Self Editor

Forum: foot
Page 5230
Subject: Gurupie 24 2009 Pre-Season 8 Discussion

Posted by: Ref - Donor [539581218] Fri, Jul 17, 2009, 14:09

2008 Season Discussion

It's that time again. Emails are going out to last year's managers and their intent to return. Already two managers will not be coming back.

We have some business to attend to. The CBS site has NOT yet been renewed and we want to again look at a couple sites before committing. CBS really is very good with all the stuff we do but their prices continue to rise. It would be best to stay at CBS with all our history and we konw what works--but if another site can do everything we need--we have to at least consider it.

Also there have been some rule change suggestions from last season that I have to go find so we can discuss.

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Fri, Jul 17, 2009, 15:35

I am getting some interest in filling the two openings now. Hope to have those filled in the next few days.

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Mon, Jul 20, 2009, 11:53

Still awaiting responses from 8 of our managers if they intend to return or not. Need to know exactly how many teams we need to fill. We have at least two openings still.

deepsnapper
Leader
ID: 017103420
Tue, Jul 21, 2009, 16:10

Ref - didn't get an email, but I'm back - that's a fact. ;)

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Thu, Jul 23, 2009, 00:35

Thx ds. I'll compare my email to your CBS email. There are still 6 others who haven't responded and I'll send them out emails again.

DS, still need a pic of that trophy too.

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Fri, Jul 24, 2009, 13:48

Still waiting to hear back from Yokel and Doug.

TB says he doesn't have the time to devote to his team like he could in the past. Says if we can find a good manager to take his team then do it--otherwise he will do the best he can to help the league. In short--replace him if we can but he will step up if need be. Class act.

Cards emailed me today saying he may have found us an alternative site to play on. I am really busy today and gone this weekend--but will be investigating it with him. He thinks it may work for us and is a lot cheaper.

If there is anyone else who would like to throw their name in the mix for a possible spot let us know--otherwise, we're going to start moving on once we know definitively how many new managers we need.

judy
ID: 597401015
Fri, Jul 24, 2009, 14:37

Yokel's on vacation -- his RIBC team has slipped the 2nd in his
absence...

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Fri, Jul 24, 2009, 16:35

Thanks Judy.

The site we are looking into is myfantasyleague.com. So far we haven't found anything that precludes us using it. The cost is $80. So it's about half price or so than CBS. Going to take some work to check stats. I really like the CBS site (save for their negative rushing yards we have to go back and adjsut manually) but they continue to raise their price each year.

Has anyone ever used that site before? Looks like it may save each of us $4-$5 if we do it but we want to make sure it works for us first. Also it DOES have the option of using 6 divisions. We talked about switching to that a couple years back so we could play our own div twice and every other team once. Currently there rae two teams we can't play every season.

youngroman
Donor
ID: 02934823
Fri, Jul 24, 2009, 16:41

Ref - thought about it for a few days. I throw my name in the hat if you still need a replacement manager.

judy
ID: 597401015
Fri, Jul 24, 2009, 16:46

Ref,

I just set up a tentative RIBC AAA league there in about 3 hours. It
is similar to FanBall, with a few nice extra options -- not for
playing but for information. They let you set up a league for free -
- I'll email you what I did -- when I get home -- outgoing mail
port is blocked from this computer.

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Fri, Jul 24, 2009, 16:51

Cards has it set up. I've been messing with it for the past hour and so far so good.

Doug
ID: 3630123
Sun, Jul 26, 2009, 02:17

I'm in. Didn't see an email... maybe went to an old addy?

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Mon, Jul 27, 2009, 11:29

Doug, used same email that's on the CBS site. I can use gmail if that helps.

Yokel was out of the country but he's back now and he's in.

So we have three teams available: Arizona, Baltimore and Cincy. Going to finalize the 3 new managers now.

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Mon, Jul 27, 2009, 11:59

The three new managers will be (in a-b order): Building 7, Judy and YoungRoman.

We will have a dice roll to determine what managers get to choose their team.

Building 7 .
ID: 471052128
Mon, Jul 27, 2009, 12:07

Can I use my strat-o-matic 20-sided dice?

Slizz
ID: 26692711
Mon, Jul 27, 2009, 12:09

Welcome and good luck!

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Mon, Jul 27, 2009, 12:25

The rolls were sent out via email. I've added them up and here's what I get...

Judy 583
B7 532
YR 523

So Judy will get first choice of team and B7 will get 2nd choice. Rosters are listed below in a-b order. There are no trades involving these teams. Draft Order has yet to be established due to the lottery.

AZ Roster 13-15
Rosenfels, Sage QB MIN
Bell, Tatum RB DEN
Grant, Ryan RB GB
Brown, Reggie WR PHI
White, Roddy WR ATL
Keller, Dustin TE NYJ
Rackers, Neil K ARI
Giants DST
Suggs, Terrell LB BAL
Dansby, Karlos LB ARI
Cromartie, Antonio DB SD
Kiwanuka, Mathias DL NYG
Phillips, Shaun LB SD

Brady, Tom QB NE
O'Sullivan, J.T. QB CIN
Bennett, Michael RB SD
Harrison, Jerome RB CLE
Stokley, Brandon WR DEN
Rogers, Carlos DB WAS
Hill, Leroy LB SEA

Bal Roster 12-16
Manning, Peyton QB IND
Parker, Willie RB PIT
Marshall, Brandon WR DEN
Muhammad, Muhsin WR CAR
Heap, Todd TE BAL
Miller, Zach TE OAK
Reed, Jeff K PIT
Dolphins DST
Brown, Alex DL CHI
Morrison, Kirk LB OAK
Gamble, Chris DB CAR
Griffin, Michael DB TEN
Peterson, Mike LB ATL

Green, Ahman RB HOU
Hillis, Peyton RB DEN
Curry, Ronald WR STL
Hilliard, Ike WR TB
Schilens, Chaz WR OAK
Raiders DST
Keiaho, Freddy LB IND

Cin Roster 12-15
Russell, JaMarcus QB OAK
Jacobs, Brandon RB NYG
Williams, Ricky RB MIA
Houshmandzadeh, T.J. WR SEA
Moore, Lance WR NO
Davis, Vernon TE SF
Graham, Shayne K CIN
Ravens DST
Long, Chris DL STL
Howard, Thomas LB OAK
Payne, Kevin DB CHI
Revis, Darrelle DB NYJ
Vilma, Jonathan LB NO

Orlovsky, Dan QB HOU
Walter, Andrew QB OAK
Morris, Maurice RB DET
Morgan, Josh WR SF
Smith, Steve WR NYG
Graham, Daniel TE DEN
Feely, Jay K NYJ

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Mon, Jul 27, 2009, 12:28

We will put all these teams into CBS regardless if we stay there or not. Still have a lot of work to do to see if MFL is right for us or not.

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Mon, Jul 27, 2009, 12:38

how many are keepers??

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Mon, Jul 27, 2009, 12:40

Perm Dude
ID: 154552311
Mon, Jul 27, 2009, 12:41

Welcome, new guys!

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Mon, Jul 27, 2009, 12:46

YR -- all the good Eagles are already on other teams -- no wonder
these were leftovers!! I see only 1 Eagle -- Brown --ick.

I'l have to use other cirteria!

Slizz
ID: 26692711
Mon, Jul 27, 2009, 12:47

All three are solid teams depending how you look at it.

Arizona has little depth, but high end talent. A good draft away from competing for a division title in the loaded NFC. Only con is that an injury (like last year to Tom Brady) can derail that.

Baltimore has Peyton Manning, some solid offensive depth mixed with a couple building blocks. TB has always fielded a competitive, playoff contending team and there is no reason to think that the next owner won't do the same.

Cincy is the most intriguing of the three. They don't have household names, but are definitely the deepest of the squads available. The owner has some options on which route they would want to go heading into the draft (i.e. Keep offense/draft defense or keep defense/draft offense, and trade away the non-keepers). It is arguably the most challenging, but you can put your fingerprint on this squad quicker than others.

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Mon, Jul 27, 2009, 12:59

aha -- there is divisional play to consider...not just the lineup itself...I'll need to see
how that plays out over the season itself --

gonna go have a bite of lunch to look over my lists --back in 30 with a decision...

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Mon, Jul 27, 2009, 13:11

The NFC is stronger than the AFC but we play all teams in the other div once except two teams. We play our own div. twice.

There had been talk of going into three divs per conference. Then it could be own div twice and all other teams once I believe. Doesn't seem like that adds up though. I can't remember the exact breakdown. CBS woouldn't allow us to do it. MFL would. Just not sure we want to do it or not. I'm going to have to look at all the ideas from last season.

Slizz
ID: 26692711
Mon, Jul 27, 2009, 13:12

Ref - I know we have touched on this in the past, but what are we doing with respect to sacks and return yards this season?

Every Sack = 3 points rather than 2.

Every 25 yards (KR/PR) = 1 point.

Guys like Josh Cribbs and Danieal Manning will now have some value in this league.

Great One
ID: 17459269
Mon, Jul 27, 2009, 13:16

Forgot about that, good point. I think we had some good discussion about it last season so now we can revisit. I think the sacks absolutely need to be increased, and I'd be in favor of return yards as well as it opens up and extra 10-15 guys that could be useful to cover a bye week or offer some depth to teams dealing with injuries etc.

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Mon, Jul 27, 2009, 13:17

Sack was one of them that was suggested for change. thanks for bringing that up. Return yards was defeated last time IIRC. But I know PR would have more value than KR. I htink there was another stat that people were talking about too.

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Mon, Jul 27, 2009, 13:31

re#26

is it 25 yds = 1 pt or 1 yd = .04 pts?? ie', decimals

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Mon, Jul 27, 2009, 13:36

DECISION!!

I'll take ARIZONA!

Rationale (Without giving away too many secrets...):
Will pray Brady does not get hurt again.. Also was able to circle 9 keepers right
away vs 6 and 5 for the other teams. Checked 2008 stats in MFL and made the
decision!

YR -- I'll try and get some Eagles via the draft! Gotta have some on my team!!

Slizz
ID: 26692711
Mon, Jul 27, 2009, 13:49

Judy - I have interest in one of your players. What is your email?

RE: 29 - Under the proposed change, every 25 yards gained in KR or PR, the said player will be awarded 1 point. Since we do fractional scoring in this league, you are correct that it would be .04 points/yard.

Peter N.
ID: 26502712
Mon, Jul 27, 2009, 13:50

Judy, I have McNabb and Desean Jackson available. Send me an e-mail. ;-)

Peter N.
ID: 26502712
Mon, Jul 27, 2009, 13:51

BTW, welcome to all 3! This league is fun and challenging. I think our total messages for the year might double with Judy in this league. :-)

youngroman
Donor
ID: 02934823
Mon, Jul 27, 2009, 14:09

its always the same, I am last to pick when it comes to some dice rolls.

I think I know with which team I will end up. some familiar names on both rosters and some unfamiliar ones. draft strategy seems to be very important. at least I know I don't need to scout and look after an Eagle. many of the available ones will land on Judy's team and the rest is better off on another team, because the good ones will be already gone.

on scheduling. here my idea:
we have 24 teams and 13 regular season weeks, right? thats 26 games to play, which would be every team once (23) and the 3 teams in your division twice, which adds up to 26 games. with 3 teams in your division, the divisions size needs to be 4, which means 2 conferences, with 3 divisions. every division has 4 teams.

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Mon, Jul 27, 2009, 14:17

Yipes action already!

Hey Peter -- the thread is half the fun!

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Mon, Jul 27, 2009, 14:30

YR, that's how I had it. Just have to go back through some threads. Of course that would also mean DIV realignments as well. We had them set up as well with only two not going on pure geography.

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Mon, Jul 27, 2009, 16:21

Cards just informed me thta he thinks we will get half off this season if we leave CBS for MFL and also might be able to import settings. I'm still looking into that as I haven't found that yet.

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Mon, Jul 27, 2009, 16:34

Here is the link for CBS to MFL:

http://www.myfantasyleague.com/fantasy-football-purchase/fantasy-football-
upgrade-to-mfl.php

Toral Away
ID: 46341210
Mon, Jul 27, 2009, 16:36

If I'd known Judy'd be joining I'da been picking up Eagles up off the waiver wire before the last game last year!

Building 7
ID: 471052128
Mon, Jul 27, 2009, 16:40

I'll take Baltimore.

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Mon, Jul 27, 2009, 16:51

So YR will have the Bengals.

Congrats to the three new managers and welcome to the league!

Thanks Judy. I am really liking MFL so far.

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Mon, Jul 27, 2009, 17:00

I also read something about a discount if you refer others? If that's the cash perhaps the gurupie communty can get together to save us all some cash--particularly the RIFC leagues.

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Mon, Jul 27, 2009, 17:10

that's a great idea -- I am sure if Guru emails them, we could work
out a discount deal.

Peter N.
ID: 26502712
Mon, Jul 27, 2009, 17:14

Trade Announcement

Dallas Cowboys send Donovan McNabb and Desean Jackson to Arizona Cardinals for Tom Brady and Roddy White.

Judy to confirm.

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Mon, Jul 27, 2009, 17:16

I emailed MFL and they got back to me in under 5 mins w/this response...

Hi Ref,

Thanks for checking out myfantasyleague.com! We can offer a discount price of $44.95 if you want to make the switch. Just let me know the 5-digit league ID of your league on our system after you create it so I can apply the discounted price BEFORE you purchase it. You can setup a free trial league on our site in just a few minutes to get started. Here is the direct link for that if you need it:

http://football.myfantasyleague.com/2009/league_setup1?RANDOM=1&BASIC=1

The leagues are free to use right now, so you can create a trial league and start using it right away without any obligation. Let me know if you need any additional info or have any questions about setting up a league!

To transfer the history, check out this program here on our web site:
http://www.myfantasyleague.com/fantasy-football-tools/fantasy-football-frontoffice.php

If you download and install the "Front Office" program, and then follow the instructions on this page, it will let you cut and paste your history from your league web site on CBS or Fanball and transfer it to our system. Give it a try and let me know if you have any questions about the process.

Thanks,
Mike Hall
sales@myfantasyleague.com

Slizz
ID: 26692711
Mon, Jul 27, 2009, 17:22

Judy is already wheeling and dealing her first day on the job!

TRADE ANNOUNCEMENT

Slizz's Bills and Judy's Cardinals have agreed to the following:

Slizzs Bills: Tim Hightower, RB, ARI & 2009 11th Round Supplemental Draft Selection

-for-

Judy's Cardinals: Jerome Harrison, RB, CLE & 2009 2nd Round Supplemental Draft Selection

Judy please confirm.

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Mon, Jul 27, 2009, 17:26

Holy Snap!

I knew Judy was active but dang!

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Mon, Jul 27, 2009, 17:29

yup to both

I get donovan and desean, and hightower and #11 pick

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Mon, Jul 27, 2009, 17:30

surely can't have McNabb and Jackson on a Cowboys team! At least
McNabb lives off season in AZ!

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Mon, Jul 27, 2009, 17:38

The wolves are attacking the "fresh meat."

Wonder if Judy will have the last laugh?

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Mon, Jul 27, 2009, 17:45

time will tell...I HAD to get some Eagles and DeSean and Donovan should fit the bill just fine!

I sometimes wonder if my RIFC "handle" should be something like Sam instead of judy...
don't see many other females playing...I have a few female football junkies friends, they just
don't play fantasy... but I do get the occasional idea from them.

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Mon, Jul 27, 2009, 17:47

From MFL:

This league is set with the extra discount now. Let me know your name so I can create an entry in our database for your account.

Yes, we offer a $20 referral discount on future leagues. So if/when you create another league, enter 71878 on the create league screen, and then you'll receive credit towards next year's league!

Thanks,
Mike Hall
sales@myfantasyleague.com

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Mon, Jul 27, 2009, 17:51

I have both trades accepted on CBS. If there are no issues, I'll approve both shortly.

Great One
ID: 205282111
Mon, Jul 27, 2009, 18:23

I've got Joseph Addai on the block for a WR or QB

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Mon, Jul 27, 2009, 18:57

I have plax otb for a rb or qb. ;)

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Mon, Jul 27, 2009, 22:57

plax -- as in "oops, I shot myself in the leg?"

Frick
ID: 4945458
Tue, Jul 28, 2009, 09:47

Dang, I would you trade Plax for Art Schlichter if I had Art's rights.

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Tue, Jul 28, 2009, 11:51

How did SF enter his lineup into MFL? Don't we need an invite and
a password to do that??

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Tue, Jul 28, 2009, 12:16

StL Cards and I are working on MFL. He has done a lot of the setup and is working on the player aspect. Two players on his team are not in the MFL database. We've not invited any teams. I think his team is the only one in thus far. Those are his players.

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Tue, Jul 28, 2009, 12:19

OK I am signed in with the MFL password and I changed it already to what I wanted. I have
also been playing with the look of my homepage.

When I tried to do the waivers, it said "Your league calendar indicates that owners cannot
submit waiver picks now."

Ok, I'll wait a bit :)

Perm Dude
ID: 154552311
Tue, Jul 28, 2009, 12:22

Patience Judy, patience!

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Tue, Jul 28, 2009, 12:24

Looks like Cards was busy and set up our teams too.

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Tue, Jul 28, 2009, 12:38

We are still in testing/experimental stage. We have to know what is up soon because CBS will dump our league very soon if we don't renew it. I've been porting over stuff just in case.

All RIFC leagues should be using a referral code--rather than signup w/o one. I emailed Guru yesterday about it. Our referral code is 71878. Was thinking that the RIFC minor leagues would use the RIFC code when they signed up. But someone has to have a code to start somewhere.

I'm still investigating why MFL doesn't have Selvin Young and Brain Griese. WOnder who else they don't have. In our deep league--this especially cannot happen.

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Tue, Jul 28, 2009, 13:32

PD -- now that I've got my Eagles, I am ready!!

That trade with Pete was perfect!!

deepsnapper
Leader
ID: 017103420
Wed, Jul 29, 2009, 06:55

Man, miss a few days and look what happens!

Ref - didn't get the email, but I think I'll play again this year. ;)

Welcome all 3 new owners. Prepare for a new kind of football challenge.

deepsnapper
Leader
ID: 017103420
Wed, Jul 29, 2009, 07:13

I'll post here what I posted in our RIFCAAA1 about playing in on MFL last year.

I played in a MFL 12 team league last year and the waiver wire is kind of goofy. You have all the players in a box on the left by position in alpa order and you have to find the free agents you want & move them to another box on the right. After you've selected who you want with your 1st round WW pickk depending on your WW position, (might be 14 players in our queue). You have to repeat the process for each round of the WW if you want to try for multiple players. It was a real pain in the place where the sun don't shine due to the time it took. And if you forgot to save - you have to start over on that round!

Other than that, the live stats worked and we played doubleheaders. They have realtime texting when you sign in to the site similar to yahoo so you can chat and also a message board. Their draft blows as it didn't send reminders or allow for surrogates. Never could get the handle of the trade mechanism, but as it turned out, I didn't need it. ;)

The waiver wire was really the only pain in the rear. I can't imagine putting 24 players in a queue by WW round by finding the players by alpha order by position. You don't get any stats to work with so you have to hunt for the players only by name on MFL unless they've changed the process for this year.

It was difficult enough for me last year putting 11-12 players in a queue for bye week coverage. I would cuss a blue streak when I forgot to save a round too because I'd have to start over as it didn't ask for to save a WW round, it just went back to the team page.

Like I said, hopefully they've improved upon the Waiver Wire feature this year, I sure hope so.

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Wed, Jul 29, 2009, 12:49

Thanks ds, Cards has been doing a lot of testing. We need to take a look at that.

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Wed, Jul 29, 2009, 13:09

ds, send me an email.

Also need the pic of your G24 trophy.

Slizz
ID: 26692711
Thu, Jul 30, 2009, 10:23

Not really familiar how that site works, and I agree with DS that it would be a huge pain...Especially for IDP replacements.

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Thu, Jul 30, 2009, 10:58

Here is what Cards emailed me:

So far what I’ve seen is there are some nice features in MFL for commish control, but I like the user interface better in cbs. I populated some teams and started looking at how things work from a user point of view and like cbs better, but maybe just because I’m used to it.

I looked at the waiver process and set something up, but the waivers are a bit hard to figure out if they are set up correctly or not. The option I selected was for them to run every day, and that option locks the process on Sunday. I don’t know if it would freeze things on Saturday if there were games that day, but I think I did select an option to lock players for 2 days when they play, so maybe that does it. Locking those players but still allowing things to run for non locked players.

I also tried out that program that is supposed to allow us to import our league history, but the league history at cbs is really just the records and record book. I don’t think it will import all the transactions or anything. I also couldn’t use the program because the help files wouldn’t open due to an incompatibility with Vista. I tried installing the Windows suggested patch but it still didn’t work.

From a functionality standpoint I think MFL would work. Not sure about the user interface though.

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Thu, Jul 30, 2009, 11:00

I've been told that the support people get back to you really quickly so that should probably be something we ask.

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Fri, Jul 31, 2009, 12:08

Cards is leaning toward biting the bullet and staying with CBS because of the WW issue. Thoughts?

Perm Dude
ID: 154552311
Fri, Jul 31, 2009, 12:12

The waiver process seems like it might be a real mess for MFL. As you pointed out, ref, in a very deep league like ours a well-functioning and clear waiver process is a must.

CBS still looks like the best of the bunch to me, overall.

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Fri, Jul 31, 2009, 13:19

AAA#1 is in biting the bullet the other way and is in MFL. I agree that the waiver is hard to
figure out -- they don't write it out the way I think. It is a "calendar" issue for them and
that is how it is set up. I am pretty sure I did it right. I'll send ref the pdf of what I did.

How it will work during the season, I have no idea as it can't be tested yet...

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Fri, Jul 31, 2009, 16:00

Cards says that the prepackaged WW works for our league. Just trying to make sure everything works and is intuitive.

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Fri, Jul 31, 2009, 16:07

Cards, our tresurer and has tested everything out, caled CBS and talked them into giving us a discount to return. They agreed and we are going to stay with CBS this season. We can see how MFL works in other leagues and see what we can do for future seasons. It's still expensive and a lot more than we would ahve paid for other sites--but we KNOW CBS works.

Slizz
ID: 26692711
Fri, Jul 31, 2009, 17:23

Thanks Cards! We appreciate your hard work and efforts. Glad we can put this behind us and look forward to the season. Good luck guys.

deepsnapper
Leader
ID: 017103420
Sat, Aug 01, 2009, 00:07

[71} Ref - I'll get on that right away. It's looks like the old Phil Simms Gridiorn Trophy's he handed out before he started handing out skillets & that ugly bird thang. It's buck!

Happy to hear about the CBS decision. Cards has been and continues to be my heroe! I'm glad to pay for CBS to avoid the pain of dealing with MFL's WW. Not being able to see a players stats when trying to pick them up was a pain in a 12 team league, much less a league our size.

slizz-bberry
ID: 37736121
Sat, Aug 01, 2009, 22:36

Ugh. Beanie Wells already carted off the field.

Chalk one up for Judy (Hightower)!

Knee Injuries and deals between the Bills and Cards are synonomous with eachother!

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Sun, Aug 02, 2009, 12:38

I updated the all time H2H history thread in the football standings forum, but for some reason the numbers aren't adding up. Seems to be several games missing. Trying to fgiure it out now.

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Sun, Aug 02, 2009, 13:01

CBS is screwed up. I tried to take a shortcut and let them do the work for me but they totally mesed it up. SO I need to go through every game last season and re-do it.

judy
ID: 9729212
Sun, Aug 02, 2009, 13:29

Yeah, I saw that about wells -- I really don't like it when a rookie gets hurt -- not
that I want anyone to get hurt...

(In RIBC I traded Beckett for Myers when both were stinko. Next game, Myers blows
out his hip and Beckett has been lights out...)

I need an invite to my team and the cbs site so I can see how it works!

Sorry to hear about the extra work ref...

judy
ID: 9729212
Sun, Aug 02, 2009, 15:02

oops - got into the cbs site (forgot I was already a cbs member
and the general sign in got me into my team page...)

Perm Dude
ID: 154552311
Sun, Aug 02, 2009, 15:11

Nice work, ref.

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Sun, Aug 02, 2009, 21:49

PD, I'm re-doing the grid. CBS screwed it up. I'm having to go team by team. I will remove and replace it with the right one when I get done. Trying to get it done tonight but it's taking some time.

Once that is done, I will turn my focus to the rules suggestions/ideas for changes for this year. Then will start focusing on a rough timeline for keeper/draft times. We also need to run the lottery to determine draft order for our first round.

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Mon, Aug 03, 2009, 00:28

OK, it's done...whew...posted. Instead of posting all of the updated records and changing our owners names, etc. now, I just updated the recrods but won't post in the standings now. So here they are.

Best Record vs. Opponent
1. 10-0 Ref's Colts over Slizz's Bills
2. 7-0 Ref's Colts over PD's Browns
2. 7-0 TB's Ravens over mjd's Chargers
4. 5-0 Promize's Seahawks over bmd's Texans
5. 4-0 Several teams tied

Most Wins vs. Opponent
1. 10 Ref's Colts over Slizz's Bills
2. 8 Judy's Cardinals over sj's Packers
2. 8 Toral's Sains over AF"s Falcons
2. 8 mjd's Chargers over Slizz's Bills
2. 8 Coyotes' Broncos over bmd's Texans
2. 8 Cards 49ers over Judy's Cardinals

Promize
ID: 551462816
Mon, Aug 03, 2009, 08:35

Well hopefully Texans on my schedule five more times this year :)

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Mon, Aug 03, 2009, 09:38

At some point, maybe in an email to keep it semi private (?), could I have a list of team
name, handle name and real name? Some of them are obvious, but some are not! You
guys know each other, but I don't. It gets confusing! The owner's page in cbs is only a
little bit helpful.

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Mon, Aug 03, 2009, 10:24

91: Go to CBS and click on league home/teams and owners. Also make sure you go to options/personal and check out the other tabs as well.

judy
ID: 48642817
Mon, Aug 03, 2009, 18:32

Ack Eagles MLB and signal caller Bradley out for season with
ACL.

Big blow for defense.

Slizz
ID: 26692711
Tue, Aug 04, 2009, 12:52

The bigger loss for the birds was Jim Johnson.

From Peter King's MMQB:

Stat of the Week

Tell me the big stars on the Philadelphia defense in this decade. Hugh Douglas? Brian Dawkins? That's it. "That's what's amazing about what Jim Johnson did,'' said his friend and former staff-mate in Indianapolis and at Notre Dame, defensive coordinator Greg Blache of the Redskins. "He made the most of what he had every year.'' How the Eagles fared league-wide under Johnson's tutelage since the new century dawned:

Defensive category

Category NFL Rank Number

Sacks 2nd 390

Third-down efficiency 2nd 34.0 percent (686-2,016)

Red-zone TD percentage 2nd 43.9 percent (175-399)

Points allowed 4th 2,546 (17.7 per game)

Opponents' QB rating 4th 75.2

Turnovers forced 10th 260

Interesting. Douglas is the Eagles' leading sacker this decade with 40. Imagine he's the best pass-rusher you've had over the decade, and you get an idea of what good team defense Johnson orchestrated with the Eagles.

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Tue, Aug 04, 2009, 14:33

Ok I found the post last season talking about potential rules changes from Dec. 7th. We need to discuss them now.

We're not having any sort of a vote until before next season. No one ever wants to even discuss rules changes it seems until th emiddle of the season. Even when we push for input before the season, many do not participate.

With that being said, I think it's great if you want to weight-in now on ideas. may help us come up with some alternatives to objections.

Here are my current opinions...

Team D/ST: I think this could be a huge disadvantage to several teams. Team D/ST can mean the difference for a team winning and losing. Several teams have made trades to ensure they ahve a great team D. Take PD for instance, his D has been a part of his team from the beginning and has really helped him every year. Now he's trying to fix his team and if he loses his D, that's one more piece to fill. My guess is that this will be a tough sell. I think we'd get farther tweaking scoring as I've suggested before. For instance, I've proposed that we not count scoring not allowed by D and it hasn't even gotten enough support to take it to a vote. Perhaps we should look to add or nerf some of the D's elements as well? I don't know.

Return Yards: This has been brough up probably 4 or 5 times and has had little support as well. I attempted to bring it in along with IDPs since there are DBs who return but, again I had to withdraw it because of lack of support. As long as we don't put too much weight on PR and KR, I think it could work--esp in a deep league like this. INTR and FR yards are also options on CBS, but again had little interest when we brought those up before last season.

Add/drops after week 13: The only way I can see this being able tow ork at all is something like GO proposed. It HAS to be fair to the non-playoff teams.

Adding another IDP spot: I haven't done much research on this. But with our limited bench, I'm afraid that if we did this, we'd also have to add another bench spot and that could make the WW even thinner. No opinion on this as of yet.

Adding a point to a sack: I think this needs to be done. In addition to an INT being 4 points, often times the IDP will get a PD as well. That's 5 points. mjd's point was exactly our thinking when we proposed the 4 for INT, but DL players need those points and a sack can also stop a scoring drive. Players DO recieve a tackle for another point when they sack. At the very least, I feel a sack must go up by .5 (half sack .25).

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Tue, Aug 04, 2009, 15:00

Keepers and draft date possibilities.

It looks like the NFL season is starting a week later this year. We normally announce Keepers and start our draft after the 2nd week of the preseason. Even though we've added IDPs and several more roudns to the draft, we still get done in plenty of time.

So TENTATIVE dates are:
Keepers Due Aug 25
Draft starts Aug 26

Cards and I have work to do once keepers are done before we can start the draft.

Next on my Agenda: Draft Lottery and Schedule set-up...

Great One
ID: 4778411
Tue, Aug 04, 2009, 15:12

My playoff add/drop proposal was copying off our F101 policy.
Short version - When playoffs start, only playoff teams can make moves. No player added or dropped is eligible to be kept.

Ladanian breaks a leg? leave him on your bench to retain.
Your kicker breaks a leg? kick him to the curb and pick up whatever Gramatica they sign for the rest of the year.

Perm Dude
ID: 154552311
Tue, Aug 04, 2009, 15:16

I like it. I think I suggested something similar last year.

I also remain supportive of adjusting the scoring to make kick returners a more important part of the game.

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Tue, Aug 04, 2009, 15:18

re 96 -- wouldn't you want a bigger gap between keeper declaration and draft? You've only left
one day which is really no day?

100

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Tue, Aug 04, 2009, 15:34

re: 97 How has that worked out for your other league? Our philosophy when we put this league together was that a player had to at least been on your team for week 13 before they could play for you in the playoffs. If that is antiquated and this rule would help--then I think people could be convinved. If this would go through, I htink we'd need to document this somewhere andthen drop the player as soon as the playoffs are over.

Team D/ST: I don't think there is any equitable way to remove a player (D/ST) from a player's team. I am against removing D/ST from the league.

Sacks: I am for this rule tweak. The proposal would go from 2 pts to 3 pts and put it in line with RIFC which works great--esp since INT is a point higher than anywhere else I've seen.

Return yards: Man...I have supported this and even proposed it before and it never even had enough support to get it to a vote before. It's odd it keeps coming back up when it had zero xupport before. I think the proposal was .1/yd for PR and .04/yd for KR yds. FR yds and INT yds were also the same but also had no support (and still may not).

If there are any other ideas or suggestions we may be able to discuss or tunr into a proposal--let us know now before Keepers.

101

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Tue, Aug 04, 2009, 15:39

re: 99 We used to have a week, then down to 3 or 4 days and when we expanded our league up to what 7 more rounds, the league still wanted to see two weeks of preseason to make their keeper determinations and figure out draft. I think the Thursday would be even better as some like evaluatiing Keepers for a longer period of time. In our deep league, a lot can be gleaned from that 2nd preseason week that affects our draft.

102

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Tue, Aug 04, 2009, 15:45

RE: Return yardage.

I think Slizz said it best last year that IDP should be a more important part of our game--perhaps at some point where we trade for them. Obviously we don't want to go overboard--but we should at least take a good hard look at this before deciding. Also, if INT Ret yds comes in--then I think we'd want to knock down INTs from 4 to 3.

103

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Tue, Aug 04, 2009, 15:56

love the return yards -- made Leon Washington somewhat valuable a few years ago.
Also helps in bye weeks to use a lesser IOP to get some points...

104

Great One
ID: 4778411
Tue, Aug 04, 2009, 16:01

Or a guy like Josh Cribbs... need to cover a bye week, you can slide him in and at least get a reliable 3-4 points for his efforts.

105

Toral
ID: 4155487
Tue, Aug 04, 2009, 16:07

The main practical effect is that it requires intense attention to who is returning punts, at the time of the draft. Starting DB announced as punt returner -- very important. Almost like a closer change -- but rarer.

106

Perm Dude
ID: 154552311
Tue, Aug 04, 2009, 16:23

It also brings into consideration a 3rd or 4th string WR/DB who otherwise would rarely be considered. But if he's the #1 KR/PR for a team--suddenly he has value.

107

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Tue, Aug 04, 2009, 16:39

I have sent the info to Guru for the draft lottery. I will let everyone konw before we run it. For those unfamiliar with the draft lottery process, here is a brief recap.

1. The bottom 16 teams are each assigned selection probabilities for the lottery, defined as chances per 1000. The last place team has a 25% chance of being selected; the team 16th from the bottom has a 0.3% chance (3 per 1000). For the upcoming lottery, here are the selection probabilities (chances per 1000) assigned to each team:

9. SJ's Packers 3
10. Promize's Seahawks 4
11. Slizz's Bills 5
12. GO's Jets 7
13. yr's Bengals 9
14. Judy's Cardinals 13
15. Cards' 49ers 17
16. BJ21's Rams 23
17. B7's Ravens 32
18. GShade's Chiefs 43
19. Yokel's Jaguars 59
20. Toral's Saints 80
21. PD's Browns 108
22. mjd's Chargers 147
23. Frick's Vikings 200
24. AF's Falcons 250

2. The lottery is conducted as four sequential random "draws". The first draw will be for the top pick, then the 2nd pick, then the 3rd, then 4th. All teams not selected for one of the top three picks will be assigned the 5-16 positions in reverse standings order.

3. The process for each draw is to simulate the random selection of four balls from a total of 14 balls, numbered from 1-14. There are 1001 such possible combinations that can be selected. One of these is predetermined to represent a "do over", and the other 1000 combinations are each pre-assigned to one of the 16 teams, in the proportions listed above. I have done this in a linked spreadsheet which will be posted before the lottery begins.

There are 1000 rows. Columns B,C,D, and E list the four-ball combos. Columns F&G list the team that is assigned to each combo. Once a four ball combo is drawn, it is a simple matter to look up the team that is represented by that combo. (2-7-9-12 is the "do over" combo.)

3. If the second, third or fourth draw results in a duplication, then it is tossed out and done again.

4. The program for selecting the 4 ball combinations is derived from the random.org website. Here is a sample (the top 4 numbers are the only ones that matter): http://random.org/cgi-bin/randseq?min=1&max=14

The version of the program that we use sends an email confirmation to several people, so the results can be audited and verified. Guru wrote the program, but Ref will run it and post the results here.

108

Toral
ID: 4155487
Tue, Aug 04, 2009, 16:41

Momma needs a new paira shoes.

109

Guru
ID: 330592710
Tue, Aug 04, 2009, 17:06

Here is the spreadsheet with the lotto ball combinations:

http://rotoguru1.com/foot/G24-Aug09-14x4_balls.xls

110

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Tue, Aug 04, 2009, 17:15

I don't know how Guru does it all, but we sure thank him for his continued support.

I posted on the CBS BB and most of you have it set up to email you after someone posts. I am getting ready to run the lottery now and the next few posts will be results. Then we can get back to discussing possible rules tweaks/changes and I'll move on to season schedule.

Best of luck!

111

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Tue, Aug 04, 2009, 17:20

The winner of the 2009 G24 Lottery is...

FRICK'S VIKINGS!!!

112

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Tue, Aug 04, 2009, 17:21

2nd ball comes up...

AF's Falcons

113

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Tue, Aug 04, 2009, 17:22

3rd Ball comes up...

Frick...re-pick

114

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Tue, Aug 04, 2009, 17:24

4th ball (3rd Pick) is...

A New Pair of Shoes for Momma!!!

aka Toral's Saints

115

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Tue, Aug 04, 2009, 17:25

5th ball (4th pick) is...

mjd's Chargers

116

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Tue, Aug 04, 2009, 17:27

No big surprises. 4 of the 5 most likely teams to get picked, did so.

117

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Tue, Aug 04, 2009, 17:37

G24 Draft Order (trades not considered here)

1st Round:
1. Frick's Vikings
2. AF's Falcons
3. Toral's Saints
4. mjd's Chargers
5. PD's Browns
6. Yokel's Jaguars
7. GShade's Chiefs
8. B7's Ravens
9. BJ21's Rams
10. Cards' 49ers
11. Judy's Cardinals
12. yr's Bengals
13. GO's Jets
14. Slizz's Bills
15. Promize's Seahawks
16. SJ's Packers
17. Peter N's Cowboys
18. bmd's Texans
19. Coyotes' Broncos
20. Twarpy's Giants
21. CCR's Bears
22. Ref's Colts
23. Doug's Raiders
24. DS' Eagles

Subsequent Rounds:
1. AF's Falcons
2. Frick's Vikings
3. mjd's Chargers
4. PD's Browns
5. Toral's Saints
6. Yokel's Jaguars
7. GShade's Chiefs
8. B7's Ravens
9. BJ21's Rams
10. Cards' 49ers
11. Judy's Cardinals
12. yr's Bengals
13. GO's Jets
14. Slizz's Bills
15. Promize's Seahawks
16. SJ's Packers
17. Peter N's Cowboys
18. bmd's Texans
19. Coyotes' Broncos
20. Twarpy's Giants
21. CCR's Bears
22. Ref's Colts
23. Doug's Raiders
24. DS' Eagles

118

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Tue, Aug 04, 2009, 18:29

HUH? Just email me when it is my turn!

119

Frick
ID: 4945458
Tue, Aug 04, 2009, 19:22

To prevent teams from tanking, all of the G20/24 leagues have a lottery (based on the NBA's) to determine the first round picks. This is my 3rd time winning one of the lotteries (2x b-ball 1x in football).

I might be interested in moving the first pick if the right offer comes along.

120

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Tue, Aug 04, 2009, 20:05

I'm losing several keepers this season. I'm looking for a QB, RB and a WR.

121

Peter N.
ID: 19721419
Tue, Aug 04, 2009, 20:21

Damn ref, are you looking for a new team? ;-)

122

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Tue, Aug 04, 2009, 20:27

Look at my team and you'll realize what I'm talkin about! ;)

Still need people to weigh in on the rules discussion.

Scheduling takes a lot of time to get them entered but hope to have it accomplished by the end of the week.

123

beastiemiked
ID: 35621411
Tue, Aug 04, 2009, 21:08

I think playoff teams(runner up playoff teams are ineligible) that haven't lost yet should be allowed to add players when they have injuries to positions other than WR/RB/QB. However, any adds that are made by playoff teams are not eligible players to be kept. The reason I'm not for adds from WR/RB/QB because policing injuries and eligibility would be very difficult and most teams all carry backup offensive starters at these positions. Carrying a backup at all positions is not feasible but a team shouldn't lose a playoff game from their DL or TE going down late in the season.

124

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Tue, Aug 04, 2009, 21:51

re: 123 OK that is different that GO's Free pickups regardless of injury and position. This could be a huge headache to manage, but I do see bmd's point. GO's is much easier, but easiest isn't always the best. The easiest of all is to leave it alone. ;)

Also, I forgot to mention that I still don't have an opinion on adding another IDP active slot (taken from a bench slot). While there may still be plenty of nice IDPs, it's hard enough at times to cover bye weeks. More strategy though I suppose. I'd say if I had to make a decision right now, I'd say leave it as it is, but I'm open to discussions on it.

Looks like KR/PR might finally be gaining a little support.

Taking sacks from 2 pts to 3 pts had support last year but we still need to see it now if it is going to be considered.

125

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Tue, Aug 04, 2009, 22:53

I think in RIFC the rules were for playoff teams, no adds for the QB, RB, WR or TE. To
me that seems fair, so I am agreeing (I think) with #123, except I added the TE position
as a no add position. But if you drop a guy, he can't be a keeper in 2010.

With such a short bench, 5 IDP's seems to be plenty.

127

StLCards
Dude
ID: 31010716
Wed, Aug 05, 2009, 11:38

If you're going to allow adds, then might as well allow all positions. A team is more likely to lose from a QB, RB, WR going down than they are to lose from a few points on a TE or a DL.

A backup at TE or DL is pretty easy to add before the post season begins, however, a backup QB or RB is not. The reason people don't want to add a backup TE or DL is because they don't want to have to cut a player to do so, even if that player is not going to help them that year. This new rule would allow them to keep the young rookie non playing guy rather than add a backup DL or TE.

If during the playoffs a Peyton Manning went down for instance, why wouldn't a team be allowed to add the backup? Of course another playoff team with a higher waiver priority might add said backup to block it too.

I don't mind adds during the playoffs, but as someone who has lost RBs at week 13 with no ability to add one, I would just as soon see all positions available. I think.

128

Perm Dude
ID: 154552311
Wed, Aug 05, 2009, 11:49

I agree with Cards. In or out on this one--gutting the rule by eliminating the skill players from being included isn't really progress on the issue.

The inability to keep any players picked up this way is a sufficient way to ensure that the rich don't get richer, IMO, and that would have been my only real objection.

129

Slizz
ID: 26692711
Wed, Aug 05, 2009, 12:36

I am for the version we use in Football 101 - When playoffs start, only playoff teams can make moves. No player added or dropped is eligible to be kept.

It keeps the rich from getting richer, while still allowing them to make transactions during the playoffs.

any update on the other proposed changes?

130

Frick
ID: 4945458
Wed, Aug 05, 2009, 12:52

I would be in favor of adding points for KR/PR.

I'm not as sure about adding another IDP. The waiver wire is pretty sparse, but it would get more players into the mix as bye weeks become more of an issue to deal with. Although with just a couple of injuries and some bad luck with keeper scheduling you suddenly have a very tough decision on dropping a decent player to fill in for a bye week.

131

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Wed, Aug 05, 2009, 13:04

Looks like we have traction on these three ideas:

1. Adding players in playoffs for the top 8 teams (need to define it more).
2. Adding that point for IDP sacks to take it from 2 to 3.
3. Adding KR and PR points.

Looks like we will have a vote of some sort soon. Rule 1 and 3 would be major rules changes. Still time to discuss or even add more ideas.

132

Toral
ID: 4155487
Wed, Aug 05, 2009, 13:06

I have forgotten -- was not the idea of pts for PR/KR associated with removing D/ST altogether (perhaps to be replaced by an extra IDP)?

133

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Wed, Aug 05, 2009, 13:14

132: No. Someone raised the issue of removing D/ST because we have IDPs.

KR/PR yds have come up a couple times before but hadn't gotten enough support to even take it to a vote before. My guess is that not enough chime in preseason and they bring it up during the season.

Sack yds should have come in last season but no one brought it back up until it was too late.

134

Peter N.
ID: 19721419
Wed, Aug 05, 2009, 13:17

There is no way we can eliminate D/ST fairly. Might as well forget about that.

I'm in favor of increasing sacks from 2 to 3 points.

I'm in favor of allowing playoff teams to add players(all positions) as long as they can't be kept.

I've been waffling on the KR/PR yards, but if the majority of the league is for it then I'm game. It would make things more interesting.

I would not be in favor of adding another IDP slot.

135

Toral
ID: 4155487
Wed, Aug 05, 2009, 13:26

Ref 133: No that's not what I was thinking of. Removing team D was discussed last season -- see post 256 of last year and thereabouts. You were very much against it.

Why cannot Team D be removed fairly, Pete? Because people have some real good keeper DSTs? If that's the reason I would agree, and suggest the idea take effect in the 2010 season.

In any case I would urge switching from DST to team D only. D/ST is a ridiculous hybrid, a "greak show" stat.

I would have no problems with any playoff additions who could not become keepers.

136

Peter N.
ID: 19721419
Wed, Aug 05, 2009, 13:36

Why cannot Team D be removed fairly, Pete? Because people have some real good keeper DSTs? If that's the reason I would agree, and suggest the idea take effect in the 2010 season.

Yes, that's precisely the reason why I'd be against it. It would probably benefit me since I have a couple of crappy D/ST units, but those with the Giants, Vikings, Steelers, etc. would be put at a significant disadvantage. I'm not sure how implementing the change in 2010 would make it more fair either.

137

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Wed, Aug 05, 2009, 15:17

I am against removing dst for the same reason Pete is. It would prob help me too--but some teams are loaded there. As far as removing ST from the equation...well that also impacts those teams. I am not as much as against that though as eliminating a postion altogether. I need to go in and look at how much the ST impacts the total D before being able to properly weigh in.

I have not seen anyone mention being for fumble return and int return yards.

As far as adding players in playoffs go, would everyone be for any of the 8 teams being able to add players any of the weeks since they are still playing for seeding and prize pool or only the ones who still had a chance to win it all?

138

Great One
ID: 4778411
Wed, Aug 05, 2009, 15:23

F101 we let all playoff teams make those moves because they are still playing for 3rd or whatever position. I know we have matchups for the Toilet Bowl etc, but I would think they should NOT be eligible to continue making moves. That is more for the fun of it.

139

Frick
ID: 4945458
Wed, Aug 05, 2009, 15:42

I would be for only allowing play-off teams to make moves during the play-offs (or having 2 sets of waivers, which would be a royal PITA, play-off then non-play-off teams). All of this is with the caveat that players picked up couldn't be kept the following year. Or leave it open to everyone and players could be kept the following year.

140

blackjackis21
Dude
ID: 034837521
Wed, Aug 05, 2009, 18:18

I'd echo Pete's thoughts in #134.

Keep D/ST
Increase sacks from 2 to 3 points.
Allow playoff teams to add players(all positions)as long as they can't be kept.
Ambivalent about return yardage.
I would not be in favor of adding another IDP slot.

141

Slizz
ID: 26692711
Wed, Aug 05, 2009, 20:32

For increasing Sacks from 2 to 3.

I think we are over complicating the playoff waiver process. What GO has proposed is the cleanest and easiest to manage. Why create extra work?

Injuries happen, and with today's technology almost all players will heal over the course of the off season. I mean Philip Rivers had a damn near MVP caliber season when he was only a couple months removed from a torn ACL.

Love having KR/PR in the league. I think it gives a couple players value that normally wouldn't have it, and it make our league that much more interesting.

Although I am clearly in the minority, I am for getting rid of the D/ST. With all the emphasis our league puts on IDP and its individual categories, I don't see any reason we should continue to have it. Its just as arbitrary as having a "Team Offense" category in addition to our offensive players. I am willing to bet that it would be unanimously turned down if that was up for proposal...if it is, I got dibs on the Saints :)

Also, I don't see how it will throw the balance of the league off considering how many teams can do a complete 180 in the off-season...I would be for keeping it this year and getting rid of it in 2010 so teams can get their contingency plans in order.

Without adding an additional roster spot, I don't think we could swing another IDP position. We are already scratching at the bottom.

142

Slackjawed Yokel
ID: 28723520
Wed, Aug 05, 2009, 21:23

Seems like I'm on board with most of these suggested changes (increase in sack points; allowing playoff teams to make moves - doesn't affect me though...; and adding return yards - of course after I deal Leon Washington).

A way to try to handle the addition of return yards and let's say the removal of D/ST would be to essentially change the weighting of each over the course of several seasons. For instance, the points a Team defense scored could be cut by a quarter over four seasons. This way the teams with strong defenses would still have some short-term value and even some value over the next couple of years.

143

coldwater coyotes
SuperDude
ID: 229272412
Wed, Aug 05, 2009, 22:24

All changes OK with me ex more IDPs....we have one too many
already.

144

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Wed, Aug 05, 2009, 23:40

FOR:
Sack 2 --> 3 points
KR/PR return yards
Keep DST
Non championship playoff teams cannot make ANY moves -- just remind everyone and
commish reverse those that slip in!

AGAINST:
Another IDP
If playoff roster changes are allowed, not allowed to be keepers for 2010

AMBIVALENT:
Idea of specifics of roster changes for playoff teams -- probably because I doubt it will
affect me!

145

deepsnapper
Leader
ID: 017103420
Thu, Aug 06, 2009, 10:16

Are we going to vote in this thread or set up a separate one for the official proposed league changes? I thought that's how it's been done in the past.

Or is this just discussion on which items are to be voted on. I'm a little confused as both seem to be occuring.

ds

146

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Thu, Aug 06, 2009, 10:29

We always do an email vote in these leagues. It's much faster and usually 100% participation that way.

Just trying to define what we will be voting for. The sack tweak could have been changed w/o a vote--but since we're going to have a vote anyhow, I'll include that. Also there is enough support to have a vote for the KR/PR yds and allowing add/drops in playoffs for 8 playoff teams. It seems that more seem to be inclined to allow unrestricted adds if we change the rule.

There is still time for discussion to add more to that list. Other ideas have come up and open to new ideas as well. Let's get them out there now.

147

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Thu, Aug 06, 2009, 10:33

CBS will allow us to restrict an owner from doing add/drops, so if we do change the rule we can go in and prevent the 16 non-playoff teams from making an add that could affect WW for the other 8 teams.

148

Building 7
ID: 471052128
Thu, Aug 06, 2009, 11:36

I would vote to make any changes effective next year. In the interest of fairness. Give teams time to adjust their rosters. Unless they are real minimal changes. Eliminating the team defense this year would be completely unfair. They can score as much as a QB. Not that I have any good ones.

149

Toral
ID: 4155487
Thu, Aug 06, 2009, 12:22

You might consider putting kick return votes to a vote with and without changing D/ST to plain D. Some people might vote for one but not both.

150

Perm Dude
ID: 154552311
Thu, Aug 06, 2009, 12:27

I don't suppose information on how the historical numbers would change from D/ST to D are available? I don't mind changing from D/ST to D if kick returners are added into the mix in a fair way.

In order words, I don't mind parsing out D/ST so that the ST part is kept in through meaningful individual player contributions.

151

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Thu, Aug 06, 2009, 14:03

There has been no support in eliminating the positions DST altogether.

ST don't give any points to return yards--simply TDs. However, if you take the ST off the DST--then you're losing block FGs/Punts/XPs/safeties/TDs when that team does one of these things when in ST formations. Blocks are a big part of the game and several of the ST players aren't guys who even play much on D. SO after considering these things, I'd be against removing ST from DST. But if there is enough support for it, it will definitely go up for a vote.

152

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Thu, Aug 06, 2009, 15:33

Schedule is done!

Will take some time to enter it into CBS.

153

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Thu, Aug 06, 2009, 15:50

Just checked the history with our schedules and during this season all teams will finally have gotten to face all other frachises.

154

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Thu, Aug 06, 2009, 16:43

Trying to collect all of the rules suggestions into one post again and see where we are. If a rule is considered to be a major rules change, it must have 2/3 of a vote. If it's a minor or a tweak it's simple majority or can be implemented w/o a vote if there is no opposition. If a proposal gets enough support (generally 3 or 4 people) we will take it to a vote.

(Proposed by, Major or Tweak, Support or Not enough yet)
1. Allow playoff teams to have free add/drops after regular season but all adds and drops may not be kept. (GO, M, S)
2. Count PR/KR yards to our current lineup at .1 pts per PR yd and .04 per KR yd. (GO/Ref, M, S)
3. Take Sacks from 2 to 3 pts. (Ref/Slizz, T, S)
4. Add another IDP active slot from a bench slot. (Slizz, M, N)
5. Eliminate DST position (Slizz, M, N)
6. Eliminate the ST from the DST (Toral, M, N)

155

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Thu, Aug 06, 2009, 16:54

Slizz just IMed me something that got me thinking about DST. He agreed that he didn't want to lose blocks, etc. He said his thinking of removing the position stemmed more from taking the focus to IDPs and away from a team. Another point about DST and I've disliked this from the beginning is that it's possible for a team to be w/o one and the only way to get one is to trade or forfeit every game. I've proposed before a rule that said everyone had to have a DST at all times but that got no support.

Anyhow, taking Slizz's and Yokel's idea...if the league feels that a DST is weighted too heavily, perhaps we should look at lowering the PA points? It's just a tough call because a DST can be a great "player" for a team and I know that if someone had the best RB and we suddenly were going to water down his points, they'd be unhappy and I'd have to agree with them. But I'd rather see something like Yokel suggested rather than strip an entire position from someone who had a lot of potential points. Based on the comments thus far, the league is not in favor of that anyway. Just thought I'd throw it out there.

156

Great One
ID: 24723111
Thu, Aug 06, 2009, 17:47

I would also not be in favor of dropping D/ST.

157

Toral
ID: 4155487
Thu, Aug 06, 2009, 18:09

I've proposed before a rule that said everyone had to have a DST at all times

Let's see...I guess that would mean that when the number of undrafted DSTs equals the number of teams without a DST, thereon no team with a DST could draft another one and each team without a DST would have to choose one with their next pick.

I'd actually support that.

158

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Thu, Aug 06, 2009, 20:50

Just to make sure I get this, I can start a DST on its bye week and still have a legal line up --no points,
but legal.

Finding a DST "sub" will be very difficult on weeks 7, 8 and 9 which have 6 teams on byes. For some
odd reason, week 10 only has two??? The other weeks (4, 5, 6) have 4 teams on bye.

Ya woulda thought they woulda equalized it a bit for us fantasy players!!

159

Perm Dude
ID: 154552311
Thu, Aug 06, 2009, 20:57

That's the only way to play it, Judy. There aren't enough NFL teams for every manager to have 2 D/ST's.

160

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Thu, Aug 06, 2009, 21:07

Actually my DST (the Jints) has one of the week 10 byes, so I think that makes me
one of the luckier ones...?

161

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Fri, Aug 07, 2009, 00:39

157: You'd always have to have a DST. It would take up a keeper slot. I think that's why it scared people away.

162

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Fri, Aug 07, 2009, 00:40

159: Right and that sometime leads to some interesting trades.

163

mjd
Leader
ID: 501381415
Fri, Aug 07, 2009, 01:24

I think it sucks to essentually make some lame trades just to cover
a D/ST bye week.

Just my opinion, I could be wrong.

164

beastiemiked
ID: 35621411
Fri, Aug 07, 2009, 11:53

I'm of the opinion that it's rarely correct to make a trade for a D/St unless you get them really cheap. Most of the tradeable D's are terrible.

165

deepsnapper
Leader
ID: 017103420
Fri, Aug 07, 2009, 13:47

I traded a K for a D/St about 3-4 years ago and ended up scoring negative points for the week so I quit trying to "cover" for D/St off weeks (or K for that matter).

166

Slizz
ID: 26692711
Mon, Aug 10, 2009, 12:21

Another reason why DST sucks! :)

167

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Mon, Aug 10, 2009, 13:56

I'm still working on inputting the schedule. When it gets done, I'm going to ask everyone to check their own and compare it to the master schedule posted in the football leagues thread here.

I'll put an email out to everyone at that time and also ask for final discussions on rules changes so we can send out the email vote. Need to get this vote done so we can get the keeper thread up, input any new rules into the system and start planning for our keepers and draft strategies. I really haven't been able to look at my own team yet except to know I need to make some trades or draft extremely well...or both!

168

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Mon, Aug 10, 2009, 16:44

Schedule is finally done as I posted in the CBS bboard. I've checked your emails against the CBS site and they all seem to match. DS, if you're not using the rotoguru2 email, you need to let us know what it is. It isn't bouncing but you say you're not getting them. The email vote requires full participation.

169

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Mon, Aug 10, 2009, 17:14

my schedule matches -- AZ CARDS

170

deepsnapper
Leader
ID: 017103420
Tue, Aug 11, 2009, 09:05

Thanks Ref, Guru shut down that server and I'll change it. I thought I'd checked CBS.

171

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Tue, Aug 11, 2009, 11:39

Here is a really crazy idea. A flex of the DST/IDP position. In other words, each week you
get to choose whether to use your DST or an IDP. So you could start 6 IDP and no DST or
the regular 5 IDP and 1 DST. You could pick an IDP who returns kicks...

Since there are so few DST to choose from and those you don't have probably stink, you can
use an IDP on the DST bye week or when you think you have a lousy DST matchup in your
game.

???? Whadayathink?

172

Toral
ID: 4155487
Tue, Aug 11, 2009, 11:43

Off the wall but brilliant. Eliminates the possibility of not having a D/ST at all and having to forfeit the season because everybody demands your first-born child in trade; provides an option to scoring a zero while your D/ST is on bye week.

173

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Tue, Aug 11, 2009, 11:58

CBS does not give us the flexibility to do that.

174

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Tue, Aug 11, 2009, 12:32

bummer -- could we trust each other to do it?

ie DST min - 0, max = 1
IDP min = 5 max = 6

175

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Tue, Aug 11, 2009, 12:41

Doesn't give us that flex option...

Gives us the option of
1. D
2. IDP
3. Both

DST
1. DST
2. 2 sep positions of D and ST

Flex Options
We use the flex position Running Back/Wide Receiver (RB-WR)

We use the flex position Wide Receiver/Tight End (WR-TE)

We use the flex position Running Back/Wide Receiver/Tight End (RB-WR-TE)

We use the flex position QB/RB/WR/TE (FLEX)

We use the flex position DL/LB/DB

We use a Practice squad

So it won't allow us to sub an IDP in place of a DST.

176

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Tue, Aug 11, 2009, 14:00

Re-reading...I think what Judy is saying is that we give the option of allowing us to have 0 DST or 1 and thn an extra IDP in DL, LB and DB. That would mean we'd have to check lineups for validation weekly. Only problem with that is, that a mistake could lead to a forfeit.

If that's something you'd want to consider, let's do so right now and I'll hold up the vote.

177

youngroman
Donor
ID: 02934823
Tue, Aug 11, 2009, 14:28

can't you set
10 other positions (QB, 2RB, 2WR, TE, K, DL, LB, DB)
0-1 DST
2-3 IDP
13 active

so you can't play 0 DST + 2 IDP or 1 DST and 3 IDP.
this way you don't need to check lineups.

178

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Tue, Aug 11, 2009, 14:44

Yup YR - that is what I was thinking, although don't we currently have more IDP than 2? I think my
set lineup page allows 1 DL, 1 LB, 1 DB and 2 flex.

does a "bad" lineup have to be a forfeit? Is that a requirement or do we have an option on that as
well. I did set up the MFL league to allow incomplete lineups, figuring you just lose the points you
don't have players for...?

179

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Tue, Aug 11, 2009, 15:13

There are some variables due to the IDP positions.

The problem stemmed from guys trying to play with 4 RBs. No TEs. It was unreal how "sneaky" several managers tried to get the one season we tried to use the flex rb/wr/te.

So, while we can set the min and max at 13 positions, it would be possible for people to use an extra RBs and/or WRs instead of an IDP and/or DST for example.

But, we can make it possible if the league wants to do that.

The problem with not forfeiting the game (we've NEVER had one) is that if someone uses extra offensive players instead of IDP, which ones are you going to choose to remove? It could be an innocent mistake as well since there won't be a flag if all mins and maxes are within range.

180

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Tue, Aug 11, 2009, 15:28

Actually when we tried to use the flex rb/wr/te positions AND the flex idp positions, it allowed guys to use min IDPs and hit maxes for all Off players. IOW, it combined the flex. CBS has an actual position that also allows us to use a DL/LB/DB so we could make it hard-coded so no one could pull that extra RB/WR/TE from an IDP slot. If we'd add this idea as rule, that would again be allowed w/o giving an illegal flag by the CBS site--even though it's illegal per our league rules.

Bottom line though, is Judy's idea something worth pursuing. If so, we can at least make it work--just will ahve to do some oversite work each week.

181

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Tue, Aug 11, 2009, 15:47

re 179:

If you go "sneaky" on the league, you deserve to lose all your points the week.
Something like 4 WR and not enough IDP would seem to be a deliberate move...

I just tried to add another RB giving me 6 RB+WR+TE and I put a flex IDP on reserve and
it said that I had to have 2 flex IDP's.

182

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Tue, Aug 11, 2009, 15:57

I also tried to not play a DE and it told me I needed one. So it looks like the min for IDP
is 1 DL, 1 LB, 1Db and the flex must be 2. Those are the warnings I get.

I tried to do 4 RB and no WR and it didn't work either. Also tried to go w/o an IDP but
with an extra RB and no good. Looks like the min and max are set pretty tight. Every
time I tried to be "sneaky", it would not let me.

How did people do the "sneaky" thing? It won't let me!

183

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Tue, Aug 11, 2009, 16:03

Right. What I did was to remove the flex wr/rb/te and make them have a min 1 max 3 and then set flex IDP only. Problem solved and then I went through and edited all the illegal lineups to make them legal and then emailed all owners. As long as we only have one flex or one set of min/maxes, you can't beat the system. But, if you add two Flex options, or different positions of min/maxes, then you can mix and match and still satisfy the requirements of CBS to have a "legal" lineup w/o truly being legal.

Anyhow, Judy's idea if I'm understanding correctly, is to do away with the requirement of having a DST on your team and being allowed to use that slot with an IDP.

Since we're not getting much feedback here, let me weigh-in with my thoughts thus far. At first, I thought, man if we can do this, it seems like a great idea. It still may be just that. As a commish I HATE peopel w/o DSTs taking chances in the draft and not taking them when they might be gone by the time it gets back to them. It has happened--but they've always managed to reach some sort of deal to get one in time via trade. In that same regard though, by not getting a decent DST, you run the risk of having to get one who may get you negative points. SO strategy comes into play. Is getting a bad D and a decent 3rd or 4th WR/RB etc. nec. better than a D who could cost you more than the points you gain with that particular player? Also, a DST can't get hurt. You know it's going to play. Could be great and go 40 points or horrible and go -7 (I think -10.5 is the worst it can do). So the position scarcity is strategic. I have made trades several times to cover bye weeks--including DST. You win some, you lose some. Need to figure out what is best for you that particular week and in the big picture. Many times trades deal with covering byes for byes. Win/Win--or so you hope.

So while I like the basic premise, I need to think some more about it. We need some others to support it to get it to a vote anyhow. Since the vote was set to be this afternoon--it would be nice to have some discussion either way.

184

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Tue, Aug 11, 2009, 16:14

re: 183 -- I didn't get an email.

Also, lack of response (seems to be me and you ref with YR and Toral tossed in -- 4/24 not
a big hit yet).

I think people are still at work? Maybe send an email asking people to read the thread
beginning at #171??

185

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Tue, Aug 11, 2009, 16:15

I held up the vote as I came to the thread to check one last tiem before sending it and saw your post.

186

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Tue, Aug 11, 2009, 16:36

I just went through all the DST averages from last season from CBS.

Looks like the worst DST avged 3.3. Then there was one that scored oat a 5.6 clip and then one at 6.3. All the rest were much better on avg. So on average, the DST is going to score points for you and can never be hurt. I also looked at the IDPs, but it's hard to tell for sure with all the byes and IDPs you have to get off WW. Also if we vote in return yards, some of those numbers could be much higher.

187

deepsnapper
Leader
ID: 017103420
Tue, Aug 11, 2009, 17:29

Sounds great to me. I'd prefer to play with IDPs whenever possible. Go Judy go!

188

Slackjawed Yokel
ID: 28723520
Tue, Aug 11, 2009, 21:37

I haven't completely thought through it, but I'd say it's worth putting up for a vote.

189

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Tue, Aug 11, 2009, 23:30

I'll be happy to include it in the vote, but w/o more discussion, it might be hard for it to garner 16 votes to pass.

190

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Tue, Aug 11, 2009, 23:38

WOW! Is everyone on vacation?? Not even mjd chimed in!

191

StLCards
ID: 44771123
Wed, Aug 12, 2009, 00:07

I'm against the DST/IDP flex. I'd be more willing to get rid of DST altogether and add more IDP, or get rid of IDP and keep DST. I really don't like having both.

Right now DST are valuable because it is required to have one. So if you have a good one now, you will be penalized. Someone that doesn't have a good DST can simply drop one altogether, use that extra spot for another keeper, and then rotate some LB or CB in each week. A bad D currently can even be a liability and score you negative points. An IDP isn't likely to do that.

K and QB are hard to cover too, so why not add a flex for them as well?

192

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Wed, Aug 12, 2009, 00:11

RE #96 Keepers due Aug 25, Draft to begin Aug 26.

I would like one day in between to see more carefully who is thrown back into the draft from the current
teams.

Are keepers posted here or do we need to check everyone's line ups?

Maybe keepers due Aug 24? That is after the third preseason game and I know the AAA#1 draft starts
officially on the 24th.

193

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Wed, Aug 12, 2009, 00:57

Well there is game being played on Mon Aug 24th--Monday Night Football. So figured keepers could be due sometime aroudn Noon on the 25th and draft could start perhaps around the 6pmish on the 26th? I am flexibile on this. Just want to be fair to anyone who might have a player going in that MNF game.

194

Slizz
ID: 26692711
Wed, Aug 12, 2009, 01:34

Great idea Judy!!!

As you already know, I am for getting rid of the DST and making G24 more of a individual, player-focused league. However, I have come to my senses and recognize that it would hurt those who already have quality defenses such as CHI :-D, PIT, NYG, TEN, etc. (Thx Cards)

To compensate for this (I know it was mentioned in an earlier post) we could propose a timeline (such as 2011) to when DST could be removed completely.

Since teams in the salary cap era turn over their personnel and coaching staffs year after year, elite units can often turn into crappy units (i.e. Green Bay 2007-08). Using that example, its entirely possible that PIT, NYG, and TEN could be "average" by than and those owners wouldn't be as hellbent on keeping them.

Q: Slizz, that sounds great and all...but what about the owners who are lucky enough to own the teams that replace the PIT's, NYG's, TEN's, generate a solid stat line in 2010 or are projected to have a solid stat line 2011?

A: Great question, and I'm glad you asked. I understand that it would be unfortunate to those owners who were so lucky to benefit from that. However, if I was one of those owners who all of the sudden has an elite defense, it would not bother me one bit having to drop the DST. I would fully understand that this was for the greater good of the league and it helps level the playing field across the board. I can only hope that other owners adequately plan for that transition by taking advantage of the IDP/DST Flex, which Judy has proposed. That way, those who have good DST now likely won't be as affected and have the opportunity to plan for that transition in 2011.

I know the case can be made about RIFC successfully utilizes both DST & IDP. RIFC is only 14 teams and is a non-keeper league...so if you get stuck with a crappy defense, its all on you not drafting well. In G24, you're pretty much stuck with the hand you were dealt, or the Detroit Lions off waivers. Sure, you might be able to catch lightning in a bottle (Ref and Tennessee a couple years back in the draft). But more often than not, you're picking at the bottom of the barrel for a team that really doesn't add any value. At least with Judy's suggestion, it would give us the ability to get a guy with little to no downside.

If we were to do this, would we adjust DST scoring at all? Or would that still be kept the same?

195

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Wed, Aug 12, 2009, 13:54

If this were to be done we could certainly do a stat analysis of the actual results. How many times were DST
used and how many points/game did each get? Then how many points/game did the lowest scoring IDP
get?

You could get league wide averages as well as individual team averages -- to see how each manager did.
We could keep a SS with a running total all season.

That would give data for future changes.

196

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Wed, Aug 12, 2009, 13:59

re # 193 -- that timing works.

197

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Wed, Aug 12, 2009, 14:30

Ok -- some help needed. I looked over the 2008 keeper lists just to see what the trends were. This is
what I found for defensive folks (realizing of course that different people have different wish lists):
2 kept 1 DTS/3 IDP/1K
7 kept 1 DST/2 IDP AND 4 K
10 kept 1 DST/1 IDP and 6 K
1 kept 2 IDP
1 kept 1 DST
1 kept 2 DST/1 IDP
1 kept no DST/IDP
1 is missing...

Hmm. What does it all mean??? Any thoughts without, of course, giving away your keeper strategy?

I was surprised at the number (11) of kickers kept.

198

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Wed, Aug 12, 2009, 15:26

We could also start the draft on the 27th around Noonish. Typically the first several picks come off the board quickly.

With lack of discussion on Judy's proposal--we will go ahead with the vote today. Looks like we have 4 things to vote on. 3 major (requiring 2/3 majority or 16 yes votes) and 1 minor (requiring simple majority of 13 yes votes). The minor deosn't have to go to a vote since there has been no opposition--but I'd like to take it there since there is already a vote happening.

Hope to get the vote out this evening. In the meantime, you may continue discussing things. I will check back here before sending the vote out.

199

skinneej
Leader
ID: 040625911
Wed, Aug 12, 2009, 16:06

Nice suggestion Judy. I also like the idea of having an option slot for either DST or an additional IDP. In most weeks the DST will score more points, but in a bye week situation or a bad matchup, it would be a good strategy to limit the risk of a negative outing or no points at all. I'd rather get 4-5 points from a average backup IDP than the alternative.

This approach allows those with good DST to still keep an advantage without taking away the spot altogether, and gives others options. I don't see any way to fairly eliminate a position once it is established in a keeper league and would not favor it even if it would be an advantage to me. I can only rememeber one or two seasons where one of my DSTs put up consistently good numbers, so I have usually just rotated the middle to lower ones each season, and made mid-season trades to cover byes. I never trade just to cover a bye though, as I make sure I get a team with a good matchup. I don't remember ever getting negative points from a bye week DST replacement.

I personally like making minor swap deals to cover TE, K or DST since it encourages league activity. Sometimes the deals get bigger, but mostly it is swapping a K for a backup TE or something like that. Of course, I also have been accused (rightfully so) for being a trade-aholic!

200

mjd
Leader
ID: 501381415
Wed, Aug 12, 2009, 16:42

It does suck to have a poor DST to start with, then have to trade
for another bad one to cover a bye week, but I'd hate to do
anything that stifles league activity, no matter how insignificant
some trade might appear. As previously stated this can lead to
more significant trades.

Certainly it's difficult to be in a league where not every team
even has 2 DST. But this is an elite league and not meant to be
easy. Deciding to trade for a DST to cover a bye and risk a
negative number or taking a zero by doing nothing is part of
the strategy involved in this league.

Having a second DST to trade away to someone to cover a bye
week has value no matter how bad the DST is.

I honestly have no strog feelings either way. I'm just not sure
it's good for the league, in general, to do anything that might
decrease league activity.

201

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Wed, Aug 12, 2009, 18:36

Vote has been sent out.

202

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Thu, Aug 13, 2009, 12:21

Cards -- when you were working with mfl, how did you add your players to your roster?
Did you open waivers? In AAA, I'd like managers to add their players as they are selected.

You can reply to my email or here.

203

youngroman
Donor
ID: 02934823
Thu, Aug 13, 2009, 13:23

Ref - I just checked my email and I did not get the vote. can you resend it to me? thanks.

204

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Thu, Aug 13, 2009, 14:19

YR, I got your vote. It looks like there are 17 votes in now. I'm going to re-send the vote to the ones who still haven't returned the vote. Hopefully we can this finalized quickly.

205

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Thu, Aug 13, 2009, 14:56

21 votes in now.

Doug just sent me this clarification via his email vote and I told him this was accurate...

...you can't keep your adds, and if you drop someone you can't keep them either. Even if you add back a player who was on your end of regular season roster (but who you dropped one week in playoffs, then picked back up the next week, etc.) you cannot keep them. Must be fully continuous on your roster to be eligible to be kept. Also, to help avoid any confusion the following season, the commishes should probably ensure that all keeper-ineligible players are dropped immediately at end of playoffs.

206

Perm Dude
ID: 154552311
Thu, Aug 13, 2009, 15:08

Doug's note is a good one. So, to be clear, the pool of possible keepers on a team is the roster (active and bench players) of the last regular season game, less any players dropped by a team during the playoffs, right?

Fred

207

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Thu, Aug 13, 2009, 15:18

Correct.

I really appreciate the feedback too as I want to make sure that everyone understands our rules. I try to do that before the vote and again if a rule is adopted as I enter it into our League Constitution.

208

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Thu, Aug 13, 2009, 17:01

22 Votes in. Still awaiting AF and shade's ballots.

209

StLCards
Dude
ID: 31010716
Thu, Aug 13, 2009, 17:46

RE 202: I think if you want owners to be able to add to their own team then just start waivers with instant pickups. I think I did that from the league calender. Also make sure that the all player option is selected (or whatever it is called) otherwise free agents and the like won't show up.

If you have trouble I can log in and see what I did.

210

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Thu, Aug 13, 2009, 21:15

Ok that is what I tried, but the pick up (Vick who is now rumored to be signed by the Eagles --
you heard it first here), generated an email to everyone. That will be a pain. I have time to do it
and it looks easy -- "load rosters".

211

Perm Dude
ID: 154552311
Thu, Aug 13, 2009, 21:16

Wait a minute--I put it in the Vick thread first!

212

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Thu, Aug 13, 2009, 21:31

WOW

Not sure I understand the move, but WOW

213

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Thu, Aug 13, 2009, 23:09

OK, AF makes 23 votes in. Not sure what is up with gshade.

Anyhow here are the voting results:

1. (Proposed by Great One, Needs 16 votes) Allow all 8 playoff teams to have free add/drops after regular season and throughout playoffs but the adds/drops may not be kept.

Yes 21 No 2 Result: Passed

2. (Proposed by Great One/Ref, Needs 16 votes) Count PR/KR yards to our current lineup at .1 pts per PR yd and .04 per KR yd.

Yes 19 No 4 Result: Passed

3. (Proposed by Ref/Slizz, Needs 13 votes) Take IDP Sacks from 2 to 3 pts each.

Yes 22 No 1 Result: Passed

4. (Proposed by Judy, Needs 16 votes) Do away with the requirement of having a DST in your active lineup (and on your team) and being allowed to use that slot with an IDP Flex.

Yes 9 No 14 Result: Failed

I will get the new stats input and language for #1 put into our bylaws.

214

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Thu, Aug 13, 2009, 23:37

How does this sound:

Once the final freeze of week 13 occurs, The 16 teams not in the Super Bowl Playoffs may NOT make any adds or drops. The 8 playoff teams may make moves throughout the playoffs. HOWEVER, any player added or dropped will not be eligible to be kept and will be removed at seasons end.

215

deepsnapper
Leader
ID: 017103420
Thu, Aug 13, 2009, 23:44

[212] - That's not "WOW", that's BOW WOW isn't it?

216

deepsnapper
Leader
ID: 017103420
Thu, Aug 13, 2009, 23:47

[214] Sounds good to me Ref.

217

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Fri, Aug 14, 2009, 00:23

re 215

actually for me it is meow and purr...

218

StLCards
Dude
ID: 31010716
Fri, Aug 14, 2009, 12:52

Additionally, any player dropped during the playoffs will be ineligible as a keeper the following season, even if he were on the roster at the end of the regular season.

219

StLCards
Dude
ID: 31010716
Fri, Aug 14, 2009, 12:54

I think it is covered in the "however" sentence, but probably needs clarification a bit.

220

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Fri, Aug 14, 2009, 14:23

re: 219 will do

I accepted a trade with AF via email and he re-confirmed it via text msg. He will get to a PC later to accept it on CBS.

ATL gets Indy's 1st and 4th rounders
Indy gets ATL's 5th and 6th rounders and Schaub.

221

Slizz
ID: 497421413
Fri, Aug 14, 2009, 14:42

Ref, I think I speak for everyone in this league when I say this.

Thanks for all of your hard work in terms of running this league. Without you, this league wouldn't be what it is today.

222

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Fri, Aug 14, 2009, 14:55

re: 221 Thanks for the kind words. Don''t forget about Cards though, he did 90% of the MFL testing and is a huge help doing all of the treasury. He also knows his way around the commish shell and can do anything I can if need be. Also we thank the active players because w/o you this game wouldn't be what it is today.

RE: playoff add/drops rewroding

This is what it says now:

Once the final freeze of week 13 occurs, The 16 teams not in the Super Bowl Playoffs may NOT make any adds or drops. The 8 playoff teams may make moves throughout the playoffs. HOWEVER, any player added or dropped during the playoffs will be ineligible as a keeper the following season, even if he was on the roster at the end of the regular season. A commish will remove all ineligible keepers sometime after we crown a champion.

223

Great One
ID: 4778411
Fri, Aug 14, 2009, 15:47

Thanks Ref and Cards!

I think that rule is absolutely perfect and well worded.
Think it takes a lot of the pressure off of "hope my guy doesn't break a leg" luck trying to win in the playoffs.

224

Action Figures
ID: 43716719
Fri, Aug 14, 2009, 21:26

Rule # 3 There was 1 NO vote.

Who was that?

I feel like Spurrier.

225

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Mon, Aug 17, 2009, 01:07

Yeah AF, you ruined the unanimous vote! ;)

Time to firm up the keeper due date and draft date. Is the timeline I presented good or is there anyone else with another thought?

226

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Mon, Aug 17, 2009, 13:53

Wow, jsut saw on ESPN where Vikings players are saying that Favre is indeed coming back and it's a done deal. WTF! Maybe he just wanted to avoid training camp?

Man, my keeper list is really boggling now.

227

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Mon, Aug 17, 2009, 17:35

Keepers have been set up on your lineup page.

228

Perm Dude
ID: 154552311
Mon, Aug 17, 2009, 18:16

Thanks. I was just looking through my team today, realizing how many have to get tossed.

229

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Mon, Aug 17, 2009, 22:38

Nah --Favre is just p****d that Vick is taking all the headlines.

230

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Mon, Aug 17, 2009, 22:42

so should we check keepers now or wait -- what is the best strategy?

231

deepsnapper
Leader
ID: 017103420
Tue, Aug 18, 2009, 06:18

[230] - you can always check them now and change them later. The CBS drops won't take place until the day of the draft.

Ref or Cards will start a thread which we post our "official" keepers & drops in within the next few days or so, If you don't post them in it, the Commish's pick your keepers for you.

I'm medicated a lot, but that's how we've done it in the past. lol

232

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Tue, Aug 18, 2009, 10:05

At times we have them due at midnight and they drop automaticlaly, but for this league we normally change them to manual and drop all non-checked players after the deadline. If CBS and keeper thread differs--the thread takes priority. If they are not posted, the commishs will choose them for you with the result being final.

233

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Tue, Aug 18, 2009, 11:38

Of course Favre signs right after I trade for another QB.

234

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Tue, Aug 18, 2009, 23:32

I've checked 8 of my keepers -- undecided on #9. Anybody want any of these?

QB Rosenfels, QB O'Sullivan, RB M Bennett, WR R Brown, WR B Stokely, PK Rackers, DL Kiwanuka, LB
S Phillips, LB L Hill, DB Rogers, DB A Cromartie

235

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Wed, Aug 19, 2009, 01:02

At least Favre's signing made Berrian a stud for me again.

236

Promize
ID: 551462816
Thu, Aug 20, 2009, 07:58

Guess we won' be updating our trophy anytime soon? :)

But sure is nice.

Trophy Design

237

Perm Dude
ID: 154552311
Thu, Aug 20, 2009, 10:05

Trade announcement:

Cleveland Browns trade pick 1.05 to the Baltimore Ravens for Chris Gamble and 1.08.

238

deepsnapper
Leader
ID: 017103420
Thu, Aug 20, 2009, 11:20

Plaxico accepts a 2 year prison sentence on a reduced gun charge.

Guilty

239

Perm Dude
ID: 154552311
Thu, Aug 20, 2009, 11:29

Yahoo story on it.

Two years for shooting yourself in the leg.

240

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Thu, Aug 20, 2009, 11:40

Wanna open the thread for the keeper list soon? I know who 8 of mine are...

As a newbie, it would help me cross off those who are keepers on my cheat sheets... Then
I'll need to do a lot of research!

241

beastiemiked
ID: 35621411
Thu, Aug 20, 2009, 13:44

I'm looking to trade Thomas Jones, Fred Taylor Leron Mclain, or Patrick Crayton for a young to semi young linebacker keeper. Would be willing to go 2 for 1. Jones is obviously going to take more to get than the others.

242

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Thu, Aug 20, 2009, 14:45

240: Yes I will have the keeper thread up today. You will be able to change your keepers up until the deadline.

241: I have some nice LBs that I won't be able to keep now that I suddenly have two QBs.

238: I hadn't planned on keeping Plax, but if anyone else thinks they might--shoot me an offer--or you can draft him. I am not sure how much of that time he will have to srve--but many states--it's just 50% so he'd be able to play the following year. Toral has kept Vick all through his "away time." If not for my IDPs, I'd probably keep Plax too.

237: I'll get to that trade asap. Lotsa stuff going on irl...

243

Perm Dude
ID: 154552311
Thu, Aug 20, 2009, 14:48

...shoot me an offer...

Heh. Aim low.

244

mjd
Leader
ID: 501381415
Thu, Aug 20, 2009, 15:00

I might be interested in trading a LB for one of the above.

Does D'Qwell Jackson LB CLE or Lufa Tatupu LB SEA interest you? I
was planning on keeping at least one of these guys.

Shoot me an email if interested in continuing this conversation.

245

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Thu, Aug 20, 2009, 15:05

Keepers: On the CBS site you are permitted to check less than 9. I think I only have 7 or 8 checked since I am not sure which way I am going yet.

Got to see if it's worth trading Favre or not. Shaub can't ever seem to stay healthy but I'm thinking this will be his year *croses fingers*. Nver would have given up a 1st and 4th for anotehr qb though if I had known Favre was returning. At least he came back before keepers were due!!!

Now gotta start studying players. I really haven't even had a chance to study the draft or anything in depth as of yet.

246

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Thu, Aug 20, 2009, 15:49

Keeper Thread has been set up.

PD, let us know which extra player you'd like to drop from that trade.

247

deepsnapper
Leader
ID: 017103420
Thu, Aug 20, 2009, 17:32

[242] With good behavior, Plax can get out after 20 months and the Commmish has already ruled he is eligible to sign immediately upon release. No Additional suspension for Plax

Of course that means here has to be a collective bargaining agreement in place for the 2011 season which isn't a guarantee at this point.

248

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Thu, Aug 20, 2009, 18:01

RE: 236. Wow $400 for the "cheap" one? No thanks. Think we will stick to what we have. Will post it when ds is able to send me the pic.

249

Perm Dude
ID: 154552311
Thu, Aug 20, 2009, 18:34

Please drop Boley. Thanks.

251

deepsnapper
Leader
ID: 017103420
Fri, Aug 21, 2009, 11:37

[248] Ref - I sent 6 pics to your GMail acct on 8/11. I just resent the email to you & Kirk so hopefully it'll get through to one of you.

252

gshade
ID: 43725129
Fri, Aug 21, 2009, 11:56

Hey Gurupie 24's. First, I want to apologize for missing the vote and for basically no activity since the end of the season.

Second, any one interested in Derrick Mason, WR, BAL? If you'd be able to fit him into your keepers and would be willing to part w/ draft pick(s) let me know...

I'm probably not going to keep him this year because I have a couple of good young WRs I want to hang on to (E. Royal & A. Gonzalez).

253

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Fri, Aug 21, 2009, 12:24

251: Got it! G24 Trophy

I was going to put the pic in here, but just hit the link. DS, send me some quotes, etc. and I'll finish the story on CBS site.

254

beastiemiked
ID: 35621411
Fri, Aug 21, 2009, 20:11

MJD and I have agreed to a trade.

Patrick Crayton for D Q jackson.

255

mjd
Leader
ID: 501381415
Fri, Aug 21, 2009, 20:14

Confirmed

256

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Fri, Aug 21, 2009, 22:46

Nice to see IDPs getting traded. We had hoped this would happen.

257

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Fri, Aug 21, 2009, 23:44

I don't feel like I can do anything (more) until I see the keeper lists... Although my
McNabb/Jackson/Hightower moves should count for something...

My lineup is currently not too good -- gotta see what gets tossed that I could use!

Since we are not using Kafenatid to draft, do we need to keep track of who is next by
ourselves? I see the draft order in #117. How, more exactly, does it "work"?

258

Doug
ID: 3630123
Sat, Aug 22, 2009, 00:20

There will be a draft thread and someone (most likely Ref who works tirelessly on this stuff and doesn't get enough thanks) will post a full round-by-round pick sequence in the opening post that takes into account all trades thus far.

259

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Sat, Aug 22, 2009, 00:36

Last year's draft thread

Last year's draft discussion

260

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Sun, Aug 23, 2009, 19:57

Judy, Suggs is LB in CBS. Not sure if that matters or not as far as your keepers, but wanted to give you a heads up.

261

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Sun, Aug 23, 2009, 20:13

Ok THanks - makes no difference...I'm keepin' him regardless!

262

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Mon, Aug 24, 2009, 01:07

Keepers Due by Noon ET on Tues Aug 25. Draft starts approx 6 pm Wed Aug 26th.

263

beastiemiked
ID: 35621411
Mon, Aug 24, 2009, 01:32

Fred Taylor can be had for cheap if anyone is looking for a RB.

264

Doug
ID: 467191415
Mon, Aug 24, 2009, 09:38

QB Vince Young
RB Lamont Jordan
LB Curtis Lofton

...could all possibly be keepers and are available cheap, let me know if you're interested in any of these.

265

Building 7
ID: 471052128
Mon, Aug 24, 2009, 11:43

gshade: I sent you a trade offer. Let me know what you think, there is only about a day left.

266

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Mon, Aug 24, 2009, 16:03

With all the nice IDPs now, it's much much harder to figure out keeper list. Been sorting through info and back and forths on offers today and there is so much to think about! ;) Right now I am stuck with how high of a pick is enough and how much do I offer if I want to get a player? And then, is this player I'd get better than a guy I'd have to trade away or dump? We used to have 9 Keeps with 15 total players. Now with 9 Keeps and 20 total players--along with position scarcity--it's really difficult.

267

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Mon, Aug 24, 2009, 16:36

Gee Ref, I don't have that problem, I only have 9 guys worth keeping and even at that low number it
was a coin toss to keep #9.
This team could take a while to produce unless McNabb and D Jack and the Jints carry me!

268

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Mon, Aug 24, 2009, 17:04

I'm about to accept two deals and one is so long that it couldn't all fit in the offer box as it is based on incentives. But will be confirmed in here later.

269

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Mon, Aug 24, 2009, 17:13

Deal one: I get fred jackson and a 7th from doug for my 6th

Deal two: I send out Hixon and josh wilson to slizz. The deal gets me a 4th this year for his 10th.

Also it gets me a 10th next year and it's upgradeable based on these incentives.

If Hixon gets 800 yds rec it becomes an 8th rounder; 1000 yds = 7th; 1100 yds = 6th; 1200 = 5th. Also, so he is not handcuffed on trading his picks, if Hixon hits one of these incentives and Slizz has already traded that pick, he will upgrade it to the next highest pick he has remaining.

270

blackjackis21
ID: 197572416
Mon, Aug 24, 2009, 17:57

Trade announcement:

I (St. Louis Rams) give Alex Smith, TE, NE and my 5.09 pick to Doug's Raiders for Ladell Betts, RB, WAS and Doug's 11.23 pick.

271

gshade
ID: 77252417
Mon, Aug 24, 2009, 18:25

trade announcement:

Chiefs trade Derrick Mason, WR, BAL and 2009 9th round pick to Ravens for 2009 8th round pick.

272

Building 7
ID: 43735169
Mon, Aug 24, 2009, 18:29

Trade confirmed in #271.

273

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Mon, Aug 24, 2009, 19:23

I'm glad the fury of activity is coming tonight instead of tomorrow morning!

RE: 270 The CBS deal doesn't have the TE coming back

274

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Mon, Aug 24, 2009, 19:48

re bj21 trade. Doug said that the TE wsan't mentioend so we assumed you wanted to get rid of him to stay under max players so I dropped him for you.

275

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Mon, Aug 24, 2009, 21:09

RE: 269 I just realized that I typoed the Hixon incentive compensation. It should read:

The pick is upgradeable based on Hixon's performance. If Hixon gets 800 yds rec it becomes an 9th rounder; 900=8th;1000 yds = 7th; 1100 yds = 6th; 1200 = 5th. If Slizz has already traded that pick, he will upgrade it to the next highest pick.

276

Toral
ID: 4155487
Tue, Aug 25, 2009, 08:59

Trade:

Philadelphia sends John Abraham DL and its 10th round dc to New Orleans for its 8th round dc.

277

deepsnapper
Leader
ID: 017103420
Tue, Aug 25, 2009, 09:13

Trade confirmed in [276]

278

Doug
ID: 3630123
Tue, Aug 25, 2009, 09:49

QB Vince Young
LB Curtis Lofton

Still available for anyone interested in them as keepers.

279

Building 7
ID: 471052128
Tue, Aug 25, 2009, 10:46

Trade announcement:

Baltimore trades Ronald Curry WR and pick 1.05 acquired from PermDude to Atlanta for pick 1.02. My apologies to whoever has to keep up with this stuff.

280

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Tue, Aug 25, 2009, 10:54

Trades have been documented in our league rules. After keepers have been finished I'll start working on the draft grid--along with everything else. We have about an hour left and barring trades, four more have to post their keepers. I haven't seen CBS to make sure they have all been checked. Please double-check your keepers on CBS to make sure they match your list in the keeper thread.

281

Slizz
ID: 487271622
Tue, Aug 25, 2009, 10:57

i'm guessing bmd also uses google chrome :)

282

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Tue, Aug 25, 2009, 11:21

I have to be away for a few. I'll try to get back before the deadline, but if I can't--if you make a trade before the deadline--post it in here as well as CBS before Noon ET and I'll process it.

283

deepsnapper
Leader
ID: 017103420
Tue, Aug 25, 2009, 11:53

Cards - check your email or CBS.

284

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Tue, Aug 25, 2009, 12:41

OK, I'm back. It looks like AF missed the Keeper deadline. Odd since we were talking via email last night and I was razzing him becuse he didn't know how many Keepers he needed.

I will look over his team and pick his. If anyone wants to chime in--it's fine but I don't spend much time on this and when I post it will become final.

285

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Tue, Aug 25, 2009, 12:44

AF did checkbox his keepers on CBS so we will go with those. Have to post them.

286

deepsnapper
Leader
ID: 017103420
Tue, Aug 25, 2009, 13:07

Ref - you're up on Kaf

287

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Tue, Aug 25, 2009, 14:44

thx DS. A million things going on at once it seems. AF's Keepers are posted. A few players posted as dropped were subsequently traded. I don't have editing powers to delete them and I'm not worried about it. All the keepers are posted. Need to match them up with CBS now and run them. Then you can start planning for the draft tomorrow.

288

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Tue, Aug 25, 2009, 16:32

Keepers have been processed. Everyone had 9 players checked. I skimmed every roster. I didn't see any disagreements between posted and checked. If there is a disagreement and you bring it up before the draft opens, then the rotoguru list takes precedence. Once the draft opens--the CBS roster is set.

Time to research!!! Will attempt to get draft order grid up tonight.

289

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Tue, Aug 25, 2009, 17:30

DS' article from his title run last year is finished.

290

Action Figure
ID: 527462516
Tue, Aug 25, 2009, 17:47

I had my keepers declared before noon. I thought my only obligation was to check the boxes and the rest was automated. Where did I get that idea?

No idea.

291

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Tue, Aug 25, 2009, 22:04

I have the draft grid done and getting ready to post it here. PLEASE check it over to make sure it's accurate. I noticed that Toral traded his 11th twice so one turned into a 10th. But he shouldn't worry too much as he has FOUR 1st rounders. WOW!

293

Perm Dude
ID: 154552311
Tue, Aug 25, 2009, 22:26

8-20 B7's Browns receive PD's Browns 1.05 pick for 1.08 (Gamble)

and

8-24 B7's Browns receive gshade's Chiefs 8th rounder for his 9th (Mason)

These should be B7's Ravens

294

Building 7
ID: 43735169
Tue, Aug 25, 2009, 22:34

8-24 B7's Browns receive gshade's Chiefs 8th rounder for his 9th (Mason)

Should read:

8-24 B7's Ravens receive gshade's Chiefs 9th rounder for his 8th (Mason)

295

Perm Dude
ID: 154552311
Tue, Aug 25, 2009, 22:40

Deja vu!

296

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Tue, Aug 25, 2009, 23:17

do we pick here or will there be a new thread?

297

deepsnapper
Leader
ID: 017103420
Tue, Aug 25, 2009, 23:21

8-25 DS' Eagles receive Toral's Saints 8th rounder for his 10th (Abraham)

It's listed in the trades, but not reflected in the grid.

298

Doug
ID: 3630123
Wed, Aug 26, 2009, 00:42

Judy, there will be a separate thread for draft (and for discussion as well I believe)... it's just posted here so we can double-check and find any errors to make sure it's right when the new thread starts. I think. :)

299

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Wed, Aug 26, 2009, 01:34

RE 293, 294, 297 Fixed! Thank you! That's why I try and get this up early before it is in the official draft thread. I will re-post it here again.

300

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Wed, Aug 26, 2009, 01:42

	Round 1	Round 2	Round 3	Round 4	Round 5	Round 6
1	Fricks Vikings	AFs Falcons	AFs Falcons	AFs Falcons	Refs Colts	Refs Colts
2	B7s Ravens	Fricks Vikings	Fricks Vikings	Fricks Vikings	Fricks Vikings	Promizes Seahawks
3	Torals Saints	mjds Chargers	mjds Chargers	mjds Chargers	mjds Chargers	mjds Chargers
4	mjds Chargers	PDs Browns	PDs Browns	PDs Browns	PDs Browns	PDs Browns
5	AFs Falcons	Torals Saints	Torals Saints	SJs Packers	Torals Saints	Torals Saints
6	Yokels Jaguars	Yokels Jaguars	Yokels Jaguars	Yokels Jaguars	Yokels Jaguars	Yokels Jaguars
7	GShades Chiefs	GShades Chiefs	GShades Chiefs	GShades Chiefs	GShades Chiefs	GShades Chiefs
8	PDs Browns	B7s Ravens	B7s Ravens	B7s Ravens	B7s Ravens	B7s Ravens
9	BJ21s Rams	BJ21s Rams	BJ21s Rams	BJ21s Rams	Dougs Raiders	BJ21s Rams
10	Cards 49ers	Cards 49ers	Cards 49ers	Cards 49ers	Cards 49ers	Cards 49ers
11	Judys Cardinals	Slizzs Bills	Judys Cardinals	Judys Cardinals	Judys Cardinals	Judys Cardinals
12	YRs Bengals	YRs Bengals	YRs Bengals	YRs Bengals	YRs Bengals	YRs Bengals
13	Torals Saints	Torals Saints	GOs Jets	SJs Packers	GOs Jets	GOs Jets
14	Torals Saints	GOs Jets	Slizzs Bills	Refs Colts	Slizzs Bills	Slizzs Bills
15	Promizes Seahawks	Fricks Vikings	Promizes Seahawks	Promizes Seahawks	Promizes Seahawks	Promizes Seahawks
16	Torals Saints	SJs Packers	SJs Packers	PDs Browns	SJs Packers	SJs Packers
17	Peter Ns Cowboys	Peter Ns Cowboys	Peter Ns Cowboys	Peter Ns Cowboys	Peter Ns Cowboys	Peter Ns Cowboys
18	bmds Texans	bmds Texans	bmds Texans	bmds Texans	bmds Texans	bmds Texans
19	Coyotes Broncos	Coyotes Broncos	Coyotes Broncos	Coyotes Broncos	Coyotes Broncos	Coyotes Broncos
20	Twarpys Giants	Twarpys Giants	Twarpys Giants	Slizzs Bills	Twarpys Giants	Twarpys Giants
21	CCRs Bears	CCRs Bears	CCRs Bears	CCRs Bears	CCRs Bears	CCRs Bears
22	AFs Falcons	Refs Colts	Refs Colts	AFs Falcons	Refs Colts	Dougs Raiders
23	Dougs Raiders	Dougs Raiders	Dougs Raiders	Dougs Raiders	Dougs Raiders	Dougs Raiders
24	DS Eagles	DS Eagles	DS Eagles	DS Eagles	DS Eagles	DS Eagles

	Round 7	Round 8	Round 9	Round 10	Round 11
1	AFs Falcons	AFs Falcons	AFs Falcons	AFs Falcons	AFs Falcons
2	Fricks Vikings	Fricks Vikings	Fricks Vikings	Fricks Vikings	Fricks Vikings
3	mjds Chargers	mjds Chargers	mjds Chargers	mjds Chargers	mjds Chargers
4	PDs Browns	PDs Browns	PDs Browns	PDs Browns	PDs Browns
5	Torals Saints	DS Eagles	GOs Jets	Slizzs Bills	GOs Jets
6	Yokels Jaguars	Yokels Jaguars	Yokels Jaguars	Yokels Jaguars	Yokels Jaguars
7	GShades Chiefs	GShades Chiefs	B7s Ravens	GShades Chiefs	GShades Chiefs
8	B7s Ravens	GShades Chiefs	B7s Ravens	B7s Ravens	B7s Ravens
9	BJ21s Rams	BJ21s Rams	BJ21s Rams	BJ21s Rams	BJ21s Rams
10	Cards 49ers	Cards 49ers	Cards 49ers	Cards 49ers	Cards 49ers
11	Judys Cardinals	Judys Cardinals	Judys Cardinals	Judys Cardinals	Judys Cardinals
12	YRs Bengals	YRs Bengals	YRs Bengals	YRs Bengals	YRs Bengals
13	GOs Jets	GOs Jets	GOs Jets	Slizzs Bills	GOs Jets
14	Slizzs Bills	Slizzs Bills	Twarpys Giants	Slizzs Bills	Judys Cardinals
15	Promizes Seahawks	Promizes Seahawks	Promizes Seahawks	Promizes Seahawks	Promizes Seahawks
16	SJs Packers	GOs Jets	SJs Packers	SJs Packers	SJs Packers
17	Peter Ns Cowboys	Peter Ns Cowboys	Peter Ns Cowboys	Peter Ns Cowboys	Peter Ns Cowboys
18	bmds Texans	bmds Texans	bmds Texans	bmds Texans	bmds Texans
19	Coyotes Broncos	Coyotes Broncos	Coyotes Broncos	Coyotes Broncos	Coyotes Broncos
20	Twarpys Giants	Twarpys Giants	Twarpys Giants	Twarpys Giants	Twarpys Giants
21	CCRs Bears	CCRs Bears	CCRs Bears	CCRs Bears	CCRs Bears
22	Refs Colts	Refs Colts	Refs Colts	Slizzs Bills	Refs Colts
23	Refs Colts	Dougs Raiders	Dougs Raiders	Dougs Raiders	BJ21s Rams
24	DS Eagles	DS Eagles	DS Eagles	Torals Saints	DS Eagles

	Picks Altered Due to Draft Lottery
	Pick Traded
	Pick Traded Twice

	Traded Draft Picks:
	7-23 Toral's Saints receive GO's Jets 1st and 2nd rounder for his 9th and 11th (Wolfe,08 picks/P.Thomas,08 picks)
	10-3 Go's Jets receive Slizz's Bills 2nd rounder for his 10th (Mendenhall/Holmes)
	10-15 Toral's Saints receive SJ's Packers 1st for his 4th rounder.
	10-17 pd's Browns receive SJ's Packers' 4th rounder (DST swap).
	10-23 SJ's Packers' receive GO's Jets 4th rounder for his 7th (Pennington-Jones/Henderson-J.Porter)
	11-07 Frick's Vikings receive Promize's Seahawks 2nd rounder for his 6th (Maroney/Barber)
	11-12 Toral's Saints receive Slizz's Bills 1st rounder for his 11th[auto-upgraded to 10th] (T. Edwards/T.Jackson)
	11-26 Slizz's Bills receive Twarpy's Giants 4th rounder for his 9th (IDP Swap)
	7-27 Slizz's Bills receive Judy's Cardinals 2nd rounder for her 11th (Hightower/Harrison)
	8-14 AF's Falcons receive Ref's Colts 1st and 4th rounders for his 5th and 6th (Schaub)
	8-20 B7's Ravens receive PD's Browns 1.05 pick for 1.08 (Gamble)
	8-24 Doug's Raiders receive Ref's Colts 6th round pick for his 7th (Jackson)
	8-24 Ref's Colts receive Slizz's Bills 4th round pick for his 10th (Hixon,Wilson/ '10 pick)
	8-24 gshade's Chiefs receive B7's Ravens 8th rounder for his 9th (Mason)
	8-24 Doug's Raiders receive bj21's Rams 5th round pick for his 11th (Betts)
	8-25 B7s Ravens receive AF's Falcons 1.02 pick for 1.05 (Curry)
	8-25 DS' Eagles receive Toral's Saints 8th rounder for his 10th (Abraham)

301

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Wed, Aug 26, 2009, 01:46

RE: 296 All draft stuff is done in the FOotball Leagues Forum. So as Doug said in 298, we will have a draft and draft discussion thread there tomorrow.

302

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Wed, Aug 26, 2009, 08:26

Where on the G24 league page do I look to find manage'rs emails?

I need GO and Slizz for the draft.

303

StLCards
Dude
ID: 31010716
Wed, Aug 26, 2009, 09:00

League Home / Teams and Owners

304

judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Wed, Aug 26, 2009, 09:13

thanks -- I knew I'd seen it somewhere...

305

Frick
ID: 4945458
Wed, Aug 26, 2009, 09:55

The draft starts at noon? I'm open to offers if you really want the top pick in the draft.

306

deepsnapper
Leader
ID: 017103420
Wed, Aug 26, 2009, 10:12

Ref - UR up on Kaf

307

StLCards
Dude
ID: 31010716
Wed, Aug 26, 2009, 10:46

Here is the league wide email ref sent out:

"Keepers Due by Noon ET on Tues Aug 25. Draft starts approx 6 pm Wed Aug 26th. "

308

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Wed, Aug 26, 2009, 12:51

Get your research done now so we can fly thorugh this draft! We might even start the draft a little early but will send a league wide email regardless.

309

Promize
ID: 551462816
Wed, Aug 26, 2009, 12:58

Email sent Frick

310

StLCards
Dude
ID: 31010716
Wed, Aug 26, 2009, 13:01

Let's get this show on the road!

311

Frick
ID: 4945458
Wed, Aug 26, 2009, 13:45

I replied Promize.

Who will be available to take a queue tomorrow morning? I'm going to be out from 9AM to around noon.

312

Perm Dude
ID: 154552311
Wed, Aug 26, 2009, 13:58

I'll be around.

313

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Wed, Aug 26, 2009, 14:22

Going through settings right now. Once that is done. I'll get to work on the draft thread. May be able to get started around 3ish ET or so.

314

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Wed, Aug 26, 2009, 15:13

We will be moving our discussion to the Draft Discussion in the Leagues Forum

Draft Thread in Football Legues Forum

315

gshade
ID: 357551320
Wed, Aug 26, 2009, 17:59

DS- please confirm the trade:

gshade's chiefs trade (1.7) Michael Crabtree, WR, OAK to DS's eagles for Larry Johnson, RB, KC

316

StLCards
Dude
ID: 31010716
Wed, Aug 26, 2009, 18:11

you should probably post that in the draft discussion thread

Forum: footPage 5230Subject: Gurupie 24 2009 Pre-Season 8 Discussion

Forum: foot
Page 5230
Subject: Gurupie 24 2009 Pre-Season 8 Discussion