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Forum: hoop
Page 12513
Subject: Gurupie 20 Basketball 2007 Preseason Discussion

Posted by: Ref - Donor [539581218] Mon, Oct 01, 2007, 23:57

Previous Thread

Re-invite emails have started to go out to most of the league.

We really need to discuss Guru's proposal for contraction asap. Will find a link for it. There may be other proposals as well.

Species
Dude
ID: 07724916
Tue, Oct 02, 2007, 00:00

Might as well start my ad campaign:

I have 8 guys who are legitimate keepers:
Mike Bibby
Mo Williams
Jason Richardson
Larry Hughes
Mike Miller
Chris Wilcox
Elton Brand
Marcus Camby

I am definitely too guard-heavy and wouldn't mind packaging a couple solid guards for a big man. You have Bibby and Miller who are going into "Phoenix-style" uptempo offenses who could garner some interest.

Anyone short legit keeps should drop me a line!

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Tue, Oct 02, 2007, 00:32

In our previous thread, I mention Contraction in post 1 and Guru's proposal is in post 3. Frick had an idea and there were a few follow up posts.

Mike D
Leader
ID: 041831612
Tue, Oct 02, 2007, 07:15

We get 10 keepers, right?

Baron Davis - GSW [G]
Shaun Livingston - LAC [G]
Raymond Felton - CHA [G]
Luol Deng - CHI [G, F]
Matt Carroll - CHA [G, F]
Ricky Davis - MIN [G, F]
Vince Carter - NJN [G, F]
Andrei Kirilenko - UTA [F]
Chuck Hayes - HOU [F]
Paul Millsap - UTA [F]
Ike Diogu - IND [F, C]
Mehmet Okur - UTA [C]

blackjackis21
ID: 227131712
Tue, Oct 02, 2007, 10:48

Let's just go to 8 keepers.

Mine:
D. Wade
R. Jefferson
M. Ginobili
R. Wallace
B. Wallace
D. Lee
K. Korver
D. Gooden

Species
Dude
ID: 07724916
Tue, Oct 02, 2007, 12:16

I would like somebody to explain to me how I squeaked past the above 2 rosters! Those are sick!

Great One
Sustainer
ID: 053272014
Tue, Oct 02, 2007, 12:43

Mike D - you hate keepers! so why do you want to keep anyone? trade them to me instead.

rockafellerskank
Dude
ID: 27652109
Tue, Oct 02, 2007, 12:55

Isn't Mike D's team my old team?

Perm Dude
ID: 5093716
Tue, Oct 02, 2007, 12:58

Yeah, but he traded everyone away, then traded to get them all back.

Great One
Sustainer
ID: 053272014
Tue, Oct 02, 2007, 13:43

I'd like to propose we don't use NBA.com, I hated that site. What does Yahoo not offer that the league went away from them?

skinneej
Leader
ID: 040625911
Tue, Oct 02, 2007, 16:40

As I have posted in previous leagues or discussions, I am looking to reduce my fantasy load and have decided to forgoe any leagues that use daily transactions. I will continue to stay involved by playing the one hoops keeper league that I am in that uses weekly transactions (H2H-like this league started with), but I declined the RIHC invitation and will not be playing in the always trade happy Elimination Chamber that many of you play in too (sorry MIkeD - I know you wanted to get that title back from me, but I am quitting on top -haha). I love hoops, but it simply takes up too much of my time and I cannot play if I am not able to put the expected effort into it.

I'll still be playing in the G24 football league so I will see most of you there. Consider my team for contraction or to be given to another manager. It will be a mid-standings team again this year with minimal effort, but maybe someone can make some big moves and improve it. After my strong 2nd place finish a couple years ago, I have been unable to regain that form since trading Marion was pivotal to making that run. The remnants of that trade did get me Jermaine O'neal and Okafor, but while I am near the top in blocks, my team suffered elsewhere. Good luck to whatever becomes of it...

beastiemiked
ID: 57958215
Tue, Oct 02, 2007, 18:00

I've got some guys I won't be able to keep that I'm willing to trade. Can't access my roster because I'm on some stupid hostel computer. Can't wait to defend my title.

Mike D
Leader
ID: 041831612
Tue, Oct 02, 2007, 21:47

Yes rfs, I breathed life into that roster that you left for me a few years back and rose to the cusp of the mountain, but was merely allowed to stand on a ledge and watch the party that was going on up top.

A trade here, a lucky draft choice there, and now I'm in a bit of a conundrum. As GO astutely points out, I hate keepers, yet I like my team and wish I could keep them all. Or nearly all. So how does one deal with this paradox? Indeed, I'll grab another Sam Adams, and reflect some more. I know the answer will come to me.......I just know it.

skinnee with the J, sorry to see you step away from this league, RIHC, the Chamber, and anywhere else I've thrown a dart or bet on a horse. It seems you've always been there to either one up me or come close to it. You will be missed.

I will likely be retiring the Chamber, in its, well, Chamber. Many have too little time to play, but play we must. Maybe the Chamber will simply take a brief nap for a season or two. Who knows. I never say never when it comes to insane trade-laden leagues where the ultimate test is not your ability to finish first in the standings; rather, the first goal is the TM category, the real title. And the second is that elusive double of winning the league and the TM title. Many have alleged to have done it; proof of such success might be hard to come by, and harder to have achieved.

I'd like to view your team, BMD, but I hate logging in seperately to nba.com, so much that I failed to make moves last year in my haste. Besides, as defending champ, you should be forced to blindly declare your keepers, and if you name someone you don't own, the league will substitute in the tallest and worst players it can recall. Muresan, Bradley, Bol.....although the latter could help you in three pointers.

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Tue, Oct 02, 2007, 21:59

Trying to get a grip on who is in the league at this point.

Here are the ones who have responded via email:

1. Ref
2. Tosh
3. Guru
4. Species
5. PD
6. Frick
7. KF
8. bmd
9. Pistol Pete
10. GO
11. bj21
12. coyotes

Those who have posted lately in our threads and assuming they are back:
13. Mike D
14. RSF

Not Returning:
1. GL
2. CCR
3. Twarpy
4. Skinneej

Yet to hear from:
Peter N and Yokel

If Pete and Yokel are back then we will need from 2-4 new managers--depending on this contraction proposal. RFS has already been invited to take one of the teams. Whoever inherits Twarpy's team will inherit a draft pick(s) penalty because the team is stacked and was neglected. RFS was already informed of this and has accepted whatever we decide on. We didn't realize sj wasn't returning until today so RFS may or may not get Twarpy's team afterall--even if we do contract.

We're going to add at least one more manager asap. Those two managers will have full voting rights but won't be assigned a team until this proposal is figured out.

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Tue, Oct 02, 2007, 22:05

I am sorry to see you go sj. I had a ball esp. in hoops with you. Man did we make a lot of trades together last year!!! We broke the seal in the Chamber a couple times and launched what turned out to be the greatest trading frenzy in the history of fantasy sports!!! We also made some moves in here and No Quitters too. Fun times. You will be missed.

Mike D
Leader
ID: 041831612
Tue, Oct 02, 2007, 22:12

No doubt Ref, no doubt. The greatest frenzy I've ever been around, been a part of, or even heard of. It cost me the league, but it was worth every second of it.

Yes, I'm planning on playing G20 and RIHC. I didn't get any e-mails, so if you wanted to kick me out, it's good people are leaving, because it's kind of like addition by subtraction.

Perm Dude
ID: 5093716
Tue, Oct 02, 2007, 23:14

Frick

Player FG% FT% Pts 0Reb Reb Ast Stl Blk 3PM

Jarrett Jack - POR [G] 0.454 0.871 12.0 0.2 2.6 5.3 1.1 0.1 0.8
Marcus Banks - PHX [G] 0.429 0.800 4.9 0.2 0.8 1.3 0.5 0.1 0.1
Ben Gordon - CHI [G] 0.455 0.864 21.4 0.4 3.1 3.6 0.8 0.2 1.9
Rudy Gay - MEM [G, F] 0.422 0.727 10.8 1.2 4.4 1.3 0.9 0.9 0.7
Rashard Lewis - ORL [F] 0.461 0.841 22.4 1.5 6.6 2.4 1.1 0.7 2.5
Shane Battier - HOU [F] 0.446 0.779 10.1 0.8 4.1 2.1 1.0 0.7 1.9
Sean May - CHA [F] 0.500 0.768 11.9 2.1 6.7 1.9 0.5 0.7 0.1
Renaldo Balkman - NYK [F] 0.505 0.567 4.9 1.4 4.3 0.6 0.8 0.6 0.1
Etan Thomas - WAS [C] 0.574 0.558 6.1 2.1 5.8 0.4 0.3 1.4 0.0
Andris Biedrins - GSW [C] 0.599 0.521 9.5 3.1 9.3 1.1 0.8 1.7 0.0
Fabricio Oberto - SAS [C] 0.562 0.647 4.4 1.7 4.7 0.9 0.3 0.3 0.0
Shaquille O'Neal - MIA [C] 0.591 0.422 17.3 2.4 7.4 2.0 0.2 1.4 0.0

GoatLocker

Keyon Dooling - ORL [G] 0.410 0.809 7.9 0.3 1.3 1.7 0.8 0.2 0.5
Tony Parker - SAS [G] 0.520 0.783 18.6 0.4 3.2 5.5 1.1 0.1 0.2
J.R. Smith - DEN [G] 0.441 0.810 13.0 0.5 2.3 1.4 0.8 0.1 2.4
Randy Foye - MIN [G] 0.434 0.854 10.1 0.6 2.7 2.8 0.6 0.3 0.8
Corey Maggette - LAC [G, F] 0.454 0.820 16.9 1.2 5.9 2.8 0.9 0.2 0.2
James Posey - BOS [G, F] 0.431 0.827 7.7 0.9 5.0 1.3 1.0 0.3 1.4
Darius Songaila - WAS [F] 0.524 0.852 7.6 1.2 3.6 1.0 0.5 0.3 0.0
Charlie Villanueva - MIL [F] 0.470 0.820 11.8 1.6 5.8 0.9 0.6 0.3 0.7
Juwan Howard - MIN [F] 0.465 0.824 9.7 1.7 5.9 1.6 0.4 0.1 0.0
Channing Frye - POR [F, C] 0.433 0.787 9.5 1.3 5.5 0.9 0.5 0.6 0.0
Kwame Brown - LAL [C] 0.591 0.440 8.4 2.0 6.0 1.8 1.0 1.2 0.0
Andrew Bogut - MIL [C] 0.553 0.577 12.3 2.5 8.8 3.0 0.7 0.5 0.0

CCRider

Carlos Arroyo - ORL [G] 0.425 0.795 7.7 0.4 1.9 2.8 0.5 0.0 0.2
Sarunas Jasikevicius - GSW [G] 0.412 0.922 7.4 0.3 1.3 3.0 0.4 0.0 0.9
Speedy Claxton - ATL [G] 0.327 0.550 5.3 0.3 1.9 4.4 1.7 0.1 0.1
Jamal Crawford - NYK [G] 0.400 0.838 17.6 0.7 3.2 4.4 1.0 0.1 1.7
Kevin Martin - SAC [G] 0.473 0.844 20.2 0.9 4.3 2.2 1.2 0.1 1.6
Juan Dixon - TOR [G] 0.425 0.932 11.1 0.4 2.8 1.6 1.0 0.1 1.0
Charlie Bell - MIL [G, F] 0.437 0.780 13.5 0.7 2.9 3.0 1.2 0.0 1.5
Josh Howard - DAL [G, F] 0.459 0.827 18.9 1.9 6.8 1.8 1.2 0.8 1.3
Matt Harpring - UTA [G, F] 0.491 0.767 11.6 1.5 4.6 1.3 0.7 0.1 0.2
Peja Stojakovic - NOH [G, F] 0.423 0.816 17.8 0.8 4.2 0.8 0.6 0.3 2.6
Antonio McDyess - DET [F] 0.526 0.691 8.1 2.0 6.0 0.9 0.7 0.8 0.0
Nazr Mohammed - DET [C] 0.532 0.610 5.6 1.7 4.5 0.2 0.5 0.8 0.0

coldwater

Andre Miller - PHI [G] 0.464 0.808 13.6 1.3 4.4 7.3 1.3 0.1 0.0
Jose Calderon - TOR [G] 0.521 0.818 8.7 0.3 1.7 5.0 0.8 0.1 0.3
Steve Nash - PHX [G] 0.532 0.899 18.6 0.4 3.5 11.6 0.8 0.1 2.1
Willie Green - PHI [G] 0.411 0.667 11.3 0.6 2.1 1.5 0.8 0.1 0.7
Jordan Farmar - LAL [G] 0.422 0.711 4.4 0.3 1.7 1.9 0.6 0.1 0.6
Monta Ellis - GSW [G] 0.475 0.763 16.5 0.8 3.2 4.1 1.7 0.3 0.5
Martell Webster - POR [G, F] 0.396 0.705 7.0 0.5 2.9 0.6 0.4 0.2 1.1
Matt Barnes - GSW [F] 0.438 0.732 9.8 1.2 4.6 2.1 1.0 0.5 1.4
Udonis Haslem - MIA [F] 0.492 0.680 10.7 2.4 8.3 1.2 0.6 0.3 0.0
Gerald Wallace - CHA [F] 0.502 0.691 18.1 2.0 7.2 2.6 2.0 1.0 0.5
Travis Outlaw - POR [F] 0.434 0.790 9.6 1.0 3.2 0.8 0.9 1.1 0.1
Nenad Krstic - NJN [C] 0.526 0.711 16.4 2.0 6.8 1.8 0.4 0.9 0.0

Peter N

Bobby Jackson - NOH [G] 0.394 0.774 10.6 0.8 3.2 2.5 0.9 0.1 1.0
Damon Jones - CLE [G] 0.386 0.682 6.6 0.2 1.1 1.6 0.3 0.0 1.5
Devin Harris - DAL [G] 0.492 0.824 10.2 0.6 2.5 3.7 1.2 0.3 0.2
Devin Brown - CLE [G] 0.420 0.794 11.6 0.9 4.3 2.6 0.8 0.2 1.4
Marvin Williams - ATL [G, F] 0.433 0.815 13.1 1.3 5.3 1.9 0.8 0.5 0.2
Morris Peterson - NOH [G, F] 0.429 0.683 8.9 0.5 3.3 0.7 0.6 0.2 1.5
LeBron James - CLE [F] 0.476 0.698 27.3 1.1 6.7 6.0 1.6 0.7 1.3
Ron Artest - SAC [F] 0.440 0.740 18.8 1.5 6.5 3.4 2.1 0.6 1.3
Zach Randolph - NYK [F] 0.467 0.819 23.6 2.9 10.1 2.2 0.8 0.2 0.2
Tim Thomas - LAC [F] 0.414 0.708 11.0 0.8 5.0 2.3 0.7 0.4 1.8
Chris Kaman - LAC [C] 0.451 0.741 10.1 2.1 7.8 1.1 0.5 1.5 0.0
Rasho Nesterovic - TOR [C] 0.546 0.680 6.2 1.4 4.5 0.9 0.5 1.1 0.0

Guru

Derek Fisher - LAL [G] 0.382 0.853 10.1 0.4 1.8 3.3 1.0 0.1 0.6
Jameer Nelson - ORL [G] 0.430 0.828 13.0 0.6 3.1 4.3 0.9 0.1 0.8
Mike James - HOU [G] 0.423 0.837 10.1 0.3 2.0 3.6 0.7 0.1 1.0
Andre Iguodala - PHI [G, F] 0.447 0.820 18.2 1.0 5.7 5.7 2.0 0.4 0.6
Tracy McGrady - HOU [G, F] 0.431 0.707 24.6 0.8 5.3 6.5 1.3 0.5 1.8
Andres Nocioni - CHI [F] 0.467 0.848 14.1 0.8 5.7 1.1 0.5 0.5 1.5
Ryan Gomes - MIN [F] 0.467 0.811 12.1 1.7 5.6 1.6 0.7 0.2 0.2
Tyrus Thomas - CHI [F] 0.475 0.606 5.2 1.2 3.7 0.6 0.6 1.1 0.0
Al Jefferson - MIN [F, C] 0.514 0.681 16.0 3.4 11.0 1.3 0.7 1.5 0.0
Carlos Boozer - UTA [F, C] 0.561 0.685 20.9 3.2 11.7 3.0 0.9 0.3 0.0
Kendrick Perkins - BOS [C] 0.491 0.600 4.5 1.6 5.2 1.3 0.3 1.3 0.0
Francisco Elson - SAS [C] 0.511 0.775 5.0 1.2 4.8 0.8 0.4 0.8 0.0

slackjawed yokel

Antonio Daniels - WAS [G] 0.442 0.832 7.1 0.2 1.9 3.6 0.5 0.1 0.2
Deron Williams - UTA [G] 0.456 0.767 16.2 0.5 3.3 9.3 1.0 0.2 1.0
Salim Stoudamire - ATL [G] 0.416 0.897 7.7 0.1 1.2 1.0 0.3 0.0 0.9
Jared Jeffries - NYK [G, F] 0.461 0.456 4.1 2.0 4.3 1.2 0.8 0.5 0.0
Josh Childress - ATL [G, F] 0.504 0.795 13.0 2.3 6.2 2.3 1.1 0.7 0.5
Paul Pierce - BOS [G, F] 0.439 0.796 25.0 0.8 5.9 4.1 1.0 0.3 2.3
Jarvis Hayes - DET [F] 0.410 0.845 7.2 0.5 2.6 1.0 0.6 0.2 0.8
Andrea Bargnani - TOR [F] 0.427 0.824 11.6 0.8 3.9 0.8 0.5 0.8 1.5
Ruben Patterson - LAC [F] 0.548 0.641 14.7 2.3 5.4 2.9 1.4 0.3 0.0
Al Harrington - GSW [F, C] 0.458 0.713 15.9 2.0 6.3 1.4 0.7 0.3 1.5
Stromile Swift - MEM [C] 0.465 0.724 7.8 1.6 4.6 0.3 0.6 1.1 0.0
Samuel Dalembert - PHI [C] 0.541 0.746 10.7 2.9 8.9 0.8 0.6 1.9 0.0

Species

Mike Bibby - SAC [G] 0.404 0.830 17.1 0.5 3.2 4.7 1.1 0.1 2.1
Mo Williams - MIL [G] 0.446 0.855 17.3 0.8 4.8 6.1 1.3 0.1 1.2
Larry Hughes - CLE [G] 0.400 0.676 14.9 0.6 3.8 3.7 1.3 0.4 1.1
Desmond Mason - MIL [G, F] 0.452 0.663 13.7 1.7 4.6 1.5 0.7 0.3 0.0
Jason Richardson - CHA [G, F] 0.417 0.657 16.0 1.4 5.1 3.4 1.1 0.6 2.2
Mike Miller - MEM [G, F] 0.460 0.793 18.5 0.7 5.4 4.3 0.8 0.3 2.9
Hakim Warrick - MEM [F] 0.524 0.771 12.7 1.6 5.1 0.9 0.5 0.4 0.0
Chris Wilcox - SEA [F, C] 0.529 0.684 13.5 2.2 7.7 1.0 0.9 0.5 0.0
Elton Brand - LAC [F, C] 0.533 0.761 20.5 3.4 9.3 2.9 1.0 2.2 0.0
P.J. Brown - CHI [F, C] 0.407 0.787 6.1 1.8 4.8 0.7 0.3 0.7 0.0
Tony Battie - ORL [F, C] 0.489 0.675 6.1 1.4 5.2 0.5 0.4 0.5 0.0
Marcus Camby - DEN [C] 0.473 0.729 11.2 2.3 11.7 3.2 1.2 3.3 0.0

Tosh

Chauncey Billups - DET [G] 0.427 0.883 17.0 0.3 3.4 7.2 1.2 0.2 1.6
Cuttino Mobley - LAC [G] 0.440 0.837 13.8 0.7 3.4 2.5 1.2 0.3 1.3
Michael Redd - MIL [G, F] 0.465 0.829 26.7 0.8 3.7 2.3 1.2 0.2 2.2
Darko Milicic - MEM [F, C] 0.454 0.613 8.0 1.8 5.5 1.1 0.6 1.8 0.0
Zydrunas Ilgauskas - CLE [C] 0.485 0.807 11.9 3.1 7.7 1.6 0.6 1.3 0.0
Chucky Atkins - DEN [G] 0.434 0.810 13.2 0.2 1.9 4.6 0.7 0.1 1.5
Adam Morrison - CHA [G, F] 0.376 0.710 11.8 0.7 2.9 2.1 0.4 0.1 1.1
Nene Hilario - DEN [F, C] 0.570 0.689 12.2 2.3 7.0 1.2 1.0 0.9 0.0
Damon Stoudamire - MEM [G] 0.391 0.795 7.5 0.5 2.2 4.8 0.8 0.0 1.0
Sasha Pavlovic - CLE [G, F] 0.453 0.787 9.0 0.3 2.4 1.6 0.8 0.3 0.9
Shelden Williams - ATL [F] 0.455 0.764 5.5 1.6 5.4 0.5 0.6 0.5 0.0
Shareef Abdur-Rahim - SAC [F, C] 0.474 0.726 9.9 1.5 5.0 1.4 0.7 0.5 0.0

Pistol Pete

Chris Paul - NOH [G] 0.437 0.818 17.3 0.8 4.4 8.9 1.8 0.0 0.8
Richard Hamilton - DET [G] 0.468 0.861 19.8 1.0 3.8 3.8 0.8 0.2 0.6
Quentin Richardson - NYK [G, F] 0.418 0.692 13.0 1.3 7.2 2.2 0.7 0.1 2.0
Wally Szczerbiak - SEA [G, F] 0.415 0.897 15.0 0.5 3.1 1.7 0.6 0.1 1.4
Brad Miller - SAC [C] 0.453 0.772 9.0 1.3 6.4 3.6 0.6 0.6 0.1
Sam Cassell - LAC [G] 0.418 0.879 12.3 0.5 2.9 4.7 0.5 0.1 0.6
Chris Webber - DET [F, C] 0.387 0.643 11.0 2.1 8.3 3.4 1.0 0.8 0.1
Mark Blount - MIN [C] 0.509 0.754 12.3 1.7 6.2 0.8 0.5 0.7 0.1
Earl Watson - SEA [G] 0.383 0.735 9.4 0.4 2.4 5.7 1.3 0.3 1.2
Mardy Collins - NYK [G] 0.382 0.585 4.5 0.5 2.0 1.6 0.6 0.1 0.3
Trevor Ariza - ORL [F] 0.539 0.620 8.9 1.7 4.4 1.1 1.0 0.3 0.0
Anderson Varejao - CLE [F, C] 0.476 0.616 6.8 2.4 6.7 0.9 0.9 0.6 0.0

Mike D

Baron Davis - GSW [G] 0.439 0.745 20.1 0.8 4.4 8.1 2.1 0.5 1.3
Shaun Livingston - LAC [G] 0.463 0.707 9.3 1.0 3.4 5.1 1.1 0.5 0.1
Raymond Felton - CHA [G] 0.384 0.797 14.0 0.7 3.4 7.0 1.5 0.1 1.3
Luol Deng - CHI [G, F] 0.517 0.777 18.8 1.8 7.1 2.5 1.2 0.6 0.0
Matt Carroll - CHA [G, F] 0.433 0.904 12.1 0.5 2.9 1.3 0.7 0.1 1.5
Ricky Davis - MIN [G, F] 0.464 0.839 17.0 0.7 3.9 4.8 1.0 0.3 1.5
Vince Carter - NJN [G, F] 0.454 0.802 25.2 1.4 6.0 4.8 1.0 0.4 1.9
Andrei Kirilenko - UTA [F] 0.471 0.728 8.3 1.3 4.7 2.9 1.1 2.1 0.2
Chuck Hayes - HOU [F] 0.573 0.618 5.6 2.6 6.7 0.6 0.9 0.2 0.0
Paul Millsap - UTA [F] 0.525 0.673 6.8 2.2 5.2 0.8 0.8 0.9 0.0
Ike Diogu - IND [F, C] 0.454 0.802 5.8 1.3 3.3 0.5 0.1 0.4 0.0
Mehmet Okur - UTA [C] 0.462 0.765 17.6 2.0 7.2 2.0 0.5 0.5 1.6

Twarpy

Jason Kidd - NJN [G] 0.406 0.778 13.0 1.7 8.2 9.2 1.6 0.3 1.6
Steve Francis - HOU [G] 0.408 0.829 11.3 0.8 3.6 3.9 0.9 0.3 1.0
Bonzi Wells - HOU [G] 0.411 0.561 7.8 0.9 4.3 1.1 0.9 0.5 0.0
Rashad McCants - MIN [G] 0.350 0.690 5.0 0.4 1.3 1.0 0.7 0.2 0.5
Eddie Jones - DAL [G, F] 0.377 0.735 5.6 0.5 2.1 1.1 0.8 0.1 0.8
Michael Finley - SAS [G, F] 0.412 0.918 9.0 0.4 2.7 1.3 0.4 0.2 1.3
Bruce Bowen - SAS [F] 0.405 0.589 6.2 0.3 2.7 1.4 0.8 0.3 1.1
Carmelo Anthony - DEN [F] 0.476 0.808 28.9 2.2 6.0 3.8 1.2 0.3 0.6
Brian Cook - LAL [F] 0.452 0.723 6.9 1.0 3.3 1.0 0.4 0.4 0.7
Shawn Marion - PHX [F] 0.524 0.810 17.5 2.2 9.8 1.7 2.0 1.5 1.0
Jorge Garbajosa - TOR [F, C] 0.420 0.731 8.5 0.7 4.9 1.9 1.2 0.2 1.0
Tim Duncan - SAS [F, C] 0.546 0.637 20.0 2.7 10.6 3.4 0.8 2.4 0.0

RSF

Chris Duhon - CHI [G] 0.408 0.752 7.2 0.3 2.2 4.0 0.9 0.1 1.1
Steve Blake - POR [G] 0.349 0.550 3.6 0.2 1.4 2.5 0.3 0.1 0.6
Ray Allen - BOS [G] 0.438 0.903 26.4 1.0 4.5 4.1 1.5 0.2 3.0
Allen Iverson - DEN [G] 0.413 0.885 31.2 0.5 2.7 7.3 2.2 0.1 0.8
Luther Head - HOU [G] 0.437 0.790 10.9 0.4 3.2 2.4 1.0 0.1 2.2
Tony Allen - BOS [G] 0.514 0.784 11.5 1.1 3.8 1.7 1.5 0.4 0.2
Kenyon Martin - DEN [F] 0.500 0.250 9.5 3.0 10.0 0.5 0.0 0.0 0.0
Kevin Garnett - BOS [F] 0.476 0.835 22.4 2.4 12.8 4.1 1.2 1.7 0.2
Boris Diaw - PHX [F, C] 0.538 0.683 9.7 1.2 4.3 4.8 0.4 0.5 0.2
Eddy Curry - NYK [C] 0.576 0.615 19.5 2.4 7.0 0.8 0.4 0.5 0.0
Jamaal Magloire - NJN [C] 0.504 0.541 6.5 1.9 6.1 0.4 0.3 0.8 0.0
Yao Ming - HOU [C] 0.516 0.862 25.0 2.1 9.4 2.0 0.4 2.0 0.0

KnicksFan

Leandro Barbosa - PHX [G] 0.476 0.845 18.1 0.3 2.7 4.0 1.2 0.2 2.4
Smush Parker - MIA [G] 0.436 0.646 11.1 0.5 2.5 2.8 1.5 0.1 1.3
Joe Johnson - ATL [G] 0.471 0.748 25.0 0.9 4.2 4.4 1.1 0.2 2.1
Nate Robinson - NYK [G] 0.434 0.777 10.1 0.9 2.4 1.4 0.8 0.1 1.3
John Salmons - SAC [G, F] 0.456 0.779 8.5 0.6 3.3 3.2 0.9 0.3 0.5
Mickael Pietrus - GSW [G, F] 0.488 0.648 11.1 1.1 4.5 0.9 0.7 0.8 1.3
Mike Dunleavy - IND [G, F] 0.454 0.792 14.0 1.0 5.7 2.6 1.1 0.2 0.8
David West - NOH [F] 0.477 0.824 18.3 2.4 8.1 2.2 0.8 0.7 0.2
Walter Herrmann - CHA [F] 0.527 0.774 9.2 0.6 2.9 0.5 0.4 0.1 1.1
Nick Collison - SEA [C] 0.500 0.774 9.6 2.8 8.1 1.0 0.6 0.8 0.0
Zaza Pachulia - ATL [C] 0.473 0.786 12.2 2.8 7.0 1.5 1.1 0.5 0.0
Dwight Howard - ORL [C] 0.603 0.586 17.6 3.5 12.3 1.9 0.9 1.9 0.0

Perm Dude

Jannero Pargo - NOH [G] 0.409 0.852 9.2 0.2 2.2 2.5 0.6 0.0 1.0
Rafer Alston - HOU [G] 0.375 0.734 13.3 0.4 3.4 5.4 1.6 0.1 2.3
DeShawn Stevenson - WAS [G] 0.461 0.704 11.2 0.7 2.6 2.7 0.8 0.2 0.9
Raja Bell - PHX [G] 0.432 0.776 14.7 0.6 3.2 2.5 0.6 0.3 2.6
J.J. Redick - ORL [G] 0.410 0.900 6.0 0.2 1.2 0.9 0.3 0.0 0.9
Jason Terry - DAL [G] 0.484 0.804 16.7 0.5 2.9 5.2 1.0 0.2 2.0
Maurice Evans - LAL [G, F] 0.432 0.787 8.4 1.2 2.9 1.0 0.5 0.2 0.6
Rasual Butler - NOH [G, F] 0.398 0.644 10.1 0.5 3.2 0.8 0.5 0.7 1.7
Caron Butler - WAS [F] 0.463 0.863 19.1 2.3 7.4 3.7 2.1 0.3 0.3
Joe Smith - CHI [F] 0.445 0.846 9.2 2.0 6.7 0.9 0.6 0.4 0.0
Jeff Foster - IND [C] 0.471 0.639 4.3 3.4 8.1 0.8 0.8 0.5 0.0
Andrew Bynum - LAL [C] 0.558 0.668 7.8 1.7 5.9 1.1 0.1 1.6 0.0

blackjackis21

Manu Ginobili - SAS [G] 0.464 0.860 16.5 0.8 4.4 3.5 1.5 0.4 1.7
Dwyane Wade - MIA [G] 0.491 0.807 27.4 1.0 4.7 7.5 2.1 1.2 0.4
Anthony Parker - TOR [G, F] 0.477 0.830 12.4 0.8 3.9 2.1 1.0 0.2 1.6
Kyle Korver - PHI [F] 0.440 0.914 14.4 0.4 3.5 1.4 0.8 0.3 1.8
Richard Jefferson - NJN [F] 0.456 0.733 16.3 0.9 4.4 2.7 0.6 0.1 0.9
Drew Gooden - CLE [F] 0.473 0.714 11.1 3.3 8.5 1.1 0.9 0.4 0.0
Rasheed Wallace - DET [F] 0.423 0.788 12.3 1.2 7.2 1.7 1.0 1.6 1.4
Craig Smith - MIN [F] 0.531 0.624 7.4 1.8 5.0 0.6 0.6 0.2 0.0
David Lee - NYK [F] 0.600 0.815 10.7 3.4 10.4 1.8 0.8 0.4 0.0
Shawne Williams - IND [F] 0.469 0.550 3.9 0.7 1.8 0.5 0.1 0.2 0.4
DeSagana Diop - DAL [F, C] 0.470 0.558 2.3 2.0 5.4 0.4 0.5 1.4 0.0
Ben Wallace - CHI [C] 0.453 0.408 6.4 3.9 10.7 2.4 1.4 2.0 0.0

Great One

Brevin Knight - LAC [G] 0.419 0.805 9.1 0.3 2.6 6.6 1.5 0.1 0.0
Gilbert Arenas - WAS [G] 0.418 0.844 28.4 0.8 4.6 6.0 1.9 0.2 2.8
Tyronn Lue - ATL [G] 0.417 0.883 11.4 0.3 1.9 3.6 0.4 0.0 1.0
Delonte West - SEA [G] 0.427 0.853 12.2 0.5 3.0 4.4 1.1 0.5 0.9
Marcus Williams - NJN [G] 0.395 0.847 6.8 0.4 2.1 3.3 0.4 0.0 0.6
Sergio Rodriguez - POR [G] 0.423 0.808 3.7 0.3 1.4 3.3 0.5 0.0 0.4
Damien Wilkins - SEA [G, F] 0.435 0.882 8.8 1.1 2.8 1.9 1.1 0.2 0.6
Gerald Green - MIN [G, F] 0.419 0.805 10.4 0.8 2.6 1.0 0.5 0.3 1.2
Bostjan Nachbar - NJN [F] 0.457 0.805 9.2 0.4 3.3 0.8 0.4 0.3 1.5
LaMarcus Aldridge - POR [C] 0.503 0.722 9.0 2.3 5.0 0.4 0.3 1.2 0.0
Pau Gasol - MEM [C] 0.538 0.748 20.8 2.5 9.8 3.4 0.5 2.1 0.1
Amare Stoudemire - PHX [C] 0.575 0.781 20.4 2.7 9.6 1.0 1.0 1.3 0.0

Skinnee

Luke Ridnour - SEA [G] 0.433 0.805 11.0 0.4 2.3 5.2 1.2 0.3 0.7
Stephon Marbury - NYK [G] 0.415 0.769 16.4 0.5 2.9 5.4 1.0 0.1 1.7
Francisco Garcia - SAC [G, F] 0.429 0.833 6.0 0.7 2.6 1.1 0.6 0.5 0.7
Hedo Turkoglu - ORL [G, F] 0.419 0.781 13.3 0.8 4.0 3.2 1.0 0.2 1.5
Jason Kapono - TOR [G, F] 0.494 0.892 10.9 0.4 2.7 1.2 0.6 0.0 1.6
Jerry Stackhouse - DAL [G, F] 0.428 0.847 12.0 0.6 2.2 2.8 0.8 0.1 0.9
Stephen Jackson - GSW [G, F] 0.419 0.822 14.1 0.5 2.6 3.1 0.9 0.5 1.1
Tarence Kinsey - MEM [G, F] 0.459 0.796 7.7 0.6 2.0 0.9 1.1 0.0 0.3
Luke Walton - LAL [F] 0.474 0.745 11.4 1.5 5.0 4.3 1.0 0.4 0.8
Tayshaun Prince - DET [F] 0.460 0.768 14.3 1.8 5.2 2.8 0.6 0.7 1.0
Emeka Okafor - CHA [F, C] 0.532 0.593 14.4 3.9 11.3 1.2 0.9 2.6 0.0
Jermaine O'Neal - IND [F, C] 0.436 0.767 19.4 2.2 9.6 2.4 0.7 2.6 0.0

bmd

Darrell Armstrong - IND [G] 0.414 0.785 5.6 0.4 1.7 2.4 0.9 0.1 0.9
Jason Hart - UTA [G] 0.500 0.909 3.3 0.2 1.2 0.8 0.2 0.0 0.2
T.J. Ford - TOR [G] 0.436 0.819 14.0 0.7 3.1 7.9 1.3 0.1 0.3
Kobe Bryant - LAL [G] 0.463 0.868 31.6 1.0 5.7 5.4 1.4 0.5 1.8
Rajon Rondo - BOS [G] 0.418 0.647 6.4 0.9 3.7 3.8 1.6 0.1 0.1
Grant Hill - PHX [G, F] 0.518 0.765 14.4 0.8 3.6 2.1 0.9 0.4 0.0
Josh Smith - ATL [G, F] 0.439 0.693 16.4 2.3 8.6 3.3 1.4 2.9 0.5
Linas Kleiza - DEN [G, F] 0.422 0.852 7.6 1.0 3.4 0.6 0.4 0.2 1.1
James Jones - POR [F] 0.368 0.877 6.4 0.4 2.3 0.6 0.4 0.6 1.2
Antawn Jamison - WAS [F] 0.450 0.736 19.8 1.9 8.0 1.9 1.1 0.5 2.0
Lamar Odom - LAL [F] 0.468 0.700 15.9 1.8 9.8 4.8 0.9 0.6 1.0
Chris Bosh - TOR [F, C] 0.496 0.785 22.6 2.7 10.7 2.5 0.6 1.3 0.2

Ref

Jamaal Tinsley - IND [G] 0.389 0.720 12.8 0.8 3.3 6.9 1.6 0.3 0.8
Jason Williams - MIA [G] 0.413 0.913 10.9 0.3 2.3 5.3 1.0 0.0 1.6
Mike Wilks - SEA [G] 0.468 0.786 3.6 0.3 1.1 1.7 0.3 0.1 0.1
Brandon Roy - POR [G] 0.456 0.838 16.8 1.0 4.4 4.0 1.2 0.2 1.0
Kirk Hinrich - CHI [G] 0.448 0.835 16.6 0.4 3.4 6.3 1.3 0.3 1.8
Dirk Nowitzki - DAL [F] 0.502 0.904 24.6 1.6 8.9 3.4 0.7 0.8 0.9
Amir Johnson - DET [F] 0.545 0.786 5.9 1.9 4.6 0.4 0.6 1.6 0.0
Danny Granger - IND [F] 0.459 0.803 13.9 1.4 4.6 1.4 0.8 0.7 1.3
Kris Humphries - TOR [F] 0.470 0.671 3.8 1.3 3.1 0.3 0.2 0.4 0.0
Justin Williams - SAC [F, C] 0.614 0.365 5.0 2.0 4.4 0.1 0.2 0.6 0.0
Troy Murphy - IND [F, C] 0.460 0.772 11.1 1.5 6.1 1.6 0.6 0.6 0.9
Tyson Chandler - NOH [C] 0.624 0.527 9.5 4.4 12.4 0.9 0.5 1.8 0.0

rockafellerskank
Dude
ID: 27652109
Tue, Oct 02, 2007, 23:35

Good to be back. As Ref said, I'm flexible as to what team you assign me. 18 of you will be tough managers. Species is the only sure "fish" at the table. :)

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Wed, Oct 03, 2007, 00:38

Final Standings from Last Year

Yokel is back.

Species
Dude
ID: 07724916
Wed, Oct 03, 2007, 01:21

rfs #17 - I dunno man, you pissed away a couple hundred pretty fast 2 springs ago at the Indian Casino - YOU looked like the fish to me! Bring it on baby!

skinneej
Leader
ID: 040625911
Wed, Oct 03, 2007, 10:51

RE: 14/15 - Yeah, I had a blast last year in all the leagues. After spending many days working with Ref on a couple big trades in the Chamber, we managed to unleash the fury which somehow led to me sneaking up and winning it on the last day. It was a crazy couple days before the deadline for sure. We had to push trades early just so others could accept trades due to Yahoo limits on how many pending trades one player can have.

Ref, I will still see you in No Quitters since that is the one league I will hold onto. I should be able to cover the draft without too much problem while on travel, and after that I can just set my lineup once a week. I just can't commit to anything right now that requires much more time, but maybe down the road I can rejoin some of these leagues.

rockafellerskank
Dude
ID: 27652109
Wed, Oct 03, 2007, 12:00

Hey Ref, Wanna trade Dirk? ;)

Species, That's the LAST time I played that sissy limit game.

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Wed, Oct 03, 2007, 14:42

LOL RFS!!! ;)

I would consider trading someone like Troy Murphy though. He has C elig. so I might actually want to keep him and move someone else. Bototm line is that I have 7 quality keepers for the first time ever.

Would really like to get the league back to 18 managers asap then discuss contraction first. I guess we could go ahead and start it. I"m going to repost Guru's proposal and Frick's follow-up suggestion from our last thread:

Guru:
Here's my general concept for a "contraction draft"

1. One round only
2. Held before the supplemental draft, and before keepers are declared.
3. The only players in the draftable pool are players from the contracted teams.
4. Draft would be in the same order as the first round of the supplemental draft (i.e, subject to the lottery)
5. Each player in the pool would have a "cost" assigned. The costs would be determined in advance of the draft, and would be determined by a small committee of league managers - either commissioners, or perhaps the top three teams from the prior year standings, or some combination. Costs would be in the form of forfeited draft picks in the current year and possibly subsequent years' drafts.

As an example, suppose that drafting any player who was deemed to be a top-20 caliber would have the following costs:
(a) forfeiture of 1st and 2nd round picks in the current year supplemental draft, plus
(b) forfeiture of 1st round picks in each of the next two years' supplemental drafts

Drafting a player in the next tier (say those ranked 21-50) would forfeit 1st and second rounders in the current year, and a first rounder in the next year.

Drafting a player ranked in the next tier (say 51-100) would forfeit the first two round picks in the current year only.

Drafting any other player would only forfeit a first round pick in the current year.

The costs could be further stratified, and strengthened or weakened, but that is the general framework. The minimum cost would be forfeiture of your current first round pick, so that no team could make a pick in both the contraction draft and the first round of the supplemental draft (unless that team already owns multiple picks in the first round of the supplemental draft).

Frick:
Another possability would be to model it after the NFL's supplemental draft. Players are "bid" on with draft picks, if multiple managers bid the same amount, then the manager with the lowest place finish wins the bid.

Without doing more thinking, would even a top 20 player be worth 2 #1s and 2 #2s? You can only keep 6 players, so you would only have 4 draft spots and your last 2 players would be waiver wire claims. While the waiver wire would have more talent, I'm not sure that the move would be worth it. At the same time, the teams with top draft choices would have some tough decisions, do you give up that many draft picks for a proven player or hold onto the picks for a draft that is reportedly very deep and talented.

If this is going to be done, consideration also needs to given on how those teams are to be handled for the rest of this season. Normally teams in the bottom of the rankings might be inclined to trade a proven player for a top prospect or a player who was injured (Amare comes to mind for some reason)

Guru Rebuttal:
On the surface, I'd prefer a draft to an auction. I think the stronger teams would be more willing and able to sacrifice current and future draft picks for a marquis player, and I would rather use this as an opportunity to improve competitive balance.

beastiemiked
ID: 36935312
Wed, Oct 03, 2007, 14:51

I'm very strongly against contraction and will hire lobbyists to fight it.

KnicksFan
Sustainer
ID: 030815418
Wed, Oct 03, 2007, 14:54

Expansion! Columbus, Ohio needs a G20 team!

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Wed, Oct 03, 2007, 14:54

The real basis for contraction to even come about was the fact that there are a couple teams who have no chance to be competitive in the foreseeable future. Add that to the ever-so-thinning WW and you have a recipe for disaster for teams trying to rebuild. GPs have typically been wanting to be increased by rebuilding teams and to be left alone by the top teams. Problem is that it doesn't make much difference when you can't get players who contribute enough to help your team in the standings.

Let's take a look at GL's team. I know GL well and he's ALWAYS been active. He even worked hard last year after deciding not to return for personal reasons. He made some trades to try and be as competitive as possible and leave his team in better shape this year for whoever took over his team. Yet, his team still is awful. I mean you can't make chicken salad out of chicken s---. But it wasn't for him not trying, He's had some bad breaks. So many he has never been able to recover. What's more, he's not bailing because of it. He'd be playing if not for rl issues that has forced him to cut down on his leagues. Who would even want to take over a team like that? It is hopeless. CCR's is a little bit better--but not much.

With all that said, Contraction may not be the best answer. But it's the best one that has been suggested to me. Let's discuss this and see if contraction is indeed are best option or perhaps others will have ideas that would be better.

beastiemiked
ID: 36935312
Wed, Oct 03, 2007, 15:02

Guru
ID: 330592710
Wed, Oct 03, 2007, 15:41

Agreed. But these two teams are going to be orphaned, and difficult to find replacement managers for. If we really want 20 teams, then it is probably fairer to throw these players back into the pool and then have some sort of expansion draft, where players on all teams are available, subject to certain protection rights.

I'm not advocating that. I'm just suggesting that it may not be realistic to find managers who have the patience and the tenacity to nurse these teams back to health.

And I don't think there's any fundamental problem with having only 18 teams.

Frick
Donor
ID: 3410101718
Wed, Oct 03, 2007, 16:38

I think Guru's point make even more sense when you consider cash prizes. Realistically how long would it take for a manager to turn around either of those teams? 2-3 years? Is it reasonable for an incoming manager to pay into the prize pool for those years knowing that their chances of being competitive are extremely low for several years. Even after 2-3 years this league is competitive and getting a top team isn't a a sure thing. I doubt that any incoming manager is going to want to donate to a prize fund under these scenarios.

I can't say that I'm a huge fan of the auction idea, but was throwing it out there.

If the top teams stay at the top, and the bottom teams stay at the bottom, is that a sign that the number of keepers is off? While I don't participate in any of the other G2X leagues, I remember seeing debate on number of keepers for both of them. Would reducing the number of keepers, at some time in the future, result in more mobility for teams? Or is it simply that the top level managers are better?

rockafellerskank
Dude
ID: 27652109
Wed, Oct 03, 2007, 16:38

Before I comment on expansion, IF I am assigned Twarpy's old team with a draft penalty (which i am OK with). What type of penalty are we talking about? Draft in position 10 (middle) for all rounds of supplemental? Forfeit my 1st (+/-) round supplemental? This might affect my strategy for a contraction draft as my "price" for a contracted player will be different based on your final decision.

Of course, if I am not assigned Twarpy's team, I am asking this on behalf of another manager who gets it.

Although I am not opposed at all to the Guru plan, another thought for discussion.... Allow the new Twarpy owner to only keep x(6?) (not 8) of Twarpy's keepers, not penalize in the contraction draft, but get up to 8 keepers through the contraction draft --- having to compete with the rest of the league for that talent. Ok, maybe that's too convoluted.

On short, I'm flexible, no matter how you add me back in. That's about the extent of my opinion(s) on the matter.

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Wed, Oct 03, 2007, 16:51

Guru, just emailed Tosh and I another idea which is more simpler and probably more fair afterall.

Simply hold a one round contraction draft prior to declaring keepers. Do it in reverse order of the standings (not adjusted for the lottery). Any team that picks a player would have to declare that player to be a keeper. Any player not drafted would go into the supplemental draft pool.

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Wed, Oct 03, 2007, 17:01

Remember 6 keepers in this league...

As far as penalties for Twarpy's team. We really haven't decided yet. We're talked about moving the team back in the draft, assigning a first round pick penalty to a combination of both. Obviously his team is loaded--finishing 1st and 3rd the two years prior to last season. Obviously open to suggestions as we've never had to go to this length before.

Perm Dude
ID: 57943310
Wed, Oct 03, 2007, 17:41

#30: An excellent idea.

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Wed, Oct 03, 2007, 19:41

Twarpy is going to be returning to the league afterall. So rfs will be getting skinneej's team who has a solid foundation.

As far as penalties go, the latest thought would be to not forfeit any picks, but push his first round pick to the end of the first round and push the other rounds to just outside of the top 6 (picks 12 or 14 depending on contraction). Reasoning is that if he had won the league, he'd still get a pick so let's not strip him of a pick unless it is pure penalty. Moving him back a few picks in the remaining rounds gives him a more realistic draft slot, while not giving those who did finish "in the money" an extra spot forward throughout.

Tosh
Leader
ID: 057721710
Wed, Oct 03, 2007, 20:17

Just a couple quick notes …

We need to officially decide which site we are going to use (nba.com or yahoo). We moved to nba.com last season, based on a number of cool features they promised. It took until the end of the season for a couple of them (and a few were just never released), but by the end … it was a pretty solid site. It appears that they worked hard on the format over the summer, and have promised a better experience for everyone.

The stats/standings really sucked last season, and Guru provided daily sortable standings here at the message boards. Nba.com has changed their standings page and now offer apparently identical sortable options.

The Free Agent pick-up process looks to be much more efficient, with scoring periods of 1, 2, 3 and 4 weeks available.

Other good options include –
The ability to add 2nd managers/owners to teams
Allows multiple Commish controls
Free scoring
“CBS features” such as polls, team logos, and smack talk
Multi-team trades
Keeper ability

I would encourage everyone to give nba.com another chance. They took a lot of heat last season, and seem determined to offer a much better product.

Regarding contraction …

Just so everyone knows what we are looking at … here are the interesting players from GoatLockers and CCR’s teams.
Kevin Martin
Josh Howard
Tony Parker
Randy Foye
Corey Maggette
Andrew Bogut
Peja Stojakovic

None of these players are going to lead a team to a title, but it will certainly help the lower-tier teams in their attempt to be more competitive.

Peter N.
ID: 426242722
Wed, Oct 03, 2007, 20:20

Count me in fellas. Looking forward to another great year.

rockafellerskank
Dude
ID: 27652109
Wed, Oct 03, 2007, 21:03

How do I get a log in or "invite" to access the league page website?

So, when are keepers due? Approximate draft dates. :)

Tosh
Leader
ID: 057721710
Wed, Oct 03, 2007, 21:47

rfs - I think I have added you correctly at nba.com, and have sent you an invite. I'm not sure what happens from here. Let me know if you have any issues.

Keepers were due at Noon ET on Thursday, October 19 in 2006. The draft started the next day.

Frick
ID: 21041187
Wed, Oct 03, 2007, 21:52

When is the draft lottery?

I'm up for giving NBA.com another chance. The 3-way trade function worked last year. I set one up, and I believe it was at least considered by the other parties.

If you want to talk trade the best way to reach me my work e-mail africk at conn-selmer dot com

Sadly thanks to a work firewall I can no longer access my gmail account at work.

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Wed, Oct 03, 2007, 22:23

We really can't proceed further until this contraction issue is dealt with. Once it is we can work on the contraction draft or find two managers who will take over teh two worst teams in the league.

beastiemiked
ID: 594245
Thu, Oct 04, 2007, 07:53

Simply hold a one round contraction draft prior to declaring keepers. Do it in reverse order of the standings (not adjusted for the lottery). Any team that picks a player would have to declare that player to be a keeper. Any player not drafted would go into the supplemental draft pool.

This is grossly unfair to some teams. You might have another teams players in that pool if you decide that this is the best course of action.

Since we have more than one team available why don't we throw all the open teams players into a pool and the managers we select to replace them can have a little mini draft of those players. This redistributes the talent from the open teams and gives incoming managers a little control of the players they get.

Frick
Donor
ID: 3410101718
Thu, Oct 04, 2007, 10:27

The problem with throwing the players into a pool and having those 2 managers pick, is that the talent pool between those 2 teams isn't very good.

Since I would have the first pick in the proposed contraction draft, I'm not sure my views are unbiased enough to comment on. If I picked a player, would I be allowed to trade him, or would he have to start the season on my team?

Getting back to Ref's question of contraction. Can we just have a vote to see if there is a consensus on contracting two teams?

Guru
ID: 330592710
Thu, Oct 04, 2007, 11:50

I'd also suggest that we decide whether or not to contract ASAP. For this vote, the presumption should be that if we do eliminate two teams, the players from the contracted teams will be available for redistribution in some manner similar to those that have been suggested.

If we aren't going to contract, then we should stop wasting time figuring out how to do it. If we are, then we need to get on with figuring that out.

Guru
ID: 330592710
Thu, Oct 04, 2007, 11:57

As to using NBA.com, I'm willing to give the Commishes some latitude on this. If they think we should continue, I'll support that.

I do not want to be stuck posting daily sortable standings again this year, however. It appears that NBA.com is providing that functionality this season. But if it fails, do not assume that I will step up to fill that void again. That was a pain last year.

Absent other considerations, I'd prefer Yahoo, due to its familiarity to all of us and because all of my other roto leagues are likely to be hosted there, simplfying my daily review. But I can adapt, and am willing to support the recommendation of the Commissioners.

KnicksFan
Sustainer
ID: 030815418
Thu, Oct 04, 2007, 11:58

Frick 28:
I think Guru's point make even more sense when you consider cash prizes. Realistically how long would it take for a manager to turn around either of those teams? 2-3 years?

Well, from my experience it took 2 years to move an untalented team into the top 6. In 2004 I inherited the following group of keepers:

Jarvis Hayes
Jamaal Tinsley
Joe Johnson
Michael Sweetney
Mark Blount
Mike Dunleavy

Great One
Sustainer
ID: 053272014
Thu, Oct 04, 2007, 12:06

Just like in the "real" NBA, I think you can turn a hoops team around quicker than any sport because of the depth and impact that rookies make. Whoever gets Durant this year (and Oden or so we thought) would have transformed their team pretty quick. All you need is a couple studs to emerge and then fill in a random shot blocker or 3 point shooter who comes out of nowhere and ya got something.

Species
Dude
ID: 07724916
Thu, Oct 04, 2007, 13:28

Regarding websites, I echo Guru's thoughts. Yahoo is familiar but if it looks like NBA.com has improved then I'm willing to go with it. I'll be logging in for RotoHog anyway ;-)

Contraction is a huge issue, but I think I would be for it....even though as a top 5 team I am amongst those most negatively affected. I haven't heard bmd's team of lobbyists speak though, so I am unaware of the large objections. I rising tide raises all boats, so with a stronger set of keepers to start with, even if Frick is able to draft a Parker/Martin/Bogut level player, it's not like all of a sudden he's in the stratosphere of G20.

I would be vehemently against doing a supplemental draft that would have these new players be allowed to be keepers (per Post #30) for those teams. WHY ON EARTH should they get the advantage of not only getting a free keeper couple with still having their high supplemental pick too? You mean the team with the top pick gets to take (as an example) Tony Parker AND Kevin Durant? NO WAY.

That said, if we have competant, active managers up to the challenge of turning things around (GO's buddy? I shudder! ;-) ), why rock the boat?

Great One
Sustainer
ID: 053272014
Thu, Oct 04, 2007, 13:48

I echo the echo that I would prefer Yahoo. I just don't trust NBA after what they did last year.

And yeah, Slizz is already considered the "Species" of G24 as he's been a good addition, started some good discussions and is always looking to wheel and deal. Come to think of it, I've never seen Slizz and Species in the same room! hmm...

Tosh
Leader
ID: 057721710
Thu, Oct 04, 2007, 14:00

Species - One of the biggest things I'm trying to wrap my head around is the value of the contracted players. For me, personally, I would draft Durant, Green, Horford, Conley, and maybe Oden all before I would take any of the contracted players. And there are still a good number of very good rookies that could/should be drafted ahead of the contracted players.

That means that guys like Tony Parker, Josh Howard, and Kevin Martin are slipping down to the #6-12 slots, and the lower-tier teams aren't getting that much better at all.

That's why I would be in favor of just letting teams simply add a contracted player as a replacement for keeper #6. Don't "charge" them a first rounder. Maybe a second rounder. But let's try to make the league more competitive as a whole.

If we can find two people RIGHT AWAY willing to take on a multi-year rebuilding process, bring them to the table. But we can't waste any more time thinking about it. We need to move forward.

beastiemiked
ID: 37951412
Thu, Oct 04, 2007, 14:58

From what I've seen of Slizz he's a very active manager in football. That would leave just one open slot and pretty sure we could fill it just by posting in the football G24 thread or having a hoops thread asking for active managers.

I'm a little surprised nobody liked my idea of throwing all open teams players in the pool and having the new managers have a mini draft. If we don't contract whoever gets Twarpy's team won one helluva a coinflip.

Wish I could talk on AIM but I'm out of the country until next friday. I'll try to check in as much as possible.

Great One
Sustainer
ID: 053272014
Thu, Oct 04, 2007, 15:54

I think thats a pretty good idea, at least they could reshuffle those teams and get some guys they prefer.

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Thu, Oct 04, 2007, 16:00

My 2 year old has been throwing up every 20 mins. all night and I just got a 2 hour nap--the first bit of sleep I've gotten--so my head is not the clearest right now, but I'll try...

Re: 49, in case you missed it, Twarpy is getting Twarpy's team. RFS got skinneej's team.

Here are the two team's who are left:

GoatLocker

Keyon Dooling - ORL [G] 0.410 0.809 7.9 0.3 1.3 1.7 0.8 0.2 0.5
Tony Parker - SAS [G] 0.520 0.783 18.6 0.4 3.2 5.5 1.1 0.1 0.2
J.R. Smith - DEN [G] 0.441 0.810 13.0 0.5 2.3 1.4 0.8 0.1 2.4
Randy Foye - MIN [G] 0.434 0.854 10.1 0.6 2.7 2.8 0.6 0.3 0.8
Corey Maggette - LAC [G, F] 0.454 0.820 16.9 1.2 5.9 2.8 0.9 0.2 0.2
James Posey - BOS [G, F] 0.431 0.827 7.7 0.9 5.0 1.3 1.0 0.3 1.4
Darius Songaila - WAS [F] 0.524 0.852 7.6 1.2 3.6 1.0 0.5 0.3 0.0
Charlie Villanueva - MIL [F] 0.470 0.820 11.8 1.6 5.8 0.9 0.6 0.3 0.7
Juwan Howard - MIN [F] 0.465 0.824 9.7 1.7 5.9 1.6 0.4 0.1 0.0
Channing Frye - POR [F, C] 0.433 0.787 9.5 1.3 5.5 0.9 0.5 0.6 0.0
Kwame Brown - LAL [C] 0.591 0.440 8.4 2.0 6.0 1.8 1.0 1.2 0.0
Andrew Bogut - MIL [C] 0.553 0.577 12.3 2.5 8.8 3.0 0.7 0.5 0.0

CCRider

Carlos Arroyo - ORL [G] 0.425 0.795 7.7 0.4 1.9 2.8 0.5 0.0 0.2
Sarunas Jasikevicius - GSW [G] 0.412 0.922 7.4 0.3 1.3 3.0 0.4 0.0 0.9
Speedy Claxton - ATL [G] 0.327 0.550 5.3 0.3 1.9 4.4 1.7 0.1 0.1
Jamal Crawford - NYK [G] 0.400 0.838 17.6 0.7 3.2 4.4 1.0 0.1 1.7
Kevin Martin - SAC [G] 0.473 0.844 20.2 0.9 4.3 2.2 1.2 0.1 1.6
Juan Dixon - TOR [G] 0.425 0.932 11.1 0.4 2.8 1.6 1.0 0.1 1.0
Charlie Bell - MIL [G, F] 0.437 0.780 13.5 0.7 2.9 3.0 1.2 0.0 1.5
Josh Howard - DAL [G, F] 0.459 0.827 18.9 1.9 6.8 1.8 1.2 0.8 1.3
Matt Harpring - UTA [G, F] 0.491 0.767 11.6 1.5 4.6 1.3 0.7 0.1 0.2
Peja Stojakovic - NOH [G, F] 0.423 0.816 17.8 0.8 4.2 0.8 0.6 0.3 2.6
Antonio McDyess - DET [F] 0.526 0.691 8.1 2.0 6.0 0.9 0.7 0.8 0.0
Nazr Mohammed - DET [C] 0.532 0.610 5.6 1.7 4.5 0.2 0.5 0.8 0.0

Pretty tough to go anywhere with that. Even if you added skinneej's team in the mix. So you're going to make all the teams more even? Well they aren't very good. That's like Guru's suggestion of an expansion draft but only with the bad teams. I'd like to avoid any sort of expansion draft. where teams lose one of their 6 keepers to those two teams. We're not expanding, but Guru's idea is definitely logical. I just would rather go with some of the other ideas first.

My team is a top 5 team as well. Man that sounds strange seeing that! Anyhow, my philosophy has always been league ahead of my team. sure that might sound noble, but my goal is for these leagues to continue well after I leave them. To contract (or even make major rule changes) might suggest that RFS and I were wrong when we created them. But I see it more as a living entity that grows with the league. I embrace change but don't like making change for change's sake.

I think we can find two people to take those teams over. Obviously the status quo tends to help the top teams in a keeper scenario. I feel where bmd is coming from. He's worked his team and turned it into a top team so why should the league get more parity by contracting and perhaps thicken the talent pool around him? I think it's a valid point and I don't consider it as being selfish at all. And I welcome his passion to reamin the status quo. I also appreciate other's opinion and how it hasn't turned personal. No matt what we decide, I'll embrace the league's decision and happily work to make this another solid year. Last year may have been our best and it was certainly my team's best.

I have talked to Slizz. The guy has been great for G24. The man knows his football and he is passionate about it. However, he assures me that this doesn't translate over to hoops. He will be active and try hard and would accept an invite if we should give him one, but generally doesn't do real well in this game. Still, he's earned my trust.

But you can only do so much with either of those teams. GL's best player is who Tony Parker? A guy who is so exhausted that he's not even participating in competitive practices at all because of playing non-stop this summer with his French team? CCR has who Josh Howard as his best? Peja? And whoever they add might not even help them right away. We know that's true if it's Oden. Will Durrant or any of the other guys really contribute right away? Even if they are a stud and can pull them up a couple spots--will that really make a difference? Tough getting teams to be active when they are hopeless. I agree with Frick on the prize pool as well.

Also, the league has gotten so competitive, strong and active (save acouple from last year) that the WW was depleted. Sure you could find a nuggett when injuries crop up, but it was tough going last year. Twarpy WILL be active this year and if we stay at 20--which I am definitely open to--things will be that much harder for them.

As to Guru's latest distribution proposal--so what if Frick gets say Parker or Howard and Durrant or one of those other "top" rookies? Sure it hirts temas like mine who have more than 6 keepers as we won't get much if anything to trade away our extras. This affects me huge as I have 7 legit keeps and I traded my first rounder for one of them and I also will forfeit my 3rd rounder. I really need a high pick badly to have any chance this year. If we throw them all into the draft then the better players fall to the better teams. What about teams who have traded their pick that a pick would cost? I don't have the answers, just questions to think about. I am really open to many options here.

Finally the site. NBA.com dropped the ball last year. I was also prepared to give it the boot. The site is def. more functional and commish-friendly than Yahoo!. But it lacked it so many other basic areas that it wasn't worth it. Well Tosh has been emailing m since Sept. 1st with all the fixes. I had been so busy with G24 stuff that I hadn't had a lot of time to work on things. Tosh has worked very hard on there. He's looked around. Talked to the people thta run the site. Looked into its shortfalls from last year, made some huge screw-ups (welcome to commishing my friend!) and assures me that everything we had issues with has been corrected. They have also added a constitution that we all love so much with CBS. They do give us free live scoring, etc. as well as allows commishs to go in and fix things, allow multiple owners and add/remove owners, etc. We even used their drafting tools for keepers leagues last year. I have spent over an hour this week on the site. I even looked for a place to find all of their improvement/enhancements as CBS states but can't find such a list. He will talk to you about those things. I can appreciate wanting one-stop location for all of your leagues, but if NBA.com truly has their stuff together this year, well thier enhancements over Yahoo! is the reason we went there in the first place. I trust Tosh and he is VERY happy with what they've done.

Moving forward. Let's finish up discussions on IF we're going to contract or not. I'd prefer to have just one email vote, but will happily do two (another one for voting on how to contract teams and contraction drafts, etc.) if that will speed things up. I have been talking to some potential replacements just in case we didn't contract. Most think that our league is "too hard" and that's w/o even mentioning their team's cupboards are practically bare. Slizz would likely be one team and I have a cople nominations and a couple others who have emailed me with potential interest. Again, none know what they migh be getting themselves into--not even Slizz.

Tosh
Leader
ID: 057721710
Thu, Oct 04, 2007, 16:18

One of the main reasons I would like to see contraction is to add more live bodies on the FA list. It was completely barren after a month of the season.

Perm Dude
ID: 529947
Thu, Oct 04, 2007, 16:27

Yeah, I agree.

Twarpy
ID: 53443916
Fri, Oct 05, 2007, 03:07

First off commishes thanks for the re-invite to the league. Most of you who talk to me via AIM on a semi-regular basis know I went through a couple of things in real life which severly limited my time in all leagues during the basketball/hockey season. Those troubles are way behind me now and I am ready for an extremely active season, and to clear my name out of the mud that it currently is in.

Ref, Tosh and Guru I thank for giving me the chance to come back, and going forward I will be as active as I have been in years prior, as well as I am within the other G20/G24 leagues!

Mike D
Leader
ID: 041831612
Fri, Oct 05, 2007, 07:59

I recommend that Twarpy gets Twarpy's team.

blackjackis21
ID: 227131712
Fri, Oct 05, 2007, 09:25

I haven't weighed in because I don't have a strong opinion one way or the other on contraction. I guess I'd lean towards agreeing that it might make the league better as far as increasing the depth of the waiver pool. Personally, though, it would stink a little bit as some of the moves I made towards the end of last season where I traded away draft picks in an (unsuccessful) attempt to hang on to first were done with the thought that I should be able to get some of those picks back with some pre-season trades. At least that's the way I remember it - Dwight Gooden in particular. Can someone point me to a list of traded draft picks?

Contraction wouldn't necessarily kill those chances, but certainly would have an effect. /whine

Guru
ID: 330592710
Fri, Oct 05, 2007, 09:59

[smartass]
Dwight Gooden! Wow!

I never realized he played in the NBA last year.
[/smartass]

Great One
Sustainer
ID: 053272014
Fri, Oct 05, 2007, 10:02

Yeah, and I plan to draft Strawberry! (wait... thats actually possible... hmm... :)

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Fri, Oct 05, 2007, 10:09

bj21, that's why I was hoping there'd me more discussion before a league vote, but it's getting to the point (if not there already) where we just have to take a vote and see what's up.

On the site under Rules there is our constitution which has our rules including traded draft picks. It's also located on our g20/24 web site. I'll post them anyhow:

Trades Involving 2007 Draft Picks:

2-7 GO receives bj21s 4th round pick for his 6th rounder (Nachbar/Parker deal)
2-27 GL gets Ref's 3rd rounder. Ref gets GL's 5th rounder (Delonte West/James Posey)
2-28 Peter N gets Ref's 1st Rounder. Ref gets Peter N's 3rd rounder (Tinsley/Devin Brown)
3-10 Tosh receives BJ21's 1st and 3rd round picks for his 3rd and 5th rounders (Gooden)
3-18 GO receives PD's 2nd rounder for his 5th rounder (Alston)

So, we need to have this vote sent out pretty quickly.

In a nutshell, the arguements on contraction are:

Pro: The two teams in question are horrible and pumping competetive life in them will take at least 2-3 years...The WW has become so thin with our ever-improving and active managers that there is not much there to choose from. The league as a whole will be stronger.

Con: There are teams like these two teams in all leagues. Don't rock the boat. Contraction Draft is grossly unfair. Just because a couple teams have become extremely weak, why should the rest of us be penalized? Fill the league with two very strong managers and let's move on.

My thoughts: Either way we go, I don't want anyone so pissed that they are oing to be unhappy or worse decide to leave. I'd much rather water-down any proposal and everyone be happy. However, once we take a vote, that is what we're going to do and if someone decides to leave, then all we can do is replace them. So if anyone has any other ideas or compromises before this vote, now's the time to pipe up.

blackjackis21
ID: 227131712
Fri, Oct 05, 2007, 10:14

Now we can all see why I wasn't able to hang on for first (or second...)

It's still baseball season, right?

Perm Dude
ID: 5593356
Fri, Oct 05, 2007, 10:22

Are we voting here? If so, I vote for contraction by eliminating the two teams. If it *really* sucks we can certainly open it up next season.

Great One
Sustainer
ID: 053272014
Fri, Oct 05, 2007, 10:37

If we contract these I'm thinking we should look into adding maybe a flex starting lineup spot?

Everyone would have a couple extra guys more depth than, so may as well put them to use.

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Fri, Oct 05, 2007, 10:58

No, we will do an email vote. Feel free to post whatever you feel will help those on the fence.

GO, I'm not sure we want to do that. IF we cut 24 spots, adding 18 more wouldn't give us but 6 more players to choose from. I mean it would be better htan before and 18 are looking instead of 20. I think upping the GP maxes would be better--but that's one man's opinion.

beastiemiked
ID: 3095258
Fri, Oct 05, 2007, 11:03

I never like to rock the boat as these leagues have always been a blast. The teams are THAT bad. Not going to compete for the title this year but there are a few young guys that might provide a solid foundation.

You all know where I stand. Whatever the league decides isn't going to keep me from dominating ;)

Frick
Donor
ID: 3410101718
Fri, Oct 05, 2007, 11:25

I'm against contraction only because it means I have the worst team in the league. Actually I think that contraction could help the league.

One of the issues that I had last year was injuries. In last year's thread I asked and people agreed with me that the majority of the players on my team that I dropped would have instantly been snagged off the waive wire. So I had to sit there, at one point, with 5 guys on the IL. Yeah my games played was extremely low, but should I have dropped someone like Sean May or Etan Thomas when they were injured for anyone who was availalbe on the WW last year? At that point I was already in the bottom half of the standings and while I tried to work some trades, but didn't get anything finalized.

I would like to see the two teams contracted and the max # of games increased. Hopefully that would lead to some of the fringe guys bouncing around teams. And, those fringe guys can suddenly become very useful if they get traded or they move up the roster due to other injuries.

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Fri, Oct 05, 2007, 11:30

Does anyone else feel this way? I'm sure bmd meant they AREN'T THAT bad.

W/o researching so this could be a player or two off, here's a possible keeper list form the two teams:

GL

Kwame Brown - LAL [C] 0.591 0.440 8.4 2.0 6.0 1.8 1.0 1.2 0.0
Andrew Bogut - MIL [C] 0.553 0.577 12.3 2.5 8.8 3.0 0.7 0.5 0.0
Tony Parker - SAS [G] 0.520 0.783 18.6 0.4 3.2 5.5 1.1 0.1 0.2
Randy Foye - MIN [G] 0.434 0.854 10.1 0.6 2.7 2.8 0.6 0.3 0.8
Corey Maggette - LAC [G, F] 0.454 0.820 16.9 1.2 5.9 2.8 0.9 0.2 0.2
Charlie Villanueva - MIL [F] 0.470 0.820 11.8 1.6 5.8 0.9 0.6 0.3 0.7

He just drafted Foye I think and he should be better. JR Smith could be in the mix I supposde.

CCR

Peja Stojakovic - NOH [G, F] 0.423 0.816 17.8 0.8 4.2 0.8 0.6 0.3 2.6
Josh Howard - DAL [G, F] 0.459 0.827 18.9 1.9 6.8 1.8 1.2 0.8 1.3
Jamal Crawford - NYK [G] 0.400 0.838 17.6 0.7 3.2 4.4 1.0 0.1 1.7
Kevin Martin - SAC [G] 0.473 0.844 20.2 0.9 4.3 2.2 1.2 0.1 1.6
Antonio McDyess - DET [F] 0.526 0.691 8.1 2.0 6.0 0.9 0.7 0.8 0.0
Nazr Mohammed - DET [C] 0.532 0.610 5.6 1.7 4.5 0.2 0.5 0.8 0.0

Man CCR's team has less depth than GL's. If he trade to upgrade his keepers than his draft will even be worse but it needs to be done--further hurtung his future opportunities. GL has some youngsters and shouldn't be competitive soon, but at least has a little talent. Both need to be significantly upgraded IMM.

RecycledSpinalFluid
Dude
ID: 204401122
Fri, Oct 05, 2007, 13:43

I recommend Twarpy get Goat's team.

Guru
ID: 330592710
Fri, Oct 05, 2007, 14:19

[67] I was thinking the same thing...

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Sun, Oct 07, 2007, 23:26

I've been having 2nd thoughts about contraction. I had hoped there would be more discussion over the weekend as we HAVE to have a vote or what you have and get moving here. Maybe there is no more discussion to be had, but let me add this.

If we contract, there is no going back. Want to be sure that contracting brings about the desired result. Will contraction, give teh bottom teams an unfair advantage who get to pick these guys? Will it be unfair to the teams who have worked so hard in the past? Can these two teams be salavaged by adding two managers who will work their ass off and research and draft well and work the ww and trading options? I think if we had a solution that most thought was fair from top to bottom it would be easier to figure it out.

Just thinking that if I'm having these issues when I've been over this a hundred times, others might be as well. If anyone has anything new to add please speak up now. My guess is the contraction vote will happen as soon as Monday (tomorrow).

Tosh
Leader
ID: 057721710
Sun, Oct 07, 2007, 23:57

I've come up with an idea that is an attempt to meet in the middle of the various options and be fair to all. Contract to 19 teams.

Slizz is interested in joining the league. Why don't we just let Slizz take his choice between the two teams (I think GL is the better of the two) ... contract the other and throw the players into a contraction draft. Charge a 2nd rounder.

There are only a couple good players on CCR's team (Martin, Howard). Slizz and Frick nab these two good players in exchange for their 2nd rounder ... and we're done with it.

It only really helps out the 2 worst teams, and still adds 12 players into the FA pool.

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Mon, Oct 08, 2007, 00:08

Well it would go in reverse order if we did that so Slizz would get the first pick. Would want to make sure the players in question would be fair value. Slizz will take a team if there is one available to be had. If we need two managers, then we'd still have to identify the final one.

Tosh
Leader
ID: 057721710
Mon, Oct 08, 2007, 14:32

Does nobody have anymore input? We need to move forward, and we (as Commishs') were certainly hoping for more ideas, or support/lack of for any of the ideas proposed.

We need to have a vote, and want to get it done on the first ballot. Without the input from the league, we (as Commishs') might as well blindly throw darts and propose whatever we think is is the ideal outcome.

Comeon managers! If you feel one way or the other regarding any proposal ... please speak up ASAP. It will make things easier for everyone.

Perm Dude
ID: 47913713
Mon, Oct 08, 2007, 14:47

Well, I don't believe that there is "no going back" if we decide to contract. We can always expand later. I suspect, however, that that much less competition for the WW and that many more FA's will make the league just that much more competitive.

If we have a new manager, I'd say let him pick keepers from the two dead teams, throw the rest back, and move on with 19 managers.

Great One
Sustainer
ID: 053272014
Mon, Oct 08, 2007, 14:57

Honestly, I think those teams can be fixed (as I pointed out before) hoops seems to be a quicker fix than any other sport.

So I would vote against contraction, lets get a couple new guys (I know Slizz would be up for the challenge for 1) and let them run with it. And if they want to trade say 3rd round picks for someone else's leftovers, I think thats a good way to start for them - get a core of starters and then worry about filling in your bench via the waiver wire etc and hope to get lucky with a "Biedrins" type player late.

rockafellerskank
Dude
ID: 27652109
Mon, Oct 08, 2007, 15:02

This is kind of a talking point, but rather posed as a question. I guess it's an argument against contraction.

CMIAW, but the reason given for contraction is two teams are [apparently] beyond repair due to lack of talent. I get that argument... no one wants these orphans, etc...

But, here is the question: What if in the next year or few, we keep getting 1,2,3 more teams disrepair due to neglect? Are we going to keep contracting? It would assume the same argument could be posed each time someone bankrupts a team... then you would be down to a highly competitive Yahoo! league of 12 or so teams.

The original reason to create 20-24 team leagues was to present a challenge and create a value to depth. So, I have the least right to say anything since I am a retread, but my vote would be "no" to contraction of that is the sole argument for it.

rockafellerskank
Dude
ID: 27652109
Mon, Oct 08, 2007, 15:05

Oops. Posted too soon. My alternative would be to make a 1-time exception and give those 2 teams an draft rearrangement of 1 extra pick at the end of rounds 1 & 2 (flip coin) in exchange for their last 2 draft picks. It helps them get a bit healthier w/o letting them rape the first round.

Perm Dude
ID: 47913713
Mon, Oct 08, 2007, 15:08

That's a good question. I would think that part of the reason for these orphans is the limited number of WW & FA opportunities, a reason which would be partially alleviated by contraction.

I don't think it is any coincidence that these are two teams needing managers which kind of lack a lot of talent. In other words, the neglect is part of a cycle.

Tosh
Leader
ID: 057721710
Mon, Oct 08, 2007, 15:11

rfs (75) - Since you have not played the last couple years, perhaps you don't know how weak the FA list is. There is discussion of it in last year's thread. You'll find it littered with guys that never play more than 8-10 minutes per game that nobody wants on their roster anyways. Contraction can add 12-24 more players to choose from.

GO (74) - As far as I know, we have no one else interested in taking on a bottom-dweller. Perhaps there is, and I just don't know about it.

PD (73) - I considered letting the new manager pick his 6 keepers from both rosters ... but when combined ... form a pretty good list of keepers, and a likely top-10 team. That is why I proposed Slizz select one team (and still get one player from the other team via the contration draft).

rockafellerskank
Dude
ID: 27652109
Mon, Oct 08, 2007, 15:15

Why would the FA list be any slimmer last year that it was in year 1,2,3? There are the same number of NBA teams, players, and Gurupie teams. There are still 48 minutes in an NBA game. Unless the average NBA teams was playing the average starter more minutes, the average bench players should be getting the same average minutes, on average! ;)

Great One
Sustainer
ID: 053272014
Mon, Oct 08, 2007, 15:16

Thats weird, cause I vaguely remember discussing with Mike D that there were like 5 guys I wanted to claim and I just didn't have the room. Wasn't overflowing with excess talent, but I always felt there was someone out there that could help even if they were just filling in because of injury or whatever.

Tosh
Leader
ID: 057721710
Mon, Oct 08, 2007, 15:18

It seemed way weaker last season than any season ever before. I cannot explain why. I'm just an average fantasy manager. :-)

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Mon, Oct 08, 2007, 15:32

The more I think about it, the more we might simply be two very good managers away from being ok the way we are w/o contraction. It's not going to be easy. But GO is right that this league is the easiest to turn things around. I'm a shining example of that. I finished a half point ahead of CCR two years ago (I think 15th place on the last day). Then last year I finish 5th and he finishes 19th. My team wasn't that deep and my only notable draft pick was Roy who was also injured part of the season.

Not saying either of these two teams can finish top 6 this year, but with the right draft picks, pick-ups and trades, perhaps they can do it next year. I mean whoever ends up taking Oden probably isn't playing for this year either. I mean how much of an impact will any rookie have this year? Problem is the lack of real studs on these two teams. Also with a more active league, the WW will be even thinner and require more chances and more games wasted. Maybe upping teh games limits will help force the stronger teams to let go of a better player who gets hurt just to keep from getting passed?

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Mon, Oct 08, 2007, 15:37

It was worse before the Bobcats were added to the NBA. That was a great season. Suddenly you have another 8 guys or so. But then it got harder again. It should be harder this year if we stay at 20 as we expect to have everyone active. This league is supposed to be hard though. Infact, I talked to one very well-known Gurupie and he didn't want to join this league because it was so tough. I still think I might be able to talk him into it though if needed.

Mike D
Leader
ID: 041831612
Mon, Oct 08, 2007, 16:14

I never had a problem with the FA list and was always way in the minority there (along with GO). There were always guys I wanted on my team and couldn't fit. So that doesn't really help the discussion I guess.

I don't really have a strong opinion about the contraction issue but I guess the key is whether there are 2 quality managers available. If so, I say keep 20. If not, reduce to 18/19.

Frick
Donor
ID: 3410101718
Mon, Oct 08, 2007, 16:49

I agree with MikeD and GO that there are guys out there that look tempting, but problem is no one pulls the trigger on those moves. So the same marginal guys float around. If anyone of any significant value hits the WW it looks like a group of sharks hitting a chum line.

See my posts in last year's thread about who I could drop to remain marginally competitive. Sean May? Would have been snagged up in an instanst by a manager who didn't have the injury worries problems I did. Drop Shaq? He was an anchor to my team, but would you expect to be dropped and remain on the WW? Shane Battier, Jarrett Jack, Renaldo Balkman, Etan Thomas would all have probably generated several WW claims.

Fabricio Oberto I doubt it, but possabily because he was a C who played occasionally.

Marcus Banks, I held him in the hopes that he would get traded, but yeah I should have dropped him and gotten someone else.

rockafellerskank
Dude
ID: 27652109
Mon, Oct 08, 2007, 17:01

That would certainly be frustrating Frick. However, how does a WW 8-12 players deeper solve the problem about dropping Shaw or may, et al? Look at the worst 8-12 guys on the 2 teams up for contraction and add them to the FA list. Is there anyone there that would have been an acceptable payer to you?

If you want to solve serious injury problem via FA's, you will need to contract to about 12 teams, otherwise, you will have the same problem if you get hit hard whether you have 18 or 20 teams. IMO.

I said a while ago that i would go with the flow, so please don't construe me as argumentative on this issue. I just don't think that contraction solves the problem put forth stated as a need to contract. These problems will exist regardless of what is decided.

Peter N.
ID: 426242722
Mon, Oct 08, 2007, 17:32

Sorry to chime in so late, but I would be against contracting assuming we can get two guys who are up for a challenge. It is going to take two guys that are active and willing to sacrifice this year and possibly next.

It's been proven not only in this league, but in our other leagues that a turn-around can occur. Best example is Species in G20 Baseball. It took him a little while, but he took over a team that was down-and-out and now has it as a perennial contender.

Looking over the thread, I see that Slizz is up for the challenge. His knowledge and activity in the football league has impressed me tremendously. I guess it'd be all about finding one more guy. If we can't get another guy, then that leaves us with no other choice than to contract to 19. That'd be really unfortunate though.

Tosh
Leader
ID: 057721710
Mon, Oct 08, 2007, 18:20

I'm not sure how this fits into the discussion ...if at all. But I just finished perusing the final rosters.

There were a total of 42 undrafted players that made the final-day rosters. 30 of them were 'active' on the final day (Ref and GO each had 4 actives).

I did not do an exact count, but it appears that a little more than 1/2 of those 42 players were added to rosters in the final 15 days of the season.

As a Commish note - You are now able to set your keepers via your team page at nba.com

Great One
ID: 201155199
Mon, Oct 08, 2007, 19:53

If we add two new guys - like to throw out another idea to help them come up with 6 people worth keeping... how about they can also choose keepers from the available current (non-rookie) FA pool? there are probably a couple names out there not too bad that they would at least consider over some of the awful names on their respective teams. Maybe a guy that was hurt down the stretch or was a backup and now will get some minutes.
For this situation I would completely endorse them having the right to pick some of those guys as well just to give them a few more options.

Frick
ID: 21041187
Mon, Oct 08, 2007, 21:29

I don't have a problem with not contracting.

Either way, I think we need to make a decision, we have 21(?) days until the start of the season. That's plenty of time, but I would prefer to have some time to make deals prior to keepers being due and after the lottery drawing. My team could pick anywhere from 1st to 6th(?) and the draft lottery will determine a lot of what my plans are for the year.

Species
Dude
ID: 07724916
Tue, Oct 09, 2007, 00:11

I echo Pete's sentiments. Let's get a move on, and if we can find a 20th manager willing to take on a challenge, I'd rather not contract for the sake of contracting.....but I'm not so vehemently opposed that it's going to curb my enthusiasm.

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Tue, Oct 09, 2007, 00:25

I think the only person who has strongly objected to anything was bmd. The fact that about everyone else is seemingly on the fence suggests to me that maybe we should just find the last manager and run the lottery and get a move on. So we will get something done today--whether it's identifying the final manager or contracting by one or two teams.

Pistol Pete
ID: 5912221
Tue, Oct 09, 2007, 01:30

Sorry I post so seldomly, but here I go....

This league started out as head-to-head, 9 keepers, sky-high game limits, several other changes I can't remember, etc... Long story short, it has changed a bit. IIRC, the original idea was to create a competitive hoops league for gurupies. Now, I don't know about the other G-- leagues, or the other hoops leagues but throughout the brief history of G20 Hoops it has been "adapt and overcome if you can."

I'm thinking maybe its time we let it ride for a year or two. Also, I feel one main reason the FA pool is slimmer is because, as a league, we have grown. I mean look, even Guru has been a part of this league the last couple years or so. It's a competitive league.

I'm nobody's AIM buddy but I try as hard as the next guy....maybe on shoestring...but I will always try to roll with the changes. If we really want to have and keep the best managers should we not try to settle on a format we can stick with? So my team sucks for a couple years or so...or your team sucks worse the next year...Big deal. Heck, we all make mistakes...or don't plan ahead...or can't plan ahead. It's hard to get a good feel for your team's future when we change so much from year-to-year. Heck, I don't know if I'll ever figure it out, but I'm sure it could be much better for everyone involved if we could establish a little more stability overall.

I'll be here to battle no matter what. I'd just like to see something stick for awhile. To be honest, I don't know how I'd vote on contraction right now but I will vote for "keep it simple!"

...I'll go back to quiet mode for now.

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Tue, Oct 09, 2007, 10:43

Thanks PP. It's important for me, as a commish, to get feedback from as many participants as possible. I've definitely learned a lot from doing that the past few years.

When we started we basically took an idea from one individual manager and changed our format to suit his. After a total flop first season where we were H2H and 9 keepers and not one trade and very limited activity with several managers and continuous activity from others as they rotated their players daily to add GPs to add counting stats so they could win H2H every week. RFS and I got together and said this is NOT what we envisioned. We proposed to the league that we go back to the way we originally wanted. It was overwhelmingy approved (only 3 or 4 votes against). We've been that way ever since--Roto and 6 Keepers. So except for a tweak or two along the way (lottery, GPs, etc.), it's been pretty set save some manager turnnover.

The sentiment seems to be to keep things the same. I'm still seeing a vote as there is a proposal on the board for contraction. I talked to a few managers last night and again spent some time talking to Slizz. I tell you what, he is already planning his strategy and he doesn't even have a team yet!!!

I started working on identifying managers again yesterday. I posted in the RIFC QL thread when it started and got some interest. Also have talked to some managers who have been nominated and went out on my own to talk to managers. I feel that this last spot (if not contracted) is critical. It needs to be filled by a manager who is ultra-active. He needs to be able to understand what he has and what he doesn't. Then survey the rest of the league to try and fill those needs via trade w/o giving away the farm. Then the draft is huge. Then actively working the in-season ww and trades is vital. All of this while trying to stay as competitive as possible while he's doing it. We have a few managers like that already in our league. If the guy doesn't have the time or spread too thin--it's probably not going to work out.

Finally, perhaps as commishs we need to do a better job of replacing managers more quickly. My thought is to try to give everyone teh benefit of the doubt when we can since this is a Keeper/Dynasty league. Well, we have the ability now to replace managers on the fly and I think we should try and have a couple managers on the waiting list to either take over or at least share a team if the need arises. Not talking about having a quick trigger, but it's not fair to the league to have managers so inactive that it hurts the league. In this setup, even a little neglect is magnified.

Great One
Sustainer
ID: 053272014
Tue, Oct 09, 2007, 11:13

My (streamlined) thoughts.

Lets go with Slizz and find one more guy. Simply flip a coin for who gets which team.

Lets get those GP limits up a touch like 5 games or so. What is it now - 88? How about 92-93 games?
Not so much that you are always rotating, but a few more games should increase activity.

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Tue, Oct 09, 2007, 11:41

GO, others have mentioned this as well and as many know, I have been a proponent of this as well. 12-8 defeated 92 GPs two years ago--but 4 of those would have approved 90. Maybe in the vote we add a place to either keep 88 or add games and then if the add games wins they can vote for 90 or 92 in the same vote???

At this point, I just want to move on and I don't think that can be accomplished until we have this vote and we find THE manager to fill the slot if needed. I'll give everyone an hour or two to add any more comments and then I'll setup the vote. Pete never got the re-invites so check your spam as I'll send it from NBA site again. It's just easier (though I LOVE the gmail conversations to group all responses in the same email so much better!)

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Tue, Oct 09, 2007, 13:06

No other comments so I am preparing the vote. If you have ANY nominations to fill this last spot, please email me immediately with their contact information. If the contraction proposal fails, I'll add Slizz immediately and hope to add the final manager as soon as possible. It's so important to find the right manager that I'd rather wait then be wrong, but we can only wait so long.

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Tue, Oct 09, 2007, 13:30

League vote has been sent out. It's pretty self-explanatory. If we stay at 20 teams and the GPs question needs the final two managers to decide it's fate, those two will be allowed to vote.

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Tue, Oct 09, 2007, 13:32

Btw, here is the vote sent via email for reference:

1. Contraction
A. No Contraction, Stay at 20 teams
B. Contract to 19
C. Contract to 18

2. Games Played Limits
A. Leave them at 88
B. Increase them to 90 or 92

3. Game Limits (Only Valid if 2B wins but you must vote regardless)
A. Increase to 90
B. Increase to 92

100

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Tue, Oct 09, 2007, 13:42

I think it's safe to assume that if someone votes 2A and doesn't vote at all for 3 then they are voting for 90 not 92.

101

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Tue, Oct 09, 2007, 14:17

I can't wait until the vote is over. To be honest, I don't even care how the vote turns out. I'm fine with whatever, though I do kind of hope that Slizz gets the chance to join us. But whatever the league decides, I am 100% behind it--even if it's a close vote. Full steam ahead.

102

Perm Dude
ID: 5896912
Tue, Oct 09, 2007, 14:21

Ref, for some reason I got two emails from you. The one above is the one to use--I dunno if you have it twice or not, but I thought I'd let you know.

The only think I'm confused about is whether we actually have a second manager that can take over the other team. Obviously no invitations have been send out for that 10th team, but if there is no possibility of someone taking it over quickly I'll probably vote to just get rid of it and see what happens next year.

And I'm assuming that Slizz will take over one team if asked, yes? I wouldn't want to take a team out of his hands if he's ready to come aboard with a sucky team, so I'll probably vote to contract just one team unless another prospective manager is in the wings.

103

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Tue, Oct 09, 2007, 14:31

PD, there are a couple others who have voted to leave it at 20 but has specifically commented that they will support 19 if we can't find a suitable replacement. By suitable, this manager would have to have shown an ability to research and be extremely active at all times. If we can't identify a person who we think meets that criteria by today, then we'd come back to the league tomorrow with that info. At least one manager has said he voted for 19 just because he's assuming we can't find a suitable replacement. If the league votes 20, I'm going to do all I can to find THAT person to help that team and our league. I'll also talk to a few managers in the league for their opinion on the potential replacements individually.

104

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Tue, Oct 09, 2007, 15:27

If you want 19, vote 19. If you want 20, vote 20.

I now believe a 20th manager has been identified should the league want to go in that direction.

105

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Tue, Oct 09, 2007, 15:52

PD, I sent the email from NBA.com. The email shown there is the same as you posted. Is it possible that you registered at nba.com with an email that is different? I noticed Tosh's response game back from a different addy.

Also, if anyone wishes to change their vote, it needs to be done BEFORE the voting has been completed. Also, to try and avoid any confusion, make sure you tell me it is a change of vote so I don't count an extra vote and get all messed up.

106

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Tue, Oct 09, 2007, 16:00

I checked everyone's team and email. RFS had three co-owners all teh smae email. Mike D and Frick both had a co-owner for their alternate emails but they were the same emails now so they are dumped again. So Frick has just gmail and Mike D has just yahoo account listed now. Frick mentioned that he couldn't get to gmail from work so we will prob want to re-add his work email as a co-owner. Mike can you get to Yahoo from work?

IIRC, you have to open an account at nba.com to get in--just like Yahoo or CBS, etc. I'm using the same email on the account as I am in the league so it has never been an issue for me. If anyone else is getting double emails or are having issues perhaps they should look at their nba.com account.

107

rockafellerskank
Dude
ID: 27652109
Tue, Oct 09, 2007, 16:05

Due to my travel schedule, I decided to open an account in EST, MST and PST so i could keep up. ;)

108

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Tue, Oct 09, 2007, 16:31

OT:

Blue Hen mentioned to me that he wishes we had a G20 NHL League as he'd love to play in it. I told him, I didn't know anything about the NHL, but if someone currently in one of our other three leagues ever wanted to start a G20 Hockey, I'd help them organize it and set it up and support it on our G20/24 web site, etc., but it would be theirs to run. It would just need to follow the same basic guidelines and procedures as our other three leagues.

109

Mike D
Leader
ID: 041831612
Tue, Oct 09, 2007, 17:29

Nope, can't access Yahoo (or Comacst) from work, that's why my work e-mail needed to be added as a second one.

111

beastiemiked
ID: 33939916
Tue, Oct 09, 2007, 18:39

Ref, tell dave he needs to sack up and play one of the gurupie leagues already formed.

112

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Tue, Oct 09, 2007, 18:56

He gave me this sob story about our league were too tough for him. Also something about how he didn't watch one NBA game last year, etc.

We have 15 of the 18 votes in. No majority yet.

113

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Tue, Oct 09, 2007, 20:58

I think the votes still need to be casted are from PD, Mike D and Yokel.

114

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Tue, Oct 09, 2007, 23:23

OK, PD still needs to vote but we will not be contracting afterall. The league is voting to keep it at 20. As far as GPs, it's still undecided.

115

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Tue, Oct 09, 2007, 23:56

Slizz has chosen GL's former team. The final manager will be barilko6.

PD has voted.
The final vote on contraction was:

A-20: 11
B-19: 6
C-18: 1

GP Vote:

A-88: 8
B-Add: 10

GP#
A-90: 11
B-92: 7

116

barilko6
ID: 44829307
Wed, Oct 10, 2007, 09:55

Hey there all...

Thanks for the invite to the league.

I have some major renovations to do on my roster, so I will be looking to move some picks for keeper upgrades, OR, move any of my players listed below for extra picks or 2 players.

Here is my roster:

Carlos Arroyo
Sarunas Jasikevicius
Speedy Claxton
Jamal Crawford
Kevin Martin
Juan Dixon
Charlie Bell
Josh Howard
Matt Harpring
Peja Stojakovic
Antonio McDyess
Nazr Mohammed

(Guys in bold are projected keepers)

117

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Wed, Oct 10, 2007, 10:51

There is a glitch with the invite stuff and NBA is working on the issue. In the meantime, Frick, RFS, Mike D, Slizz and barilko6 teams are messed up.

OK, so we have 20 teams now. We're ready to move on. WooHoo! I'll have to start looking at this year's NBA schedule, last year's draft timeline and start working my backwards for keeper and draft dates. Hope to have that figured out as soon as today. I guess in the meantime, I can see if Guru can set up the lottery for us.

118

Species
Dude
ID: 07724916
Wed, Oct 10, 2007, 11:14

Welcome, Slizz and barilko6!

I'm looking forward to a fun year (despite my team being screwed).

119

Guru
ID: 330592710
Wed, Oct 10, 2007, 11:41

Ref asked me to provide a brief recap of the lottery process.

It is a direct replication of the NBA lottery process. Each team is assigned a probability of selection for a single pick. This year, the probabilities are as follows, expressed as chances per 1000:
T7. RSF 6
T7. Coyotes 6
T9. Guru 11.5
T9. RFS 11.5
11. Peter N 18
T12. Tosh 28
T12. Yokel 28
14. Twarpy 44
15. GO 59
16. PD 81
17. PP 109
18. Frick 148
19. barilko6 200
20. Slizz 250

So, for example, Slizz has a 250/1000 chance of being selected for the 1st pick. RSF and Coyote chances are only 6/1000.

For the NBA, they use a bin of 14 ping pong balls, numbered 1-14. Four balls are chosen at random. The numbers on the four balls are then used to determine which team is awarded the first pick.

This works because there are exactly 1001 different possible combinations of 4 balls chosen from a sample of 14. One of these combinations is assigned to be a "do over"; each of the other 1000 combinations is mapped to one of the teams. 250 of these combinations are mapped to Slizz, 200 to barilko6, ..., and 6 each to RSF and CC.

The lookup table for this draft is in this spreadsheet:
http://rotoguru1.com/hoop/G20-Oct07-14x4_balls.xls

After the top pick has been awarded, the process is repeated for the 2nd and 3rd pick. If one of the teams already selected is drawn, then the process is repeated until a unique team is selected.

After the top three picks are selected this way, the rest of the draft proceeds in reverse order. So, if Slizz is not selected for any of the first 3 picks, then he gets the 4th pick.

The lottery process applies only to the first round of the draft.

To simulate the drawing of four ping pong balls, a web-based random number generator is used. The Commissioner initiates each draw, and the results are simultaneously emailed to me and to anyone else that the commish specifies. The results will be posted here.

For a more general discussion of the lottery process and mechanics, see this thread.

120

Guru
ID: 330592710
Wed, Oct 10, 2007, 11:47

A few caveats about this year's lottery:

There are three ties in last year's finish. The lottery process handles this by giving each of the tied teams the average number of chances for the pair.

In a normal lottery, the 7th place team would get 5 chances, and the 8th place would get 7. Since they are tied this year, each gets 6.

This creates an anomaly for the two teams tied for 9th, since each is entitled to 11.5 chances. I've worked up a means to handled that fractional split, which uses the 5th ping pong ball to break that tie if one specific pattern is drawn. (It's probably not worth discussing further here - just trust me.)

In the event that none of the tied teams is selected in the lottery, I don't recall what the draft order of those teams would be, either in the first round, or in subsequent rounds. Perhaps Ref can clarify.

121

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Wed, Oct 10, 2007, 11:52

I had forgotten until Guru just emailed. It's been awhile since this has occurred.

Here is what we do:

I will dice roll every tie. The winner gets to pick first every round. The loser would get any extra balls in the lottery to break the tie. I'll run them right now and post the results...

122

Guru
ID: 330592710
Wed, Oct 10, 2007, 12:06

In that case, I'll have to revise the spreadsheet after the dice rolls are done.

123

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Wed, Oct 10, 2007, 12:30

I couldn't find the sit eI used ot use for dice rolls, so will be using a coin flip from random.org.

The first name listed will be heads and the second one will have tails.

T7. RSF 6
T7. Coyotes 6

Coin flip is: Tails. Coyotes picks before RSF in every round

T9. Guru 11.5
T9. RFS 11.5

Coin Flip is: Tails. RFS Picks higher. Guru gets the extra ball.

T12. Tosh 28
T12. Yokel 28

Coin Flip is: Heads. Tosh picks higher.

Just a note that Twarpy is inelligible to win a lottery position due to penalties from his inactivity. If his name comes up, it will be ignored and we will repick--so everyone's odds are actually better this year. Twarpy will be picking at the end of the first round (20th) and at the end of the lottery-eligible managers the rest of the draft (14th).

124

Guru
ID: 330592710
Wed, Oct 10, 2007, 12:37

Spreadsheet has been updated.

125

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Wed, Oct 10, 2007, 12:46

OK the following posts will have our lottery winners. I will ask Guru or Tosh to verify as they are getting the results as well.

126

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Wed, Oct 10, 2007, 12:46

The Lottery winner is:

Frick!

127

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Wed, Oct 10, 2007, 12:50

2nd ball comes up:

Frick

so we will draw again...

3rd ball (2nd Pick) comes up...

Pistol Pete!

128

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Wed, Oct 10, 2007, 12:51

4th ball (3rd pick):

PD!

129

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Wed, Oct 10, 2007, 12:53

WOW! Two years in a row fo Frick while the two worst teams and most amount of chances are both shut out.

130

Species
Dude
ID: 07724916
Wed, Oct 10, 2007, 12:59

What the Frick?!?

That's brutal for those 2 new teams. Ouch.

131

Guru
ID: 330592710
Wed, Oct 10, 2007, 12:59

Results confirmed

132

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Wed, Oct 10, 2007, 13:14

So here is the first round order base order (trades not included for this purpose):

1. Frick
2. Pistol Pete
3. PD
4. Slizz
5. barilko6
6. GO
7. Tosh
8. Yokel
9. Peter N
10. RFS
11. Guru
12. Coyotes
13. RSF
14. KF
15. Ref
16. Mike D
17. bj21
18. Species
19. bmd
20. Twarpy

Subsequent Rounds base order:

1. Slizz
2. barilko6
3. Frick
4. Pistol Pete
5. PD
6. GO
7. Tosh
8. Yokel
9. Peter N
10. RFS
11. Guru
12. Coyotes
13. RSF
14. Twarpy
15. KF
16. Ref
17. Mike D
18. bj21
19. Species
20. bmd

Trades Involving 2007 Draft Picks:

2-7 GO receives bj21s 4th round pick for his 6th rounder (Nachbar/Parker deal)
2-27 Slizz gets Ref's 3rd rounder. Ref gets Slizz's 5th rounder (Delonte West/James Posey)
2-28 Peter N gets Ref's 1st Rounder. Ref gets Peter N's 3rd rounder (Tinsley/Devin Brown)
3-10 Tosh receives BJ21's 1st and 3rd round picks for his 3rd and 5th rounders (Gooden)
3-18 GO receives PD's 2nd rounder for his 5th rounder (Alston)

133

coldwater coyotes
ID: 31943914
Wed, Oct 10, 2007, 13:17

Anybody interested in Andre Miller? He comes with 10 assists per game.

134

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Wed, Oct 10, 2007, 13:21

A Huge Thanks to Guru for setting this lottery up for us!

Looking at last year and this year's NBA scedule shows it's just one day different. Our darft took 6 days from when it was timed. Last year the time started on a Sunday afternoon and we breezed through it.

I think barilko6 is the only one here who hasn't had a draft with us before. We have a cumulative draft clock so every pick counts toward that overall time as well as a per pick clock of three hours. More on that later.

Looking at our timeline, if we do it similar to last year, our keepers will be do next week some time and the draft will start right after that. More precise dates will be forthcoming.

135

rockafellerskank
Dude
ID: 27652109
Wed, Oct 10, 2007, 13:24

My initial blush.... I want to be as young as possible, so the players marked with an "X" are 29 or 30 and are available for a younger player and/or draft pick(s). This isn't a fire sale.

Keepers:
Jackson, Stephen - "X"
Prince, Tayshaun
O'Neal, Jermaine - "X"
Walton, Luke
Marbury, Stephon - "X"
Okafor, Emeka

Givers:
Kapono, Jason
Turkoglu, Hidayet
Garcia, Francisco
Stackhouse, Jerry
Ridnour, Luke
Kinsey, Tarence

136

rockafellerskank
Dude
ID: 27652109
Wed, Oct 10, 2007, 13:26

Is my team involved in any trades from previous years where i gained/lost draft picks in 2007 or 2008?

137

barilko6
ID: 44829307
Wed, Oct 10, 2007, 13:30

Still looking to pick up a 5th and 6th keeper here.

Would be willing to move picks for solid, preferably younger, keeper options.

I don't have email addresses for everyone, so you will have to come onto my home court for all dealings...haha

138

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Wed, Oct 10, 2007, 13:35

RFS, the traded picks in 132 is all I have so no you don't have any traded draft picks.

I might be forced to trade Center Troy Murphy. Should be huge in the Pacers new offensive-minded scheme.

barilko6 (and the others), still working on the issue on the site. If we don't have it figured out soon, I will email you and Slizz the emails of everyone in the league (might do it anyway). In the meantime, everyone's rosters are listed in post 16.

139

barilko6
ID: 44829307
Wed, Oct 10, 2007, 13:37

RFS...shoot me an email...

140

rockafellerskank
Dude
ID: 27652109
Wed, Oct 10, 2007, 13:48

barilko6 - e-mail sent.

Because I am so mobile these days, I'm willing to give my cell# to anyone who wants to discuss trades via text messages. That's really the best way to reach me. If you want the digits, send me an e-mail.

141

Frick
Donor
ID: 3410101718
Wed, Oct 10, 2007, 14:15

Woohoo! I can't wait to draft player X!

Last year I felt any of about 5 different guys could have gone #1. This year, I the decision should be a bit easier!

142

RecycledSpinalFluid
Dude
ID: 204401122
Wed, Oct 10, 2007, 14:20

Group A:
Ray Allen
Allen Iverson
Kevin Garnett
Yao Ming

Group B:
Tony Allen
Eddie Curry
Boris Diaw
Luther Head
Jamaal Magloire
Kenyon Martin

Damn-I-Wish-You-Would-Get-a-Starters-Job:
Steve Blake
Chris Duhon

Gotta figure out who in Group B plays alongside my 4 HOFers in Group A. Leaning Curry and Diaw but a Magloire starting along side JKidd intrigues me. Diaw has dropped 10 pounds coming into camp (as to last year when he came in as a fat ass). Curry is good for 20/7. Just don't know yet.

143

Species
Dude
ID: 07724916
Wed, Oct 10, 2007, 14:21

I'd like rfs's team name to show in lower case letters on the site. I know that sounds stupid but it is so easy to mix up RSF and rfs as it is!

144

RecycledSpinalFluid
Dude
ID: 204401122
Wed, Oct 10, 2007, 14:23

Just as long as I get both the 10th and 13th picks, I'm ok with that Species.

145

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Wed, Oct 10, 2007, 14:26

Species, I agree-esp. with the way I type. I think his team name was Skank or something similar before the mishap on the site last night. Maybe even RSFluid and RFSkank or something more defining.

146

RecycledSpinalFluid
Dude
ID: 204401122
Wed, Oct 10, 2007, 14:29

I just changed mine to my full name for you.

148

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Wed, Oct 10, 2007, 14:44

rfs--the skank one--asked me a question that I found the answer to that is appropriate to post.

Q. When will a player gain eligibility at a certain position?
A. Players will gain position eligibility after starting 10 games at that position this season in a standard league. If you are in a private league, your commissioner can adjust these rules.

We use 10.

149

Guru
ID: 330592710
Wed, Oct 10, 2007, 15:50

Definite keepers:
Iguodala
McGrady
Al Jefferson
Boozer

On the bubble:
Nocioni
Jameer Nelson
Tyrus Thomas

Probably Available (pending further review):
Ryan Gomes
Kendrick Perkins
Derek Fisher
Mike James
Francisco Elson

150

Frick
Donor
ID: 3410101718
Wed, Oct 10, 2007, 16:00

Keepers
Rashard Lewis
Ben Gordon
Andris Biedrins

Keeping 3 of the 4
Shane Battier
Jarrett Jack
Rudy Gay
Sean May

Probably Gone
Etan Thomas
Shaquille O'Neal
Renaldo Balkman
Fabricio Oberto
Marcus Banks

151

barilko6
ID: 109391014
Wed, Oct 10, 2007, 16:39

Here is my roster:

Carlos Arroyo
Sarunas Jasikevicius
Speedy Claxton
Jamal Crawford
Kevin Martin
Juan Dixon
Charlie Bell
Josh Howard
Matt Harpring
Peja Stojakovic
Antonio McDyess
Nazr Mohammed

(Guys in bold are projected keepers)

Guys sorry I haven't had a chance to reply to all of the emails just yet, I promise I will in the next little while, been in meetings here at work.

152

RecycledSpinalFluid
Dude
ID: 204401122
Wed, Oct 10, 2007, 16:49

I dont know if it was intentional or not, but I got a big chuckle out of post 151...

"(Guys in bold are projected keepers)"...and no one was bolded.

:)

153

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Wed, Oct 10, 2007, 17:01

LOL!

OK, folks. NBA's UFC (ultimate fantasy commissioner) hasn't responded to my last couple of emails but it's obvious they have been working on things. They took my advice and added a remove invite button so once a person is invited they don't keep getting invited (which led to this mishap I'm guessing). They have also backed out Mike D's and rfs' team.

I'm hesitant to do much w/o instruction, but since those are the two teams who had been unfortunately "invaded" by other managers who accepted invites, it could be that they simply fixed it w/o notice.

Regardless, we will be doing one invite at a time. This wasn't an issue last year so not sure what they changed this year.

154

barilko6
ID: 44829307
Wed, Oct 10, 2007, 17:19

Haha....Yeah, I want to get rid of all my scrubs!!!

No, I copied and pasted, and of course the HTML didn't come with it.

Right now the only guys I am really attached to are Kevin Martin and Josh Howard, but being new to the team, of course nobody has that dreaded sentimental value to them.

155

KnicksFan
Sustainer
ID: 030815418
Thu, Oct 11, 2007, 12:11

I'm probably keeping these fellas:

Leandro Barbosa - PHX [G]
Dwight Howard - ORL [C]
Joe Johnson - ATL [G]
David West - NOH [F]
Nick Collison - SEA [C]
Mike Dunleavy - IND [G, F]

And saying so long to these guys:

Smush Parker - MIA [G]
Nate Robinson - NYK [G]
John Salmons - SAC [G, F]
Mickael Pietrus - GSW [G, F]
Walter Herrmann - CHA [F]
Zaza Pachulia - ATL [C]

156

beastiemiked
ID: 329531111
Thu, Oct 11, 2007, 13:55

I've got at least 1 guy I need to trade as I have too many keepers. I get back to the states tomorrow so I'll be ready to talke then.

157

rockafellerskank
Dude
ID: 27652109
Fri, Oct 12, 2007, 00:46

Since Species is a sissy, besides the draft picks in the Jo for JR trade, Species owes skank a certain bonus = to $30 at "babes cabaret"

158

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Fri, Oct 12, 2007, 00:52

rfs, the draft picks aren't listed. You're going to have to post them here. There is also a msg board on the site. Sure wish they'd show up in the actual trade.

159

rockafellerskank
Dude
ID: 27652109
Fri, Oct 12, 2007, 01:06

Comments from Species:
PLUS rfs receives Species 2007 4th round pick for rfs' 2007 5th round
pick.

160

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Fri, Oct 12, 2007, 01:09

Yeah, you might see that, but I don't see that on the trade details. All I see are the players involved.

164

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Fri, Oct 12, 2007, 10:05

We're going to use the same timeline as we did last year as far as Keeper/Draft Dates.

Keepers will be due no later than Thursday, Oct. 18th at 3:00 ET/Noon PT.

Draft will officially begin on Sunday, Oct. 21 at 3:00 ET/Noon PT.

This gets us by the very slow weekend and after the football has started. The later times also help the west coasters who kind of get hosed in the Draft Clock. This also alows us to start as late as possible so we have more info on players--esp. the types of fringe players we will be using. We typiclaly get a round per day in and that's the pace we must keep.

165

Species
Dude
ID: 07724916
Fri, Oct 12, 2007, 12:19

I confirm the draft pick swap.....is "Babe's Cabaret" that new steakhouse in town??

Nice to have rfs in the league though....his use of the term "sissy" brings forth a new era of cutting edge smack talk.........NOT.

I want to know how in the hell I finished ahead of teams with such stacked keepers as RSF and Mike D! They're loaded!

166

Great One
Sustainer
ID: 053272014
Fri, Oct 12, 2007, 12:32

Species, its because you are clearly more talented those two - especially, Mike D! :)

Now I was 6th from the bottom, but thats cause I am only better looking and not as talented.

167

RecycledSpinalFluid
Dude
ID: 204401122
Fri, Oct 12, 2007, 12:55

JO is becoming the league whore.

168

RecycledSpinalFluid
Dude
ID: 204401122
Fri, Oct 12, 2007, 13:04

I think last years strat was called "Pulling a Twarpy", as in "Oden (insert LeBron here for Twarp) is in the draft, so i better see how low I can finish to get the first pick despite having an uber-talented team".

169

Great One
Sustainer
ID: 053272014
Fri, Oct 12, 2007, 13:27

Thats why Oden is out for the season - all the negative karma from teams doing that. Or at least in reality, thats why the Celtics didn't get the pick. But then the Celtics were kind of happy they didn't get him afterall.

I give up.

170

barilko6
ID: 479469
Fri, Oct 12, 2007, 13:44

Hey...since they are still working on getting Slizz and I onto the NBA website, can we get all of the trades posted here on this sit so we can see them too?

171

Species
Dude
ID: 07724916
Fri, Oct 12, 2007, 13:52

The JO one is easy: Jermaine O'Neal + rfs 5th for Jason Richardson and my 4th

....RSF - what's that, sloppy fourths for me on JO? Ewwwwwwww.

172

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Fri, Oct 12, 2007, 14:00

NBA has finally deleted teh accounts for CCR and GL, so just waiting for them to add the other two usernames to the accounts as main owners. Hopefully they are programming a way for us to do it automatically too. Once that is done, we will then co-own Frick's and Mike D's work email. When that's done, remember to use those emails in the daytime when trying to get a hold of them.

As I understand it, Mike D can read these boards during the day but can't post. In the past Guru has given a successful workaround for that--esp. for the draft.

No matter how or what we do on the site as far as drafting, the offical draft will be made and timed in our draft thread in the basketball leagues forum. We will likely go ahead and use their software as well to help facilitate adding players. I think that auto-emails the next person. I know we do a lot better emailing three so will have to go back and see how we handled that last year.

Preseason trades (defined as before we open our season up by turning waivers on not NBA season) are approved by commishs. However, I'd prefer pre-draft trades that aren't in any hurry to be automated through the site anyhow. Basically the reasoning is that there are trades during the draft or right before the keeper deadline where we can approve them quickly. Trades take 7 protests to veto.

Only trade on the board is Jermaine O'Neal + 5th for Baron Davis + 4th.

With the running Pacers this year, I expect their stats to increase across the board. Don't know if they will win anymore though. I think JO will be more of a threat this year--esp. with his ever-present blocks.

173

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Fri, Oct 12, 2007, 14:02

I think trades for draft picks on the site should probably posted on the league msg board and probably here too just so no one protests a trade because they don't see the picks involved. Obviously the commishs need to document the pick exchanges as well.

174

Great One
Sustainer
ID: 053272014
Fri, Oct 12, 2007, 14:07

Mike can email me his picks if he wants (during business hours). Not like I have anything better to do!

175

Great One
Sustainer
ID: 053272014
Fri, Oct 12, 2007, 14:13

My 3.06 pick is for sale for anyones leftover talent. Have a guy you are throwing back and aren't getting anything in return? Its all yours. I really need a PG specifically. Send me a list of guys you would do for that pick and I'll let you know if I fancy any of them.

I'd also look at moving LaMarcus Aldridge for a high level PG or for a PG+C combo. Get in on this great young shooting, shot-blocking, Center eligible stud!

176

Species
Dude
ID: 07724916
Fri, Oct 12, 2007, 14:14

Ref #172: Only trade on the board is Jermaine O'Neal + 5th for Baron Davis + 4th.

Wrong Warrior (or now ex-Warrior). rfs acquired Jason Richardson.

177

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Fri, Oct 12, 2007, 14:35

My bad.

178

RecycledSpinalFluid
Dude
ID: 204401122
Fri, Oct 12, 2007, 15:14

Did this menage a trade just happen?

Perm Dude sends Caron Butler to blackjackis21
coldwater coyotes sends Andre Miller to Perm Dude
blackjackis21 sends Rasheed Wallace to coldwater coyotes
blackjackis21 sends Richard Jefferson to Perm Dude

179

Perm Dude
ID: 1951116
Fri, Oct 12, 2007, 15:18

I accepted the trade, but dunno if the other two did. Our first three-way?

180

blackjackis21
Dude
ID: 034837521
Fri, Oct 12, 2007, 15:27

Hm - I proposed it, so I'm good. coldwater coyotes was fine with the idea a few days ago, so maybe it did go through. I never rec'd an e-mail - maybe I need to check my settings.

181

coldwater coyotes
ID: 544382119
Fri, Oct 12, 2007, 15:43

fine with me

182

Frick
Donor
ID: 3410101718
Fri, Oct 12, 2007, 15:47

Darn, I hoped to be part of the first multi team trade. Seems like a decent trade all around.

Anyone interested in Etan Thomas?
Doctor: Wizards' Thomas may return

Have there been any other players who came back from open heart surgery? I know Zo lost a kidney, but this seems just a bit more serious.

183

barilko6
ID: 549171214
Fri, Oct 12, 2007, 16:19

Dang...I think I am missing out on all this trade action by not being able to log onto the site!

184

Species
Dude
ID: 07724916
Fri, Oct 12, 2007, 17:02

Somebody get this man on the website so he can get in on the action! LOL

185

Mike D
Leader
ID: 041831612
Fri, Oct 12, 2007, 17:57

barilko, e-mail works bro.

Frick, interest in a guy that had open heart surgery?

186

Tosh
Leader
ID: 057721710
Fri, Oct 12, 2007, 22:31

I sent barilko6 log-in information. Once he gets in, I'll send the information to Slizz.

I'm gonna' do this one manager at a time to avoid the previous issues.

187

barilko6
ID: 5431697
Fri, Oct 12, 2007, 22:59

Re: 185

I would have hoped it did too, but I have only gotten replies from about half the managers I sent emails to.

I am in now, and good to go!!!

188

Frick
ID: 21041187
Sat, Oct 13, 2007, 00:48

Re: 185

Sarcasm doesn't come across the internet very well. I wasn't aware that Thomas was having/had open heart surgery until I saw that article. I put the article link there so no one that I was trying to scam them. I hope he gets well, he put decent fantasy numbers when he played, but he spent the majority of last year on the IR with an ab strain.

If anyone is interested in Sean May, Rudy Gay or Jarret Jack, or a combination of the two for one player, let's talk.

189

Mike D
Leader
ID: 041831612
Sat, Oct 13, 2007, 07:37

You're right Frick. Sometimes I even forget when I'm trying to be sarcastic. ;)

On another note, it really seems like most teams have too many keepers to squeeze into 6 spots. Might we ever expand that??

190

Mike D
Leader
ID: 041831612
Sat, Oct 13, 2007, 08:05

8 would make it real interesting.

191

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Sat, Oct 13, 2007, 11:18

All of our managers are on the site now. What a pain.

It's funny that the last two years I've made a big play to try and obtain Troy Murphy pre-keepers but couldn't get it done. Finally I was able to trade for him during the season. Now I have 7 solid keepers and likely can't keep him.

Murphy has F/C elig. Can shoot the 3 and run the floor. Has nice %s and can even get a few assists. I am going to keep Chandler so already have a C. Pacers are going to push the ball so Murphy's numbers should even be better this year.

192

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Sat, Oct 13, 2007, 11:38

There are 4 or 5 managers who are not showing their email on the site--barilko6, GO, Frick and KF. Not sure if that is intentional or not, but you can still email them by going to the email league link and clicking on their name and emialing them straight from the site.

193

Mike D
Leader
ID: 041831612
Sat, Oct 13, 2007, 12:17

Well Ref I like Murphy too but am overflowing with keepers myself (constant theme).

194

barilko6
ID: 44829307
Sat, Oct 13, 2007, 14:41

I am on the site now with my email. Don't know why it wasn't showing, but it is now.

195

Frick
Donor
ID: 3410101718
Sat, Oct 13, 2007, 15:23

When I log into the NBA site I have the option to click RFS's team or Frick's team. If I click on either one I get the register for a league screen.

What do I need to do?

While I have 7 fairly legit keepers, and could see keeping an 8th, I would be against setting keepers at 8.

196

barilko6
ID: 44829307
Sat, Oct 13, 2007, 15:27

As someone who only has 4 keepers, I agree!!! Plus, if you keep 8 with such a small roster, where is the fun in the drafting!!!

197

Mike D
Leader
ID: 041831612
Sat, Oct 13, 2007, 15:28

I know I know.....that's why I hate keeper leagues. But since this is one, 6 makes it hard to groom the young player and still be competitive. Sometimes.

198

Tosh
Leader
ID: 057721710
Sat, Oct 13, 2007, 15:43

Frick (195) - I'm not exactly following what you are saying. Everything looks perfect from the Commish end of things.

Please email me, and I'll work on it.

199

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Sat, Oct 13, 2007, 15:54

We had 9 Keeps the first year and the league voted overwhelmingly to cut it to 6. That 2nd year there were a hanful of haves and the rest were have-nots.

I think things seem logical in theory but it doesn't always turn out how we vision it.

If we had more keepers, there would be less players offered for trade by the haves while the need for those would grow from the have-nots. Further, the better teams would be better able to rest on their laurels while the worse teams might feel hopeless. There is a fine line there.

In G24 football, we went from 9 to 8 this year and added IDPs and DHs and we have more parity now than ever.

The Contraction idea was great in theory. It wiped out two teams and created more players in the pool. But the more I thought about it, the more it didn't jive as there would be plenty of nice players in the dispersal draft and ultimately every team would have gotten better. The 19 made a lot more sense with the dispersal draft. But with two managers who really wanted these two teams and are prepared to work their butts off on them, I felt that I should vote to keep 20 and give these guys a chance to prove it. A majority agreed.

I think this year will be tougher than ever as the WW will be so thin with all the active managers clammoring for the nuggets. This should help trading as well as the fringe players bouncing around a little.

200

Mike D
Leader
ID: 041831612
Sat, Oct 13, 2007, 16:02

Not trying to start trouble, I was mostly venting. It does seem like a lot of teams are struggling with the "too many keepers" thing and they keep posting guys they have available but no one has room.

"If we had more keepers, there would be less players offered for trade by the haves while the need for those would grow from the have-nots. Further, the better teams would be better able to rest on their laurels while the worse teams might feel hopeless. There is a fine line there."

I kind of disagree. With 7 or 8 keepers I'd be much more active than I am. GO pumped Aldridge, I'd love to deal for him, as an example. I ain't goin' 2 for 1 though, and already have 7 keepers. Kind of in a bind.....again, just an example.

201

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Sat, Oct 13, 2007, 16:32

Mike D. no trouble at all. Just stated that as a history for those who haven't been here since the beginning. As always, if the league wants change then we will change. My team is better now, so adding Keeps would actually help my team. Just trying to think on the "league" level.

202

rockafellerskank
Dude
ID: 27652109
Sat, Oct 13, 2007, 18:08

Those poor teams (with 4,5 keepers) aren't going to offer much to teams with keepers for 7,8,9 cause they will get a shot at them for free in the supplemental draft. Am I stating the obvious? Is there ever much pre-draft trading in any of the G20/24 leagues? Especially of the nature 2 for 1, etc...

203

beastiemiked
ID: 36428317
Sat, Oct 13, 2007, 18:13

Like I said I'd do a better breakdown once I got back into town.

I've got 7 legit keepers. All are ranked in the top 80 of Yahoo's big board, Yahoo's top 100

2. Kobe Bryant
16. Josh Smith
17. Chris Bosh
46. Antawn Jamison
53. Lamar Odom
78. TJ Ford
79. Rajon Rondo

Not ranked - Grant Hill - A step down from the other guys but still should put up good numbers for the Suns. Not looking for nearly as much for him.

The 1st 3 guys are going to be very hard to pry away. Not exactly that attached to the next 4 though I know they deserve more than a shitty draft pick. Looking for a 2 for 1 or some sort of draft pick(s) swap.

204

Great One
ID: 201155199
Sat, Oct 13, 2007, 19:00

No idea how to add my email or make it available.

205

Perm Dude
ID: 339281310
Sat, Oct 13, 2007, 21:43

The Curry/Miller trade includes a trade of draft picks: RSF's 3rd rounder for PD's 4th rounder.

206

RecycledSpinalFluid
Dude
ID: 204401122
Sat, Oct 13, 2007, 22:04

Yep.

Perm Dude Receives Eddy Curry & RSF's 3rd Rounder
RecycledSpinalFluid Receives Andre Miller & PD's 4th Rounder

207

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Sun, Oct 14, 2007, 02:26

RE: 202

skank, there are actually a LOT of pre-keepers trading. Would you rather have say 4 Keepers and two scrubs and use your first rounder on a guy or would you rather get rid of the scrubs who should'nt be kept for perhaps a lower pick and use that first to get another top player? I've traded or tried to trade each year here to get more keepers...until this year.

208

RecycledSpinalFluid
Dude
ID: 204401122
Sun, Oct 14, 2007, 15:55

Nice. One protest, so far. You know its not a good trade unless someone is bitching.

209

Mike D
Leader
ID: 041831612
Sun, Oct 14, 2007, 16:13

Must be a misunderstanding between protesting and "feeling like PD got r*ped." (lmao)

Ed-dy Cu-rry! Ed-dy Cu-rry!

210

Tosh
Leader
ID: 057721710
Sun, Oct 14, 2007, 16:48

I was the lone protester.

I have no problem with the trade. I was just checking to see what happened if I did protest.

Ed-dy! Ed-dy!

211

Frick
Donor
ID: 3410101718
Sun, Oct 14, 2007, 21:28

I've got access to my team now! After I log-in I still have the choice of 3 teams:

Frick
RFS
Frick

So, I'm not sure what is going on there, but I can see my team again.

Just as an FYI, the #1 spot is not available short of two young top 25 players. Sorry, last year I would have traded down, this year. I kinda feel like Bill Polian looking at Peyton Manning being on the board.

212

Frick
Donor
ID: 3410101718
Sun, Oct 14, 2007, 21:44

barilko6, I canceled the trade offer I sent you. I didn't realize that May was out for the year with microfracture surgery.

It's nice to see that my team of walking zombies is dropping body parts at the same rate as last year.

213

RecycledSpinalFluid
Dude
ID: 204401122
Sun, Oct 14, 2007, 22:17

I protest that the protest wasn't a protest.

214

Tosh
Leader
ID: 057721710
Sun, Oct 14, 2007, 22:24

I'm a big fan of testing. You might even say I'm pro testing. So imagine the rush I feel when I get to test the protesting system. You're not anti testing, are you?

216

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Mon, Oct 15, 2007, 11:52

LOL Tosh!!!

Since this is the preseason and technicaly the protests are irrellevant, I, too, protested to see what would happen. I had no idea who the other protester was--just wanted to see what happened. I'll get a Keeper thread up today. Remember that you will be able to change your keepers up until the deadline. I need to go look at the site to refresh my memory on how it handles Keepers.

217

Great One
Sustainer
ID: 053272014
Mon, Oct 15, 2007, 11:59

Just a suggestion, but in the keeper thread, it will only benefit the trading process if everyone use's the following format... I know I'm on the hunt to trade a pick for someone's leftovers, and if I don't know who yours are, then I am skipping you and moving on.

Keepers
Player A
Player B

Leftovers
Player C
Player D

218

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Mon, Oct 15, 2007, 12:58

Right, GO, We will have keepers listed and our drops listed.

Looking on the NBA site to refresh my memory. Seems as though Keepers will be processed at midnight ET. So my guess is that we will have to push Keeps back to 11:59 pm ET on Thursday. (Or we can prob do them manually).

As for the draft, last year it let us start when we wanted to I think. This year there are only so many spots left. For now I have set it at 2:30 pm ET on Friday just so the draft room opens. It's set now for 24 hr limit. We can change that time later. We may open the draft room up early untimed anyhow. Still planning on starting the clock on Sunday afternoon.

219

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Mon, Oct 15, 2007, 13:15

Looks like we can process Keepers manually. The more I look around the more I find things. So I guess we will make it 3:00 ET on Thursday afterall and the site will run it automatically at midnight if we can't be there to hit it manually.

While looking at this process, NBA has our players and what round they were drafted in (1-6 rounds simply means there were a keeper). Round 7 is round one of the supplemental draft on up to Round 12 and of course the undrafteds.

Here is my team for instance:

Can't Beat the Refs

KEEPERS NAME ROUND DRAFTED KEEP
Wilks, Mike G SEA Undrafted
Williams, Jason G MIA 7
Johnson, Amir F DET Undrafted
Williams, Justin F SAC Undrafted
Granger, Danny UTL IND 1
Hinrich, Kirk UTL CHI 4
Humphries, Kris UTL TOR Undrafted
Chandler, Tyson B NOH 3
Murphy, Troy B IND 3
Nowitzki, Dirk B DAL 2
Roy, Brandon B POR 7
Tinsley, Jamaal B IND 8

220

blackjackis21
Dude
ID: 034837521
Mon, Oct 15, 2007, 13:32

A heads-up: I'm going to be in London Oct. 25 to Nov. 3. I'll have web access and will leave queues, but if I'm slow on the draw for e-mail, you'll know why.

221

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Mon, Oct 15, 2007, 14:25

bj21, NBA.com will email the league for us after each pick. I thought it was the next manager but as I'm reading it, sounds like it emails the league. Therefore, we won't need to send out our own emails--but each manager needs to know where he picks.

222

barilko6
ID: 22942159
Mon, Oct 15, 2007, 17:03

The Barilko/RecycledSpinalFluid trade includes picks:

Barilko Gives: Peja Stojakovic, 3rd Round pick
RSF gives: Boris Diaw, 2nd Round pick

223

RecycledSpinalFluid
Dude
ID: 204401122
Mon, Oct 15, 2007, 17:15

Yep. What he said.

225

barilko6
ID: 22942159
Mon, Oct 15, 2007, 17:31

Alright all...I still only have 5 keepers, but now have an extra second round pick to play with.

I am looking for someone younger, position not important.

226

blackjackis21
Dude
ID: 034837521
Mon, Oct 15, 2007, 19:55

On a similar note, I'm still hoping to move Drew (Dwight) Gooden. Something like a third round pick for Drew and my 5.18 would do it.

227

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Tue, Oct 16, 2007, 01:12

We don't know why people are getting multiple emails when sent via NBA site. I got 2 emails, Tosh got 4 and rfs got 8!!!

228

barilko6
ID: 44829307
Tue, Oct 16, 2007, 11:47

I think I am pretty close to making a final deal, so I can post my keepers soon.

229

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Tue, Oct 16, 2007, 21:29

Our site has a default trade deadline of March 23rd. That's the same weekend as last year, so we're going to leave it. For comparison the last trade deadline in Yahoo is March 13th. The Sunday makes more sense to me anyhow.

230

Perm Dude
ID: 47918167
Wed, Oct 17, 2007, 00:26

The Tosh/PD trade includes a swap of first round picks: 1.03 and 1.17.

So the trade is Alston & 1.03 for Billups & 1.17.

231

Tosh
Leader
ID: 057721710
Wed, Oct 17, 2007, 00:45

agreed

233

RecycledSpinalFluid
Dude
ID: 204401122
Wed, Oct 17, 2007, 02:29

Hmm...multi-team trades don't allow you to send additional text?

234

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Wed, Oct 17, 2007, 11:41

RSF, you can always post the deal here with picks or whatever text. Or email the managers individually. No other site we use (well CBS) allows a multi-team trade. We had a 3-way deal in football a few years back and we had to do it manually.

235

RecycledSpinalFluid
Dude
ID: 204401122
Wed, Oct 17, 2007, 12:12

Yeah, I had sent an email previously to outline it. Just wanted to make sure I didn't screw something up.

236

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Wed, Oct 17, 2007, 13:38

Trade:

Pistol Pete gets Troy Murphy and Ref's 4th rounder

Ref gets PP's 2nd round pick.

237

Pistol Pete
ID: 5912221
Wed, Oct 17, 2007, 15:17

agreed

239

Frick
Donor
ID: 3410101718
Wed, Oct 17, 2007, 16:18

What time does the draft start? I think I know who I'm going to take, but I want to do more research just in case. ;)

240

barilko6
ID: 44829307
Wed, Oct 17, 2007, 16:19

Frick, I might not drop Nazr Mohammed, I might keep him still, so don't count on him being 100% available.

241

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Wed, Oct 17, 2007, 16:23

Apparently the site won't allow us to do manual trades. So for now, we have turned off the review time on trades and turned on Commish approval. That's the way it works anyhow before waivers are turned on. If we didn't do it this way, trades would be processed after the keeper deadline. Since we're going to hit the Keepers process button manually anyhow after 3:00, there is no chance that any agreed to trades on the site will be missed if accepted before the deadline.

242

Frick
Donor
ID: 3410101718
Wed, Oct 17, 2007, 16:23

Gah, I was counting on him or Ruben Boumtje Boumtje being available. Wait, Ruben Boumtje Boumtje is available! Or do I want his brother?

243

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Wed, Oct 17, 2007, 16:28

Frick, draft clock will start Sunday at 3:00 ET--though we'll likely open the draft room before then untimed.

244

rockafellerskank
Dude
ID: 27652109
Wed, Oct 17, 2007, 16:39

Is the prize entry $15 again this year? I assume we send to guru? is Pay Pal Ok?

245

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Wed, Oct 17, 2007, 18:10

Just saw that Jason Williams has been moved up into the top 100 players as the starting PG in Miami. He's even rated above Troy Murphy on the site I just saw. He can be had for cheap.

246

Species
Dude
ID: 07724916
Wed, Oct 17, 2007, 18:16

He's nothing compared to Larry Hughes and Chris Wilcox. Still available, but going fast! lol

247

RecycledSpinalFluid
Dude
ID: 204401122
Wed, Oct 17, 2007, 18:41

I tried to move Wilcox for ya Species. Damn that Peja!

248

beastiemiked
ID: 65112917
Wed, Oct 17, 2007, 18:51

Trade:
bmd sends Rajon Rondo and his 4.20 to GO for his 2.06.

250

Great One
ID: 201155199
Wed, Oct 17, 2007, 18:53

Confirmed.

252

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Wed, Oct 17, 2007, 19:13

The site was supposed to attach the file of the plaque. Oh well.

Here is the plaque.

253

Slizz
ID: 53991319
Wed, Oct 17, 2007, 19:21

Worlds Worst Tattoo...looks like Ray Charles made it...

Mike Bibby's Tattoo

254

Mike D
Leader
ID: 041831612
Wed, Oct 17, 2007, 19:33

Hmmmmm........"bmd sends Rajon Rondo and his 4.20 to GO for his 2.06"

Ricky Davis can be had for similar terms.

255

Mike D
Leader
ID: 041831612
Wed, Oct 17, 2007, 19:34

Ref taunting us with the plaque in our mailboxes. ;)

256

RecycledSpinalFluid
Dude
ID: 204401122
Wed, Oct 17, 2007, 19:37

GO's butt hurts right now...

257

beastiemiked
ID: 65112917
Wed, Oct 17, 2007, 21:34

GO's butt hurts right now...

Hmm, it's funny that you say this after your trade.

Find me a list that has Rondo out of the top 100 fantasy players. Add in his longterm value and it was a good deal for GO.

258

RecycledSpinalFluid
Dude
ID: 204401122
Wed, Oct 17, 2007, 22:28

Funston is an idiot.

Rondo is being hyped up due to the Three Amigos. He has absolutely no shooting skills. You get dimes and maybe decent steals. Minimal points, no 3s, poor shooting percentage, poor three point shooting percentage, no rebounds and no blocks. So, thats worth nearly a 3 round draft drop? Even you can't honestly say that.

259

beastiemiked
ID: 65112917
Wed, Oct 17, 2007, 23:06

He averaged 5 assists per game over the last 2 months dishing to bums. If he can log 30+ minutes a game he's going to average 7+ assists and 2+ steals. His rebounding will be above average for a guard and I'd be shocked if his FG% didn't improve. He's the high risk/reward type of player that teams rebuilding should be looking to acquire.

Also, Rondo > Murphy.

260

coldwater coyotes
ID: 544382119
Thu, Oct 18, 2007, 04:25

Can somebody explain the Murphy for Collins trade.

261

rockafellerskank
Dude
ID: 27652109
Thu, Oct 18, 2007, 09:54

see post #236. It was basically an unwanted keeper for an upgrade in draft position.

262

Great One
Sustainer
ID: 053272014
Thu, Oct 18, 2007, 10:09

So, thats worth nearly a 3 round draft drop?
Yeah, I'd say thats the consensus... starting PG on a major playoff contender? And 3 rounds in a league with 6 keepers and 20 teams? thats like going from the 14th to the 18th in a normal draft... seems like a pretty good deal to me.

I'm not overly concerned with his FG% since he won't be shooting a high volume with Ray, Pierce and KG handling that department. And having Amare/Gasol/LaMarcus fixes the FG% problem of anyone else on my squad.

And with Gilbert as well - you can put me down for a solid 20 points in the steals category as well (assuming health).

263

Great One
Sustainer
ID: 053272014
Thu, Oct 18, 2007, 10:40

Rotowire rankings out (better than Funston, right?)

Rondo? #74

Ahead of such great keepers as -
Bargnani, Battier, Harrington, Marbury, Bogut
David Lee, Rudy Gay, Ricky Davis, Troy Murphy #115), Bynum...

Looks like I took a HUGE gamble to get a player considered thought so highly of and only had to move down from pick #146 to #200 to do so. The players gotten in those spots are going to be drastically different I guess. What, instead of Tyronn Lue I'll get Speedy Claxton instead? Oh well.

264

barilko6
ID: 44829307
Thu, Oct 18, 2007, 11:00

TRADE

Barilko trades:

Sarunas Jasikwhatever
Pick 2.13 (Previously acquired from RSF

Mike D trades:

Ricky Davis
Pick 4.17

265

Great One
Sustainer
ID: 053272014
Thu, Oct 18, 2007, 11:02

Confirming for Mike D... I think his middle names Lucy cause they all call him loose.

266

barilko6
ID: 44829307
Thu, Oct 18, 2007, 11:05

At this point, I would be willing to package any 2 of my keepers for one better keeper and/or picks pacakge. Anyone I get back has to be younger and better than the guys I am sending out.

Josh Howard and Kevin Martin for....

267

Species
Dude
ID: 07724916
Thu, Oct 18, 2007, 13:30

Twarpy/Species trade is:

Hughes and Species' 3.19 for

Twarpy's 2.14

268

Species
Dude
ID: 07724916
Thu, Oct 18, 2007, 13:43

barilko - check your email for a last minute idea

269

Twarpy
ID: 53443916
Thu, Oct 18, 2007, 13:53

Still looking for a player for my 6th keeper that I would be willing to trade 3.19 for. Let me know real quick, been sending out some offers.

270

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Thu, Oct 18, 2007, 13:59

Sorry, not a lot of time to get online last night or today.

It appears everyone has posted their keepers in the thread. Don't forget to mark your keepers on nba. Thanks for everyone's help.

As far as the debate for trade values, well everyone values players differently. That's what makes this game so much fun. Personally, I like Murphy better than Rondo, but Rondo's stock is soaring because of his teammates around him. Who knows, but even though he couldn't shoot or do much else, those assists and steals could be huge. This is also his 2nd year and maybe he worked on his shot over the summer, etc. Murphy didn't do as well under Carlisle's use the shot clock technique but has flourished thus far, albeit preseason, under O'Brien. His C eligibility and his 3s and a few assists to go along with his rebounds help. His boards fluctuate from game to game though as he wanders outside the arc, obviously. It all comes down to pesonal preference. GO, like me, likes to take chances. When bmd AIMed me about the deal, I was surprised to, but like he said, Rondo is even ranked above Murphy in some of the projections. Also it has a lot to do with GO
s pos/cat needs. It seems like a win/win. PP considered Rondo and Davis and some others but Murphy was better for his team apparently. There have been a couple other deals for players that had me scratching my head but after lookign at it, the Rondo deal wasn't one of them.

[244] Guru will have his treasury statement and prize pool options posted soon.

271

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Thu, Oct 18, 2007, 15:02

Keepers are now final. will double check nba.com for compliance from all teams before hitting the process keepers button.

272

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Thu, Oct 18, 2007, 15:27

Keepers have been processed. Appears this year that keepers are marked in rounds 7-12 and we will be picking in rounds 1-6.

NBA won't even allow anyone to pick before tomorrow afternoon at 2:30. I'll try and have a draft thread up sometime after that. You may NOT select anyone until the draft thread is up. Clock won't start until Sunday at 3:00 pm ET.

273

blackjackis21
Dude
ID: 034837521
Thu, Oct 18, 2007, 15:31

Oops - are we too late? I wasn't paying any attention to the deadline.

Fine by me if it's killed, but I just agreed to a Twarpy proposal: Drew Gooden plus my 5.18 for B. Bowen and Twarpy's 4.14.

274

Frick
Donor
ID: 3410101718
Thu, Oct 18, 2007, 15:31

Ruben Boumtje Boumtje will be selected as close to 2:30PM tomorrow as possible!

Come on Ref, you're holding me back here!

275

RecycledSpinalFluid
Dude
ID: 204401122
Thu, Oct 18, 2007, 15:33

Who the heck is twarpy dropping for Gooden? DisenFranchied?

276

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Thu, Oct 18, 2007, 15:33

Yeah too late bj21, neither of those players are owned anymore. Obvioulsy, the trade is denied.

277

blackjackis21
Dude
ID: 034837521
Thu, Oct 18, 2007, 15:34

works for me.

278

Twarpy
ID: 53443916
Thu, Oct 18, 2007, 15:34

Yeah was hoping we couldve gotten it in before the deadline, but guess its another year of Franchise for me (wahoo!).

279

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Thu, Oct 18, 2007, 15:42

Trading is still open but you only have 6 players to trade now obviously. You can now go over 6 players again but your draft is over once you hit 12 and you can't drop anyone until after waivers have been turned on.

280

Perm Dude
ID: 295187
Thu, Oct 18, 2007, 15:44

Ref, the My Team page is still showing my non-keepers. Should I drop them?

281

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Thu, Oct 18, 2007, 15:54

mine is too. If you go to trade room, it only shows the 6.

Sometimes the site is so great and other times it pisses me off like no other. There are so many bugs it seems. I know it's free and it has more bells and whistles than Yahoo!, but how many issues have we had. Well more than any of you even know. I have no idea why the non-keepers are still showing up. I have no idea why bj and twarpy's trade went through even though the players aren't even on the teams anymore. I have no idea why it is still showing protest when I changed that setting. I have no idea why we all get multiple emails via nba league email. I have no idea why we cna't seem to replace managers on our own. Makes me really apprciate CBS.

282

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Thu, Oct 18, 2007, 16:22

[253] I think the tatoo in the wacko jacko hread is worse--or at least more, well, wacky...

link

283

Tosh
Leader
ID: 057721710
Thu, Oct 18, 2007, 22:59

Pick	Round 1 (7)	Round 2 (8)	Round 3 (9)	Round 4 (10)	Round 5 (11)	Round 6 (12)
1	Frick	Slizz	Slizz	Slizz	Ref	Slizz
2	Pistol Pete	barilko6	RecycledSpinalFluid	barilko6	barilko6	barilko6
3	Tosh	Frick	Frick	Frick	Frick	Frick
4	Slizz	Ref	Pistol Pete	Pistol Pete	Pistol Pete	Pistol Pete
5	barilko6	Great One	Perm Dude	RecycledSpinalFluid	Perm Dude	Perm Dude
6	Great One	beastiemiked	Great One	Great One	Perm Dude	blackjackis21
7	Tosh	Tosh	blackjackis21	Tosh	blackjackis21	Tosh
8	slackjawed yokel	slackjawed yokel	slackjawed yokel	slackjawed yokel	slackjawed yokel	slackjawed yokel
9	Peter N	Peter N	Ref	Peter N	Peter N	Peter N
10	rockafellerskank	rockafellerskank	rockafellerskank	rockafellerskank	Species	rockafellerskank
11	Guru	Guru	Guru	Guru	Guru	Guru
12	coldwater coyotes	coldwater coyotes	coldwater coyotes	coldwater coyotes	coldwater coyotes	coldwater coyotes
13	RecycledSpinalFluid	Mike D **	Perm Dude	RecycledSpinalFluid	RecycledSpinalFluid	RecycledSpinalFluid
14	KnicksFan	Species	Twarpy	Twarpy	Twarpy	Twarpy
15	Peter N	KnicksFan	KnicksFan	KnicksFan	KnicksFan	KnicksFan
16	Mike D	Ref	Slizz	Pistol Pete	Ref	Ref
17	Perm Dude	Mike D	Mike D	barilko6	Mike D	Mike D
18	Species	blackjackis21	Tosh	Great One	blackjackis21	blackjackis21
19	beastiemiked	Species	Twarpy	rockafellerskank	Species	Species
20	Twarpy	beastiemiked	beastiemiked	Great One	beastiemiked	beastiemiked

* 2-07 GO receives bj21s 4th rounder (4.18) for his 6th rounder (6.06) (Nachbar/Parker deal)
* 2-27 Slizz gets Ref's 3rd rounder (3.16). Ref gets Slizz's 5th rounder (5.01) (Delonte West/James Posey)
* 2-28 Peter N gets Ref's 1st Rounder (1.15). Ref gets Peter N's 3rd rounder (3.09) (Tinsley/Devin Brown)
* 3-10 Tosh receives BJ21's 1st and 3rd round picks (1.17, 3.18) for his 3rd and 5th rounders (3.07, 5.07) (Gooden)
* 3-18 GO receives PD's 2nd rounder (2.05) for his 5th rounder (5.06) (Alston)
* 10-12 Rockafellerskank receives Species 4th rounder (4.19) for his 5th rounder (5.10)(JONeal/Jrich)
* 10-14 Perm Dude receives RSF's 3rd rounder (3.13) for his 4th rounder (4.05) (Curry/Miller)
* 10-16 barilko6 receives RSF's 2nd rounder (2.13) for his 3rd rounder (3.02) (Diaw/Stojacovich)
* 10-17 Tosh receives Perm Dudes 1st rounder (1.03) for pick 1.17 (via bj21) (Billups/Alston)
* 10-18 Ref receives PistolPete's 2nd rounder (2.04) for his 4th rounder (4.16) (Murphy)
* 10-18 beastiemiked receives GreatOne's 2nd rounder (2.06) for his 4th rounder (4.20) (Rondo)
* 10-18 Mike D receives barilko6's 2.13 pick (via RSF) for his 4th rounder (4.17) (Davis/Jasikwhatever)
* 10-18 Species receives Twarpy's 2nd rounder (2.14) for his 3rd rounder (3.19) (Hughes)

Lottery Winners - Frick, Pistol Pete, Perm Dude

284

rockafellerskank
Dude
ID: 27652109
Fri, Oct 19, 2007, 12:24

Sorry if I missed this. Are we drafting on rotoguru or the NBA.com site?

285

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Fri, Oct 19, 2007, 13:38

Both.

Official picks and times are in the leagues forum in our thread. BUt then you will be asked to go to nba's ufc and pick there. If you use the html version it will email the entire league that you picked (and hopefully tells who is up--I cna't remember). New this year they have a java applet. If you use that, it will NOT email anyone and you will be asked to manually email the next three managers who are up to pick.

The draft thread will be up this afternoon, but it will not be timed and no one is under any pressure or obligation to make selections. However, once the time starts, it's a different story as we need to average a round per day so we can get waivers turned on in time for them to run (hopefully twice but at least once) before games start Tuesday. Friday evening and Saturdays are historically very slow days. Since we use an aggressive per pick clock of 3 hours and even a more aggressive cumulative time of 8 hours for 6 picks, we're basically giving people some "free" time to get some early picks in--since those are generally more apparent. Ideally, everyone should be on even keel as far as the time limit goes, but since most use Qs and the c clock rarely comes into play, we might as well give us a better chance to finish the draft on time should we have some lapses.

Just as a reminder, no time will count against anyone who picks before the clock starts on Sunday at 3:00 ET. Also no time will count against anyone who has a Q sent to someone who is able to make that pick in a timely manner. A Q is defined as a list of players sent before that person's turn is up. IOW, if you call or email someone your pick after you are up, it counts as the same as you having made that pick.

I'll try to cover all of this in the draft thread. rfs hasn't particiapted with us in awhile. I think we started the c clock after he left. Slizz participated in G24, so I think the only one who's a true rookie is barilko6. But still, we all have slept a few times since then. If anyone has any questions or comments, fire away.

286

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Fri, Oct 19, 2007, 13:43

Btw, I was looking at our last few drafts and it's funny how well or how bad some picks panned out. Guru has saved our last four drafts and the varios discussions here

287

rockafellerskank
Dude
ID: 27652109
Fri, Oct 19, 2007, 14:09

If you use the html version it will email the entire league that you picked

Please tell me NBA.com isn't going to send me 8 e-mails each time someone picks? That would be 20 x 6 x 8 = 960 e-mails!

288

Frick
Donor
ID: 3410101718
Fri, Oct 19, 2007, 14:14

Looking through last year's thread I will note 2 comments I made.

1. That I would love to have the #1 pick this year. I'm still glad that I have it, but my goal is to have a mid to late round pick next year. We'll see.

2. I had a tough time deciding between Gay and Roy. Even a year later I can't say that 1 is a slam dunk pick. I would probably lean more towards Roy simply because he's a point guard, but now that Memphis doesn't have Fratello as a coach and is looking to play more of a Euro/Phoenix style that might change back.

T-minus 15 minutes or so. Ruben Boutjme-Boutjme get your cap ready!

289

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Fri, Oct 19, 2007, 14:19

rf, perhaps you're only getting mutliple emails when using the email league software they have. I only got a single email when they sent me a draft reminder today.

Tosh sent me a note telling me that everyone should use the html version as the java applet is still listing everyone's lineup before keepers. If you go to the main league page, there is a rosters link that shows everyone's current roster after keepers. As Tosh pointed out in an email to me, it seems that most of the bugs have to do with keepers. Hopefully nba has addressed all there non-keeper league issues.

Still looking through things on the site. I will definitely wiat until the draft room opens and look things over before I open the draft thread. Please don't pick on nba until after you are able to post in the draft thread.

290

Great One
Sustainer
ID: 053272014
Fri, Oct 19, 2007, 14:33

I did get 2 draft notification emails - but thankfully Gmail is nice enough to put them all in one conversation so it still looked like only 1.

Also doing that for all my Kafenatid notices. Gmail rules.

291

RecycledSpinalFluid
Dude
ID: 204401122
Fri, Oct 19, 2007, 14:34

Gmail does rule

292

Tosh
Leader
ID: 057721710
Fri, Oct 19, 2007, 14:38

FYI - Since the timer has started in the draft room ... the java applet version is working much better. All the keepers are now listed.

I only get multiple emails when something is sent to 'all managers' via the message board. Private messages are only sent once.

gmail does rule

293

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Fri, Oct 19, 2007, 14:40

I do love gmail!!!

Ok, the draft room is open so I've been looking around. It appears that the java applet is working fine now. Tosh is still looking at some things too. So I will get the draft thread up in a few mins now and Tosh is going to post the draft order and the keeper list so we can search the thread for players already taken before posting. I will post here when the draft thread is up. Also we will be moving our discussion from here to a separate discussion thread in the basketball leagues forum as well.

294

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Fri, Oct 19, 2007, 15:04

Draft thread

Discussion thread

OK, the draft/discussion threads are up and tosh has posted the charts so Frick you may fire when ready.

Forum: hoopPage 12513Subject: Gurupie 20 Basketball 2007 Preseason Discussion

Forum: hoop
Page 12513
Subject: Gurupie 20 Basketball 2007 Preseason Discussion