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Subject: Different form of fantasy football
Posted by: wiggs
- Sustainer [04991311] Fri, Apr 11, 2008, 12:43
Goallineblitz.com
You create a player
then get drafted by a team
you train to get better
build levels
Then they simulate games.
Its alot of fun. Check it out.
If you create a player please use this reference
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Only the 50 most recent replies are currently shown. Click on this text to display hidden posts as well.
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| 492 | wiggs
Sustainer
ID: 04991311
Tue, Apr 22, 2008, 23:24
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i think that is the 500,000 we have, next to that money it says ticket sales.
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| 493 | wiggs
Sustainer
ID: 04991311
Tue, Apr 22, 2008, 23:25
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twarpy, not sure i understand what you are saying?
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| 494 | Jack Hammers
Donor
ID: 236482918
Tue, Apr 22, 2008, 23:27
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Re 487: Tree how are you leveling up without boosting? isn't this the off season where nothing happens? I thought I read that earlier between Sarge and Wiggs I guess I just don't understand yet. I only made my player yesterday and I havnt seen any activity anywhere on his page
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| 495 | Twarpy
Leader
ID: 386242821
Tue, Apr 22, 2008, 23:28
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Does everyteam start with 500k? or do different levels IE 'A' start with more money?
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| 496 | wiggs
Sustainer
ID: 04991311
Tue, Apr 22, 2008, 23:28
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i think everyone starts the same.
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| 497 | Tree
ID: 473562216
Tue, Apr 22, 2008, 23:30
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what i'm reading is that you go normal most of the time, with a bit of intense and relaxed thrown in.
not trying to bankrupt you, but if i'm level 5 by Sunday, i can't afford a contract for less than 1,000 a day, and that's the bare minimum....i'm continuing to do research, but if i'm level 5, i'm thinking 1,200 a day is enough to train and actually not go broke, as well as fair market value...
(and for the record, i'm only negotiating here in public as we're all newbies, so everyone can see the process...as these seasons go on, this should be a private conversation)
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| 498 | dpr
ID: 1733917
Tue, Apr 22, 2008, 23:33
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but we are going to get ticket revenue. You dont have pay all the salary up fron only use 1/40 of that a year.
As I said look at the totals Reb posted. Those teams have salaries which are 1.5M or more. Twice ours. These are also the worst teams in the worst leagues. in other words worst case scenario ticket sales wise and they still have extra money. We do have extra to spend.
Posts on the forums seem to say that a smart manager gives enough money so that players can train on normal. 680 (my offer) is normal training for a level 9. I will be level 7 as soon as i can boost. Through experience i will get to elvel 9 like a week not training and games yet still be under contract for 12 weeks.
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| 499 | wiggs
Sustainer
ID: 04991311
Tue, Apr 22, 2008, 23:34
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i am going to hold off on offers for tonight. There seems to be alot of problems here.
Tree 1200 is a ridiculous amount to get paid. I am level 5 right now and I am making 500 a day and i have 5000 dollars after season 1.
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| 500 | barilko6
ID: 103532220
Tue, Apr 22, 2008, 23:37
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I honestly have an offer which is a one year deal for $1050 a day plus a $12,000 signing bonus.
Now while I don't expect near that to play for this team, I have to note that its quite the difference.
I don't think its Wiggs lowballing us here, just a matter of all of us being new and not realizing what is all involved...
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| 501 | wiggs
Sustainer
ID: 04991311
Tue, Apr 22, 2008, 23:37
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the whole season is only 40 days- 2 seasons would be 80 days. There is no way you can be under contract for 12 weeks.
I am thinking that this might be a mistake. I dont know if I will have the time to do this. maybe i will sell my team and let one of the other guys run the team.
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| 502 | Tree
ID: 473562216
Tue, Apr 22, 2008, 23:37
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Re 487: Tree how are you leveling up without boosting? isn't this the off season where nothing happens? I thought I read that earlier between Sarge and Wiggs I guess I just don't understand yet. I only made my player yesterday and I havnt seen any activity anywhere on his page
hmmm, good point. i've been steadily increasing in XP, but maybe it's stalled now that the playoffs are over? i guess i'll know in the morning. i've been training, and getting XP. i'm a couple hundred away from level 3.
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| 503 | dpr
ID: 1733917
Tue, Apr 22, 2008, 23:45
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Just to be upfront I made a post in the palyers looking for teams section asking what fair market value was for a level 4 WR soon to be 7 was. I am not gonig to accept any offers but jsut wanted to see the range that was to be expected for a reference
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| 504 | Tree
ID: 473562216
Tue, Apr 22, 2008, 23:47
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i also don't believe Wiggs is intentionally low balling us. but, i think this requires a bit more study.
i was looking at other threads, as people analyzed players and such. 1200 a day is a 48,000 a year contract, which is in the range of what level 5 guys oughta be getting, based on the threads on those boards.
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| 505 | wiggs
Sustainer
ID: 04991311
Tue, Apr 22, 2008, 23:49
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but the problem is you are not at those levels now.
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| 506 | dpr
ID: 1733917
Tue, Apr 22, 2008, 23:51
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Here is a quick reply that I got. as well as 25 messages in my inbox. those boards are hopping as i got that within 5 mins. Just posting this to show about where market value is
Usually 200 bucks per day per level. So 800 per day right now.
As you get higher, it's more important to get a good signing bonus to cover your level 8 equipment and salary is less important since you can't train on intense during the season..
So, if you're definitely boosting to level 7, you may want 8-9k for SB and a lower salary like 950 per day as that will put enough in the bank for level 8 equipment and leave plenty for training during the season even at higher levels.
That's how I would do your contract anyway..
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| 507 | dpr
ID: 1733917
Tue, Apr 22, 2008, 23:54
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25 offers in less then 10 mins.....
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| 508 | Tree
ID: 473562216
Wed, Apr 23, 2008, 00:05
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dpr is right. 3 minutes after posting, i already have 9 contract offers.
they range so far from just under 16,000 a year to 35,600.
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| 509 | wiggs
Sustainer
ID: 04991311
Wed, Apr 23, 2008, 00:10
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what kind of signing bonuses did they offer?
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| 510 | dpr
ID: 1733917
Wed, Apr 23, 2008, 00:10
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ok for comparisons sake i now have 30 offers. Only 1 was as low as offer from this team and thats only 1 year. so post 483....
17 were for over 1000 a day with the best 2 being 1500 tho no signing bonus and 2 yrs. if i was actually on the market this is the best offer i got IMO 1 year 1200/day with 7k bonus and offer to renegotiate at level 8. AKA free 7k bonus as level 8 is in a week.
Now i dont expect a contract like that but I do think a 50% increase is reasonable as well as only 1 year contracts and signing bonus' which put us towards getting our equipment (many will need it in a week)
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| 511 | GoatLocker
Leader
ID: 060151121
Wed, Apr 23, 2008, 00:12
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I've got 3 CPU offers all for the same amount.
$778/day
I'll wait until I get the offer from Wiggs to sign.
Will do so tomorrow or when ever I get it.
Cliff
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| 512 | wiggs
Sustainer
ID: 04991311
Wed, Apr 23, 2008, 00:14
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you think you should get a signing bonus every season? That is unreal.
I really dont think you understand that teams go bankrupt and are forced to take loans out. There is no way this team will be able to play for more then 2 seasons what contracts like that.
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| 513 | Doug
ID: 321302615
Wed, Apr 23, 2008, 00:16
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Well, there are people who started season 1 who were level 11 by end of season (10 levels). Using my spreadsheet (I'll try to post a revised one later tonight) I expect to go from level 4 to level 13 this season (9 levels). I have pretty good stamina and we have CB depth so I also assumed I'd alternate days between relaxed and normal training.
So I don't think it's at all unreasonable to think that I could go up another 7 levels next season and be level 20 by the end... the pace does slow... but even if it's only 18 or 19, there's no way I can survive on a level 4 minimum salary at that point.
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| 514 | dpr
ID: 1733917
Wed, Apr 23, 2008, 00:16
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for me most offered signing bonus' ranged from 0 to 10k with most obviously being in the middle.
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| 515 | wiggs
Sustainer
ID: 04991311
Wed, Apr 23, 2008, 00:16
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i am going to bed now, i will look into this more in the AM
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| 516 | wiggs
Sustainer
ID: 04991311
Wed, Apr 23, 2008, 00:21
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I dont think many, if any players leveled up 10 levels in season 1. I just searched my entire league, no one was above level 9 and most were level 7. That also is from 1-9 it is harder to go from 4-13
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| 517 | dpr
ID: 1733917
Wed, Apr 23, 2008, 00:23
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there are also players whoa re level 14 i thought
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| 518 | PuNk42AE
Donor
ID: 036635522
Wed, Apr 23, 2008, 00:33
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Wiggs alot of teams offer multiple signing bonus's. They will give you one to sign, then give you another one at lvl 8 for the equip.
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| 519 | Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Wed, Apr 23, 2008, 01:01
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I posted just to see the offers and within 3 mins I had 18 offers and they are still flying in. My first offer is the best at last check at 56K plus a 8K signing bonus.
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| 520 | PuNk42AE
Donor
ID: 036635522
Wed, Apr 23, 2008, 01:09
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Well so far i've gotten 15 offers+ after being released, with two of them being 64K (1600 per day) with 5K bonus.
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| 521 | TB
Sherpa
ID: 031811922
Wed, Apr 23, 2008, 01:11
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My first contract was a 20k signing bonus and 700 bucks a day - 2 year deal.
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| 522 | Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Wed, Apr 23, 2008, 01:12
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Man the offers are overflowing.
Some of the comments sent to me are guaranteed starter and a boost in pay for every level I get. Can renegotiate for every level I get. Tell me what it will take to get you. I've been rejecting them right and left--at least the lowball offers. They are offers for 1, 2 and even 3 year deals.
The last one has offered me a no-trade claus and here along with this:
225k for 4yrs. 10k bonus.
yr 1: 40k, Yr 2-3: 60k, yr 4: 65k,
year 2 opt out clause
incentive bonus and minimums
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| 523 | Weykool
Leader
ID: 41750315
Wed, Apr 23, 2008, 01:12
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I think the key here is we need to run this thing together.
I dont think it should be a matter of Wiggs lowballing and players holding out.
We need to think in terms of what is best for the team....as a team.
We need to consider that everyone who wants to join should be able to level up just as much as any of the other players.
It wont do us any good if we have 10 players at level 10 while the rest of the team is at level 3 or 4.
We are only as strong as our weakest link.
We need to get some projections as to how much money the team will have available from ticket sales and consessions.
We need to invest in having a better stadium in order to increase ticker revenue.
We need to make sure we pay all the players enough to have a winning season while at the same time making sure we dont bankrupt the team.
This shouldnt be the owner against the players.
We should all be thinking as owners with a player on the team.
We need to think what is the best strategy for long term success.
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| 524 | JTSERB
Donor
ID: 481020120
Wed, Apr 23, 2008, 01:12
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I accepted both offers wiggs..
QB Joe Roto
C Joe Jevdosic
Needs offers for
CB Joe Shutdown
DT Joe McSack
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| 525 | dpr
ID: 1733917
Wed, Apr 23, 2008, 01:13
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ok so how do we make this work?
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| 526 | Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Wed, Apr 23, 2008, 01:18
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I agree with wey. There is a fine line here. Players need the cash to get better to improve the team and the owner needs to be able to cover the salaries. Obviously ticket and concession sales. Parking. sponsorships. Hell I don't even know what all of the possibilities are. If we don't make enough, our team is going to stink. If we are overpaid the team will fail. It's gonna be a team effort. If ownership can renegotiate then we can take whatever it takes to make it work then he can add pay, etc. as we go.
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| 527 | Weykool
Leader
ID: 41750315
Wed, Apr 23, 2008, 01:31
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I put a msg looking for a team and recieved the following offers:
Level 2 DE
Guru:18,000/450 day/2K/2yr
17000/425/1K/1yr
28000/700/2K/2yr
36000/900/10K/4yr
30000/750/7.5K/1yr
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| 528 | Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Wed, Apr 23, 2008, 01:41
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I'm still level 3 (need one more referral to process for lvl 4) and most of my offers are from 40-48K. Signing bonus are typically between 6-10K. I'm wondering what the offers will be at lvl 4? I have offers for every single level of play as well.
I'm just wondering how competitive we will be. At least we are in the BBB league.
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| 529 | Weykool
Leader
ID: 41750315
Wed, Apr 23, 2008, 01:48
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got another offer for
50000/1250/2k/1yr
Seems to me we might not be doing ourselves any favors if we underpay everyone.
Someone needs to put together a comprehensive plan in order to grow the players and the franchise.
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| 530 | barilko6
ID: 103532220
Wed, Apr 23, 2008, 01:49
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I have a new offer from another AAA team. $1300 daily salary with a $15,000 signing bonus. From what I can see though, I would be the second string RB, which is not too tempting.
Lets figure out how we can get this working as a team. I think we are all willing to take a little less to play together, we just have to figure out where to go. Maybe an ideal solution is to have lower contracts and renegotiate better ones if the team starts to rake in extra cash?
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| 531 | dpr
ID: 1733917
Wed, Apr 23, 2008, 01:54
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yea i think we have established that we are all significantly underpaid.
For the long term success of our team i think that we need to be able train normal regularly as well as buy equipment when we get there. Personally I think for me this means a 1 year salary of about 900-1000/day and a 6-8k signing bonus which is still below market value.
The question is can we afford this? That about 45k per player and we have about 30 players i believe? so that means we need 1.35M in income this season. Again this is below the worst teams in the game so it has to be feasible. I read somewhere on the boards and posted earlier in this thread that a first year team can expect 2-3M a year in ticket revenue. I dont know the other expenses but if that is true then surely we can fund a 1.35M budget right?
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| 532 | JTSERB
Donor
ID: 481020120
Wed, Apr 23, 2008, 01:55
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I just accepted whatever offer there was so we can get this team together.. This was all about a rotoguru team for me. I want us all together to dominate! If the contracts are off every can restructure in the future. I don't think it is that big of a deal.
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| 533 | Doug
ID: 283451821
Wed, Apr 23, 2008, 01:55
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I'm gonna post to just to get a sense of what's out there. I think a lot of those owners are overpaying... I think the numbers Wiggs originally had in mind are underpaying.
I think I share the sentiment of many that I'm more than glad to take less salary than what I could make elsewhere to do this Gurupie style... BUT... the first pass at this was a bit too low and underestimated the amount of leveling we'll do during the season. I'll be very surprised if I don't go from level 4 to at least 8 or 9 during the season (not including boosts, which I'd do more towards the end, which would be +3 levels to at least 11 or 12). Unless we have "too many" players and we can't get XP well distributed... in which case we can adjust settings so that players come out at 70 and back in at 95 or something like that... so that (a) there's more rotation to 2nd/3rd stringers, and (b) we're not as exhausted and can train on normal rather than relaxed some of the time.
All that requires money. At the same time, the franchise needs money. But look at the examples above of teams that didn't even do that well, but how much they spent and still came out ahead.
We need to invest in our players so that we aren't hurting for cash or cutting back on training because of lack of it... but none of us want to bankrupt the franchise either.
Like I said, I'm gonna put a thread out there, but it's more just for "research" purposes... I'm not actually planning on taking a different contract. I'm sure we can work this out for everyone, and would encourage others not to jump the gun... but lets not dilly-dally with it either. Let's get it sorted out over the course of the day tomorrow. There's very good threads available on the forums for team finances that can help shed some light on what's feasible from that perspective.
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| 534 | Doug
ID: 283451821
Wed, Apr 23, 2008, 02:04
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Yikes... I was gonna check on things in morning... but my inbox filled with 50 messages within 5 minutes of my post.
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| 535 | Weykool
Leader
ID: 41750315
Wed, Apr 23, 2008, 02:13
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I never got an answer to my question about why we are not playing in AAA.
I wouldnt have the time to be the owner and have no problem giving my PW to whomever is going to figure this mess out and restore order to the universe.
Also,can I offer myself a contract with a huge signing bonus and then request a trade to the Guru team?
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| 536 | RebelFan
Sustainer
ID: 014833716
Wed, Apr 23, 2008, 02:41
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Hey Wiggs can you do me a favor, and post up what our Fan income levels are and any other info about our stadium that you as the owner are the only one with access to?
Thanks
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| 537 | Doug
ID: 283451821
Wed, Apr 23, 2008, 02:41
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My offers... many are 800-1000 per day... a few 1200-1400... and then a couple max offers 1854 per day. There are similarly a couple in the sub-800 per day range. Average offer is easily $1000 per day.
Signing bonuses most are ranging $2-10k with about $4-5k average. About 50/50 on 1-or-2-year contracts.
Worst offer is $2,000 signing bonus, $650 per day. That's out of 69 total offers.
Best offer is 1 year, $20,000 signing bonus, $1,300 per day.
Yikes, I don't know what I could possibly do in-game with that much money... there's not enough training or equipment to spend it on (unless I were a benchwarmer and just training "intense" all the time).
Overall I think I'd like to have minimum $30-35k total between signing bonus and salary for the season. That's about the minimum to purchase equipment ($12k) and train 50/50 normal/relaxed (when you take into account expected leveling up during the season)... and still have like $5k or so left over (possibly to bump up training to intense if we miss the playoffs). That seems a pretty fair baseline. Anything less and I'd basically be "forced" to only train on relaxed all season long.
As noted above, the vast majority of my offers are around $40-50k ($1k / day, $4-5k bonus), so it's not like I'm just going after the money... but anything less than $30-35 and I'd kind of feel like we're getting the short end of the stick (not intentionally mind you, just in the "whoops, we didn't balance our salaries properly, sorry guys, honest mistake" sense).
And if we have a team of say around 40 players total, and we were all level 4... at 30-35k I'd basically be suggesting $1.2-$1.4 million salary... which is actually below average of those posted in #389... all teams which were still able to end the season with cash on hand. Even the teams with $1.6-1.8 million salaries ended with cash on hand... so if you're only spending $1.2-$1.4 that means you could spend an extra $400k on franchise/stadium stuff than those other clubs (and still have cash left over).
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| 538 | Doug
ID: 283451821
Wed, Apr 23, 2008, 02:46
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Oh, and I don't care too much how the money is spread between bonus and salary... except that I would like to upgrade level 8 equipment which I expect to happen by mid-season or so... which is $10k expense. I don't necessarily need that as signing bonus, but if there's some way to give a "mid-season bonus" or whatever so that I can buy that gear when the time comes, hopefully the franchise will have better cash flow by then.
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| 540 | RebelFan
Sustainer
ID: 014833716
Wed, Apr 23, 2008, 06:07
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Ok, I think this one is big enough now, lets move salary discussion over to the other thread Salary discussion cont
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| 541 | sarge33rd
ID: 99331714
Wed, Apr 23, 2008, 12:26
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ahhhh someone showed me some "love"...contract offered and accepted. :)
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| 542 | sarge33rd
ID: 99331714
Wed, Apr 23, 2008, 12:58
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OK. bought some 'flex points' and lvled him up to 4.
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