people that lose the draw pay nothing. That might create problems when people get close to the upper limit, however. I hadn't thought about that. This particular system works better when 'credits' are actually money going into a pot and there is no limit on how much can be spent on the part of individual managers.
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| | | 8 | I_AM_CANADIAN
Donor
ID: 1361448
Wed, Aug 08, 2007, 21:17
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Credit system is interesting me less and less the more it's being talked about. I've also got to "book up" for other drafts, so hoping we can get these details sorted out soon.
FYI - As mentioned in another thread, Hubble is out of town right now... and not due back until beginning of next week (I believe); so we'll probably have to wait till then to start the draft; knowing him though... he probably wouldn't care which position he drafts from, so once the rules are complete, we can probably set draft order right away.
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| | | 9 | leggestand
ID: 35751715
Wed, Aug 08, 2007, 21:56
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1) I like the bidding system for free agents. I use it in one other league, and it's probably my favorite free agent system. It takes good thought trying to bid, and adds some excitement as the waivers are processed.
I am not against standard ww formats, though (including the RIFC's), so, I'll go with the majority. I just thought I'd throw in my .02 on the bidding version. Lots of fun If you haven't tried it already, you may not know what your missing. Or you may. To each his own.
2) I am of the genre of "more is better" for keeper leagues. I'd like 5. Or 4 offense and 1 defense. I don't mind the "lose X number of draft picks for X number of keepers," but I like a slight variation to this system. For example, let's say we settle on 4 offensive keepers...
I like the "whoever you keep, you lose the pick of the round you drafted him the year prior" system. For example, if I took Westbrook in the 3rd round last year and choose to keep him this year, I'd lose my 3rd round pick. If my first pick was Jamal Lewis, and I decide to toss him back, I retain a first round pick this year. To keep this from getting too crazy, I propose that we cut the round in half, rounded downwards for each consequential year you keep someone. So, if I decided to keep Westbrook the following year, I'd lose my first round pick that season (3/1 = 1.5, rounded down to 1).
This format really makes you strategize when selecting keepers. Is Jon Kitna in the 12th round a better keeper than Eli Manning in the 5th round if you lose that pick? Would you keep McGahee in the first round, or drop him to the pool to possibly get a top 3 pick?
Tough decisions need to be made in this format, and having the "best keepers" doesn't mean you will end up with the "best team," as you may need to lose your first four picks to keep your studs, while someone else may be able to have a 1, 2, and 3 pick with lesser quality keepers.
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| | | 10 | TB
ID: 53633209
Wed, Aug 08, 2007, 23:24
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I am out of town right now with limited access until the 17th. I'm sure I have access to kafenatid and could set up queues, but is there any rush to start drafting before the second week of preseason games?
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| | | 11 | Mötley Crüe
Dude
ID: 439372011
Thu, Aug 09, 2007, 07:12
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No, I think we'll have to push actual drafting back to late next week with the number of people who are out of town. The fact that only half the league has checked in here has me thinking a few people are on vacation still.
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| | | 12 | Athletics Guy
ID: 31658719
Thu, Aug 09, 2007, 19:17
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That idea of giving up a pick of the same round you drafted the player in sounds really interesting. It makes selecting keepers a lot more complex and challenging, just the way I like it. Leggestand, how did you guys deal with FA/W pickups who you wanted to keep though? Or players who were originally drafted in the same round (acquired via free agency or trade)?
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| | | 13 | GoatLocker
Sustainer
ID: 060151121
Thu, Aug 09, 2007, 21:04
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I'm still on business travel, but flying home in the morning.
Haven't really had time or a chance to think about things yet.
I also like the giving up the round you acquired a person in draft choice.
If you get two in the 3rd round, and you want to keep both, typically you would give up a 3rd round and a 2nd round.
Not sure about the credits/ WW set up.
Will think about it and talk to it later
Cliff
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| | | 14 | leggestand
Leader
ID: 451036518
Fri, Aug 10, 2007, 09:03
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AG -
(1) Free agent pick ups were treated as last round keepers. So, if you picked up Colston last year off waivers and kept him this year, you'd lose your 24th round pick. The next year, if you kept him, you'd lose your 12th rounder, then 6th, and so on. Those "diamonds" you find on the waiver wire are great because they are guaranteed keepers for multiple years without giving up a high draft choice.
(2) The way we run it is that if you keep two players from the same round (let's say Round 6), then you round downwards (you'd lose your 5th and 6th round). If you keep three players in one round (Round 6), you lose the straddling picks (5, 6, and 7).
It is a very fun way to do keepers, so, I am all for it.
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| | | 15 | Guru
ID: 330592710
Sat, Aug 11, 2007, 11:26
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I return home next Saturday (8/17), and would prefer to wait until then to start drafting, if possible. Doing everything by dial-up is really a pain.
I have no particular preferences for waiver/claiming methods. Are we using Fanball? I think they have a blind bidding option, although I don't recall how it works. If we use a bidding system, I'd prefer that it be a process that is automated in the hosting site's game software, rather than maintained via email.
Leggestand's keeper approach is interesting, and worth consideration - at least in some limited form.
Another option would be a blend of the alternatives listed. For example, all teams are required to have 2 keepers. Then, if a team wants additional keepers (up to some limit), draft picks are forfeited. (Which picks are forfeited could be either from the first rounds, or some other method.
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| | | 16 | TB
ID: 53633209
Sat, Aug 11, 2007, 13:03
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I like the minimum/maximum idea. Something like 2 keepers minimum and 5 maximum. Any keeper kept after 2 requires a subsequent 3rd, 4th, and then 5th round draft pick forfeiture.
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| | | 17 | Mötley Crüe
Dude
ID: 439372011
Sat, Aug 11, 2007, 13:09
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Guru, et al, I think the draft will definitely need to wait. I hadn't considered all of the traveling people are doing when I originally hoped to get going by this weekend. Next weekend seems a good target.
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| | | 18 | leggestand
Leader
ID: 451036518
Mon, Aug 13, 2007, 09:10
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Just FYI, I will be away for a day and half, so, if I don't respond to something; that's why.
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| | | 19 | Challenger
Sustainer
ID: 481126818
Tue, Aug 14, 2007, 11:58
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I would prefer the waiver wire system. My belief is if I want to bid for players.... I'd would join an auction league.
As far as the keeper suggestions, TB's suggestion is intriguing and I'm getting more interested with this approach every time I think about it. At the very minimum we should use Guru's proposal.
When exactly would we start this draft? My availability may be limited this Friday & Saturday as we'll be volunteering for my daughter's school softball festival.
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| | | 20 | Challenger
Sustainer
ID: 481126818
Tue, Aug 14, 2007, 12:12
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Btw, the Guru waiver wire system is setup to help the lower performing teams obtain players first at which may help them become more competitive. How does a bidding system maintain this possibility? (Not that I intend to be a low/under performing team!)
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| | | 21 | TB
Sherpa
ID: 031811922
Fri, Aug 17, 2007, 21:35
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Do we have a draft order yet? I'm home and ready to go too.
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| | | 22 | Doug
ID: 441251914
Sat, Aug 18, 2007, 00:02
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I guess we ought to do a draftslot draft first, no? I always prefer that... more people end up happy since they at least have some say in where they pick (well, except for the last couple guys). Just adds some nice strategery. [sic]
We should also make a final keeper decision before we start drafting.
The waiver thing can be figured out now, or during the draft, whatever... less urgent... but I'll reiterate my desire to keep it simple.
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| | | 23 | TB
Sherpa
ID: 031811922
Sat, Aug 18, 2007, 00:08
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I agree with everything in the post above.
Doug, I will probably use you as my designated picker in our RIFC AAA league. I pick after you in odd rounds and right before you in even rounds, so it should work out okay.
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| | | 24 | Doug
ID: 441251914
Sat, Aug 18, 2007, 00:24
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re: designated picker... np TB, sounds good
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| | | 25 | leggestand
ID: 217571412
Sat, Aug 18, 2007, 06:20
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I am out of town until tomorrow afternoon. If you do the draft pick "selection", I'll just take the highest pick possible.
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| | | 26 | Mötley Crüe
Dude
ID: 439372011
Sat, Aug 18, 2007, 09:11
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A couple of people have not checked in to this thread or e-mailed me with the intent to participate (since the original acceptance of the invitation anyway). That would be holt, Hubble, and Sludge. I've seen holt around in other threads and I assume he just hasn't had anything to say yet in here. But the other 2 guys I haven't seen in a while. I might be able to replace one manager on short notice, but replacing multiple managers is going to be tough.
Speaking of that, barilko has had to drop out due to work conditions creating intermittent internet access. I've already invited boikin to play in that spot and he has accepted. He played well in a AA league last year and is in one of the AAA leagues now. I think he'll fill in admirably.
In addition to the 3 MIA managers, GoatLocker, Doug, and boikin have yet to register for the draft at Kafenatid.
I think what from what I've read, no one seems interested in changing the waiver and free agent claiming system much. I propose we wholly incorporate the RIFC waiver system as a result. I am not looking for a vote on that, but if you have a strong opinion against it (which it seems no one does) please speak out now.
As far as the keeper system is concerned, I am agreeable to the main elements of leggestand's proposal in post 9. I would like to propose a slight alternative to it for consideration. I'll pose this as a vote, because I feel the general format was sufficiently well-received.
Question 1
Choose a keeper format:
(A) (The leggestand Proposal) Each player chosen in Year X and kept in subsequent years will require a manager to forfeit a draft pick in the corresponding Year-X-draft-round the player was chosen in for the year X+1 draft. Beginning in year X+2, keeping the same player will result in the loss of a pick corresponding to the pick from Year X divided in half, rounded down to the nearest whole number. This division and rounding shall apply each subsequent year (X+3, X+4) until keeping a player requires forfeiting a first round pick every year.
(B) The same as (A) above except that each subsequent year a player is kept the draft pick lost moves up one round. Keeping a player taken in the 10th round this year requires forfeiting a 9th round pick next year, an 8th the year after, etc. We'd need to cap this option at say, 4 years, so that a great player can't be held for a 6th round pick or worse more than 4 years straight.
I've seen several suggestions for how to decide the number of keepers. I think whether we use choice (A) or (B) above, we don't need to call out a required number of IDP's to be kept. An individual's draft position value will determine whether he is kept or not. I think managers should certainly be allowed to keep up to a maximum number of players, subject to the restrictions we impose as a result of Question 1 above. Reading through this thread, I am going to take a stab at settling this by offering the following question.
Question 2
What should the maximum number of keepers be for each team?
(A) 4
(B) 5
I don't see a need to require managers to keep players. If they want to throw all in and re-draft, it seems to me that they ought to be able to do so. Any objections?
Finally, as far as draft order, we may as well get started setting that with a draft-draft. I was planning to utilize Guru's method of doing that, so if two people would forward me number (1-14) sequences via e-mail, I will get it settled.
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| | | 27 | GoatLocker
Sustainer
ID: 060151121
Sat, Aug 18, 2007, 14:38
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I'm signed up in Kafenatid.
Random Numbers sent.
Let me figure out the answers to the questions.
Cliff
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| | | 28 | GoatLocker
Sustainer
ID: 060151121
Sat, Aug 18, 2007, 14:43
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1 - B
2 - B
WW / FA same as RIFC works just great with me.
Also, like the 0-5 keeper thought.
I'm good to go and ready whenever.
Cliff
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| | | 29 | The Beezer
ID: 437381216
Sat, Aug 18, 2007, 15:05
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1 - A
2 - B
0-5 keepers works for me.
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| | | 30 | TB
Sherpa
ID: 031811922
Sat, Aug 18, 2007, 15:35
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I don't feel strongly either way for the keeper options, but with option A is seems like after 4-5 years I could possibly be giving up 5 1st round picks for my keepers, so does that just mean my first five picks? If so, I guess I prefer that option, so:
A
B
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| | | 31 | Athletics Guy
ID: 31658719
Sat, Aug 18, 2007, 18:29
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1.A
2.B No minimum req. sounds good to me
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| | | 32 | boikin
Dude
ID: 439372011
Sat, Aug 18, 2007, 19:36
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1. A
2. whatever
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| | | 33 | Doug
ID: 441251914
Sat, Aug 18, 2007, 19:49
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1A
2B
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| | | 34 | I_AM_CANADIAN
Donor
ID: 1361448
Sat, Aug 18, 2007, 20:01
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1. A
2. B
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| | | 35 | Doug
ID: 441251914
Sat, Aug 18, 2007, 20:15
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Hmm... good question... if I draft a player X in 2007 round 2... then if I keep player X next year, I'll have to give up my 2008 round 2 pick. But I will still have a 2008 round 1 pick, and can draft player Y with it.
The following year, both player X and player Y would require a 2009 1st round draft pick to "keep them". Does this mean I can only keep 1 of them? Or do I just lose my "best 2" picks? What if I had previously traded away my 2009 1st round draft pick to another owner?
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| | | 36 | Guru
ID: 330592710
Sat, Aug 18, 2007, 20:23
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1-A
2-B
Dougs raises some good questions, which need to be resolved.
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| | | 37 | Doug
ID: 113132214
Sun, Aug 19, 2007, 03:46
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MC: Hubble's in my AAA1 league... he posted on Weds. saying he had just got back from a week long trip with no access. I'd imagine he probably had a busy couple days upon return (Thurs/Fri).
His 1st round pick is likely to come up today (Sunday)... so hopefully he'll be online at some point. If so, I posted a note for him in our AAA1 draft thread to remind him to come check in over here.
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| | | 38 | Hubble
ID: 9313716
Sun, Aug 19, 2007, 09:49
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Could some1 mail me the kafenatid info so i register, i looked trought my mail and couldn't find anything related to this league.
Thanks
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| | | 40 | Mötley Crüe
Dude
ID: 439372011
Sun, Aug 19, 2007, 09:59
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I just sent the e-mail, Hubble.
To address Doug's concern, it would seem to me that the best way to handle that is that for each first round pick a manager keeps, he loses the earliest available draft position that he possesses. Holding 3 first rounders would force a manager to forfeit his first 3 picks.
In the event of a trade for a draft pick, I'm not exactly sure what to do. Maybe we ought to make trading for draft picks in the first 3 rounds illegal until after keepers are declared each summer. It would be wrong to allow someone to trade away a draft pick that they eventually will be forfeiting anyway.
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| | | 41 | Sludge
ID: 177131910
Sun, Aug 19, 2007, 11:13
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Crap... I never saw any emails until the one I just got. What's the info to register at Kafenatid? I'll probably be bumbling through the draft, but I figure I can bumble pretty well.
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| | | 42 | Mötley Crüe
Dude
ID: 439372011
Sun, Aug 19, 2007, 11:35
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Sludge, I just e-mailed you as well.
Now if we hear from holt, we might just have a fantasy league going here.
I need another set of random numbers 1-14. Anyone?
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| | | 43 | GoatLocker
Sustainer
ID: 060151121
Sun, Aug 19, 2007, 11:39
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I left a note for Holt in the RIFC Discussion Thread, but got the impression from his last post that he might be out of pocket the better part of the day.
Cliff
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| | | 44 | TB
Sherpa
ID: 031811922
Sun, Aug 19, 2007, 13:00
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Second set of numbers if you don't already have them:
1
8
12
2
5
7
11
3
14
13
4
6
10
9
The more I'm looking at the keeper discussion(especially with a low amount of keepers of 5), the more I just lean to losing the top rounds for each. Meaning, if you keep 3 you lose your first three picks, if you keep 4 you lose your first four picks, etc. It's a pretty simple format. If we do stick with the per draft round/2 or -1 ideas, then I think the traded players should still count for the same picks for the other team. In essence they will all eventually end up as your top picks unless you draft a gem down the road in a later round.
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| | | 45 | Mötley Crüe
Dude
ID: 439372011
Sun, Aug 19, 2007, 14:32
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Thanks for the numbers, guys; here's the draft-draft list. Remember, at this point you only choose which draft slot you'd like to pick in. The draft snakes so that the draft order is reversed in even-numbered rounds.
1. holt
2. I AM CANADIAN
3. Mötley Crüe
4. Guru
5. Sludge
6. TB
7. Doug
8. Challenger
9. Beezer
10. leggestand
11. Hubble
12. Athletics Guy
13. Goatlocker
14. boikin
Please post your selections in this thread. Thanks.
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| | | 46 | leggestand
ID: 217571412
Sun, Aug 19, 2007, 15:15
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Back in town...my votes:
1. A
2. B
As for the draft pick trading discussion, I think MC's post 40 is a good solution. (a) Don't trade draft picks until keepers are declared or (b) if we do allow in season draft pick trading, be cognizant of what draft pick you are trading (when you trade a pick, maybe we post what player(s) on your team cannot be kept in next years draft - so you really know what you are trading?)
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| | | 47 | Doug
ID: 113132214
Sun, Aug 19, 2007, 16:05
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OK, so it seems the language would be, using an example of a guy drafted round 1 in 2007... that if I keep him in 2008, I would lose my 2008 round 1 draft pick, or else the "next highest available" pick... even if the next highest avaiable pick is actually "lower" than round 1.
If that understanding is correct, and assuming 5 keepers (which seems the consensus thus far)... then I think we'd need to adopt one of these 3 caveats to make the keeper system work (or at least something somewhat akin to one of them):
(a) You can't trade draft picks for 2008 until 2008 keepers have been declared.
(b) You can't trade draft picks in rounds 1-5 for 2008 until 2008 keepers have been declared.
(c) Go ahead and trade future year picks, but the "next highest available" pick option only applies for round 1-5 picks. If you trade away a pick and only have 4 picks in the first 5 rounds... then you would be stuck with only 4 keepers... OR your 5th keeper would have to be someone requiring a "6th round or worse" draft pick to be kept. In other words, your 5th keeper would have to use a draft pick that you actually still have available for forfeiture. You can't use a 6th round or worse pick for a "1st through 5th round" cost keeper (but you CAN use a 5th round pick for a "1st through 5th" round cost keeper).
I use 2008 as an example but obviously this is meant to apply to any future season, not just 2008.
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| | | 48 | holt
ID: 41512278
Sun, Aug 19, 2007, 20:13
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It pains me to say this. I don't think I can join. This looks like a great league. Great rules, great league members, and I would even have the first pick. My brother and I have talked about getting into a keeper league (probably have to start a new one). I only like to play in one keeper league in each sport, so I better pass on this.
Sorry guys. Should be no problem getting a replacement manager though.
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| | | 49 | Guru
ID: 330592710
Sun, Aug 19, 2007, 22:16
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Were these issues addressed:
Suppose you get a player via trade, and then want to keep him. What draft pick is forfeited? Is it the round in which he was drafted by the trading team?
What if you pick up a free agent and then want to keep him? Does that count as a 24th round pick? (Not as silly as it sounds. I picked up Colston as a free agent last year in the RIFC.)
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| | | 50 | Doug
ID: 441251914
Mon, Aug 20, 2007, 02:05
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Personally I would think that the "pick round" stays with the player when he is traded.
As for the latter question... perhaps there should be a "floor" of like a 12th or 13th round pick or so for players acquired late or via FA? Seems too much of a bonus for last place teams to be able to scoop up a keeper (resetting waiver priority weekly) for a 24th rounder if someone gets injured, etc. during the season. Another possibility would be to make FA pickups ineligible as keepers altogether.
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| | | 51 | Doug
ID: 441251914
Mon, Aug 20, 2007, 16:11
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What's our status on a holt replacement?
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| | | 52 | Mötley Crüe
Dude
ID: 439372011
Mon, Aug 20, 2007, 20:21
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I'm out of alternates. I had invited several people that turned me down and I eventually got boikin to agree to take that last elusive slot. I thought the other 13 were nailed down and I wasn't exactly prepared for this.
I'd like to fill the last spot with a manager who has a few years of RIFC experience at whatever level.
Any suggestions?
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| | | 53 | GoatLocker
Sustainer
ID: 060151121
Tue, Aug 21, 2007, 00:12
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MC,
I sent you an email.
See what you think.
Cliff
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| | | 55 | Hubble
ID: 9313716
Tue, Aug 21, 2007, 08:31
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E-mail sent to MC... i have a replacement.
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| | | 56 | Mötley Crüe
Dude
ID: 439372011
Tue, Aug 21, 2007, 19:13
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We have a few leads on the final player. I'm going to try to have that settled by tomorrow morning.
Does anyone have a problem leaving the draft-draft order as it is? I'll put it this way: if you do, please speak up tonight. I think it's fine since it was randomly assigned and I will run with it unless a few of you guys complain.
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| | | 57 | GoatLocker
Sustainer
ID: 060151121
Tue, Aug 21, 2007, 19:20
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MC,
Leave it the way it is.
Works fine for me.
Dang, did I say that with the 13th choice ;)
Cliff
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| | | 58 | TB
Sherpa
ID: 031811922
Tue, Aug 21, 2007, 23:24
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I have no problem with it the way it is. I certainly think it will speed up the process in getting the draft started.
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| | | 59 | leggestand
ID: 87382018
Wed, Aug 22, 2007, 07:45
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Agreed.
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| | | 60 | Guru
ID: 330592710
Wed, Aug 22, 2007, 10:30
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Yep. We need to get started.
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| | | 61 | Taxman
SuperDude
ID: 029463114
Wed, Aug 22, 2007, 12:08
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Just got off the phone with Cliff (goatlocker) and will take the slot that opened up. I understand that it is RIFC scoring rules but will be a keeper league. Please send me the sign up info.
I will go back and read this thread after posting this.
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| | | 62 | leggestand
Leader
ID: 451036518
Wed, Aug 22, 2007, 12:20
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Welcome, Tax. Good addition to the league.
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| | | 63 | TB
Sherpa
ID: 031811922
Wed, Aug 22, 2007, 14:11
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Great addition. Seeing how it looks like we dumped the Golden Members league, we can just reconnect here, although I did like the IDP format in that league.
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| | | 64 | GoatLocker
Sustainer
ID: 060151121
Wed, Aug 22, 2007, 14:31
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TB and I thinking the same way.
I have been tied up in meetings since Taxman and I got off the phone.
Had MCs buy-in to invite him, and as soon as MC touches base, we should be ready to start picking draft slot.
As was already said, welcome aboard Taxman.
Should be a great league with the group we have.
Cliff
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| | | 65 | TB
Sherpa
ID: 031811922
Wed, Aug 22, 2007, 14:41
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Donny, I emailed you the league ID and password for Kafenatid (even though I spelled that wrong on the email). That way you can get registered for the draft.
Erik, like me, cannot access rotoguru from work so I doubt we hear from him for another 3-4 hours. Websense tell us that "games" are blocked. I used to have a work-around, but no more. I snuck home for lunch today.
If the draft order is set, I think we just need a final ruling on keepers and waiver wire format and then get this bad boy started.
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| | | 66 | leggestand
Leader
ID: 451036518
Wed, Aug 22, 2007, 14:43
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I'd like to throw this out there...instead of doing a draft pick draft, why don't we just say the order in Post 45 is the actual draft order?
It should expedite the process a little bit and allow us to start drafting sooner.
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| | | 67 | GoatLocker
Sustainer
ID: 060151121
Wed, Aug 22, 2007, 14:49
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66 works for me, and should save us a day or better getting going.
Cliff
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| | | 68 | The Beezer
ID: 47755711
Wed, Aug 22, 2007, 15:09
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Agreed with legge and GL.
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| | | 69 | Taxman
SuperDude
ID: 029463114
Wed, Aug 22, 2007, 16:56
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I am registered in kafenatid for the draft. Sent my phone number to Motley crue, TB and also GoatLocker has it.
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| | | 70 | Taxman
SuperDude
ID: 029463114
Wed, Aug 22, 2007, 17:22
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Post 66 OK with me ....or I pick the first draft slot.
For what it is worth..I am absolutely enamored with keepers tied to draft choices im ensuing year. Any plan encompassing that works for me.
This is more of a thought than a vote or position on the WR issue. My style has been similar to IAC...meaning I use the waiver wire most every week. I also see that the bidding system will add interesting value scenarios in light of the off week scheduling problems, break out performances, injuries, arrest warrants etc. I think a bidding system would be fun, but to combine both, maybe each team can be awarded a "WR Credit" equal to their standing in the league that week (or on odd numbered weeks). IE 1st place gets one additional credit...10th place gets 10 additional credits. Such a plan would tilt the table in favor of the teams with the worst record (ability to bid high credits each week) but I don't see that as bad.
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| | | 71 | Mötley Crüe
Dude
ID: 439372011
Wed, Aug 22, 2007, 18:38
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KEEPER RULES
The keeper rules are based on the leggestand proposal (first mentioned in post #9 above).
Each player chosen in Year X and kept in subsequent years will require a manager to forfeit a draft pick in the corresponding Year-X-draft-round the player was chosen in for the year X+1 draft. Beginning in year X+2, keeping the same player will result in the loss of a pick corresponding to the pick from Year X divided in half, rounded down to the nearest whole number. This division and rounding shall apply each subsequent year (X+3, X+4) until keeping a player requires forfeiting a first round pick every year.
In simple terms, a player drafted this year may be kept by forfeiting the corresponding round's draft pick in the 2008 draft. Starting in 2009, the price changes to wherever the guy was chosen the previous year, divided in half and round down. This goes on until a player requires forfeiture of a first round pick to keep each year.
If there are two or more players that achieve first round keeper status, they may be kept in exchange for forfeiting the same number of picks at the front of the draft. Keep 3 first round players, forfeit the first 3 picks. Keep 5, forfeit the first 5 picks.
If two players on the same team and drafted in the same round are kept, one of them counts as the next lowest draft pick in the subsequent draft. If three players on the same team have identical draft rounds, then the three may be kept the following year at the expense of the round halved and rounded down, plus the two straddling rounds.
Players that are traded maintain their draft spot for the purposes of determining keeper status. If you trade your 12th round pick, he will count as a 12th rounder for the acquiring team when it comes time to determine keepers.
I think it makes sense to allow undrafted players to be kept with the 24th round pick. It will only happen one time, and then the next year the player becomes a 12th round pick. That seems a good incentive for the teams with the worst records to continue scouting at the end of the season.
I'm of the mind that all players who are waived automatically garner 'undrafted' status. For the purposes of assigning them a keeper round the following year, it would be as if they were never drafted, even if the same manager re-acquires the player.
EVERYTHING ELSE
The RIFC rules regarding Free Agency and Waiver transactions are in effect. There likely will not be time to run a waiver period after the draft, so I'm going to forgo that.
I will set the draft order in Kafenatid in a few minutes and later tonight I will post the Fanball league sign up information. We'll be using Fanball Commissioner. This should be just like RIFC, for the most part.
Thanks everyone for your input and help getting things running. And thank you especially for being patient while I worked things out.
Have I forgotten anything?
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| | | 72 | Mötley Crüe
Dude
ID: 439372011
Wed, Aug 22, 2007, 18:48
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Two things.
I just started the draft. Taxman is on the clock. I set it at 8 hours, but we're going to have to go much faster than that if we hope to finish in time for the season. I'd like to encourage everyone to leave a queue whenever possible.
I would like to trade down from the 3rd spot. Anyone from 4-7 preferred. E-mail me if you're interested.
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| | | 73 | I_AM_CANADIAN
Donor
ID: 1361448
Wed, Aug 22, 2007, 19:04
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Perfect. I'll try to use queue's as much as possible. I have set you up as designated picker MC... also, my queue for round 1 is ready.
Also... maybe we should make a new thread in the "leagues" forum?
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| | | 74 | leggestand
ID: 87382018
Wed, Aug 22, 2007, 21:18
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Good work, MC, and good job to all on getting this started and sorted out. Looking forward to it. MC, I'll trade you pick 10 if you are interested.
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| | | 75 | GoatLocker
Sustainer
ID: 060151121
Wed, Aug 22, 2007, 21:35
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Ditto all on good job getting there and getting this going.
Cliff
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| | | 76 | Mötley Crüe
Dude
ID: 439372011
Wed, Aug 22, 2007, 21:45
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I've e-mailed you an offer, leggestand.
Designated Pickers: I can do this all weekend starting Friday evening and going through all day Monday. Other days are not very good for me. Like tomorrow, I will have no access until 6 PM EST.
I recommend using boikin as a DP. He's able to access the site from work. Any other volunteers that aren't very busy or have their hands tied by website-blocking software?
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| | | 77 | leggestand
ID: 87382018
Wed, Aug 22, 2007, 21:55
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Just saw it. That's fine, and I figure that'd be the price. I'd prefer to give up 6th, but I hope I can deal with just losing 6 picks for the guy I want here.
MC and I are swapping 1st, 2nd, and 4th rounders. Once you confirm, I'll give my pick.
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| | | 78 | leggestand
ID: 87382018
Wed, Aug 22, 2007, 21:57
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I have access at work. Weekdays are easier for me to be DP rather than weekends, but anyone can use much as much as they need me.
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| | | 79 | Mötley Crüe
Dude
ID: 439372011
Wed, Aug 22, 2007, 21:57
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Confirmed. I'm headed over to Kafenatid to make the changes.
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| | | 80 | leggestand
ID: 87382018
Wed, Aug 22, 2007, 21:59
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I am glad to be at the top of one draft (at least for the first round). I am in 5 leagues this year besides the Rotoguru 14, and the draft order has not fallen my way in 2007:
12th pick
9th pick
9th pick
9th pick
10th pick
I at least get to choose from a top RB in one league.
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| | | 81 | GoatLocker
Sustainer
ID: 060151121
Wed, Aug 22, 2007, 22:00
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I also have access at work.
Thurs can be a tough day due to meetings, but as a rule of thumb I'm not away very long.
Also usually good to go on weekends.
Now, all that said, I will not have access in the evenings from 28 Aug to 4 Sept.
Going camping and they don't have WiFi.
Don't expect it to be an issue though.
Cliff
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| | | 82 | leggestand
ID: 87382018
Wed, Aug 22, 2007, 22:03
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I heart Addai this year and will keep him on my team forever.
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| | | 83 | leggestand
ID: 87382018
Wed, Aug 22, 2007, 22:09
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I created a discussion thread in the Football Standings Forum here:
Keeper 14
We should probably use that for now on (as mentioned by IAC).
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| | | 84 | Mötley Crüe
Dude
ID: 439372011
Wed, Aug 22, 2007, 22:12
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Does anyone have a problem with a 12AM to 6AM EST draft pause? I don't want anybody to get snagged on an overnight pick. I think we can manage this to the point where we finish by the NOR-IND game.
By the way, I wanted to toss this out there. I know it'll be tough to do, but what are your feelings on all of us meeting here at some point in the next two weeks and trying to knock out a few rounds over 2 or 3 hours? I mean, yeah, it's tough getting 14 guys together all at once and in one place online. But do you guys think this is a possibility worth pursuing?
I'm thinking very late on a Saturday. This one or next. Something like that.
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| | | 85 | leggestand
ID: 87382018
Wed, Aug 22, 2007, 22:18
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1) Draft Pause: agree
2) Late Saturdays work for me, or any weeknights after 8est (before 11).
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| | | 86 | GoatLocker
Sustainer
ID: 060151121
Wed, Aug 22, 2007, 22:31
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This Saturday would work for me, next wouldn't, that's Labor Day weekend.
But, would love to see us get as far as possible.
Pause works for me.
As long as I check before I call it a nite, the 3 AM start for me is okay.
I do get up at 5:30 anyway.
Cliff
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| | | 87 | The Beezer
Dude
ID: 191202817
Wed, Aug 22, 2007, 22:33
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Saturdays are not good for me, but as long as we knock out 2 rounds every day starting tomorrow, we'll be golden. I'd recommend shortening the clock to 6 hours though to keep things moving, and we might have to go to 4 hours the past few days if we lose pace.
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| | | 88 | TB
Sherpa
ID: 031811922
Wed, Aug 22, 2007, 23:22
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I just got home from work (lots of comp time earned today) and see I am up.
I agree with everything said and am available at anytime on weekends. Work is a bit busy for me for the rest of this week and tomorrow night I won't be home between 6-11pm, but for the rest of the draft I will be around.
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| | | 89 | Doug
ID: 113132214
Thu, Aug 23, 2007, 00:09
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I'm very available the next few days, but starting next Monday I'm likely to be very unavailable... I'll be on a full-time consulting gig out in Vegas and not sure how regular my access will be. Might need to coordinate by phone with someone if the work situation gets too heavy.
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| | | 90 | TB
Sherpa
ID: 031811922
Thu, Aug 23, 2007, 00:10
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I knew you were going to take Bush. You knew I knew you were going to take Bush.
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| | | 91 | Doug
ID: 113132214
Thu, Aug 23, 2007, 02:06
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Ah, but did you know that I knew you knew, or are you just figuring that out now? ;)
Sorry to do it to ya 2 drafts in a row. Kinda. =p
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| | | 92 | Doug
ID: 113132214
Thu, Aug 23, 2007, 03:23
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Oh wait, you picked before me! LOL. Yeah, I hear that Manning kid ain't half bad. Still, I'm glad you took him. I have a few other keeper/dynasty leagues (Peyton in one of 'em), but this is my first chance to get RB as my one of my RBs.
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