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Subject: Authority Gone Awry
Posted by: Mith
- [3692387] Thu, Jan 22, 2015, 11:51
Discussions about abuses in law enforcement are scattered across numerous threads, including (surely among many others) the Michael Brown thread, the Trayvon Martin thread, the Immigration thread, the War on Drugs thread and the Direction of the GOP IV thread.
So hopefully this is a place where that topic can primarily reside.
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| 165 | biliruben
ID: 561162511
Mon, Mar 09, 2015, 12:15
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"Resisting and Obstructing". They should just hard-code it into the report template. He sees in a virtually any use of force case.
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| 166 | Bean
ID: 14147911
Mon, Mar 09, 2015, 12:24
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As to what happened to Chad afterward with "charges designed to fend off civil liability." I'll accept that a jury came to an appropriate conclusion.
There are two things I take away from this beyond some corrupt practices in Ft Bend and some out of control SWAT guys acting like out of control SWAT guys. 1) The motivation for coverup is CYA to protect your job and avoid financial responsibility. How soon will it be before cops have to have malpractice insurance, like the medical profession? What would be the tax implications of a lost police department lawsuit?2) Well meaning people who call the Police for help are often misguided and can be the catalyst for bigger problems than the one they seek to fix. Another case in point for that perspective is the Walmart shooting in Beavercreek OH.
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| 167 | biliruben
ID: 561162511
Mon, Mar 09, 2015, 12:32
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The main problem that people have is that they think cops are "Public Safety Officers", and that they will make a situation better.
That, unfortunately, isn't necessarily true.
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| 168 | Bean
ID: 14147911
Mon, Mar 09, 2015, 13:15
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bili,
I understand your frustration, and that of so many people who haven't figured out why we have cops. No matter what euphemism we like to apply to them, their primary function is LAW ENFORCEMENT.
When they are called to the scene, they instinctively look for someone who is willfully breaking the law and arrest or apply the appropriate citation. When on patrol they are looking for suspicious behavior and reminding criminals that they are being watched. This is where probable cause comes in.
If you are a law abiding citizen, you'll respect this and likely welcome it once you get past the inconvenience of being stopped. You will cooperate fully, respecting their authority and sacrifice. You will likely be treated fairly as a result.
If you are not a law abiding citizen, or you are simply a rebel, you will likely look at the cops as bad guys and seek to point out their flaws whenever you get the chance. Unscrupulous lawyers will no doubt help you in this endeavor. Anarchist authors of articles will fuel that fire as well.
There was a time in our history that an apology for making a mistake was enough. Even if it resulted in injury. Unfortunately we no longer live in that day. If a cop apologizes for his mistake, its an admission of guilt and he could easily be made to pay for that dearly. City governments would be made to pay for that as well, and that may be the motivation of legal counsel in some cases.
Nobody but the most naive thinks that any cop handles every situation exactly as it should be handled. We see ideal cops on TV, and think that all cops should be and are up to the task of being just like that guy.
Anyway, hindsight has a way of shining light on bad decisions in all human endeavors. More often than not, people are anxious to apologize for their mistakes and move on. Throw a lawyer into the equation and all perspective goes out the window.
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| 169 | Mith
ID: 231150292
Mon, Mar 09, 2015, 13:49
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I'll accept that a jury came to an appropriate conclusion.
Which jury would that be?
Are you talking about the grand Jury that acquitted him of two felony counts of assaulting a police officer?
Or are you talking about the trial jury that acquitted him of interfering with police, which was after the prosecutor was unable to get charges of resisting arrest to stick - despite testimony of 10 police officers against Chadwick?
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| 170 | Mith
ID: 231150292
Mon, Mar 09, 2015, 13:56
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If you are a law abiding citizen, you'll respect this and likely welcome it once you get past the inconvenience of being stopped. You will cooperate fully, respecting their authority and sacrifice. You will likely be treated fairly as a result.
I would suggest you tell that to the families of John Crawford, Aiyana Stanley-Jones, Marcus Jeter, Bounkham Phonesavanh, Yvette Smith and Najee Rivera? Just to name a few?
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| 171 | Bean
ID: 14147911
Mon, Mar 09, 2015, 14:14
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So much anger Mith, were you personally involved in these cases? Do you live in Ft Bend? In Indiana? Have relatives there? Why didn't Al Shaprton and Jessie Jackson show up in Ft Bend? Where's the protest march?
What is it you expect people to do once you get them all riled up about something that happened to someone they don't even know, in a town run by a mayor they didn't elect? It's a local problem that the people of Ft Bend need to address. They have the option of requesting the help of the DoJ. I don't think they need to worry about the DoJ tazing them if called.
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| 172 | Seattle Zen
ID: 301361318
Mon, Mar 09, 2015, 14:17
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There was a time in our history that an apology for making a mistake was enough. Even if it resulted in injury. Unfortunately we no longer live in that day.
Bean, how in the hell could you believe that an apology is all that is necessary from the police in the case MITH posted in 162?
I could see some people arguing that the officers and the prosecutor should only be fired while others urge criminal charges be brought. Payment for damages is a given.
Don't you believe in holding people accountable for their actions, Bean? Cop apologists often believe that only some people need be held to that standard.
If cops need only apologize, not only will the stories like 162 happen more frequently, they won't even be newsworthy and few people will ever hear them.
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| 173 | Seattle Zen
ID: 301361318
Mon, Mar 09, 2015, 14:25
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It's a local problem that the people of Ft Bend need to address.
Well, at least you labeled it a "problem", Bean, I guess that's progress.
Do you realize that this was the response from the majority of the nation 50 years ago regarding racial segregation? Though, it was called "a local issue", not a problem. If the poor, black people of X want to address this issue, they can petition, vote, etc...
That seems to be your stock response to everything, Bean. We've heard it all before.
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| 174 | Bean
ID: 14147911
Mon, Mar 09, 2015, 15:32
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S Z,
I was alive 50 years ago, my pastor was actively involved in the civil rights movement, my church was integrated. I recall putting flyers for Carl Stokes in doors during his campaign for Mayor.
My family members were vocal spokesmen for Civil Rights in the White community. My older brother was student council president in the city's only magnet trade school with high school boys across the city immediately after the Hough riots. But when busing closed all of the neighborhood schools, and there weren't enough white kids left to spread across the city, my sister converted to catholicism so her kids wouldn't get bused, and was quickly invited to become a deacon in the congregation.
I had a friend who lost her brother in the Kent State shootings, and many friends who lost their brothers in Viet Nam. I had four uncles and several cousins, who were deployed to Viet Nam, three of which came back with Purple Hearts. So, yes, I protested our involvement in Viet Nam until its end, despite the objection of my mother's brothers. My family has had a long history of service, but I could not abide that war. I didn't join the Air Force until I was 28.
After graduation from college I campaigned for Dennis Kucinich for Mayor of Cleveland, and worked in his administration in the City's department that administered the CETA program. So, I think, its a safe bet that my politics aren't those of a right wing a$$hole, and I am guessing that my resume of civil unrest eclipses most on this forum.
Yes, I understand the lyrics of Neil Young's "Southern Man" and Lynryd Skynrd's response in "Alabama". For what it's worth, I also remember some lyrics of a Buffalo SPringfield song that were something like "stop children what's that sound, everybody look whats going down". So I doubt you have much wisdom to impart to me in these areas, but I am open to learning new things or even being reminded of ideas lost to time.
Most of the system of checks and balances for police authority were put in to place during these times. Some would like you to not be aware of them. Others would prefer to start public protests, even before they allow this system to do its job. Still others would incite people to resist authority before it is a danger, often unwittingly.
Check out that Buffalo Springfield song.
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| 175 | Bean
ID: 14147911
Mon, Mar 09, 2015, 17:13
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<172> Don't you believe in holding people accountable for their actions, Bean?
Absolutely I do. I am not privy to how this thing was reported that would warrant a SWAT response, but I am guessing the picture painted for the PD was one of need for a SWAT response. What accountability is there for the escalated call for help is there?
How about the accountability for the person who called in the cops in Beavercreek? what accountability for the violence and looting that Al Sharpton and others inspired in the aftermath of Ferguson?
Yes, I am all in when it comes to accountability, and I am all in when it comes to having a fair system of judging who should be accountable and for what. I am also all in for allowing local governments to govern themselves and for their people to participate in their own government.
I'm all in for truth justice and the American way. I also believe in forgiveness and salvation and all of those nice things too. Vote for me and I'll set you free, there will be two chickens in every pot!
Then there is practical fiscal reality, lawsuits, differences of opinion, busy bodies and necessary social order etc. that just seem to get in the way of ideals.
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| 176 | Mith
ID: 231150292
Mon, Mar 09, 2015, 17:55
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From the linked article:A SWAT team was summoned.
"They told a judge I had hostages. They lied to a judge and told him I had hostages in my apartment and they needed to enter," said Chadwick.
Chadwick did own a single shotgun, but had threatened no one, not even himself. Chadwick's firearm possession apparently prompted SWAT to kick in his door, launch a stun grenade into the bathroom and storm in, according to Chadwick, without announcing their identity.
"While I had my hands up naked in the shower they shot me with a 40 millimeter non-lethal round," said Chadwick.
A second stun grenade soon followed.
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| 177 | Bean
ID: 14147911
Mon, Mar 09, 2015, 17:58
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From the article concerning why a SWAT team was summoned and why the SWAT team thought there were hostages:
"0"
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| 178 | Mith
ID: 231150292
Mon, Mar 09, 2015, 18:18
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I am guessing the picture painted for the PD was one of need for a SWAT response
See the story of Kenneth Chamberlain in post 16.
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| 179 | Bean
ID: 14147911
Mon, Mar 09, 2015, 18:41
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Mith, if its your intent to shock people about what can happen if a police department is allowed to get out of control and is helped by their local justice system in a cover up, then this article surely paints that picture well despite the lack of details. A jury decided, and I said earlier I accept the jury's decision, and assume those of Ft Bend do as well. How things will play out from here is for the people of Ft. Bend to decide, not some guys on a rotoguru forum..
However, extrapolating this one case to a growing concern for cops busting down any door any time for any reason anywhere in the country and beating people silly for no reason what so ever is a pill that nobody should be swallowing.
I know your goal is to enlighten all the world to the possibility that the sky may be falling, not just in Texas, but elsewhere too (my apologies to those in South Bend, IN for thinking this happened there). I hope that's not true, but if we close our eyes and say "all cops suck" 10 times like we really mean it, we CAN make it come true.
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| 180 | Mith
ID: 231150292
Mon, Mar 09, 2015, 19:19
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extrapolating this one case to a growing concern for cops busting down any door any time for any reason anywhere in the country and beating people silly for no reason what so ever
Nope, that's not quite right...
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| 181 | Boldwin
ID: 49250121
Mon, Mar 09, 2015, 20:06
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That was one amazing post, that #174.
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| 182 | sarge33rd
ID: 390471112
Tue, Mar 17, 2015, 00:17
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BODY CAM FOOTAGE SHOWS POLICE EXECUTING MENTALLY ILL MAN WITH SCREWDRIVER
can we PLEASE stop defending this bullshit and START prosecuting for criminal murder? MAYBE, that will send the requisite message and start to put a stop to this bullshit.
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| 183 | Boldwin
ID: 49250121
Thu, Mar 19, 2015, 16:37
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"The most frightening sentence in the english language" - Ronald Reagan
"Hi, I'm from the government and I'm here to help..."He is a 57 year old disabled veteran with NO prior criminal record. In the video on his Facebook page you will see the result of an 18 hour siege by Nassau and Jacksonville SWAT teams. Why were they there? His ex-girlfriend claimed from Kentucky that he was suicidal. Nassau responded and he told them he was fine. They asked him to come out and he had the gall to exercise his constitutional rights and say NO. They had no reason to stay, but they did. When he still wouldn't come out (The police admit that he had an absolute right not to come out) they called in the "pros from Dover" the SWAT team from JSO. JSO showed up with their 4 semis full of equipment and 18 men. They too agree that he had committed no crime, but they too insisted he come out. They evacuated the Campground in whites motorhome had been parked for 6 years and blared sirens all night in an attempt to get him to come out.
By this time Mr. Desmond was scared to death to come out as he had read and heard about the JSO policy of "shoot first and ask questions later". Ultimately, they knocked a hole in the side of his motorhome supposedly to put in a phone to talk with him. They had cut off his electricity and his cellphone had died. Why they just could't have put the phone on his steps rather than knocking a 2 foot square hole in the side of the motorhome still baffles me.
The operator of the CIV that knocked the hole lied and said that Mr. Desmond pointed a gun"in his direction" and despite the fact he was behind 2 inches of solid steel and bulletproof glass, he was afraid.
They then went and got a warrant for his arrest for "Aggravated Assault on a Police Officer" It is interesting that despite the fact that 4 snipers with high powered rifles and scopes and 8 other officers in close proximity looking through the windshield and side windows, NO OTHER OFFICER saw Mr. Desmond point a gun in anyone's direction. But, they had to allege that Mr. Desmond had committed a crime in order to force him out.
Well, they got the warrant based on a lie and returned and decided to gas him out. On the door to Mr. Desmond's Motorhome was a sign that said "No smoking Oxygen in use." You see, Mr. Desmond suffers from COPD which is a serious condition that makes it difficult for him to breathe,. His neighbor, who took the video of the barbaric way they "took him down" had told them of his condition. Obviously, they didn't care.
Instead of putting the tear gas in the hole they had already knocked in the side of the motorhome, they knocked out another window and gassed him. The video is when he comes out, helpless and gasping for air. But, he was such a danger that they shot him twice with the 40 caliber gun with the "sponge round" He still has scars from the so-called "sponge rounds". If that wasn't enough they immediately based him. I can hear his screams in my dreams.
So, based on the actions of NCSO and especially JSO Swat, Mr. Desmond has been in jail with a $100,000.00 bond for a crime he did not commit. He has lost everything. His motorhome is ruined. Social Security has cut off his benefits while he is in jail awaiting trial. He is dead broke and even after I prove hi to be innocent at trial (God willing) he has nothing.
To make matters worse, he had just had all but 4 of his teeth pulled and was scheduled to get fitted for dentures the week after his arrest. The boom of the CIV hit him in the mouth after it came through the side of his motorhome and knocked out 3 of the 4 teeth he had left. He has been in jail for nearly a year with only one tooth his head. Nassau County would not even take him to get the dentures had already paid for. Can you imagine not having any teeth to eat with. Keep in mind, Nassau County has not provided him with a special diet due to not having but one tooth. Oh no, he only gets the "delicious" food everyone else gets.
How much do I believe in William Desmond? I am defending him for free. A word most lawyers, including myself, almost never use. I have actually spent a couple of thousand dollars out of my own pocket on transcript, subpoenas, investigator, photographs, etc.
Please share Mr. Desmond's story, after all, but for the grace of God this could happen to any of us. If any of you are in the vicinity of the Nassau County jail and you can find it in your heart, put a little money into his commissary account. It just might help him pass the remaining 60 days until his trial.
His trial is now scheduled for March 15, 2015. Ironically, that is the one year anniversary of his brutal and wrongful arrest.If you are interested in attending an interesting trial and lending moral support to a really nice man, the trial will be at the Yulee courthouse n/k/a the Robert M. Foster Justice Center near the FSJC campus off of SR 200 just off of I-95 near Yulee.
Please, if you can't do anything else, please keep William "Willie" Desmond in your prayers. Willie is a religious man, however, he is having difficulty in seeing God's plan in all of this.
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| 184 | Boldwin
ID: 49250121
Thu, Mar 19, 2015, 16:39
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Of course the police always get believed and the jury convicted him of aggravated assault on the lying POS police officers covering their @ss by lying about the gun pointed at them.
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| 185 | Boldwin
ID: 49250121
Thu, Mar 19, 2015, 16:42
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And of course you have a 'right to a fair trial' but the jury isn't allowed to see the video of what the Nassau nazis did to him and the lack of any assault against the police.
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| 186 | biliruben
ID: 561162511
Thu, Mar 19, 2015, 17:41
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If teabaggers championed the worst public-employee unions - police unions, then they might get my vote.
The silence and hypocrisy surrounding police unions is deafening.
Teachers are weak, red meat.
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| 187 | biliruben
ID: 561162511
Thu, Mar 19, 2015, 17:42
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Championed regulating or eliminating them, I mean.
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| 188 | Boldwin
ID: 49250121
Thu, Mar 19, 2015, 22:46
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I'm not in favor of any 'public sector' unions. They should be illegal.
I understand the political calculus that keeps anyone from attacking that particular union. The art of the possible.
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| 194 | Khahan
ID: 54152322
Thu, Mar 26, 2015, 21:38
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Officer Trevor Casper just 21 years old and 2 months out of the academy murdered by armed violent felon during robbery call.
San Jose, Ca officer Michael Johnson shot dead on the scene by man he went to help.
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| 195 | Mith
ID: 231150292
Fri, Mar 27, 2015, 20:25
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Those are tragedies, not cases of authority gone awry.
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| 196 | Mith
ID: 231150292
Fri, Mar 27, 2015, 20:26
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Unless you are saying misconduct led to their deaths. But that doesn't seem likely.
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| 216 | sarge33rd
ID: 390471112
Sat, Jun 20, 2015, 22:13
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dont flag down a passing patrol car in LA. You get to be dead.
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| 217 | Boldwin
ID: 49572022
Wed, Aug 12, 2015, 16:32
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DOJ prosecuted Eugene Oregon for not hiring illegals as police officers". Fined $3000 & now must be "monitored".
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| 218 | biliruben
ID: 28420307
Fri, Aug 14, 2015, 08:29
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Can you stop spewing horseshit? Nevermind. I know the answer.
"The behavior violated the U.S. Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965, which bars employers from limiting work to U.S. citizens except where the employer is required to do so by law, regulation, executive order or government contract."
It doesn't say they can hire undocumented workers. I swear, you fall for this shit hook line and sinker.
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| 219 | Boldwin
ID: 49572022
Fri, Aug 14, 2015, 21:34
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An investigation found that from July 2013 through February 2015 Eugene asked police officer job applicants about their citizenship status, intending to exclude non-U.S. citizens at the time of hire, the Justice Department said.
You are OK with this.
Naturally.
But you never believe me when I tell you Illegals will get every benefit they are legally disallowed from because we are legally barred from asking if they are illegals.
Forked tongue because you know it's true. And OK with it.
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| 220 | Bean
ID: 14147911
Sat, Aug 15, 2015, 11:10
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If, in fact, there is a law that prohibits the asking for ID of ANY prospective employee, then there is something terribly wrong with the law.
If a green card holder is not required to register for the draft, but receives all benefits that a citizen gets....you're OK with that?
Sorry, I cannot get my head around that in any fashion. Perhaps we need to revisit the basic concepts of a nation, citizenship and inherent rights/responsibilities before we continue to try to treat all humans equally. What is a pledge of allegiance anyway?
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| 221 | biliruben
ID: 28420307
Sun, Aug 16, 2015, 04:33
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Lessee.
50 year old law.
No evidence that any undocumented immigrant has ever been hired as a police officer (or the frothing racists would have found it by now).
Sounds like something is "terribly wrong". An epidemic.
Sounds like you should get in line to give Trump a hand job. He's your man.
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| 222 | Boldwin
ID: 2711516
Sun, Aug 16, 2015, 05:15
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Until an anti-American president instructed his anti-American head of the DOJ to enforce that stupid interpretation, no one ever thot to FORCE them to do so.
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| 223 | Boldwin
ID: 2711516
Sun, Aug 16, 2015, 05:26
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And no, I am thinking a Cruz/Fiorina ticket is the winning ticket and the rest aren't even close.
Does Trump tempt?
As a matter of fact it's tempting to think he at least means it when he says he'll give us a border. It's tempting to think that just maybe no one else can breach the impenetrable wall built of Dems importing votes and Chamber of Commerce exporting our future.
Everyone else is angling for CoC campaign donations if they can just finesse a position between them and the base. While Trump doesn't need their money.
Trump can make an empty promise too tho.
Trump can run into the impenetrable wall in congress, shrug and give up.
Meanwhile we don't get conservative SCOTUS judges, we get a Planned Parenthood friendly president. We get someone who actually enjoys Hillary's social company. We get a president who believes in single payer socialized medicine...
That's too much baggage for me...just to buy a convincing promise of a border.
But the border is issue #1, so it is tempting. If the majority voters eventually vote Somali and 'People's Republic of Mexico' it's over.
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| 224 | Bean
ID: 14147911
Mon, Aug 17, 2015, 00:44
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bili,
Unlike Trump, I have no animosity toward any Mexicans, most I have met are great people. For me its simply an issue of when push comes to shove, whose side of the Trump fence are they going to line up on?
When the US plays Mexico in a soccer match, who are they rooting for?
Do they celebrate 4th of July or Cinco de Maio?
Seems pretty basic my friend. Perhaps you should become an American citizen too.
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| 225 | biliruben
ID: 28420307
Mon, Aug 17, 2015, 06:40
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"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore."
I guess it depends on what America you prefer to live in. A jingoistic, hateful place, with pledges, hate and 20 foot razor wire, with drones and high-caliber weaponry. Cowering and fearful of the different. Growing old, frail, fragile, pathetic, behind high walls.
Or the welcoming place that opened it's arms to my ancestors, and brought in the people to make it great.
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| 226 | Bean
ID: 14147911
Mon, Aug 17, 2015, 10:13
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Just as a history refresher, the statue of liberty and any associated quotations are not of American origin. It was a gift from France, some call it a Trojan Horse.
Most people whose families have been here for more than a couple generations appreciate that a controlled immigration strategy is essential to maintain our sovereignty. If that concept is foreign to you, perhaps its because you are from another land.
The last of my ancestors to come to this country came in the 18th century, and although we appreciate the help of immigrants in settling the land, we also do not need too many people here to share it with. That my friend is Americanism, you would do well to embrace it.
As to which America I prefer, the one my family and I have defended for countless generations is fine by me.
The only reason we are having this discussion is because we are a nation in crisis due to uncontrolled illegal immigration. The Mexican and Central American people have long ignored the dangers of a lack of a population control policy. As a result their populations are bursting at the seams and they seek to remedy it through immigration to our country. They used to control their population by use of human sacrifice back in the Mayan days. Glad they abandoned that after the Spanish Invasion.
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| 227 | weykool
ID: 472331022
Mon, Aug 17, 2015, 10:17
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The only hate is being spewed from the left. Falsely accusing people of racism just to foment hatred and distrust. To me that is the very essence of bigotry.
Did your ancestors come here legally or illegally?
If your ancestor were applying for citizenship today it is likely they would be turned away due to number of the illegals cutting in line before them.
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| 228 | Boldwin
ID: 2711516
Mon, Aug 17, 2015, 12:19
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When you have to import a new set of voters because you hate the way the original citizens used to vote you've just identified who hates America and Americans.
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| 229 | biliruben
ID: 28420307
Mon, Aug 17, 2015, 15:37
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One of my Great-grandmother's on my father's side was a child-bride sold into marriage to one of your "true Americans" from Syria. If she hadn't been kidnapped, you wouldn't nearly as good lasers to shoot down incoming missiles.
My Great-grandmother on my mother's side, a true American (Comanche), was kidnapped and married-off to one of our faux-American Texans in the mid-1800s.
Her brother in law shot probably 20 black men in the back.
I know all about what your "True Americans" do. My family history is all I have to look back to to figure that out.
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| 230 | Boldwin
ID: 2711516
Mon, Aug 17, 2015, 17:31
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Funny how our backstories define us.
I got backtaxed and penalized into oblivion after one unexpectedly bad year in business.
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| 231 | Tree
ID: 161036918
Mon, Aug 17, 2015, 22:04
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funny how quick you are to blame others for your own failures, yet you implore people to be responsible for their own actions.
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| 232 | Bean
ID: 14147911
Tue, Aug 18, 2015, 10:17
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229
bili,
You needn't turn your self loathing into a welcome mat. The guilt associated with past sins you didn't commit is no reason to give everyone's inheritance away. If it was just yours, nobody would care. But its our shared inheritance. Respect the borders.
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| 233 | Boldwin
ID: 2711516
Tue, Aug 18, 2015, 11:32
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Tree
The whole point of socialism is to make it impossible to be an independent individual and reduce them to serfs dependent on the collective.
Thus every impediment to prosperity is put forward by those who would be our masters.
They've already got half the populace reduced to clinging to and voting for socialist lifelines...
...provisions they wouldn't need had they not been impoverished by paying for the ball and chain of big failed centralized government.
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| 234 | biliruben
ID: 137281811
Tue, Aug 18, 2015, 13:49
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I have zero self-loathing. I'm simply clear-eyed about the dubiousness idea of American exceptionalism. My stories and family history contain numerous examples of those already living here being morally, intellectually and looking economic productivity-measures, inferior to those who came from outside the United States.
I also have numerous examples where that isn't true: My father, the pilot in the Air Force who went on to make vast contributions to our military capabilities, my namesake grandfather, a Colonel, who served in WWII and made was career Army. My cousin, also career military, who proudly walked his daughter down the aisle to be married at West Point cadet's chapel this Sunday. Our family is a vast network of high-achieving entrepreneurs, very successful businessmen and academics that I'm very proud of. There are also deadbeats, but that's the nature of family.
I was simply responding to your "history lesson", and saying that your definition of "American" is complete and utter bullshit. True Americans can come from any walk of life and also any part of the globe. Just because your great, great, great grand nana came over on the Mayflower doesn't give you a right to suggest you know more about what a true American is, or how to defend it, or most importantly how to make sure our country continues to be great.
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| 235 | Bean
ID: 14147911
Tue, Aug 18, 2015, 18:17
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One man ..... one vote
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| 236 | Boldwin
ID: 2711516
Tue, Aug 18, 2015, 18:29
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If you still vote Institutional Revolutionary Party (Partido Revolucionario Institucional, PRI) when you come here, so that you can turn America into the hellhole you escaped from you may be from North America but you are not American.
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| 237 | biliruben
ID: 105572020
Wed, Aug 19, 2015, 13:33
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Uh, yeah. One man one vote.
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| 238 | Khahan
ID: 177581914
Wed, Aug 19, 2015, 15:58
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True Americans can come from any walk of life and also any part of the globe
I agree with this 100%. But I also believe there is another part - legal American citizenship is a thing. It is important and should be respected. I have absolutely zero beef with anybody who wants to come to America from any land and become a legal citizen, apply for a green card, get a visa etc.
My beef is with people sneaking across the boarder taking jobs in America from Americans, taking that paycheck and money and sending it to their family in another country, using our medical/healthcare systems, benefiting from the taxes of legal citizens and now pushing for other rights without taking the steps to do things properly.
Work with the system, don't circumvent it. And if the system makes it difficult - well maybe there is a reason there are a few hoops to jump thru.
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Post a reply to this message: Authority Gone Awry
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