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0 Subject: RIFC 2013: Qualifying Leagues

Posted by: Guru
- [330592710] Tue, Jul 16, 2013, 15:16

Now that the managers for the 2013 RIFC have been set, it's time to organize the qualifying leagues.

Once again, I hope to have two AAA leagues and one AA league, each with 14 managers.

Managers in the AAA leagues will be prequalified based on last year's experience. In general, prequalifiers are the RIFC teams who were not invited to return to the RIFC, plus all playoff teams in last year's qualifying leagues, plus the top non-playoff teams in each of those leagues. Here is the (alphabetical) list of the 28 managers who are pre-qualified for a AAA league:

The Beezer
Building 7
Dave R
Donkey Hunters
Letter J
Slackjawed yokels

Commissioners have already volunteered for the two AAA leagues: damoose and mjd.

Rather than starting a free-for-all signup thread, I have sent an email to each of these managers (using the email address that they registered at last season). If you are on the list above, please check your email. (Let me know if you can't find it. Check your spam folder first.)

I am also emailing all other managers not prequalified for a AAA slot, just to make sure they are also interested in playing in AA this year. If there are openings in AAA (because a qualifier has opted out), the AA list will be used to fill those openings – unless I decide to use a different league structure (not planned, but I want to keep options open until all is settled).

A few general comments about the RIFC leagues, for those who are unfamiliar with the setup.

1. The top RIFC league is filled each year from the top teams in that league and the AAA and AA qualifying leagues. Several teams from each AAA league will advance, while the (playoff) winner of the AA league will also move up to the top league.

2. AAA leagues are also filled with those who have qualified based on prior performance.

3. Leagues are hosted at, and the draft is also held at that site. The draft is a “slow” online draft, typically taking place during the last week of August. Each league will set its own timeline – but you must be available to make picks each day during your draft. (Queues can be used to make your picks at times when you may be delayed or unavailable.)

4. Teams have 24 players, from which 15 will start each week. Individual defensive players (IDP) are included, and 7 of the 15 starting slots are for IDPs.

5. Doubleheaders are scheduled each week, so each team faces two different opponents head-to-head. The regular season is 13 weeks, allowing for a complete round robin schedule where is opponent is faced twice. The top 8 teams are then seeded in a single elimination bracket to determine a champion during weeks 14-16.

For a more detailed listing of the 2012 rules, see the next post in this thread.

If you did not play in a RIFC league last season and would like to play in a AA league this year, you may sign up below. Please provide your email address if you sign up – and it must be an address that you check and will respond to.

Once I get responses from most of last year’s managers (via email), I’ll post more organizational details here.

Only the 50 most recent replies are currently shown. Click on this text to display hidden posts as well.
      ID: 54203110
      Wed, Jul 24, 2013, 18:37
I will help out in an AA league. I hate to see those signed up left out...

Will see if I can find some interested folks for AA...
      ID: 556532417
      Wed, Jul 24, 2013, 18:55
Heck I was going to add my 2 cents on blind bidding:

Make it manditory for the RIFC.
Make it optional for AAA.
Don't even think about it for AA.
      ID: 019742310
      Wed, Jul 24, 2013, 20:02
The rules should be the same across all leagues since the goal is to make it in to the RIFC if you are not currently there. If someone doesn't like the rules they can opt to not play, convince everyone the rules should be changed, or become informed on why weekly resetting worst to first can be a very broken system. That discussion/argument was had last year in one of these threads.
      ID: 395323014
      Thu, Jul 25, 2013, 10:08
or become informed on why weekly resetting worst to first can be a very broken system.

a broken system is one that causes people to stop playing because it's less fun. we're seeing that with blind bidding.
      ID: 330592710
      Thu, Jul 25, 2013, 10:18
If we were to revert to a traditional waiver system for the AA league, how many drop-out managers would we get back?

PD and Sarge, would you rejoin?

Tree, although it would mean a step down to AA, would you participate in a AA league under those conditions?

Trying to figure out a way to get to critical mass. That 4th league has already been paid for, so we ought to find some way to use it.
27Perm Dude
      ID: 41661813
      Thu, Jul 25, 2013, 11:06
Without blind bidding, I would certainly re-up.

      ID: 106272511
      Thu, Jul 25, 2013, 12:27
I am on my phone so I can't read over this thread right now, but see the discussion on blind bidding.

I'd be interested in joining if a league is created.
      ID: 416292511
      Thu, Jul 25, 2013, 12:29
i'd probably be interested in re joining a non blind bidding league. but i'd also like to see more discussion of it. i guess i just fail to see the merit of it, in regards to it making an positive impact in fairness vs. reducing the fun of the game.
      ID: 308491916
      Thu, Jul 25, 2013, 12:49
Someone with some time on their hands should run some stats and compare the number of weekly pickups via bidding in 2012 to the number of weekly pickups via the old system in 2011. Did we have a lot of teams that just didn't bother to place bids?
      ID: 154252315
      Thu, Jul 25, 2013, 13:12
RE 17 FYI - I heard from Syncopats. He'll be posting here shortly as back again.
      ID: 496112513
      Thu, Jul 25, 2013, 14:11
Does the league provider have a hybrid claiming process where you can have both blind bidding and then open free agency until start of games?

Would that solve issues?
      ID: 366212513
      Thu, Jul 25, 2013, 14:50
Barilko, blind bidding only replaces the waiver system. Once either process has run, all unclaimed players become free agents available on a first come, first served basis until gametime.

On a more general note, I don't really understand how conditional blind bidding is viewed as so much more complicated than the waiver system. If one's goal in a given week is to pick up a random bye week kicker, you have to do the same amount of work whether using waivers or blind bidding. With waivers, you open up a waiver round and then add a series of kickers to it in the order of desirability. For blind bidding, you go to the blind bidding screen and place $1 bids on a series of kickers in the order of desirability. The only difference I see is that blind bidding gives you the ability to target a particular player or group of players. If you decide that one kicker is much more valuable to you than the others, you can place a bigger bid, let's say $10, to make it much more likely that you get your preferred choice. And lastly, if you really don't care who you get, just wait until blind bidding/waivers has run and then grab a FA out of the first come, first served pool.

I understand that waivers has a built-in parity element with the waiver reset in the first 6 weeks of the season, which is a different issue altogether. But I would very much like to hear a bit more from those who consider blind bidding more complicated than the waiver system, as I see it the other way around.
      ID: 106272511
      Thu, Jul 25, 2013, 14:58
Fair enough. My other league is an auction league with blind bidding in place and its been great.

Having the lowest place team get the hot free agent is a great way to create competitive balance, but I prefer to realize that all managers should work hard to make their team better, not be handed gifts on silver platters week by week, rewarding their incompetence.

On the flip side, what about the top ranked team that loses their RB/QB to injury and no realistic chance for a replacement due to the is position in the standings. With the blind bid process, all teams have the ability to fill holes if they want it badly enough.
35 gurudan
      ID: 569231012
      Thu, Jul 25, 2013, 18:48
i've always found that the regular waiver wire system favors west coast managers and younger people who stay up all night.i play in a money league where free agency starts at 800 pm TUES and are processed by your time stamp, and the arguments are monumental. i like blind bidding and would even go so far as to say i'm sure i'd like conditional blind bidding. also, i'll manage a AA team if you need someone. i contacted two people to see if they had an interest, but they don't have time for fantasy football.

      ID: 54203110
      Fri, Jul 26, 2013, 19:49
After being quite fearful of blind bidding I really liked it. It was a ton of fun to see who valued whom for how much. Especially fun since the system lets you see all the bids at the end. I thought it was great when somebody bid say $22 and I had bid say $6. Fun to see the value -- to his team -- that he thought the player could be...
That said, even more fun was that in our league we did NOT round to a dollar, but did cents as well. I liked it.
Also some guys did not bid at all and some used up most of their money by mid season...
To each his /her own...
      ID: 54203110
      Fri, Jul 26, 2013, 20:06
Also, it is going to be very interesting to see how MFL classifies the hybrid 3/4 or 4/3 defensive scheme in terms of labeling a guy a DE or OLB...makes a huge difference for us with the 2 x DL requirement...
      ID: 10792323
      Mon, Jul 29, 2013, 22:45
I didn't like the blind bidding. I found it overly complicated. In theory it's fine but in practice I found myself spending a lot of time trying to figure out the process. And that's not fun.
      ID: 11651713
      Tue, Jul 30, 2013, 08:27
5 people declining to come back out of 28 shouldn't dictate a rule change IMO. Just sounds more like, I want it my way or I'm not playing playground talk. Rules and changes need to change just about every year to bring interest and spice or else it is like eating a saltine cracker everyday... Occasionally you need a little cheese on that cracker, etc. For now I think the blind bidding is something different and new, but perhaps in 2-3 years it will be the new saltine cracker.
40Perm Dude
      ID: 41661813
      Tue, Jul 30, 2013, 08:38
I want it my way or I'm not playing playground talk

With respect, I don't see any of the people declining to play phrasing it as that way. We declined to play, giving our reason for doing so. It was Guru who suggested the rule change, not anyone who opted out.
      ID: 11651713
      Tue, Jul 30, 2013, 08:50
I like all three of you guys in my leagues when you play, Sarge, Perm Dude and Tree. So seeing you not play, sure I would hate it.

I'm just saying that I don't think GURU should change rules just to please 3-5 people. Time changes all things and people/managers need to adapt. If you enjoy the people you play with yearly, which I do, I take the changes and run with it. I can voice my opinion and say, oh I don't like that new rule etc. But I'm not going to say, I'm not playing.

It just sort of reminds me how we are with kids these days and coddling... everyone has to have a trophy... No 1st / 2nd / 3rd places.
42Perm Dude
      ID: 41661813
      Tue, Jul 30, 2013, 09:15
Oh, I have no problem with your opinion about whether Guru should change the rule or not. Up to him entirely. Which means if he wants to change it to keep people it then it is still up to him.

I'm only pushing back on the idea that the dropouts asked that the rule be changed--we did not.
      ID: 330592710
      Tue, Jul 30, 2013, 10:24
I just emailed all RIFC and AAA managers to try to get a complete count of how many would be interested in running a second team. Please check your emails and let me know ASAP.
44 barilko6
      ID: 3658309
      Tue, Jul 30, 2013, 10:58
As mentioned above...if there is room in any opening leagues, I would be interested.
      ID: 330592710
      Tue, Jul 30, 2013, 12:45
Although I'm still collecting feedback, it looks like we will be able to field a AA league.

Here is the current lay of the land.

I have 24 acceptances for AAA. That leaves four open slots. I have four AA managers from last year who I think will be interested in moving up to fill those spots, if asked.

I currently have 6 others who are interested in a AA team. Two have said they will join only with traditional waivers (PD and sarge). The other four did not play last year (Bean, mmikulka, astade, barilko6).

Tree still has not committed to anything as far as I know, although I am assuming he is not interested in AAA with blind bidding. It sounds like he would join a non-blind bidding AA league [post 29], although that is clearly not a firm commitment yet.

That leaves 7 slots still to fill in AA. Wolfer would be one of the AA managers who could move up to AAA, but he has agreed to continue to commish the AA league (with a second team) if it flies. So I may only need 6 other managers - either new managers or duplicates from other RIFC leagues.

I suspect I'll be able to get six managers to take a second team. (I might already have them.) However, I'd like to keep things open for new managers for at least a few more days.

      ID: 39432178
      Tue, Jul 30, 2013, 13:16
I am working on 2 buddies to join the AA league. Both have told me they would be interested and both have been sent links to this thread. But one has a newborn and the other is a newly wed with a wife hounding him to fix up their house so I may have to keep hounding them. Once in, I have no doubts either will stay active, though.
      ID: 376353013
      Tue, Jul 30, 2013, 14:35
sorry. i'm interested in a non-blind bidding league, presuming such a thing exists.

i wonder if there isn't an option here with eventually a non-blind bidding AAA as well?
      ID: 308491916
      Tue, Jul 30, 2013, 14:46
I don't think bidding adds much to the league, but it's also not difficult to adapt to and isn't much more time consuming than the old claim system (which is also a hassle).
      ID: 330592710
      Tue, Jul 30, 2013, 15:40
Tree and Slackjawed Yokel - I just sent a "fill or kill" email for AAA. Tree - sorry I missed your post 47 before I sent it - which I take as a decline for AAA.

I don't think Yokel is even active in anything RotoGuru anymore, so I don't expect him to respond.

So, I expect to send out four "promotion" notices tomorrow for the four open AAA slots.

I will keep AA signups open for a few more days - probably through the weekend. I do have enough second-team volunteers to fill the remaining AA openings; I haven't yet made a final decision on the waiver system for that league.

Frankly, I'm a bit flummoxed by the strong sentiment expressed by a few against blind bidding - but I do recognize their stance. My preference is still to have all leagues under a common framework - which would be blind bidding for all. But I would like to get as broad participation as I can, and I also know that their are many aspects of RIFC other than blind bidding (very deep rosters, IDPs, full scoring system) along with a learning curve for that suggest that perhaps a more familiar waiver system for newcomers is not a bad thing.

50Slackjawed Yokel
      ID: 38502923
      Tue, Jul 30, 2013, 20:09
Just sent you an email, guru... I'm in. I apologize for the holdup.

And, you're right... I've had a nasty year, but plan to be active again with football.
      ID: 330592710
      Tue, Jul 30, 2013, 20:31
Surprise surprise! Tree also decided to play AAA again. Will work out AAA league assignments in the next day or so.

AA recruiting is still ongoing. I have plenty of managers willing to take a second team - so we will definitely have a 14-team AA league - but would still prefer to find new blood where possible.
      ID: 116473017
      Tue, Jul 30, 2013, 21:22
I'm up for a AA slot. Never done an IDP league but have been playing FF for years. Even played the golf game here for a while years ago. Would enjoy getting back into the swing of things here at Rotoguru.
      ID: 11651713
      Wed, Jul 31, 2013, 11:05
I'll vouch for PhillyBuster. I sent an email that contains his email address as well.

      ID: 330592710
      Wed, Jul 31, 2013, 11:06
Here are the tentative AAA league assignments, which were essentially randomly determined. Later today, I'll be sending emails to the respective commissioners, along with registration info.

AAA#1 - Commissioner is damoose
Da Bomb
Dave R
Donkey Hunters

AAA#2 - Commissioner is mjd
Letter J
Slackjawed yokels
      ID: 330592710
      Wed, Jul 31, 2013, 11:22
For the AA league, I'm leaning toward using a traditional waiver system, but not quite the same as what we had used in prior RIFC seasons. That system used standings to reset the priorities in the first 6 weeks, which gave an advantage to teams that started poorly (which doesn't necessarily mean they were weaker teams), and which required a bit of manual adjustment each week by the commissioner (or me) to make it work properly on

Instead, I'm proposing that the initial waiver priority order be established prior to the draft, in the reverse of the order that teams are randomly assigned for the draft selection round. So, if you get the first chance to determine your draft order position, you will start the season with the lowest waiver priority, etc. The order will not reset during the regular season, except that waiver claims awarded will drop that team to the bottom of the list, like traditional waivers.

Starting with the playoffs, priorities will be reseeded for playoff teams to give the top seed the top priority.

Hopefully, this system is balanced and straightforward, and should not add any extra confusion for managers who are often already dealing with a lot of new fantasy football aspects.

So far, I have the following 10 teams for the AA league :
Commissioner: wolfer
Perm Dude
Crabby Bills

The league will have 14 teams. We'll wait until Monday to see if any more new managers ask to play. At that time, I have an ample list of managers from other RIFC leagues who have offered to run a second team to fill any remaining slots. Registration info will be forthcoming.

If you would like to join this AA league, please post your interest (and email address) in this thread, or send an email to

57 Toral
      ID: 1710311217
      Wed, Jul 31, 2013, 12:16
Per post 19, I will play in an AA league as well.
      ID: 330592710
      Wed, Jul 31, 2013, 12:18
I've got a long list of teams interested in a second team in AA. I'm not going to designate those until next week, giving priority to new teams first.
      ID: 17613114
      Wed, Jul 31, 2013, 15:03
if there's room with a more traditional waiver system such as listed above, i'd also do an AA team. i really do like MFL.
      ID: 10636317
      Wed, Jul 31, 2013, 19:39
The game looks a bit complicated with all the categories for new player. However, still interested if AA opening.
      ID: 1575119
      Thu, Aug 01, 2013, 10:51
I started a thread for AAA #1 over at the football leagues and standings page.
62 mjd
      ID: 501381415
      Thu, Aug 01, 2013, 12:47
Link to RIFC AAA #2
      ID: 49934911
      Thu, Aug 01, 2013, 14:30
gonna be on vacation until 11 AUG with limited internet access. If looking for a response from me on something during that time, please take that into consideration
      ID: 330592710
      Sat, Aug 03, 2013, 10:12
I just sent out AA invites to 11 teams - the 10 teams listed in post 55, plus twolves. We'll fill the last three slots in the next few days, either with new teams, or duplicates from other leagues.
      ID: 3871221
      Sat, Aug 03, 2013, 12:38
Sorry for the delayed time is unsure atm. W/O blind bidding I'd *want* to rejoin, but in fairness to everyone else, I need to pass this year. I cant promise timely drafting right now.
      ID: 330592710
      Mon, Aug 05, 2013, 09:22
I just sent out five invites for duplicate AA teams, to be managed by:

Holt brothers

To the others who offered to run a second team - sit tight for now. I'm hoping that the AA league is now full, but there are still a few teams that have not yet signed in.
      ID: 1572258
      Mon, Aug 05, 2013, 09:23
AA league thread is here.
      ID: 3811221423
      Tue, Aug 06, 2013, 15:25
Are there any more openings for RIFC teams?
      ID: 330592710
      Tue, Aug 06, 2013, 16:16
WG - we'll fit you in. Let's wait to see if there are any no-shows, otherwise we'll give you a slot in lieu of a duplicate manager in AA.
      ID: 3811221423
      Tue, Aug 06, 2013, 16:40
Thanks Guru... sorry for posting so late about this. Appreciate the consideration.
71 gurudan
      ID: 569231012
      Wed, Aug 07, 2013, 13:48
i had emailed that if you needed managers for AA, I would play. are you filled?
      ID: 330592710
      Sat, Aug 10, 2013, 19:36
All filled.
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